Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 (7.1) or Klipsch HDT 600 (5.1) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 04-27-2013, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi, great forum! I've been lurking and lurking trying to get the best setup for my first home theatre audio setup. 99% of use will be day to day TV watching and HD movies (Bluray). Music is almost a non consideration.

I should point out that the price is roughly the same for these two systems:

Wharfedale
Front: Diamond 10.1
Centre: Diamond 10CS
Surround: DX-1 satellite http://www.wharfedale.co.uk/Products/Product/tabid/78/PID/268/CID/270/language/en-GB/Default.aspx#detail
Rear - DX-1 satellite
Subwoofer - SVS PB-1000

Klipsch http://www.klipsch.com/high-definition-theater-600-home-theater-system
Front: HDT 600 satellite
Centre: HDT 600 centre
Surround: HDT 600 satellite
Subwoofer: SVS PB-1000

Firstly, which is the better system. Please try to justify your response if possible. I am interested in 7.1 as I want this to be a bit of a set and forget setup which will hopefully last for many years. I prefer the look of the Wharfedales for whatever that factor may be worth smile.gif

There is zero ability for me to audition either system from where I'm currently located unfortunately.

If you don't think the upgrade to the SVS PB-1000 subwoofer is worth it please advise as I believe the included Klipsch subwoofer is quite good? http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-report-klipsch-hd-theater-600-51-speaker-system?page=0,3

It would save me >$650 too if I just used the included Klipsch

Fire away and thanks for the help!
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post #2 of 31 Old 04-28-2013, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Also which would be a better receiver for the wharfedale 7.1 setup, a Denon 2113CI or a Yamaha RX-V673?

Given the front/centres have such different frequencies to the rear/surrounds, I thought the denon as it would allow seperate crossovers to be set. True?
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post #3 of 31 Old 04-28-2013, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Bugger, the DX-1s are 4 ohm which the denon doesn't support

Any suggestions?
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post #4 of 31 Old 04-28-2013, 08:29 AM
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That Klipsch sub in that HTIB set is not in the same league as the SVS PB-1000. Huge difference in performance.

Small speakers with tiny drivers like the Klipsch set will not perform as well as the Wharfedales. They can't produce midbass, and have to rely on the sub to do that. Much better to go with the Wharfedales for a fuller, richer sound.

I like the Denon receiver better because of Audyssey MultEQ XT room correction which will EQ the speakers AND the sub; most other room correction software only EQs the speakers.

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post #5 of 31 Old 04-28-2013, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfimbul View Post

Bugger, the DX-1s are 4 ohm which the denon doesn't support

Any suggestions?

If you want an alternative set to look at, Ascend Acoustics makes some great speakers for HT usage. The CBM-170 SE for the front left/right, CMT-340 SE center, and then HTM-200 SE would make for a nice setup. Ascend is an Internet direct speaker vendor, so very good value.

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post #6 of 31 Old 04-28-2013, 08:37 AM
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I'm a big fan of Wharfedale Diamonds

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout

My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

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post #7 of 31 Old 04-28-2013, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Golfimbul View Post

Bugger, the DX-1s are 4 ohm which the denon doesn't support

Any suggestions?

Buy Diamond 10.0 or 10.1 instead.
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post #8 of 31 Old 04-28-2013, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bbboy View Post

And how big a difference does this make? I ask because the Denon is really expensive locally (lots more than the VX-R673). So if you had a choice out of those two amps you'd take the Denon?
OK. If it's substantially more, I wouldn't worry about it. Put your money into the speakers and sub smile.gif
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Not really an option in my neck of the woods. I LOVE the look of the Diamonds as well... Embarrassing I know!

I didn't catch that you were down under. The Diamonds do look nice. And here, people that buy them are very satisfied with the money they spent. I'd go for it smile.gif

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post #9 of 31 Old 04-28-2013, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

That Klipsch sub in that HTIB set is not in the same league as the SVS PB-1000. Huge difference in performance.

I thought not but still considered it reasonably decent? In any case, the Wharfedales seem to be getting the big nod so I'll probably end up with them. Still a few things to decide if you don't mind sticking around to help out!
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Small speakers with tiny drivers like the Klipsch set will not perform as well as the Wharfedales. They can't produce midbass, and have to rely on the sub to do that. Much better to go with the Wharfedales for a fuller, richer sound.

