PSB Image T6 or PSB Imagine B speakers for a city apartment? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 05-02-2013, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I recently purchased PSB Image T6 speakers and I have them hooked up to a pioneer 1020K receiver. My living room/kitchen area is roughly 25x15, see the image below. The two black marks are where my speakers currently are.

Anyways, my neighbor was bothered by the bass from my Image T6 speakers when I had the receiver volume at -15db late at night. He said he couldn't hear the music, just the bass. The neighbor's bedroom is to the right of this pic, so the bass is traveling backwards through 2 walls and reaching him.

I've purchased 2 Auralex subdudes and they are coming in the mail, but this has me wondering if I'd just be better off with PSB Imagine B speakers for my room size than PSB Image T6. It seems that I would be able to play the PSB Imagine B speakers at a higher volume without worrying about the bass as much, as all the neighbor can hear is the bass. This could be a better alternative than not being able to play the music as loud but having rumbling bass. Currently through my receiver I have the bass turned down -6db (after getting the complaint), which obviously takes away from the true sound of the PSB Image T6. Also it seems that the PSB Image T6 doesn't sound as great at relatively low volume levels (below -25db) and is good but not great at around -22db, suggesting maybe the bookshelf turned up to a higher db would be more crisp. Also the Imagine series is a higher end line thant he Image series.

I primarily play electronic/techno music. Also I purchased these speakers from saturday audio exchange, so they have a lot of PSB speakers in stock I could exchange with (paid $1050 before tax for the PSB T6 and would be open to spending more). Let me know what you guys think. Thanks

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post #2 of 15 Old 05-02-2013, 12:28 PM
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Switch to headphones late at night? I'd wait to see if the Subdudes help ( I use these, too) and go from there.
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post #3 of 15 Old 05-02-2013, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by someoledude View Post

I'd wait to see if the Subdudes help
They will...if you have enough of them to completely cover the floor, and then you pour six inches of concrete on top of them. Otherwise no, what goes through the floor is 100% acoustically sourced and won't be affected in the least by subduds.
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The neighbor's bedroom is to the right of this pic, so the bass is traveling backwards through 2 walls and reaching him.
It's actually passing directly through the living room floor and then making its way to him. Low frequencies are only stopped by mass, and a lot of it. Your options are probably to turn it way down, use phones, or move to a house.

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post #4 of 15 Old 05-02-2013, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I have good headphones. Your post didn't address my question on Imagine B vs Image T6. Thanks
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post #5 of 15 Old 05-02-2013, 01:39 PM
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For the type of music you say you listen to, I don't think the Imagine B would be significantly better. But you are going to have poor-quality sound as long as you have your current receiver IMO.

As for the lack of clarity in the sound...it's a Pioneer! You are asking the wrong question. You are blaming a pair of excellent speakers for lack of clarity, when it is the receiver that is the problem. The basic amplifier design of that receiver is very poor IMO. It has cheap low-quality class D pulse modulation amplifiers, which suck.

IMO Pioneer and Yamaha have very poor-sounding amplifiers, and using a Pioneer receiver with the T6 speakers is just wasting the potential of the speakers. ANY high-quality speaker will sound awful with that receiver. Garbage in, garbage out!!!

You will get MUCH better sound quality with a Harman-Kardon 2650 receiver IMO, and then you won't need to turn it up so loud to be able to hear something. THAT is where you want to put your money!!! YOU HAVE excellent speakers now!

Harman-Kardon and Cambridge Audio have much better-designed power supplies and amplifiers and sound way better than Pioneer, Yamaha, and Sony. They are the only receivers I will recommend for use with high-quality speakers like you have.

I had the T6 speakers for two years, and they sounded wonderful at any volume level; but I was using a very high-quality integrated amplifier. not a Pioneer receiver (ugh).
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post #6 of 15 Old 05-02-2013, 04:44 PM
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^^What in the world does that have to do with the issue at hand??? rolleyes.gif

So a Harman-Kardon or Cambridge receiver will allow him to turn it up late at night but not disturb his neighbors?? rolleyes.gifrolleyes.gif

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post #7 of 15 Old 05-02-2013, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beaveav View Post

^^What in the world does that have to do with the issue at hand??? rolleyes.gif

So a Harman-Kardon or Cambridge receiver will allow him to turn it up late at night but not disturb his neighbors?? rolleyes.gifrolleyes.gif

Haha I like his feedback and I'll look into the cost benefit of better receiver and would like suggestions if anyone has one including you!

But yea comments on image t6 vs imagine b for my room size and bass issue would be great.
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post #8 of 15 Old 05-02-2013, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildeproof View Post

Haha I like his feedback and I'll look into the cost benefit of better receiver and would like suggestions if anyone has one including you!

