In-Ceiling Speakers for Music and Movies - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 58 Old 05-22-2013, 05:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

If its Revel its usually all good. The one exception to Revel is the Gem2 speaker. It is a very good speaker, but JBL PT800 is almost identical in design and much cheaper. In fact the Gem2 was designed based on the PT800. But that is OT.

I have not even seen prices for the LCR8. I think I did see a review a few months back, but I don't remember where.
And looking at your new drawing, I can say my thoughts towards the LCR8 would be the right choice with those two doors to either side.

I found the LCR 8 at digitalcraze for $600

The only thing that confuses me is that it doesnt seem to have any artificial separation of the channels like most soundbars. So isnt this soundbar not any different then me just getting three in walls and putting them in a row?
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post #32 of 58 Old 05-22-2013, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by prnoct90 View Post

I found the LCR 8 at digitalcraze for $600

The only thing that confuses me is that it doesnt seem to have any artificial separation of the channels like most soundbars. So isnt this soundbar not any different then me just getting three in walls and putting them in a row?

The problem with using LCR in-walls on your setup is they will be only about 40" from L~R. They are not designed to be placed that close. The LCR8 is. And probably throws the sound farther to the sides, presenting a larger soundstage.
Plus @ $600 for the LCR8, is that not cheaper than 3 in-walls?

But if you have any doubts, give Revel either a call or email and tell them about your speaker arraignment. Ask them which setup they would recommend.
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post #33 of 58 Old 05-22-2013, 06:10 PM
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I would go with three properly spaced and properly engineered in-ceiling speakers like was discussed earlier in the thread vs a sound bar. The problem with sound bars is they use small drivers and small cabinets. You typically have to crossover your subwoofer in the 120hz range in the real world and you simply lose a ton of dynamics.

I don't usually recommend them unless there is no other option or someone is just looking for something that is an improvement over the TV speakers.
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post #34 of 58 Old 05-22-2013, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Yah, those stupid doors really mess things up
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post #35 of 58 Old 05-22-2013, 06:42 PM
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I have 5 identical in-ceiling speakers in our great room for non-critical tv and music listening. If your tv is mounted fairly high like mine is over a fireplace, you'd be really surprised at how much the fronts feel like they're coming from the tv. It does not feel like sound is coming from overhead, and this is with pretty cheap Yamaha 6.5's with aimable tweeters.
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post #36 of 58 Old 05-22-2013, 11:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Yah, the only thing that sucks about buying this stuff on ebay is that there is no returns
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post #37 of 58 Old 05-23-2013, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by prnoct90 View Post

Yah, the only thing that sucks about buying this stuff on ebay is that there is no returns

Yes, unless there is an issue you are not going to return them, or if you can, there could be a hefty restocking fee.

Of course if you bought them and they did not work out for some reason, you can turnaround and sell them on Ebay and would likely not be out very much money.
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post #38 of 58 Old 05-24-2013, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Just called revel and they said if you use the C763L he recommended just using 5 of them. Pricey.
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post #39 of 58 Old 05-24-2013, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by prnoct90 View Post

Just called revel and they said if you use the C763L he recommended just using 5 of them. Pricey.

I would definitely compare them head to head with Triad if you decide to buy them. I thought the Triad speakers were head and shoulders better. But that is just me.
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post #40 of 58 Old 05-24-2013, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I would definitely compare them head to head with Triad if you decide to buy them. I thought the Triad speakers were head and shoulders better. But that is just me.

Triad doesnt really offer a comparable speaker does it?
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post #41 of 58 Old 05-24-2013, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by prnoct90 View Post

Triad doesnt really offer a comparable speaker does it?

Round? For surrounds they do, but for mains, you would want the square one that had the 45 degree angle.
http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/icb8lcr.html

JBL makes a round one that looks a lot like the Revel smile.gif
http://www.jbl.com/estore/jbl/us/products/LS360C/LS360C_JBL_US?skuId=LS360C_JBL_US&searchMode=regularProductOnly
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post #42 of 58 Old 05-24-2013, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I would definitely compare them head to head with Triad if you decide to buy them. I thought the Triad speakers were head and shoulders better. But that is just me.

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Originally Posted by prnoct90 View Post

Triad doesnt really offer a comparable speaker does it?

