Audiophile needing help - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 04-28-2013, 03:32 AM - Thread Starter
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1st post here in AVS but a longtime reader and hometheater enthusiast. I have spent the last 2 years or so spending some time on a speaker selection for my hometheater setup. Through endless demoing and hours of testing, I have made my selection of speakers based off of: feasibility, sound, location in my living-room, and price. Here is the speaker selection I made:

Front R/L

MartinLogan - Axis

Center

MartinLogan - Axis

Surround R/L

MarinLogan - ElectroMotion IC

For maximum range and angle

Rear R/L

MartinLogan - ElectroMotion IC

For maximum range and angle

Subwoofer

MartinLogan - Dynamo 700w

Amplifier

Pioneer Elite - SC-65

I know in-ceiling speakers are frowned upon here at AVS, but because of my shape and design, in-ceiling speakers are the only application I can use for SR/L and RR/L speakers. All speakers are in-wall, minus the subwoofer, based off of kids, pets, sound, looks, price. I am stuck on my decision for in-ceiling and in-wall but I have never had them personally, or know anyone who has a decent brand of speaker to review or giver their opinion on them.

I already own the Pioneer Elite SC-65, but I am using cheap speakers from other systems I have had over the years. Now that I own my own home, I want to finally buy an amazing system. I am a little concerned with every large purchase I make and seeing how these will all be in-wall speakers, effect the structure of the wall, I need to be 100% certain with my purchase.

Finally to my question; Does anyone have any experience with in-wall and in-ceiling speakers and have any advice or tips before making this purchase? I don't have any experience with in-wall or in-ceiling speakers so anything would help.

Thanks in advance

OPHICERMANGO
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post #2 of 13 Old 04-28-2013, 05:31 AM
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I have no experience with ML, other than auditions in BB...and not a big fan of them...but to each his own.
As to how good these Axis are, no clue.
As far as in-walls in general, you're only cutting out small pieces of sheetrock, so NO structural damage.

On the other hand, you could go on-wall speakers for the LCRs, if you do not want to cut into your walls.
And there are some brands that have angled, on-ceiling speakers, Thiel powerpoint 1.2 comes to mind.
The 1.2 are good for surround duty, but I would never use them for LCRs.
I've auditioned a number of systems that used ceiling mounted speakers for LCRs(above the screen) and everyone of them sounded wrong, imo. Like listening to something from outer space.
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post #3 of 13 Old 04-28-2013, 03:56 PM
 
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With any open back speaker their sound changes depending on the volume of the cavity they are placed.  In your price range I would not use an open back speaker such as these unless they make a back box for it.  I don't know if they do or not, something to ask the dealer.  If they don't look for another speaker brand, there are many brands that have either back boxes or are in a solid enclosure.  There is nothing wrong with using in wall speakers acoustically they have some advantages over on wall or free standing.  In fact they are used in many pro recording studios but they are not called in walls, they are called baffle mounted speakers but the acoustical benefits are the same.

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post #4 of 13 Old 04-28-2013, 05:47 PM
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Martin Logan surely makes fine speakers.....but I don't know about their "in wall LCR's" or " in ceiling".

Have you considered Triad in wall LCR's and ceiling speakers? .... http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/intropagelcrscenter.html

Very large owners thread..... http://www.avsforum.com/t/921427/triad-owners-thread

If I were considering in wall speakers, these are the speakers I would get. Possibly the first hi-end in wall, in ceiling speakers.
I believe they would be more dynamic than Martin Logan, which would be good for home theater.

As far as a sub, I would forget Martin Logan or Triad, and consider Power Sound Audio. New company started
by Tom Vodhamel (the "V" in SVS) and Jim Farina.....http://www.powersoundaudio.com/

Only mention them because you get a lot of sub for the money, and they put out excellent subs.
Not to mention I own 3 of their XV-15 subs (fanboy biggrin.gif)

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post #5 of 13 Old 04-28-2013, 06:50 PM
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I agree with Vardo, I dont think the ML sub is worth the money. You said looks were important so that may be the deciding factor but that PSA sub or the SVS pb 12, would offer much better performance , not only louder and deeper but I should be much cleaner and tighter. I have never heard In-walls that were positioned properly so I cant comment how good they can sound. If its possible to swing I would look at wall mounting a speaker, but if thats not possible then the in-walls will probably be the best route.
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post #6 of 13 Old 04-29-2013, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vardo View Post

As far as a sub, I would forget Martin Logan or Triad,

Why forget Triad subs? They are one of the better subs on the market and have been tested and reviewed as such. They are even better now that they have DSP.
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post #7 of 13 Old 04-29-2013, 04:45 AM
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If he has room for placing subwoofers, I wouldn't even think about in-wall subs. Their performance does even come close, and he more options.
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post #8 of 13 Old 04-29-2013, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ifor View Post

Why forget Triad subs? They are one of the better subs on the market and have been tested and reviewed as such. They are even better now that they have DSP.

