Looking for some advice for a non audiophile - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 36 Old 04-26-2013, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
mat82284's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 264
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Currently I'm running a a 5.1 Jamo set (on amazon for $180) I bought them for $100 from frys a few years ago and have been great for me ever since. I recently decided to upgrade my receiver and jumped on the Pioneer sc-1522-k at costco for $600. I needed a receiver with dual out hdmi ports since i have my home theater in my living room. The room is quite big if i had to guess id say its 20x25 feet or around 20x22 feet. I've always been into quality and because of that i tend to buy things little by little instead of all at once (because of cost).

I'm currently running a projector (epson 5020ub) to a 150" screen that comes down from the ceiling, and my main tv is a 60" that is used 95% of the time. I use the projector on occasions when i'm looking for the full movie experience. After purchasing the receiver i decided that i should upgrade my speakers as well. I've read many posts, and found many speakers that ive never even heard of. I'm not an Audiophile, but i do like quality and i want something kinda mid range, between audiophile, and bugget.

I found a set of used Kef q700's for around $800, which seem good, but i feel like there probably more than i really need. I havnt noticed anyone really talk about JBL lately. Is there a reason for that? I was originally looking at buying the a set of JBL L890, and a center JBL LC2 for around $1200. Are the Kef's better? Are there other speaker sets better for the price?

I don't really have a bugget, but I'd prefer to stay at $2k or less. I'm mostly looking for a set of fronts, and a center. I was going to use my current Jamo fronts for the rear speakers for now. That is until i get another urge to upgrade.

As for what i'd use them for, I'd say 70% Music, and 30% television (movies and just tv). I'm also using a psw505 sub. Would you recommend the JBL set, or should i look at the kef's or something different? I'm not looking to power the speakers with external amps, just with my receiver.

Thanks for any advice anyone may give.

Links to My current setup

http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-12-Inch-Powered-Subwoofer/dp/B000092TT0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367009532&sr=8-1&keywords=12+sub+polk

http://www.amazon.com/Jamo-426-HCS-WENGE-5-Piece/dp/B003GGXGU6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367009590&sr=8-1&keywords=jamo

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SC-1522-K-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B0083C8AWW/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1367009607&sr=1-1&keywords=sc-1522-k


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mat82284 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 36 Old 04-26-2013, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
mat82284's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 264
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I also just noticed that frys is doing a sale on polk audio. Is this just as good as the jbl or worse?

http://www.frys.com/product/6895346?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mat82284 is offline  
post #3 of 36 Old 04-26-2013, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
mat82284's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 264
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Never mind about polk. Frys is doing there typical bait and switch tactics and thats why i never buy from them. Looked online, said in stock. Went to store, and the rep said, "we don't have them stock in stock and only had 2 clearance ones that were on display and we sold sold them to an employee this morning." This happened to me 2 years ago, and i've never walked through there doors again. Then i gave them another try and boom, same crap. I'd rather give my money to companies that deserve it than a rip off company like frys. The employee said that they do this all the time to get people into the door. That is exactly the same as bait and switch, but there getting away with it by calling it a clearance and no more stock will ever arrive and you cant buy it online. I'll never support companies like this EVER.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mat82284 is offline  
post #4 of 36 Old 04-26-2013, 05:13 PM
Senior Member
 
Petden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 33
The kefs are pretty good. I ahvent heard those specific JBL speakers though so Im not sure how good they sound. Next question is why towers? Do you like to run your towers full range or are you using the sub during music. If you use the sub you dont need big towers. Towers usually have better bass reproduction however a good sub with good bookshelves might be a better fit. That room is quite large so the next question is how far back do you sit and how loud do you like to listen to music/movies.
Petden is offline  
post #5 of 36 Old 04-26-2013, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
mat82284's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 264
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petden View Post

The kefs are pretty good. I ahvent heard those specific JBL speakers though so Im not sure how good they sound. Next question is why towers? Do you like to run your towers full range or are you using the sub during music. If you use the sub you dont need big towers. Towers usually have better bass reproduction however a good sub with good bookshelves might be a better fit. That room is quite large so the next question is how far back do you sit and how loud do you like to listen to music/movies.

I really dont have anywhere to put the bookshelf speakers which is why ive been looking at the towers. The towers are nice since they fit perfectly next to my tv.