Yes they do offer an in-ceiling speaker with angled baffle: http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/icb8lcr.html Now if you are talking about ribbon tweeter, then no.

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post #43 of 58 Old 05-24-2013, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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hmm, too many options with speakers. I wish there was some non corrupt magazine or site for reviews
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post #44 of 58 Old 05-24-2013, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by prnoct90 View Post

hmm, too many options with speakers. I wish there was some non corrupt magazine or site for reviews

Well, it is all about opinion. So ultimately there is always a level of bias. Best thing to do is to go and listen to these, but with in-ceiling it can be tricky. That said there are design priciples for in-wall/in-ceiling that you should take into considered (angled baffle, enclosure, driver size, etc).
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post #45 of 58 Old 05-24-2013, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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The only thing thats caught my attention is the Triad speakers, unfortunately neither Triad or Revel are sold directly in my country, so I cant visit a dealer to hear them myself. The revel look nicer though tongue.gif . I am trying not to be biased, but there is a lot more written about Triad in ceiling speakers online, that of course doesnt necessarily mean they are better.
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post #46 of 58 Old 05-24-2013, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I decided to use C763L for my LCR and was just going to just C563DT for the two rears, but I found a really good deal on two more C763Ls and was wondering if I should just use those for the rears too?
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post #47 of 58 Old 05-29-2013, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Im now seriously considering the Goldenear Soundbar (I read some really great reviews about it), partially because it can be mounted with my tvs mount and then swivel with the TV depending on where Im sitting. My question now is, I already bought two Revel C763Ls for a really good deal, and I am wondering if I should sell them and "upgrade" to one of goldenears in ceiling speakers so they are all the same brand?
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post #48 of 58 Old 05-29-2013, 06:45 PM
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our new home will have a dedicated HT - the builder uses episode 700's for the 3 fronts and 2 rears (this is a $1600 upgrade) - is there a reason i would not go ceiling mount? they are angled toward the viewer inside the speaker - i was able to hear the 5.1 set up in their office (board room set up but not theater seating) and it sounded pretty good - i would say better then my free standing jbl l800's - but it was a quick listen - about 10 min of transformers - my concern is that i am accustomed to having the speakers directly facing me near ear level. and most of what i read goes with that but i have read a few really good reviews of the episodes saying how good and how surprised people are at how good they sound. I do like that i will not need to build a false wall or have speakers taking up space - they also have a lifetime warranty -

so any thoughts - good or bad - I also have the option to put them in the wall but the builder seems to push ceiling - and that is what they have on demo -

thanks - i did not want to start a new thread as this one seemed appropriate - also the room is 12x17
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post #49 of 58 Old 05-29-2013, 09:22 PM
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The 700 series is a good speaker but you can't beat good placement of speakers.  Three identical speakers at ear height for the front can't be beat.  I would only recommend in ceiling speakers for the front three speakers when the display is placed high on the wall, as in over a fireplace.  In that situation you can trick your brain into thinking the swound is coming from the display.  You casn't trick it for music though. I would go with in walls if possible.

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post #50 of 58 Old 05-30-2013, 06:04 AM
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the fronts are 700 point 6 if that helps for the model #
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post #51 of 58 Old 05-30-2013, 01:03 PM
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Yes, that does make a difference. I thought you were referring to the HT700. I was actually a Little surprised thinking your builder might care about audio. Using the point 6 speakers shows they do not.

The Point 6 speakers only angle 15 degrees so basically they Aim almost straight down. The HT700 angle 45 degrees and aim more towards the listening area which is an acceptable trade off for on display mounted high on the wall.

I would definitely use the in wall speakers if the TV is not going to be higher on the wall. It is still on better solution even if the TV is higher but maybe not as aesthetic.
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post #52 of 58 Old 05-30-2013, 09:53 PM
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I thought you were referring to the HT700. I was actually a Little surprised thinking your builder might care about audio. Using the point 6 speakers shows they do not.



