Center channel feels like its missing something. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 05-11-2013, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I have have all Klipsch speakers for my surround system, but just for some reason the center channel feels like its missing something. I have the RC-62 as my center, but during movies it just seems to be lacking something, I have ran Audessy on my Onkyo 818 receiver, but just the quick setup, I didnt go through the full process of measuring as my room isnt done yet. I turned the center up a bit after Audessy to try and compensate for it.
It almost feels like it would sound better if it were 2 separate speakers. I dont know how to explain it. It feels like it is lacking a "fullness" Anybody know what I can look for in my settings, or has anybody else experienced the same thing with their center?

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post #2 of 25 Old 05-11-2013, 09:20 AM
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Whats your crossover settings? It could be crossed way to high. Check it and set it for 70 or 80hrz. I have the same receiver but I don't have any issues with my center channel.
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post #3 of 25 Old 05-11-2013, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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I will go fire it all up now and see what its set at, I dont remember what Audessy said after it was done running.

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post #4 of 25 Old 05-11-2013, 10:19 AM
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Try disable the audyssey and see how it sound.
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post #5 of 25 Old 05-11-2013, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Audessy had my center channel crossover at 50hz for some reason, and set to -7db, I set all my speakers to 80hz (thx) in the menu, and turned up the center channel to -3db, it sounds better, but still doesnt sound quite right. It almost sounds as if the center channel is coming out of one single spot, maybe i'm just use to having sound come from everywhere like the 5.1 setup in my living room. The voice comes out of all the speakers when I watch tv whereas movies in the theater room the voice comes out of only the center channel.

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post #6 of 25 Old 05-11-2013, 10:51 AM
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Sounds like your living room may be the one that is misconfigured. In general, you should expect the majority of dialog to come from the center channel only.
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post #7 of 25 Old 05-11-2013, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingblayde View Post

The voice comes out of all the speakers when I watch tv whereas movies in the theater room the voice comes out of only the center channel.

Movies are mixed to have the voices come from the center channel to "center" them with the screen. It sounds like you run All Channel Stereo when you watch TV? If you have a cable box or hd the audio should come as Dolby 5.1 and place the voices in the center channel with effects going to the rest of the speakers, with the occasional voice coming from left or right mains.

Voices should not come from all the speakers like that. While theres really no right or wrong way, the most accepted is voices come from the center channel not all of the speakers.
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post #8 of 25 Old 05-11-2013, 11:42 AM
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I sort is had the same problem. My center channel was on the wall. I moved It closer to me and put it on a stand and boom if sounded a little better. So maybe placement is the problem.
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post #9 of 25 Old 05-11-2013, 11:50 AM
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If the voice is comming from one spot, i think thats what we want. I really dont thing you want surround effect on voices.
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post #10 of 25 Old 05-11-2013, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicardoJoa View Post

If the voice is comming from one spot, i think thats what we want. I really dont thing you want surround effect on voices.

I'm assuming he means that it sounds too localized, that it sounds separated from the rest of the system, if I read the OP's post right.
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post #11 of 25 Old 05-11-2013, 07:02 PM
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The reason Audyssey set the center channel to -7 because the RC-62 has a sensitivity of 98db! Which is a good thing. Maybe you're not used to the directional sound coming from the horn? Most speakers use a dome tweeter which would have a more diffused sound.

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post #12 of 25 Old 05-11-2013, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingblayde View Post

The voice comes out of all the speakers when I watch tv
They shouldn't. If they do that indicates improper decoding.

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post #13 of 25 Old 05-11-2013, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingblayde View Post

I have have all Klipsch speakers for my surround system, but just for some reason the center channel feels like its missing something. I have the RC-62 as my center, but during movies it just seems to be lacking something, I have ran Audessy on my Onkyo 818 receiver, but just the quick setup, I didnt go through the full process of measuring as my room isnt done yet. I turned the center up a bit after Audessy to try and compensate for it.
It almost feels like it would sound better if it were 2 separate speakers. I dont know how to explain it. It feels like it is lacking a "fullness" Anybody know what I can look for in my settings, or has anybody else experienced the same thing with their center?

Howdy Sir Windsor, Sir Detroit here, well just outside of Detroit in Oak Park...

Reading this post, one of the things I see that is wrong, is doing the quick setup. To get the best out of your AVR and audyssey is to do all of the 8 spots in your calibration. I understand your reason for the quick setup, but believe me, it will make a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingblayde View Post

Audessy had my center channel crossover at 50hz for some reason, and set to -7db, I set all my speakers to 80hz (thx) in the menu, and turned up the center channel to -3db, it sounds better, but still doesnt sound quite right. It almost sounds as if the center channel is coming out of one single spot, maybe i'm just use to having sound come from everywhere like the 5.1 setup in my living room. The voice comes out of all the speakers when I watch tv whereas movies in the theater room the voice comes out of only the center channel.