I probably wouldn't mind a set of bookshelf speakers if they sound just as good. I like a lot of mid range bass and i just feel like the sub lacks in that department, as for movies would a tower be better or would bookshelf speakers be just as good? My current setup feels a little weak, and seems to loose its clarity when turning it up high. I like to listen to my music loud and watch movies loud and thats probably why i want some mid bass. I used to be a car audio audiophile, but that was years ago. I do love loud bass and since my room is so big i noticed that the bass is stronger in some areas than others. I've been thinking about getting another sub.

Maybe another sub, with a good set of towers/bookshelf speakers might do the trick.

As for the room size, its pretty large, but thats because it includes my dining area. Its wide open, but not an area i consider part of my living room, but when it comes to audio i know audio doesn't stay in the area i prefer it to. The couches are about 11-12 feet from the Television/projector screen.

Any recommended bookshelf speakers? What about stands for them?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mat82284 is offline  
post #6 of 36 Old 04-26-2013, 07:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,842
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 722 Post(s)
Liked: 417
How about this well regarded speaker set? Increase your budget by a little bit (relatively speaking in this hobby) and you get a heck of a lot more.

All at Ascend Acoustics.com

CMT-340 SE (fronts)
CMT-340 SE (center)
HTM-200 SE (side and back surrounds)
TP-24 fillable pedestal stands for CMT-340 fronts

Rythmik FV15HP (black oak) 15" vented subwoofer w/600 watt amp

(You get a discount on Rythmik subs when purchased with Ascend speakers).

$2,618 + shipping.

You will die a happy, happy man. Well worth the extra money and you'd have a killer sub to fill that large open space.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #7 of 36 Old 04-26-2013, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
mat82284's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 264
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

How about this well regarded speaker set? Increase your budget by a little bit (relatively speaking in this hobby) and you get a heck of a lot more.

All at Ascend Acoustics.com

CMT-340 SE (fronts)
CMT-340 SE (center)
HTM-200 SE (side and back surrounds)
TP-24 fillable pedestal stands for CMT-340 fronts

Rythmik FV15HP (black oak) 15" vented subwoofer w/600 watt amp

(You get a discount on Rythmik subs when purchased with Ascend speakers).

$2,618 + shipping.

You will die a happy, happy man. Well worth the extra money and you'd have a killer sub to fill that large open space.

$2600 isn't that bad.

I took a look at that setup and it looks pretty good, but what about comparing them to the JBL's L890 or JBL L820? I've owned JBL products so i have an idea of there customer service/warranty. How is the Ascends warranty/customer service? Do you have to pay for shipping for warranty work?

That 15" sounds like a good deal, but im wondering if its a little overkill. Im currently running the polk audio 505 12" sub and its just a tad off on the bass that i want, but to fix that i was going to just get a second one. I figured 2 of them should be just as good as a big 15".

I'll have to check and see if maybe there is a way to checkout that set locally. I really wish i could hear some of this stuff before order. Which is one reason i was looking at amazon, for easy free shipping/return shipping (prime).


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mat82284 is offline  
post #8 of 36 Old 04-26-2013, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
mat82284's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 264
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
After checking the price for everything its more like $1,232.56 using b-stock items (I dont care about small blemishes lol.) and $2,442 if i wanted the sub. for a 7.1 setup

The jbl setup, would cost me 2,056.05 with 3 sets of the JBL L820 (6 speakers total) and one JBL LC2 center on amazon, but can be cheaper if i wait for amazon to put it on sale again. JBL is much more expensive, but the the biggest reason I'm leaning towards them now is the small profile box that seems to hug the the wall pretty well.

I wont be ordering anything for at least a week or two since i'll be in hawaii for a full week next week so that will give me time to decide.

Question for anyone using ascend speakers. How easy are they to mount on the wall?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mat82284 is offline  
post #9 of 36 Old 04-26-2013, 09:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
shadyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,635
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 191 Post(s)
Liked: 520
Ascend CMT340s will not be that easy to mount on the wall, they are going to be fairly top heavy. You would want to place them on a shelf probably. The CBM170s, on the other hand, would be easy to mount with something like these Videosecu side-clamping mounts. JBLs are pretty meh until you work your way up to the higher end studio line, the 570, 580, and 590. JBL's pro stuff is great though.