thanks for the thoughts.....for some reason this comment made me laugh -

Basically they have 4 levels of speakers that are ceiling mounted. The main reason i like the idea is due to the screen wall being only 12'6" wide - my current room is 18x18 so i have a lot of room for my LCR as well as my movies on one side and AV equip on the other. With the new room being 6 feet smaller i was liking the idea of ceilings so that my a/v eqip could be under the screen with out a lot of clutter beyond that. I have a 106" screen that will be placed at an optimum level so that is not the concern -

the 5 700 point 6 speakers are $1600 -

the next level up is $2k - my pricing sheet does not specify model or brands so i need to call to see what that level is -

i listened to the point 6 for about 10 min and i liked what i heard but with with a ceiling mount i really want to make sure this is done right with the best sound given the speaker location.
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post #53 of 58 Old 05-31-2013, 09:24 AM
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To get the best sound speakers need to aim at you. The further off axis you are the worse the sound will be. If you would like to do in ceiling speakers, I would look for speakers that angle at least 30 degree and ideally have their own enclosure or back box. I'd look for brands and models like Paradigm, Episode or Triad that have these features. A great speaker not used for the right application will not sound great.
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post #54 of 58 Old 05-31-2013, 03:33 PM
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so the next level up are the paradigm cs-60r-30 for the fronts and cs-60r-sm for the rears - this is $2k - it looks like they are angled 30 degrees toward the viewer - any thoughts on this -
i asked about the episode ht 700 but they do not have those as an option
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post #55 of 58 Old 06-01-2013, 04:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone have any opinions about Revel Concerta vs GoldenEar, (I was considering Triad, but all their speakers are 4 ohms, and I'd rather not buy a different receiver). I already have Revel C763L which I could use for the rear, but I may sell them and just go for the GE soundbar (gotten great review) and GE in ceilings. GE has a lot of positive review, but something feels sketchy about them
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post #56 of 58 Old 06-01-2013, 05:53 AM
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The Paradigm system is a MUCH better option than the Episode Point 6 and would work well unless your seating is pretty far away then I would want more of an angle.  It doesn't sound like that would be a problem for your new room.  I am not sure why the HT700 isn't available except for maybe cost, it is a lot more expensive speaker as it would be over $2K just for the front three speakers.  The HT700 would be more on par with the SA line from Paradigm as far as quality of speaker.  Most people would be very happy with the CS series.

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post #57 of 58 Old 06-01-2013, 06:51 AM
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I wouldn't worry about 4 ohms with the Triads.  The way speakers are rated is different and in reality speakers vary their ohms depending on frequency.  So one manufacturer's 4 ohms speaker might be the lowest it goes at a given frequency while another manufacturer it might be the average.  We have Triad Bronze/ sIlver speaker system and have powered it with a variety of receivers over the past 9 years without a problem.  Unless you have a very low end receiver you won't have a problem powering the Triads.  Without an impedance graph along with sensitivity ratings (another measurement manufacturers don't measure the same way) it would be tough to tell which speakers are harder to drive.

 

Here are some reviews of the GoldenEar, it is tough to find measurements for in ceiling speakers. We have measured Triad in ceiling LCRs and they measure well for frequency response and are decent off axis.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-report-goldenear-technology-3d-array-ultra-high-performance-soundbar-system?page=0,3

http://www.hometheater.com/content/goldenear-technology-supercinema-3d-array-soundbar-system-ht-labs-measures

 

Frequency response is not impressive but not terrible either.  Off axis is not great but to be expected with a sound bar with a horizontal midrange-tweeter-midrange design.  The impedance graph shows it dips slightly below 4 ohms range at certain frequency ranges.  I'm not sure why the center speaker measures differently but I'm guessing the volume of the cabinet is different between the L/R speakers or maybe a different crossover.  They would rate it 5 ohms but GoldenEar states compatible with 8 ohms systems.  So the moral is don't go by impedance (ohm) ratings of speaker manufacturers.  In fact a well respected industry professional once told us in a class is the only specs he trusts from a manufacturer are size and weight:-)

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post #58 of 58 Old 06-03-2013, 06:39 PM
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The Paradigm system is a MUCH better option than the Episode Point 6 and would work well unless your seating is pretty far away then I would want more of an angle.  It doesn't sound like that would be a problem for your new room.  I am not sure why the HT700 isn't available except for maybe cost, it is a lot more expensive speaker as it would be over $2K just for the front three speakers.  The HT700 would be more on par with the SA line from Paradigm as far as quality of speaker.  Most people would be very happy with the CS series.


great! i just made the upgrade - i think i will be more than happy - and am thinking this will last me quite some time -
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