When you mentioned the voices comes out of all the speakers, there is nothing wrong with that, unless it’s the exact same things coming from all of them and not moving around with an effect.
If all the speakers have the same voice coming from it, then you are not using a 5.1 surround, you are just taking a two channel and making it come out of all the speakers, which isn’t any surround effect at all. To fix that, you have to select a different soundfield besides “All Ch”

Having it set to 50hz was a little strange, because your FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 57Hz-24KHz ± 3dB, but this could be because of the quick setup you mentioned before.


You mentioned you changed all of your speakers to 80hz, I am wondering if they were all below 80hz and your raised them to 80hz, and not the other way as to where you lowered any of them to 80hz. If you lowered any of them to 80hz, then that is not good to do with audyssey.
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post #14 of 25 Old 05-12-2013, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HAMP568 View Post

Howdy Sir Windsor, Sir Detroit here, well just outside of Detroit in Oak Park...

You mentioned you changed all of your speakers to 80hz, I am wondering if they were all below 80hz and your raised them to 80hz,

Hey!, Youre not far from me Eh!? probably 20 minute drive. Im just outside Windsor in Lasalle by the big Horse Racetrack and Casino, (that is now closed)

I actually lowered them to 80hz, Audessy had them set at 110. I have the RB-61 II's for fronts (FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 45Hz-24KHz ± 3dB)
and RS-42's for surrounds (FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 62Hz-24KHz ± 3dB)
I have dual PSA XV-15 subs so I figured they can more than handle anything I need below 80hz. Or do I overlap the crossovers a bit, set the subs at 80, and the speakers at 70?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunan View Post

I'm assuming he means that it sounds too localized, that it sounds separated from the rest of the system, if I read the OP's post right.

YES! I think thats what I'm trying to say lol. It just doesnt sound like it "fits" with the rest of the audio for some reason. When I finally get off my backside and finish the room I will definitely run the full 8 position Audessy. OR, should I run the full Audessy just for S&G's even though there is no carpet, or drywall up yet? I can always reset it back to default or re-run it when I get the room done.

Thanks for the replies guys! smile.gif

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post #15 of 25 Old 05-12-2013, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

They shouldn't. If they do that indicates improper decoding.

I actually do this on purpose, I set the Yamaha in my living room to run at 5Ch Enhancer, I prefer to watch hockey or Disc Channel with the sound coming out all the speakers. It fills the room nicer for anybody else whos watching.

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post #16 of 25 Old 05-12-2013, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingblayde View Post

Hey!, Youre not far from me Eh!? probably 20 minute drive. Im just outside Windsor in Lasalle by the big Horse Racetrack and Casino, (that is now closed)

I actually lowered them to 80hz, Audessy had them set at 110. I have the RB-61 II's for fronts (FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 45Hz-24KHz ± 3dB)
According to Page 60 of the manual for your receiver, ( http://www.intl.onkyo.com/downloads/manuals/pdf/tx-nr818_manual_e.pdf ), you don't have a 110 Hz setting for your CC. You have 100 and 120 Hz. Please clarify which setting Audyssey used.

If Audyssey set the crossover to 120 Hz, that means it measured the CC's -3 dB point at somewhere between 100 and 120 Hz. In spite of the "spec'd" response to 45 Hz, in your room, the CC is not effectively outputting anything below about 100 Hz. This could happen if the CC is placed so the bass gets little room reinforcement, out, away from the wall behind it and well away from the side walls. If you lowered the crossover, what you're "missing" is the response from 80 Hz to 120 Hz. I suggest you either reset the crossover to 120 Hz, or move the CC so it gets more room reinforcement, (i.e., move it closer to the room boundaries, particularly, the wall behind it.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingblayde View Post

I have dual PSA XV-15 subs so I figured they can more than handle anything I need below 80hz. Or do I overlap the crossovers a bit, set the subs at 80, and the speakers at 70?
Turn the LPF on the sub all the way up, or disable it if possible. You don't want to "cascade" filters. That could be another part of your problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingblayde View Post

YES! I think thats what I'm trying to say lol. It just doesnt sound like it "fits" with the rest of the audio for some reason. When I finally get off my backside and finish the room I will definitely run the full 8 position Audessy. OR, should I run the full Audessy just for S&G's even though there is no carpet, or drywall up yet? I can always reset it back to default or re-run it when I get the room done.