By the way, you will definitely want to upgrade your sub. Look at Rythmik, Hsu, or Power Sound Audio subs.
shadyJ is offline  
post #10 of 36 Old 04-26-2013, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
mat82284's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 264
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Ascend CMT340s will not be that easy to mount on the wall, they are going to be fairly top heavy. You would want to place them on a shelf probably. The CBM170s, on the other hand, would be easy to mount with something like these Videosecu side-clamping mounts. JBLs are pretty meh until you work your way up to the higher end studio line, the 570, 580, and 590. JBL's pro stuff is great though.

By the way, you will definitely want to upgrade your sub. Look at Rythmik, Hsu, or Power Sound Audio subs.

I thought the Studio L series is better than the Studio 5 series?? According to there page they stats look better?

As for the rears thats a good mount for them. I'll keep them in mind if i get that set. I forgot to mention that i dont plan to mount the front cmt 340's or center. It was the 4 rears that i was thinking about.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mat82284 is offline  
post #11 of 36 Old 04-26-2013, 10:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,842
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 722 Post(s)
Liked: 417
The Ascend HTM-200's are easy to mount on the wall for surround duties. They have spaced screws for Omni swivel brackets (makes them easier to aim). Just ask Ascend which model and they'll steer you in the right direction. I included the stands for the front stereo pair of CMT-340's in the package I put together.

That system I mentioned above will cream those particular JBL's. Unfortunately, like Klipsch, JBL just isn't as good any more until you get into their THX consumer and pro lines. A lot more expensive.

I've heard nothing but good things about Ascend's customer service. Like many smaller ID companies that have been around a while, they're customer oriented and try to make sure you're happy.

Rythmik makes some outstanding subwoofers. The FV15HP will suit your room just fine and is quite tight and musical too. It will plumb the depths. biggrin.gif

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #12 of 36 Old 04-26-2013, 10:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 5,736
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 670 Post(s)
Liked: 881
I agree with Dan, the FV15HP is a killer sub. I prefer sealed so I went with the XS30 from PSA, its a great sub and would defiantly be worth looking at too.
Something else to chew on; you should take a look at Arx speakers. http://www.theaudioinsider.com/manufacturers.php?mPath=13
They seem to be getting some great user reviews on these forums and you could get a pair of their b-stock towers for $650, center channel for $209 and a pair of the bookshelf speakers for $299.
That would cost you $1157 for the speakers and $1150 for the XS30 sub. That would be a great 5.1 system for only $2300.

I also really like the Ascend speakers too. I was about to order some Sierra towers and matching center channel from them before deciding to go with some speakers from JTR.
Just trying to give you a few other options.
jbrown15 is offline  
post #13 of 36 Old 04-26-2013, 11:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
shadyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,635
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 191 Post(s)
Liked: 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by mat82284 View Post

I thought the Studio L series is better than the Studio 5 series?? According to there page they stats look better?

As for the rears thats a good mount for them. I'll keep them in mind if i get that set. I forgot to mention that i dont plan to mount the front cmt 340's or center. It was the 4 rears that i was thinking about.

I'll take the 5 series over the L series every day. The 5 series use actual compression drivers in their tweeters, and the L series have that ridiculous super tweeter. The specs are very much on the side of the 5 series, btw.
shadyJ is offline  
post #14 of 36 Old 04-27-2013, 01:20 AM
Senior Member
 
Petden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 33
One think with turning the volume up. It really comes down to two things. Firstly is how much power can the speakers handle and at what distortion. When you start to push speakers something tends to give sometimes it the highs sometimes its the lows and sometimes its every. Better drivers usually have higher power handling so you should be fine with the speakers you are looking it. Next is the sensitivity of the speaker. You say you like it loud. Most people are comfortable with 75-85db. That is pretty loud. Depending on how dar away you are will determine how much power you need to give the speakers. For example if the sensitivity of the speaker is 90db and you sit 13' back with only 1 watt you can get roughly 78dbs out of your speaker not factoring room gain. Now to get up to 88db you will 10watts and to get up to 98db you will need 100 watts. See how the power requirements change. 120 db is painful and 105db is considered reference levels, similar to a theatre. If you are considering bookshelf speakers then i would definitely get a better sub. Your room is big. The 15" sub will not inly have more output to poperly fill that room but the quality is much better too and you will notice how much more musical that sub is than your polk.
Petden is offline  
post #15 of 36 Old 04-27-2013, 01:59 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
mat82284's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 264
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petden View Post

