20,000 dollar Speaker Budget whats the best value Speakers? New or Used? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 133 Old 04-29-2013, 01:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Greetings AVS Members,




I need some advice on fellow members here who may have experience with either of these speakers. I am not from the USA however based on a lot of information I already have purchased the Danley SH50 for my theatre Rooms. I am now willing to spend up to 20,000 dollars (If Needed) to get the best possible 2 channel stereo music.

Musical Taste: Epic Soundtracks, From Movies, Orchestral, Trip Hop, Jazz, Chill-out music/Lounge music. Others in the home also use the system for their own music which ranges from all sort of crap.


Firstly let me explain about my room size.

My Listening Room is:

8 Meters by 7 Meters and has a height of 3.2 meters.

My Current Setup:
ATI Amplifier 3007
Clayton Audio m300 mono Blocks

Bob Carver Amplifier 305

Danley SH50 & SH69 and SH100

Seaton Subwoofer (Dual Subs)

Purity Audio Ultra Series Pre-amp

Onkyo PRSC5509 Processing (Looking to upgrade soon)


I will be purchasing a NEW Dac either the Bekeley Audio or the PS Audio Perfect Wave. Not sure which one to get but at the moment wanted to focus on the speakers purchase.

I am Interested in the following user experiences or comparison.

Legacy Audio Whisper XD
Salk Sound Scape 12
B&W 802
Magico Q5 (Used)
Wilson Audio
Ariel Acoustics

Home Theatre: Onkyo PR SC 5509, ATI 3007 Danley SH50, Danley SH69, Danley SH100 (Rear), Seaton Subwoofer X 2, Custom Made Acoustic Panels and Bass Traps.

2 Channel System: Philharmonics 3, GD Audio Master 2 Mono Blocks, GD Audio Master 1 Pre-Amp. Wireworld Eclipse Gold 5 Silver XLR, Clear Day...
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post #2 of 133 Old 04-29-2013, 01:34 AM
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From that list I have only heard Wilson Audio and they were the Alexandria's. They were incredible, the imaging was fantastic but very difficult to justify the price. The B&W 802D are quite highly regarded around here, and the Aerial's get some attention from time to time.

One thing I would like to understand is the comment about the Danley. Is this a different room than the theatre room, does this mean that the towers will be run Full Range? If so I would look for towers that can dig down to 30hz or lower at a -3db point. From the Frequency response of the 800D it looks like they have significant performance down to 24hz at -6 and 20hz at roughly -10 or so which isnt that bad for a tower.

Here is a thread where another individual was considering the 802D, 800D, and Aerial 20T. The Aerial's would probably need to be purchased used becasue their MSRP seems to be just north of $30k.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1223487/new-b-w-800-diamond-vs-aerial-20t-vs
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post #3 of 133 Old 04-29-2013, 02:47 AM
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B&W 800D2, Revel Ultima Salon2, Kef Reference 207/2 assuming 2.0.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, DBP 2010, Samsung BD-C7900, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650. Sitting still CCM616, Kef...
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post #4 of 133 Old 04-29-2013, 03:23 AM
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I'd look really close at the SS12's, If I had that money.
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post #5 of 133 Old 04-29-2013, 03:45 AM
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revel ultima salon2, thiel cs3.7

i'm so laid back,i'm laid out
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post #6 of 133 Old 04-29-2013, 05:05 AM
 
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Hi Bassfeen

Couple of different, non-US options to check out. Powered, active, full range 4-ways. Sell those monoblocks. smile.gifsmile.gif


SGR Audio CX4F. Price: ~A$10 000/pair.




Lenard Audio Sarabande. Price: on application

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post #7 of 133 Old 04-29-2013, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

B&W 800D2, Revel Ultima Salon2, Kef Reference 207/2 assuming 2.0.

+ 1

KEF Reference, Revel Ultima, B&W Diamond.

Also the Linkwitz Orion dipole speakers.
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post #8 of 133 Old 04-29-2013, 07:43 AM
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I don't have any specific suggestions since what I like and what you like may be completely different, but, generally speaking I've found that spending in excess of say $5,000 for fronts yields a very small improvement in sound quality. What you typically pay for is a more impressive looking speaker than a better sounding one.
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post #9 of 133 Old 04-29-2013, 02:27 PM
 
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Not that impressive looking compared to the finish on some these speakers but a great sounding speaker I'd look at the Genelec 8260.

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post #10 of 133 Old 04-29-2013, 03:14 PM
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I really liked the Salk SS8s. I imagine the SS12s are even more impressive, although their look is not for everyone.

Another I heard at RMAF last year was the Von Schweikert VR-44. It is right in that price range and comes in passive or active versions.