But yea comments on image t6 vs imagine b for my room size and bass issue would be great.

His feedback has nothing to do with your original post.
It seems like he didn't even read what you posted and made assumptions based on your thread title.

Changing receivers wouldn't do anything for your issue, nor would it make your speakers sound better.
Also, I think it is a waste of time to change speakers if all you need is to EQ the bass away.
The only difference between your speakers and bookshelf is the amount of bass, the F3 frequency.

It sounds like all you need to do is make some changes in the settings of your receiver.
There is NOTHING you can do to maintain the volume of bass and prevent your neighbor from complaining besides room treatment.

I respectfully disagree with Bill about mass.
Do some research on bomb shockwave and truck bedliners.
There are two methods of stopping a shockwave (similar to acoustic energy), increase mass or absorb the energy.
Check the video below.
http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/bedlam-proof-bedliner-aftershow/puah3cd?cpkey=7808003e-f5e5-403c-96ce-38a47f755b9d||||
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post #9 of 15 Old 05-02-2013, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

As for the lack of clarity in the sound...it's a Pioneer!... It has cheap low-quality class D pulse modulation amplifiers, which suck.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Pioneer+Receivers/VSX-1020-K
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

Harman-Kardon and Cambridge Audio have much better-designed power supplies and amplifiers

Can you explain the power supply design for the new models?

AVR 1700 Weight: 12.8 lb (5.8kg)
http://www.harmankardon.com/resources/Brands/harmankardon/Products/ProductRelatedDocuments/en-US/QuickSpecs/AVR1700_SS_EN.pdf

AVR 2700 Weight: 16.9 lb (7.7kg)
http://www.harmankardon.com/resources/Brands/harmankardon/Products/ProductRelatedDocuments/en-US/QuickSpecs/AVR2700_SS_EN.pdf

AVR 3700 Weight: 17.6 lb (8kg)
http://www.harmankardon.com/resources/Brands/harmankardon/Products/ProductRelatedDocuments/en-US/QuickSpecs/AVR3700_SS_EN.pdf
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post #10 of 15 Old 05-02-2013, 08:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post

Changing receivers wouldn't do anything for your issue, nor would it make your speakers sound better.
Also, I think it is a waste of time to change speakers if all you need is to EQ the bass away.
The only difference between your speakers and bookshelf is the amount of bass, the F3 frequency.
The Imagine B line is a higher PSB line than the Image T6. I'd assume the treble or highs are better for the Imagine B?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post

It sounds like all you need to do is make some changes in the settings of your receiver.
There is NOTHING you can do to maintain the volume of bass and prevent your neighbor from complaining besides room treatment.

In my pioneer 1020k I went and adjusted the bass down by -6kb. Is that the most I can adjust it down? Or do receivers typically allow you to do more? Thanks for the help checking the video now.
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post #11 of 15 Old 05-02-2013, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildeproof View Post

The Imagine B line is a higher PSB line than the Image T6. I'd assume the treble or highs are better for the Imagine B?
In my pioneer 1020k I went and adjusted the bass down by -6kb. Is that the most I can adjust it down? Or do receivers typically allow you to do more? Thanks for the help checking the video now.
If you could exchange the speakers with no fee, you could give the bookshelf speakers a shot. You would most likely still have to EQ the bass away. I think your pioneer can go lower. I'm not to familiar with them to be honest as I use a Denon. The problem with no bass though is the type of music you listen to would not sound very good. Try it out and see how you like it.
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post #12 of 15 Old 05-03-2013, 01:17 AM
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In theory couldnt you just increase everything but the bass and keep the bass at -6. This could create more of a gap between the frequencies. The only problem I am seeing is that most of the EQ's in the avr are what 7-11 bands? Is it possible to get this to work properly?
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post #13 of 15 Old 05-03-2013, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post

His feedback has nothing to do with your original post.
It seems like he didn't even read what you posted and made assumptions based on your thread title.

+1 his post has nothing to do with solving your problem. Changing brands of receivers is the LAST thing I'd try

I would try the bookshelf route first

However.....there's one interesting development in receivers that is supposed to directly address your problem. Audyssey Low Frequency Control.... http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/audyssey-lfc

This feature is only available on the very high end models, so I don't think it's worth it
Products that have it: http://www.audyssey.com/products?tid%5B%5D=33&pid=All&ptype=5&=Search+Products

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post #14 of 15 Old 05-03-2013, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Does it matter that the t6 has 4-6 ohm and I think my pioneer 1020k is 8 ohm (it lists 6 ohm too but that might be surround sound?)
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post #15 of 15 Old 05-03-2013, 11:31 PM
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It doesnt matter for the problem you are describing. All it means is that you shouldnt crank the volume all the way up because it could damage the avr. Assuming the impedance dips low.
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