One think with turning the volume up. It really comes down to two things. Firstly is how much power can the speakers handle and at what distortion. When you start to push speakers something tends to give sometimes it the highs sometimes its the lows and sometimes its every. Better drivers usually have higher power handling so you should be fine with the speakers you are looking it. Next is the sensitivity of the speaker. You say you like it loud. Most people are comfortable with 75-85db. That is pretty loud. Depending on how dar away you are will determine how much power you need to give the speakers. For example if the sensitivity of the speaker is 90db and you sit 13' back with only 1 watt you can get roughly 78dbs out of your speaker not factoring room gain. Now to get up to 88db you will 10watts and to get up to 98db you will need 100 watts. See how the power requirements change. 120 db is painful and 105db is considered reference levels, similar to a theatre. If you are considering bookshelf speakers then i would definitely get a better sub. Your room is big. The 15" sub will not inly have more output to poperly fill that room but the quality is much better too and you will notice how much more musical that sub is than your polk.

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for the advice, and thanks petden for the extra info on the db levels. I dont listen to music past hurting levels, I'd say 90db to 100db (probably drunk) max. As for the sub, i understand the difference between the 15" and the polk, but a 15 would be over $1000 and my current sub wouldn't match with it. For now I'll keep my current sub, but i'll purchase a second one. Then if the bass isn't quite what i want, i'll buy a 3rd, or 4th if needed; One for each wall to fill the room with bass.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mat82284 is offline  
post #16 of 36 Old 04-27-2013, 10:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,842
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 722 Post(s)
Liked: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by mat82284 View Post

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for the advice, and thanks petden for the extra info on the db levels. I dont listen to music past hurting levels, I'd say 90db to 100db (probably drunk) max. As for the sub, i understand the difference between the 15" and the polk, but a 15 would be over $1000 and my current sub wouldn't match with it. For now I'll keep my current sub, but i'll purchase a second one. Then if the bass isn't quite what i want, i'll buy a 3rd, or 4th if needed; One for each wall to fill the room with bass.

Is that a Polk sub from your speaker set? In all seriousness, buying another one of those wouldn't help with the bass at all. You're not improving the bass response in your system (tightness, fullness, tactile-ness, frequency range), you're doubling, tripling, quadrupling up on the same ol' low quality thing. Why not just use the current sub temporarily and then save up for one of these much better subs we've suggested already? Then get a second better sub at a later date to smooth out the room response. The Polk is a toy by comparison, sorry to say.

Use your existing funds for excellent speakers, instead?

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #17 of 36 Old 04-27-2013, 10:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 5,736
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 670 Post(s)
Liked: 881
If you want to keep it under a $1000 for a 15" sub take a look at the PSA XV15, it's $799 shipped and Audioholics gave it "sub of the year" award also.
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/xv-15-subwoofer
jbrown15 is offline  
post #18 of 36 Old 04-27-2013, 11:09 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,742
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 238 Post(s)
Liked: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

How about this well regarded speaker set? Increase your budget by a little bit (relatively speaking in this hobby) and you get a heck of a lot more.

All at Ascend Acoustics.com

CMT-340 SE (fronts)
CMT-340 SE (center)
HTM-200 SE (side and back surrounds)
TP-24 fillable pedestal stands for CMT-340 fronts

Rythmik FV15HP (black oak) 15" vented subwoofer w/600 watt amp

(You get a discount on Rythmik subs when purchased with Ascend speakers).

$2,618 + shipping.

You will die a happy, happy man. Well worth the extra money and you'd have a killer sub to fill that large open space.

I agree. These Ascends would be great speakers for your setup.

And while the Rythmik FV15HP is an awesome sub, there are other subs regularly recommended on the AVS subwoofer forum that are about half that price that would be a significant improvement over your PSW505: PSA XV15, HSU VTF-3 MK4, Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX, and SVS PB12-NSD. These subs will better the PSW505 in max output, low frequency extension, and SQ. The PSW505 is a great sub for $200, but it's not anywhere near the same league as those subs. Those are all Internet direct subwoofer vendors, You can't beat them in price/performance.

Jbrown already listed the review for the Power Sound Audio sub. Here are reviews for the Outlaw and SVS:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/pb12-nsd
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/lfm-1-ex-review

I'd suggest getting any of those four now over the FV15HP, and then when you can afford it, get a second matching one. Dual subs have the benefit of smoothing the in room response.