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post #11 of 133 Old 04-29-2013, 03:17 PM
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I would look for a gently used pair of Wilson Sasha speakers.
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post #12 of 133 Old 04-29-2013, 04:00 PM
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Easy, JTR Noesis 212HT's and put 14K back in the bank.
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post #13 of 133 Old 04-29-2013, 05:25 PM
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There's some pretty amazing speakers in this thread http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/forum-announcements-news/66134-axpona-2013-official-show-report-joe-alexander-hts.html from the 2013 Axpona Art show that would be within your budget. It's a probably a worth while read for you.

If I was spending anything north of 10 grand for a 2 channel setup I would atleast try to audition a pair of Seaton Catalyst 12C's, I believe they won an award at this show for best speaker at a certain price level I just can't remember what price that was.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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post #14 of 133 Old 04-29-2013, 06:10 PM
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Where are you located (I am guessing Europe)? Based on your application, I would say go demo at some high end audio stores near you. Buy the ones you like the best from your list above, and make sure they have a good return policy in case they don't sound as good at your home.

Sounds like you have the home theater covered, 2 channel full range is another story smile.gif
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post #15 of 133 Old 04-30-2013, 02:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the suggestion I will Look Into the Salons 2 and some others.

Just wanted to know if anyone here has compared the Legacy Audio against B&W and Kef. Those drivers are big and the setup of the speaker looks good using a active crossover.

The SH50 are staying for the Theatre room for Sure. I have already got 3 units of JTR 888 Sealed version. To be honest i bought them based on reviews on this forum and was totally disappointed with its performance, the upper range was so rough that listening to music was like hearing a cat scream all day long. No offense they are good speakers they go loud and clear at high volumes but the did perform so well with my setup. The SH50 on the other hands performs very well but is not refined enough on the top end. For HT Duties its fine but for music its not acceptable.

I know there is allot of salk fans on this thread but I’m curious about legacy.

Home Theatre: Onkyo PR SC 5509, ATI 3007 Danley SH50, Danley SH69, Danley SH100 (Rear), Seaton Subwoofer X 2, Custom Made Acoustic Panels and Bass Traps.

2 Channel System: Philharmonics 3, GD Audio Master 2 Mono Blocks, GD Audio Master 1 Pre-Amp. Wireworld Eclipse Gold 5 Silver XLR, Clear Day...
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post #16 of 133 Old 04-30-2013, 02:53 AM - Thread Starter
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How would the Vandersteen Speakers compare to B&W and Kef?

Home Theatre: Onkyo PR SC 5509, ATI 3007 Danley SH50, Danley SH69, Danley SH100 (Rear), Seaton Subwoofer X 2, Custom Made Acoustic Panels and Bass Traps.

2 Channel System: Philharmonics 3, GD Audio Master 2 Mono Blocks, GD Audio Master 1 Pre-Amp. Wireworld Eclipse Gold 5 Silver XLR, Clear Day...
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post #17 of 133 Old 04-30-2013, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassfeen View Post

Thanks for the suggestion I will Look Into the Salons 2 and some others.

Just wanted to know if anyone here has compared the Legacy Audio against B&W and Kef. Those drivers are big and the setup of the speaker looks good using a active crossover.

The SH50 are staying for the Theatre room for Sure. I have already got 3 units of JTR 888 Sealed version. To be honest i bought them based on reviews on this forum and was totally disappointed with its performance, the upper range was so rough that listening to music was like hearing a cat scream all day long. No offense they are good speakers they go loud and clear at high volumes but the did perform so well with my setup. The SH50 on the other hands performs very well but is not refined enough on the top end. For HT Duties its fine but for music its not acceptable.

I know there is allot of salk fans on this thread but I’m curious about legacy.

I have not personally heard any horn speakers with a refined top end, but that could just be me.
Maybe we have similar hearing?
For refined top end, you will probably like a speaker with this measurement profile: KEF 201/2.
Pay particular attention to the distortion levels (or lack of) in this measurement:

To me, that is simply amazing.

Here are measurements for Revel Salon 2 and PSB Synchrony One which both have extremely low distortion in the upper octaves. With your budget, the Salon2 is probably a better fit.
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post #18 of 133 Old 04-30-2013, 03:30 AM
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Ever get to Slough?

 

http://www.artisanaudio.co.uk/index.html

 

Give Ralph a call, tell him Richard sent ya

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post #19 of 133 Old 04-30-2013, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassfeen View Post

I have already got 3 units of JTR 888 Sealed version. To be honest i bought them based on reviews on this forum and was totally disappointed with its performance, the upper range was so rough that listening to music was like hearing a cat scream all day long.

I think your best bet is the Revel Salon2, KEF 207/2, & Linkwitz Orion since they have outstanding speaker measurements, unlike some speakers with either poor measurements or NO MEASUREMENTS AT ALL.

Having the best measurements still won't guarantee you will love the sound of the speakers, but your odds are much better than with poor measurements & no measurements at all.

It appears we both have the Philharmonic 3 speakers. They will sound extremely similar to the Salk Soundscape 12 (SS12 will have slightly more bass). One member who has heard both the Phil2 & SS10 actually preferred the Phil2's BG Neo8 midrange over his SS10's Accuton midrange.