Martin Logan and Triad specialize in making "fine speakers"....not subs. Sure their subs may be well reviewed audio mags,
but they pay enormous amounts for advertising to these audio mags. So they get great reviews on their speakers and subs in Stereophile, Sound and Vision, and such.
Triad makes good subs, just not considered the best.

Companies like SVS, Power Sound Audio, Seaton, (well Mark S makes speakers also), Velodyne, HSU specialize in making subs....and do it well
(especially for the money paid).

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post #9 of 13 Old 04-30-2013, 06:02 AM
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^^^Looks like the op disappeared. But his thought process is the same as most newbies, thinking that his sub has to match the mains, as far as being the same brand. Of coarse, the only speakers that have to match are the LCRs, with the surrounds at least being similar, although identical is better.
Looking at M-L subs and their prices, I would not buy them.
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post #10 of 13 Old 05-02-2013, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vardo View Post

Martin Logan and Triad specialize in making "fine speakers"....not subs. Sure their subs may be well reviewed audio mags,
but they pay enormous amounts for advertising to these audio mags. So they get great reviews on their speakers and subs in Stereophile, Sound and Vision, and such.
Triad makes good subs, just not considered the best.

Companies like SVS, Power Sound Audio, Seaton, (well Mark S makes speakers also), Velodyne, HSU specialize in making subs....and do it well
(especially for the money paid).

vardo

This is funny because Triad doesn't advertise, or if they do, it's miniscule. lol. FAIL
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post #11 of 13 Old 05-02-2013, 07:45 PM
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You could be right ifor. I guess it's a FAIL. Funny because I could swear that I have seen Triad ad's...
I got a gift subscription(s) to Stereophile, Home Theater Magazine, and Sound and Vision from my sister
in law last Christmas, and as you say the ads I saw were probably miniscule.

They do however occasionally have reviews.....http://www.hometheater.com/content/triad-inroom-silver-speaker-system

Great speakers that I have a lot of respect for. I guess they don't need ads, they sell by reputation.

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post #12 of 13 Old 05-03-2013, 12:52 AM
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They sell mostly due to the custom installer.

They don't have very many displaying dealers as I was one of them a few years ago and they said I was one of the largest, if not the largest, displaying dealer. We had Bronze LCR in walls, Platinum LCR's, Gold LCR's, Micro 3.0 on-wall LCR soundbar w/ Bronze surrounds and Bronze subs and a complete in-ceiling Silver surround system with dual in-wall subs. I guess we did have a lot back then. Now it is all about ordering what is needed.
Our largest Triad sale was a full Platinum system with 4 surrounds and 4 Platinum subs.

They have been well regarded by almost everyone, which is quite an accomplishment to say the least.

You don't have to be a Triad sub fan, as there are a lot of independent companies that only do subwoofers. A lot of them are also ID as well. I have a Velodyne sub sitting in my place and I am happy with it but when it goes, I will look at the Bronze DSP sub to replace it.

Here is the latest review on them:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/subwoofers/subwoofers-reviews/triad-gold-monitors-and-silver-subwoofer/all-pages.html



p.s. I sound like such a fanboy, don't i?
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post #13 of 13 Old 05-03-2013, 03:38 PM
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ifor.....you don't sound like a fanboy at all but if you are I can certainly see why. One of the largest displaying dealer's for Triad is something to be proud of.

I've always had a very large amount of respect for Triad speakers. Some years ago I read a review of Triad in wall Golds,
and was quite impressed. Wish I had the money back then to get Triad speakers.

I even read the Triad owners thread here on AVS from time to time, Paul Scarpeli's knowledge base of Triad speakers
is remarkable. I enjoy reading his posts. He's retired now, but is still a regular poster in the thread.

I've got a dedicated home theater now (kids moved out, so that leaves a spare room) tongue.gif
Sonus Faber guy with Sonus Faber Toy 5.0 speaker system and 3 Power Sound Audio XV-15 subs.
The subs were my latest purchase, so presently a PSA fanboy.... biggrin.gif
The Sonus Faber Toys are money wise at the bottom of the food chain, but still not cheap.
The towers are very reminiscent of the Sonus Grand Piano speakers of some years ago...
just smaller, so the bass rolls off about 10hz sooner than the Piano's. Don't know why they named them the
"Toys"......I tell people what I have for speakers, and they sort of chuckle when I call them Toys.

That Velodyne sub must be nice, but when it goes, the Triad Bronze DSP sub will be a great replacement.
Hope it lasts, but if not, you have a great substitution in the Bronze! I have a Velodyne ULD-12 in another stereo
only listening room that I bought new, and it's still going strong after 21 years smile.gif

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