Good to know. Almost universal view in this thread so far.
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I like the Denon receiver better because of Audyssey MultEQ XT room correction which will EQ the speakers AND the sub; most other room correction software only EQs the speakers.

And how big a difference does this make? I ask because the Denon is really expensive locally (lots more than the VX-R673). So if you had a choice out of those two amps you'd take the Denon?
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

If you want an alternative set to look at, Ascend Acoustics makes some great speakers for HT usage. The CBM-170 SE for the front left/right, CMT-340 SE center, and then HTM-200 SE would make for a nice setup. Ascend is an Internet direct speaker vendor, so very good value.

Not really an option in my neck of the woods. I LOVE the look of the Diamonds as well... Embarrassing I know!
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I'm a big fan of Wharfedale Diamonds

A +1. Thanks
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Originally Posted by Badouri View Post

Buy Diamond 10.0 or 10.1 instead.

Budgets my good man, budgets! Despite me saying that, this is likely what I will wind up doing. But it'll probably be the Diamond 10sr. They have a listed frequency response as low as 70hz. That would permit me to set a crossover of 80hz globally and be OK I imagine?

I'll be ceiling mounting the surrounds and rears and routing the ceiling to install some 12AWG wiring the filling it back in with the wire insitu. Any forseeable issues?

So the remaining questions are:

1) Diamond 10SR or 10.0 for surrounds/rears? Bearing in mind the 10sr are cheaper and I'll be ceiling mounting them, not wall mounting. I can't find a review for the 10sr anywhere!
2) Denon 2113 (more expensive) or Yamaha RX-V673 (cheaper). It should be noted the australian denon is different to the US one. Check out this page for the specs I would be getting. http://www.audioproducts.com.au/ProductInfo.aspx?pid=AVR2113BK
3) Everyone happy with the SVS PB-1000? It's just a shade under $700 here... frown.gif

I must admit to having a bit of a Yamaha tendency. Not even sure why. Buying it locally and cheaper has a role to play here too...
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post #10 of 31 Old 04-28-2013, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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OK. If it's substantially more, I wouldn't worry about it. Put your money into the speakers and sub smile.gif

Well it is locally. I can actually import it for less than the cost of the Yamaha though. I'd rather buy locally for warranty purposes but if it's a lot better, I'll just risk it.
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I didn't catch that you were down under. The Diamonds do look nice. And here, people that buy them are very satisfied with the money they spent. I'd go for it smile.gif

So I could set the crossover to 80hz with this setup? The 10sr seem to be the weakest link.
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post #11 of 31 Old 04-28-2013, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfimbul View Post

Well it is locally. I can actually import it for less than the cost of the Yamaha though. I'd rather buy locally for warranty purposes but if it's a lot better, I'll just risk it.
So I could set the crossover to 80hz with this setup? The 10sr seem to be the weakest link.

Audyssey can make a difference. Subwoofers sometimes need as much EQ help as the speakers do. So what Audyssey will do is try to smooth the in-room response of the sub so that it's flatter.

I believe that Denon receiver should let you set the crossover differently for the left/right, center, and left/right surround pairings.

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post #12 of 31 Old 04-28-2013, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Audyssey can make a difference. Subwoofers sometimes need as much EQ help as the speakers do. So what Audyssey will do is try to smooth the in-room response of the sub so that it's flatter.

Interesting. And it's a lot better than Yamaha's YPAO RSC?
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I believe that Denon receiver should let you set the crossover differently for the left/right, center, and left/right surround pairings.

It does but I'm assuming I can set it globally to 80hz and be done with it if I get the 10sr for rear/surrounds. The only disadvantage of the Denon that I can see is that it can't power 4ohm speakers. Not an issue now but future proofing is part of why I'm choosing this setup. The Denon also doesn't permit 4K upscaling (the Yamaha does) which might matter down the track (though it probably won't as my HTPC will likely upscale with a graphics card upgrade when the time comes and passthrough will be all that is needed)

Which provides the better sound? 2113 or RX-V673?

RX-V673 got the whathifi product of the year award for 2012! Probably swaying me a little...
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post #13 of 31 Old 04-28-2013, 04:58 PM
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The Yamaha 673 has a universal crossover whereas the Denon has separate crossovers for the front, center and surround speakers.

So if you have different size speakers with the Yamaha its going to set the crossover based on the smallest speaker. For instance with small satellites as surrounds it may set the crossover at 100hz or 120hz even if your larger fronts should be crossed over at 60hz or 80hz.