Your questions are answered:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

HT: Energy RC-50, RC-LCR, Veritas VS Surrounds | Dual CHT SS 18.1s | Denon AVR-888 | modified Dayton SA1000 | Antimode 8033C
Desktop: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | HK 3390
Headphone & Portable HE-400 | K612 Pro | HP150 | DX50 | E12
cel4145 is online now  
post #19 of 36 Old 04-27-2013, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
mat82284's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 264
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Is that a Polk sub from your speaker set? In all seriousness, buying another one of those wouldn't help with the bass at all. You're not improving the bass response in your system (tightness, fullness, tactile-ness, frequency range), you're doubling, tripling, quadrupling up on the same ol' low quality thing. Why not just use the current sub temporarily and then save up for one of these much better subs we've suggested already? Then get a second better sub at a later date to smooth out the room response. The Polk is a toy by comparison, sorry to say.

Use your existing funds for excellent speakers, instead?

I have this sub, its not a sub that comes in a set at all. Its a powerfull 12" sub at a decent $200 price tag.

http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-12-Inch-Powered-Subwoofer/dp/B000092TT0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367087311&sr=8-1&keywords=ps505
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I agree. These Ascends would be great speakers for your setup.

And while the Rythmik FV15HP is an awesome sub, there are other subs regularly recommended on the AVS subwoofer forum that are about half that price that would be a significant improvement over your PSW505: PSA XV15, HSU VTF-3 MK4, Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX, and SVS PB12-NSD. These subs will better the PSW505 in max output, low frequency extension, and SQ. The PSW505 is a great sub for $200, but it's not anywhere near the same league as those subs. Those are all Internet direct subwoofer vendors, You can't beat them in price/performance.

Jbrown already listed the review for the Power Sound Audio sub. Here are reviews for the Outlaw and SVS:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/pb12-nsd
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/lfm-1-ex-review

I'd suggest getting any of those four now over the FV15HP, and then when you can afford it, get a second matching one. Dual subs have the benefit of smoothing the in room response.

Thanks, I understand what everyone is trying to say, but what i don't understand is what the difference is between a top end sub and multiple low end subs. If i bought 4 of these subs, they should be better than the 15 in terms of bass, yes it may not be as accurate, but its still cheaper and would be almost double is bass. It's not like I'd ever run subs at max anyways, but i like the bass when the gain is about half way. So 3-4 subs at half way would be a great increase.

I'm just trying to understand how a one 15" sub can be better than 4 12" subs at 300rms each. Unless that 15" is a 2000w rms sub i just dont understand how it can be better. Can someone please explain to me what makes it better?

Again i'm used to car audio and with car audio, its not always about 1 good sub, but multiple cheap subs can be just as powerful. It just was a preference for 1 good sub depending on the cars available trunk size. I hope i'm not coming off as argumentative; I just want to understand why paying $1400 for a 15" sub is better than $800 ($600 more since i have one) for 4 12"s instead. Technically i only need 2 more 12's. I have another psw505 in my room that i could move to the living room if i wanted making the sub upgrade $400 instead of $1400.

Also with car audio, the sound was better with 10's than 12's and 12's sounded better than 15's. How is it the 15" can be more accurate than say multiple 10's or 12s? I thought the smaller the sub the better they sound and the bigger they are the less accurate the sound is?

I'm all for quality, but if my current sub sounds great to me for quality then why should i upgrade. My only complaint is that the bass is a little weak, but that can be fixed by adding more.

Its not a money issue, its more of "Do i really need it" type of issue. I like quality things, but audio was never something i ever really got into for quality and has always been good enough for me.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mat82284 is offline  
post #20 of 36 Old 04-27-2013, 11:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,842
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 722 Post(s)
Liked: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by mat82284 View Post

I have this sub, its not a sub that comes in a set at all. Its a powerfull 12" sub at a decent $200 price tag.

http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-12-Inch-Powered-Subwoofer/dp/B000092TT0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367087311&sr=8-1&keywords=ps505
Thanks, I understand what everyone is trying to say, but what i don't understand is what the difference is between a top end sub and multiple low end subs. If i bought 4 of these subs, they should be better than the 15 in terms of bass, yes it may not be as accurate, but its still cheaper and would be almost double is bass. It's not like I'd ever run subs at max anyways, but i like the bass when the gain is about half way. So 3-4 subs at half way would be a great increase.

I'm just trying to understand how a one 15" sub can be better than 4 12" subs at 300rms each. Unless that 15" is a 2000w rms sub i don't see it being better. Can someone please explain to me what makes it better?