What do you think of your Phil3 (happy with them) ?
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post #20 of 133 Old 04-30-2013, 04:33 AM
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Revel Ultima Salon 2 will probably end up being one of if not the best measuring speakers in its price class.
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post #21 of 133 Old 04-30-2013, 04:42 AM
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The Aerial 7T's are worth a listen.smile.gif
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post #22 of 133 Old 04-30-2013, 04:43 AM
 
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Also check out the Genelec 8260 if you would like excellent measurements both on and off axis.  They have their measurements in the manual.  They are the best speakers I have measured and I have measured some of the others mentioned.  Sound stage at least does a decent set of measurments that are useful. If you don't mind the aesthetics they are great speakers, they are a company about sound and not about pretty finishes.

 

  Either way they all the speakers mentioned are worth a listen to see what you like.  If possible see if you can listen in your room because the environment plays such a big role in the sound.

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post #23 of 133 Old 04-30-2013, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

Also check out the Genelec 8260 if you would like excellent measurements both on and off axis.  They have their measurements in the manual.  They are the best speakers I have measured and I have measured some of the others mentioned.  Sound stage at least does a decent set of measurments that are useful. If you don't mind the aesthetics they are great speakers, they are a company about sound and not about pretty finishes.

  Either way they all the speakers mentioned are worth a listen to see what you like.  If possible see if you can listen in your room because the environment plays such a big role in the sound.

Any independent 3rd party measurements of the Genelec?

I'm always interested, but only if they have independent 3rd party measurements.
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post #24 of 133 Old 04-30-2013, 08:24 AM
 
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I don't know of any 3rd party measurements, there might be some in the pro magazines and sources.  It is not uncommon for pro speakers to give a good set of measurements though. Where in the consumer world measurements aren't as important as marketing.  Most decent pro speakers have measurements available or upon request.  Here is another excellent speaker that provides measurements. Again it is not a pretty speaker for the home.

http://www.neumann-kh-line.com/neumann-kh/home_en.nsf/root/prof-monitoring_studio-monitors_midfield-monitors_O410#

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post #25 of 133 Old 04-30-2013, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassfeen View Post

Greetings AVS Members,


I am Interested in the following user experiences or comparison.

Legacy Audio Whisper XD
Salk Sound Scape 12
B&W 802
Magico Q5 (Used)
Wilson Audio
Ariel Acoustics

If I had your budget and room there's no question I would get the first item on your list: the Legacy Audio Whisper XD.

It does it all - dynamics, refinement, tone, truly full range and huge sound, imaging, large sweet spot, relatively room independent (DSP unit included), high WAF despite their size. Apparently the price includes a Legacy rep coming in and setting it up. You've probably read this review but dang it's something I could read every year just as a treat. smile.gif

http://www.stereomojo.com/Legacy%20WhisperXD%20Review.htm/LegacyWhisperXDReview.htm

Mark
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post #26 of 133 Old 04-30-2013, 09:33 AM
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Man those Legacy Audio Whisper XD look pretty awesome.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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post #27 of 133 Old 04-30-2013, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post


What do you think of your Phil3 (happy with them) ? I assume they sound much better than JTR?
There was a member at the NE GTG and he has the Phil 2's and guess what he wants to move into??
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post #28 of 133 Old 04-30-2013, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Yeah, well, at least his Phil2 don't sound like: eek.gif

Are you serious? Triple 8's sound NOTHING like the Noesis 212HT's. Have you even bothered to read any of the current two GTG threads?
At this point you're just making yourself look silly by making a comment like that.

read this thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/1460712/central-iowa-spring-audio-gtg-jtr-bamberg-seaton-salk-gr-research/240#post_23262468 and tell me where anyone thinks the JTR Noesis sound like a cat screaming.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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post #29 of 133 Old 04-30-2013, 11:02 AM
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Maybe something like this from Selah Audio:


http://www.selahaudio.com/id282.html


That array is RAAL ribbon tweeters, so the highs should be more smooth and not "cat screaming" like.

Also, from what I understand, Rick from Selah is willing to custom make a speaker to meet your specifications. So might want to shoot him an email and see what he can do for you.


(note: I have not heard any of his stuff as it is out of my price range, but I have only seen/read very positive things about Selah Audio products)
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post #30 of 133 Old 04-30-2013, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goride View Post

Maybe something like this from Selah Audio:


http://www.selahaudio.com/id282.html


That array is RAAL ribbon tweeters, so the highs should be more smooth and not "cat screaming" like.

Also, from what I understand, Rick from Selah is willing to custom make a speaker to meet your specifications. So might want to shoot him an email and see what he can do for you.


(note: I have not heard any of his stuff as it is out of my price range, but I have only seen/read very positive things about Selah Audio products)

Wow, that's a sexy looking speakers.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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