Thanks for the replies guys! smile.gif
Yes, run the full 8-position Audyssey routine. Then do NOT lower the crossovers.

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post #17 of 25 Old 05-12-2013, 08:30 AM
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RB-61 II L/R (purple trace)
RC-62 II center channel (green trace)



http://www.hometheater.com/content/klipsch-reference-rb-61-ii-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures
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post #18 of 25 Old 05-12-2013, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingblayde View Post


Hey!, Youre not far from me Eh!? probably 20 minute drive. Im just outside Windsor in Lasalle by the big Horse Racetrack and Casino, (that is now closed)

I actually lowered them to 80hz, Audessy had them set at 110. I have the RB-61 II's for fronts (FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 45Hz-24KHz ± 3dB)
and RS-42's for surrounds (FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 62Hz-24KHz ± 3dB)

 

NEVER lower the crossover Audyssey has set. If you lower the crossover Audyssey has set you will be left with a hole in the freq response no matter what your speakers are rated for.

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post #19 of 25 Old 05-12-2013, 01:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

NEVER lower the crossover Audyssey has set. If you lower the crossover Audyssey has set you will be left with a hole in the freq response no matter what your speakers are rated for.
This is not true. Audyssey themselves suggest the crossovers to be set at 80... wink.gif
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post #20 of 25 Old 05-12-2013, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

This is not true. Audyssey themselves suggest the crossovers to be set at 80... wink.gif
Not if it means *lowering* the crossover.

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post #21 of 25 Old 05-12-2013, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Im going to have to dig the old camera tripod out, put the mic on it and run the 8 position setup then, and see what it sets everything to. I coulda swore it said the crossover for the center channel said 110, I must have been mistaken while I was whizzing thru the menus. Either way, I will run the 8 point and see what the settings are.

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post #22 of 25 Old 05-12-2013, 08:57 PM
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Looks like we have almost the same style of setup by using monitors and subs for our HT, and having bi/di-pole for surrounds. Of course we are using totally different Manufacture of brands, but letting audyessy take care of it all.

I’m looking forward to reading your results from the 8 point calibration.

I was thinking possibility of us checking each other systems out one day or two?
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post #23 of 25 Old 05-12-2013, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

This is not true. Audyssey themselves suggest the crossovers to be set at 80... wink.gif

I've seen this covered by Audyssey reps themselves.

What they mean by placing your crossover to 80 hz, is that if Audyssey sets the crossover lower than 80hz, then raising it to 80hz is just fine. However, if audyssey sets the crossover higher than 80hz, leave it where it is because that's where audyssey measured the -3db point for the speaker in your room. Lowering it to 80hz will create a "gap" in your frequency range. For example, if Audyssey sets your crossover for your surrounds at 120hz, and you lower it to 80hz, then there is going to be a gap in your frequency range between 120hz where the frequency response starts to drop below -3db, and 80hz where your subwoofer kicks in to create the bass frequencies for those speakers. That's 40hz of sound potentially weakened or even possibly missing from your surrounds or other speakers if they are improperly set up.

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post #24 of 25 Old 05-13-2013, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAMP568 View Post

Looks like we have almost the same style of setup by using monitors and subs for our HT, and having bi/di-pole for surrounds. Of course we are using totally different Manufacture of brands, but letting audyessy take care of it all.

I’m looking forward to reading your results from the 8 point calibration.

I was thinking possibility of us checking each other systems out one day or two?

For sure, I have quite a bit to do to my room to finish it, probably having the projector up is a bad thing, I spend too much time watching instead of working. smile.gif

I would definitely like someone who knows about home theater rooms to come over and give me pointers, do's and don'ts, hell it would be nice if someone could measure or test my room and see what the graphs look like to their trained eye.

I probably wont get to calibrate it till maybe Thursday. I have a buncha stuff to do this week after work.

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post #25 of 25 Old 05-13-2013, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slingblayde View Post

For sure, I have quite a bit to do to my room to finish it, probably having the projector up is a bad thing, I spend too much time watching instead of working. smile.gif

I would definitely like someone who knows about home theater rooms to come over and give me pointers, do's and don'ts, hell it would be nice if someone could measure or test my room and see what the graphs look like to their trained eye.

I probably wont get to calibrate it till maybe Thursday. I have a buncha stuff to do this week after work.

I'm not a pro at this, but I have researched plenty over the years. I haven't gotten into the measurements and graphs just yet. I'm just getting into building my own acoustic panels, just haven't decided on which DIY I want to try first.

If you seen my pics from the link below, I'm always on that site ( bluray.com )
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