Q900 bipamped with a denon 4311? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 04-26-2013, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a denon 4311ci that I'll be running 5.1 and an additional 2ch zone.

I'll have 2 unused channels I can assign as biamp to the KEF Q900s. I understand how bipamping works but I've read where some people say its worth it and others say its not.

I will not be adding an amps any time soon. The room is fairly large.

I have
Q900 fronts
Q600 center
Infinity rs4(will be replaced with q300) surrounds
Infinity sub(will be replaced with fv15hp)

In my setup do you think I should do it? I personally can't see any reason why I shouldn't, but there are many people out there that know more on this subject than me.
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post #2 of 14 Old 04-26-2013, 01:26 PM
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It has never been a benefit for me with different receivers (including a 4311) and different speakers but it'll only cost you a couple of runs of wire to decide for yourself. Hearing is believing.


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post #3 of 14 Old 04-26-2013, 01:36 PM
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And bi-amping is also bi-wiring, so maybe you'll get those benefits, too. wink.gif

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post #4 of 14 Old 04-26-2013, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kvwpwr View Post


I'll have 2 unused channels I can assign as biamp to the KEF Q900s. I understand how bipamping works but I've read where some people say its worth it and others say its not.
.
Bi-amping is when you have an electronic crossover that splits the high and low frequencies, sending them to separate amplifiers, which each feed the woofer and tweeter directly and independently, with no passive crossover. The result is lowered distortion and it can be a significant improvement.
So-called 'passive bi-amping' does not use an electronic crossover, so both amps receive the same signal and both send the same signal to the speaker, where passive crossovers are still employed. It does nothing. IMO no engineer worth his salt would recommend it, and its only value is as a marketing tool.

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post #5 of 14 Old 04-26-2013, 05:46 PM
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The Denon 4311 produces enough power into 2 channels (170 watts x 2) that you won't be able to tell the difference in bi-amping.
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post #6 of 14 Old 10-10-2013, 03:43 PM
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So you are saying that if your speakers have a cross over you can effectively bi-amp/bi-wire your speakers properly and they should have an overall improvement?
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post #7 of 14 Old 10-10-2013, 03:49 PM
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So you are saying that if your speakers have a cross over you can effectively bi-amp/bi-wire your speakers properly and they should have an overall improvement?

Speakers have a cross over. The issue is that most AVR have passive bi-mapping, which doesn't do anything.

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post #8 of 14 Old 10-10-2013, 03:52 PM
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So if I am running a pioneer SC67 and KEF Q900 which have the electric switch, because I have an AVR and not a dedicated amp, its going to do nothing?.... damn I am really trying to get the best out of these speakers!!!
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post #9 of 14 Old 10-10-2013, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jer181 View Post

So if I am running a pioneer SC67 and KEF Q900 which have the electric switch, because I have an AVR and not a dedicated amp, its going to do nothing?.... damn I am really trying to get the best out of these speakers!!!

Pretty much. You will need and external amplifier with double or triple the power of your current AVR

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post #10 of 14 Old 10-11-2013, 06:07 AM
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So you are saying that if your speakers have a cross over you can effectively bi-amp/bi-wire your speakers properly and they should have an overall improvement?
If your speakers have a crossover you cannot bi-amp, and there will be no improvement whatsoever. If you do not have an electronic crossover you cannot bi-amp, and there will be no improvement whatsoever.

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post #11 of 14 Old 10-11-2013, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by kvwpwr View Post

I understand how bipamping works but I've read where some people say its worth it and others say its not.

Theoretically, from an engineering perspective, even passive bi-amp helps.

But in reality, it doesn't really help at all. biggrin.gif

So I would not mess with that.
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post #12 of 14 Old 10-11-2013, 09:09 AM
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Theoretically, from an engineering perspective, even passive bi-amp helps.
From an engineering perspective there's no difference. The voltage swing is identical, so there's no increase in volume. Current delivery is limited by the capacity of the power supply, and that's unaltered. THD, S/N, IMD, all those factors that are improved with true active bi-amping are not improved upon with passive bi-amping. It's a sales tool, and nothing more.

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post #13 of 14 Old 10-11-2013, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

From an engineering perspective there's no difference. The voltage swing is identical, so there's no increase in volume. Current delivery is limited by the capacity of the power supply, and that's unaltered. THD, S/N, IMD, all those factors that are improved with true active bi-amping are not improved upon with passive bi-amping. It's a sales tool, and nothing more.

I assume you graduated with an electrical engineering degree from an accredited university and have a Professional Engineer license?

But you must realize that you are not the ONLY engineer in this world with an opinion?

There are other real professional electrical engineers out there in the world who share that perspective.

I don't believe in passive bi-amp at all, so it's not my perspective. I am not even an engineer, so I was just relaying their sentiments.

From some Professional Electrical Engineers' perspective (those who have graduated with honors from universities, those who also think they are pretty smart), passive bi-amp THEORETICALLY has merits.

But realistically, it offers no benefits, which is where I stand.
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post #14 of 14 Old 10-11-2013, 02:41 PM
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I assume you graduated with an electrical engineering degree from an accredited university and have a Professional Engineer license?
EEs don't necessarily know more than the average layman with respect to sound reproduction gear, depending on what courses they took. My Masters is in Acoustical Engineering, which specializes in it.

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