Again i'm used to car audio and with car audio, its not always about 1 good sub, but multiple cheap subs can be just as powerful. It just was a preference for 1 good sub depending on the cars size available. I hope i'm not coming off as argumentative. I just want to understand why paying $1400 for a 15" sub is better than $800 ($600 more since i have one) for 4 12"s instead. Technically i only need 2 more 12's. I have another psw505 in my room that i could move to the living room if i wanted making the sub upgrade $400 instead of $1400.

I'm all for quality, but if my current sub sounds great to me for quality then why should i upgrade. My only complaint is that the bass is a little weak, but that can be fixed by adding more.

Buying two of something of lesser quality doesn't automatically mean it will equal one of something that's already excellent by design. biggrin.gif

The Polk's are not built with high quality drivers with massive voice coils and spiders, extremely well reinforced cabinet bracing, thick walled cabinets, and robust digital servo amps (to control driver excursion). They're built to be budget subs for, well, budget conscious customers. There's a reason they sound weak and it's in the parts they're using.

Not to sound snobbish, but the FV15HP is like an Audi sports car by comparison... all the parts are of quality and the frequency response sweeps are impressive. At the lowest tactile frequencies (below 20 Hz), you're still getting quite a bit of oomph, whereas the Polk will die off in the upper 30 Hz range... not good for movies. It's far more accurate in the recreation of the frequencies it's designed to produce. More musical, and tight. The hit and decay of the notes are very fast and not flabby or bloated. During heavy bass passages, the sound is practically effortless and doesn't sound strained with minimal port noise. An explosion will sock you in the chest with visceral energy. Movies and music would sound more like being in a commercial cinema, which is the idea behind home theater systems.

The larger Rythmik will handle about as well as a couple, smaller 12" subs in sheer audio output. We're mainly just saying that if you can't afford the hit of one big, somewhat expensive sub all at once, getting a couple smaller, less expensive 12" subs (like the ones mentioned) over time would work about the same in volume output. If you're looking to tame room acoustic peaks and nulls, then multiple subs will help give you an more even spread of sound.

It all depends on your wants and needs. User Axxiom got Ascend speakers and a 15" Rythmik sub in a smaller apartment (like putting a bull in a china shop) and is loving every minute of it. He's even considering getting a second Rythmik for the purpose of smoothing out the room response... the depth of bass is already impressive.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #21 of 36 Old 04-27-2013, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
mat82284's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 264
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Buying two of something of lesser quality doesn't automatically mean it will equal one of something that's already excellent by design. biggrin.gif

The Polk's are not built with high quality drivers with massive voice coils and spiders, extremely well reinforced cabinet bracing, thick walled cabinets, and robust digital servo amps (to control driver excursion). They're built to be budget subs for, well, budget conscious customers. There's a reason they sound weak and it's in the parts they're using.

Not to sound snobbish, but the FV15HP is like an Audi sports car by comparison... all the parts are of quality and the frequency response sweeps are impressive. At the lowest tactile frequencies (below 20 Hz), you're still getting quite a bit of oomph, whereas the Polk will die off in the upper 30 Hz range... not good for movies. It's far more accurate in the recreation of the frequencies it's designed to produce. More musical, and tight. The hit and decay of the notes are very fast and not flabby or bloated. An explosion will sock you in the chest with visceral energy. Movies and music would sound more like being in a commercial cinema, which is the idea behind home theater systems.

The larger Rythmik will handle about as well as a couple, smaller 12" subs in sheer audio output. We're mainly just saying that if you can't afford the hit of one big, somewhat expensive sub all at once, getting a couple smaller, less expensive 12" subs (like the ones mentioned) over time would work about the same in volume output. If you're looking to tame room acoustic peaks and nulls, then multiple subs will help give you an more even spread of sound.

It all depends on your wants and needs. User Axxiom got Ascend speakers and a 15" Rythmik sub in a smaller apartment (like putting a bull in a china shop) and is loving every minute of it. He's even considering getting a second Rythmik for the purpose of smoothing out the room response... the depth of bass is already impressive.

Thanks!

That really helped opened up my eyes on that one. I didn't really think there was to much difference in build quality, but that does make sense. Maybe I'll go ahead and purchase one with the speakers and if it doesn't blow me away or sound different to me I'll just send it back. At least that way i can give it a try and see how it works. I'm also in California and would love to check them out in person, but im unlucky to be next to the LA area, instead i'm near the capital of california, otherwise it would be easy to just go and check it out.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mat82284 is offline  
post #22 of 36 Old 04-27-2013, 12:44 PM
Advanced Member
 
NewHTbuyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 537
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 39
My understanding is adding a second identical sub can increase output by about 6 dB if placed in the same spot and by about 3dB if placed in another location. You will not get deeper bass at all from adding a second weak sub. The only benefit of adding a second Polk sub is that you would get smoother response throughout your room.