Plus the Denon with Audyssey MultEQ XT will EQ the subwoofer.

Afro GT
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post #14 of 31 Old 04-28-2013, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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The Yamaha 673 has a universal crossover whereas the Denon has separate crossovers for the front, center and surround speakers.

So if you have different size speakers with the Yamaha its going to set the crossover based on the smallest speaker. For instance with small satellites as surrounds it may set the crossover at 100hz or 120hz even if your larger fronts should be crossed over at 60hz or 80hz.

Will that matter with the speaker setup I've planned out? Surely I'll just set it to 80hz and be done with it?
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Plus the Denon with Audyssey MultEQ XT will EQ the subwoofer.

I must admit I know little about EQing but you guys make it sound very important!

Aside from the 4ohm thing, is there any disadvantage of the Denon? I understand it has less input options but that doesn't really concern me, everything I own (or intend to purchase) has HDMI output anyway (except for my wii but who cares.)

It is cheaper but warranty would be a huge PITA if it has a fault.
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post #15 of 31 Old 04-28-2013, 05:47 PM
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Will that matter with the speaker setup I've planned out? Surely I'll just set it to 80hz and be done with it?

if you get the DX1 surrounds they only go to 120hz so there would be a gap between 80hz - 120hz for the surrounds. if you get the D10sr you should be okay since they can go down to 70hz.

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post #16 of 31 Old 04-28-2013, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

if you get the DX1 surrounds they only go to 120hz so there would be a gap between 80hz - 120hz for the surrounds. if you get the D10sr you should be okay since they can go down to 70hz.

How reliable are the manufacturers stated specs?

I can't find any independently verified data on the Diamond 10sr unfortunately frown.gif

The DX-1 matched up with this review though perfectly so I'm guessing Wharfedale can be trusted? http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-report-wharfedale-dx-1-speaker-system?page=0,2
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post #17 of 31 Old 04-28-2013, 06:21 PM
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No way to know for sure how accurate the posted frequency responses are without a lab measurement.

when you run YPAO it'll set the crossover accordingly. More than likely the 10sr or DX1 will have the highest crossover point.

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post #18 of 31 Old 04-28-2013, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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No way to know for sure how accurate the posted frequency responses are without a lab measurement.

when you run YPAO it'll set the crossover accordingly. More than likely the 10sr or DX1 will have the highest crossover point.

The Denon has Audyssey MultEQ XT (not XT32). Still superior to YPAO RSC?

Given we don't know the true frequencies of the 10sr, maybe the Denon is the safer option so I get the flexibility of crossover adjustments.
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post #19 of 31 Old 04-28-2013, 09:02 PM
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single point measurement on the 673 and still only one crossover for all speakers.

I'd still take Audyssey Mult EQ XT over YPAO.
Quote:
The Denon has Audyssey MultEQ XT (not XT32). Still superior to YPAO RSC?

i dont think I ever said the 2113 had XT 32. I own multiple Denon receivers so I'm pretty familiar with Audyssey setup.

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post #20 of 31 Old 04-28-2013, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
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single point measurement on the 673 and still only one crossover for all speakers.

I'd still take Audyssey Mult EQ XT over YPAO.

i dont think I ever said the 2113 had XT 32. I own multiple Denon receivers so I'm pretty familiar with Audyssey setup.

Haha, I didn't say you had! I was just clarifying my question (as much for myself as anyone else) so it wasn't ambiguous

Seems the overwhelming majority in here prefer the Denon 2113 over the Yamaha RX-V673. I'm really being swayed by the hordes!
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post #21 of 31 Old 04-29-2013, 05:36 AM
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Budgets my good man, budgets!

My apologies! tongue.gif
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post #22 of 31 Old 04-29-2013, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
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This began with me telling my wife I'd get us a setup for <$1000. A yamaha YHT-798 or YHT-498 were the original plan

Currently looking at $2500...
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post #23 of 31 Old 04-30-2013, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Looks like the speakers will be ~$1200 (excluding sub). I think they're a good set?

Is the sub (SVS PB-1000) a good fit with this setup of diamond 10.1, diamond 10CS and diamond 10sr (rear and surround)?

It'll be another $675 delivered (all Aussie dollars so slightly more US)

I've started a new thread for the av receiver deliberation in the amp section
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post #24 of 31 Old 05-03-2013, 02:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Any thoughts on bang for buck and how well this all "goes together"?