You really should not compare subs based on driver size or amp rating. It is really all about output, which is determined by the sum of all the parts(driver size, amp power, enclosure size, sealed or ported, DSP etc.). That is why finding reviews of subs with measurements is key. Check out this site that has compiled measurements on lots of subs

http://www.data-bass.com/home

One good sub will play louder, lower, and more accurate than many poor subs together.

You really can't go wrong with any sub from SVS, Rhythmik, Powersound Audio, Hsu, Outlaw. Any of those will be a dramatic improvement and add much enjoyment to music and especially movies.

NewHTbuyer is offline  
post #23 of 36 Old 04-27-2013, 04:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,842
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 722 Post(s)
Liked: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by mat82284 View Post

Thanks!

That really helped opened up my eyes on that one. I didn't really think there was to much difference in build quality, but that does make sense. Maybe I'll go ahead and purchase one with the speakers and if it doesn't blow me away or sound different to me I'll just send it back. At least that way i can give it a try and see how it works. I'm also in California and would love to check them out in person, but im unlucky to be next to the LA area, instead [I'm near the capital of California, otherwise it would be easy to just go and check it out.

If you set the Rythmik up correctly and calibrate the rest of your audio system (once purchased), and you think the Polk sounds no different... then I'd be flabbergasted to say the least. I think you'll be sitting there with a giant grin on your face. smile.gif

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #24 of 36 Old 04-27-2013, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
mat82284's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 264
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

If you set the Rythmik up correctly and calibrate the rest of your audio system (once purchased), and you think the Polk sounds no different... then I'd be flabbergasted to say the least. I think you'll be sitting there with a giant grin on your face. smile.gif

Haha i know what you mean. It'll be like the time i added a supercharger to my car. One second i thought 300hp was fast, then doubled it to 600 and was shocked at the difference. I'm sure audio is the same way. Since i've never been around good quality (other than a theater) i wont know what to expect.

I'll go ahead and place the order once im back from hawaii so it'll be a few weeks before i get them. I did e-mail them to see if its possible to stack two CMT-340 SE on top of each other. I figured instead of buying a stand i could stack them and use the bottom as my normal left and right and the top's as my left and right highs since i have a 9.2 receiver i might as well take advantage of it. I also asked about them combining making a custom one with two of them together for me in a stand that way i don't have to stack them and worry about it falling over.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mat82284 is offline  
post #25 of 36 Old 04-27-2013, 05:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 5,736
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 670 Post(s)
Liked: 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by mat82284 View Post

Haha i know what you mean. It'll be like the time i added a supercharger to my car. One second i thought 300hp was fast, then doubled it to 600 and was shocked at the difference. I'm sure audio is the same way. Since i've never been around good quality (other than a theater) i wont know what to expect.

I'll go ahead and place the order once im back from hawaii so it'll be a few weeks before i get them. I did e-mail them to see if its possible to stack two CMT-340 SE on top of each other. I figured instead of buying a stand i could stack them and use the bottom as my normal left and right and the top's as my left and right highs since i have a 9.2 receiver i might as well take advantage of it. I also asked about them combining making a custom one with two of them together for me in a stand that way i don't have to stack them and worry about it falling over.

What the heck kind of car do you have and what super charger kit was able to double your horsepower?
jbrown15 is offline  
post #26 of 36 Old 04-27-2013, 05:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
shadyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,635
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 191 Post(s)
Liked: 520
You will want to keep the front stage speaker's tweeters at ear level, so if you are using height speakers, make sure they are well above you. I would skip CMT's as heights, it will be very awkward to make that work. I would just get some CBM170s on a mount that can tilt down and aim at the listening position. Besides that spending and using CMTs as height speakers is pretty wasteful on such a modest budget and overkill on such a negligible sound channel.
shadyJ is offline  
post #27 of 36 Old 04-27-2013, 05:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,842
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 722 Post(s)
Liked: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by mat82284 View Post

Haha i know what you mean. It'll be like the time i added a supercharger to my car. One second i thought 300hp was fast, then doubled it to 600 and was shocked at the difference. I'm sure audio is the same way. Since i've never been around good quality (other than a theater) i wont know what to expect.

I'll go ahead and place the order once im back from hawaii so it'll be a few weeks before i get them. I did e-mail them to see if its possible to stack two CMT-340 SE on top of each other. I figured instead of buying a stand i could stack them and use the bottom as my normal left and right and the top's as my left and right highs since i have a 9.2 receiver i might as well take advantage of it. I also asked about them combining making a custom one with two of them together for me in a stand that way i don't have to stack them and worry about it falling over.

That can cause some unwanted frequency response fluctuations and frequency cancellations (kind of like having two center speakers, one above and one below the TV screen). Better to put them on their suggested pedestals and then do one of two things with the 9.2 channel processing on your receiver:

1) Use another set of HTM-200's (the other two pairs for side and back channel speakers) for the height effects placed at the recommended locations higher up on the front screen wall.

2) Get another pair of CMT-340 SE's and pedestals and use them for the front wide speakers (you get a greater frequency response from front wide processing and the screen wall speakers that are coupled to the L/C/R array need to be as sonically identical as possible).

Since it's not an 11.2 channel receiver, you can't decode heights and wides and the same time... you'll have to pick which one you believe will give you the best "add-on" audio augmentation to the standard 7.1 discrete channels, which is the maximum discrete soundtrack available for Blu-ray discs.

A little info on DTS Neo:X processing.

http://www.dts.com/consumers/entertainment-audio/neox.aspx

Personally, if you're going to end up doing 9.2 decoding, I'd do the front wides for the best bang vs. buck. The newer, more advanced audio formats coming along may have different required locations for height channels, as in actually overhead... but the five front stage speakers will be pretty much the same general idea as DTS Neo:X. Saves you from having to re-wire in the future, if you don't have to. biggrin.gif

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #28 of 36 Old 04-27-2013, 05:47 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,742
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 238 Post(s)
Liked: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by mat82284 View Post

Thanks!

That really helped opened up my eyes on that one. I didn't really think there was to much difference in build quality, but that does make sense. Maybe I'll go ahead and purchase one with the speakers and if it doesn't blow me away or sound different to me I'll just send it back. At least that way i can give it a try and see how it works. I'm also in California and would love to check them out in person, but im unlucky to be next to the LA area, instead i'm near the capital of california, otherwise it would be easy to just go and check it out.

There definitely will be a dramatic difference. biggrin.gif

But before jumping on it, what is your total sub budget likely to be? I would choose duals of those subs I previously mentioned over the one FV15HP. Not only can duals smooth the in room response at the primary listening position, helping to eliminate dips and nulls, but also throughout a wider listening area. Since you want this for a living room setup that is 70% music use, the duals would likely give you better room filling bass throughout.

Of course is you are willing to buy a second FV15HP later on, that go for it smile.gif

Your questions are answered:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

HT: Energy RC-50, RC-LCR, Veritas VS Surrounds | Dual CHT SS 18.1s | Denon AVR-888 | modified Dayton SA1000 | Antimode 8033C
Desktop: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | HK 3390
Headphone & Portable HE-400 | K612 Pro | HP150 | DX50 | E12
cel4145 is online now  
post #29 of 36 Old 04-27-2013, 06:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,842
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 722 Post(s)
Liked: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

There definitely will be a dramatic difference. biggrin.gif

Of course if you are willing to buy a second FV15HP later on, then go for it smile.gif

We do love to spend other people's money, don't we? biggrin.gif

But, in the end... it's worth it.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #30 of 36 Old 04-27-2013, 06:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Nethawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by mat82284 View Post


Thanks, I understand what everyone is trying to say, but what i don't understand is what the difference is between a top end sub and multiple low end subs. If i bought 4 of these subs, they should be better than the 15 in terms of bass, yes it may not be as accurate, but its still cheaper and would be almost double is bass. It's not like I'd ever run subs at max anyways, but i like the bass when the gain is about half way. So 3-4 subs at half way would be a great increase.

I chased around mediocre subs for way too long. I would shrug it off, thinking that's just the way it is. Even loose and boomy, Die Hard is still a lot of fun. While I've made a few mistakes over the years with regard to ways of entertaining myself, this is high on the list of things I'd like to do over. It's a big part of anyone's HT system, and there's a fine line between sounding like crap and sounding spectacular. You should save your money for a good sub or two. Just sayin'.

Nethawk is offline  
Reply Speakers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off