Keeping in mind it's for home theatre exclusively
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post #25 of 31 Old 05-03-2013, 09:30 AM
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I am running a 2.1 system right now:
Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 Fronts
Klipsch RW-12D Sub.

I'm very happy.

The Klipsch sub is $349.99 (USD) right now on NewEgg. The price fluctuates a lot - I think I got mine for $300. It might save you some money - I can't tell you how it will compare to the SVS (which I'm certain is nice).

I am planning on getting the 10.CS and 10.SR's eventually to complete the 5.1 surround system. My experience with the 10.2's has given me confidence. smile.gif

Here is a review that uses the big 10.5's a fronts in an 100%-Wharfe 5.1 system:
http://hometheaterreview.com/wharfedale-diamond-10-series-51-speaker-system-reviewed/

They speak about solid performance from the CM and SR's. And they talk about upgrading the sub. So you are on the right track.

You can agonize about the biggest-bang-for-the-buck forever. AVBristol still has the 10.5 fronts on sale for 299 (pounds). Sometimes I wonder if I should grab those! I keep seeing good deals on used stuff too - and I wonder "did I make the best choice for my money?". In the end, I pop a beer and sit in that sweet spot and fully enjoy it.

Part of the "fun" is shopping around, but once you make up your mind - and are happy with the sound - don't second-guess the "biggest bang for the buck" part - unless you just like to torture yourself that way (like I do). biggrin.gif
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post #26 of 31 Old 05-04-2013, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Well things have changed again. It's actually cheaper for me to get

Fronts: Wharfedale Diamond 121
Centre: Wharfedale Diamond 100c
Surrounds: Wharfedale Diamond 10.0
Rear: Wharfedale Diamond 10.0

Well matched? Purely home theatre still. Denon 2113 almost certainly going to be the AVR

Now the sub. Should I go SVS SB-1000 or PB-1000 for movie watching with these speakers? I'm leaning toward the PB-1000. I've never owned a home theatre system or sub and I don't have the ability to audition any of this stuff so am grateful for all input possible!
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post #27 of 31 Old 05-05-2013, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Golfimbul View Post

Well things have changed again. It's actually cheaper for me to get

Fronts: Wharfedale Diamond 121
Centre: Wharfedale Diamond 100c
Surrounds: Wharfedale Diamond 10.0
Rear: Wharfedale Diamond 10.0

Well matched? Purely home theatre still. Denon 2113 almost certainly going to be the AVR

Now the sub. Should I go SVS SB-1000 or PB-1000 for movie watching with these speakers? I'm leaning toward the PB-1000. I've never owned a home theatre system or sub and I don't have the ability to audition any of this stuff so am grateful for all input possible!

Just to confirm, I pulled the trigger on the Wharfedales. Still unsure about what sub though (and receiver but that's in the appropriate section -> amps)

Anyone with any views on these combinations of gear?
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post #28 of 31 Old 05-05-2013, 08:51 PM
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Get the SVS PB-1000. It has more output than the SB-1000, and it digs deeper. The latter is a plus for HT usage, and better to have more max output than you need than not enough. The SB-1000 would be a good choice for a small room for a music setup (such as a bedroom or home office) or if the wife/GF absolutely won't let you get anything bigger biggrin.gif

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post #29 of 31 Old 05-05-2013, 11:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Get the SVS PB-1000. It has more output than the SB-1000, and it digs deeper. The latter is a plus for HT usage, and better to have more max output than you need than not enough. The SB-1000 would be a good choice for a small room for a music setup (such as a bedroom or home office) or if the wife/GF absolutely won't let you get anything bigger biggrin.gif

I actually have to chop up some shelving to get the PB-1000 in so realistically it's as big as I can go.

It's going to be in a corner with a bookshelf on one side (eg, surrounded on three sides) which I understand is less than ideal.

No other option though realistically (except smack bang in the middle under the TV which my wife would put the kabosh on I think
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post #30 of 31 Old 05-07-2013, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone have any idea what would be a good ceiling mount option for the Wharfedale Diamond 10.0

From the looks of it, they have two screw holes at the back, quite low on the speaker: Diamond 10.0 rear.jpg 40k .jpg file

From http://www.valkokangas.net/data/dth/di/diamond10.0-rosewood_rear_540_3bv09gu1ks.jpg_860x860.jpg

Any tips?
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File Type: jpg Diamond 10.0 rear.jpg (40.2 KB, 3 views)
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