Will these speakers match up nicely? Klipsch and Rythmik ..... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 05-20-2013, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Info-

Room (being used for theater) is 14x12x8.5 (1428 cubic feet) after adding a 2' false wall.
I will be using an acoustically transparent screen and speakers will go behind the screen.
Seating will be approximately 12' from screen
Receiver is a Pioneer 1522 or SC 65 (same thing internally)

I have to deal with a 46" high foundation ledge that surrounds my room, so floor speakers are out. I want front heights, and that gives me 20" max to work with on the L/C/R

Can you give me some opinions on how this array of speakers would work together?

Mains -L/C/R 3 Klipsch RB-81ii -http://www.klipsch.com/rb-81-ii-bookshelf-speaker
Side surround - 2 Klipsch RB 41ii - http://www.klipsch.com/rb-41-ii-bookshelf-speakers-pair
Front Heights- 2 Klipsch RB 41ii - http://www.klipsch.com/rb-41-ii-bookshelf-speakers-pair
Subwoofer - Rythmik Audio F25 (dual 15" woofers) http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F25.html OR
SVS Dual-SB12-NSD (dual 12" woofers) http://www.svsound.com/dual-subwoofers/dual-sb12-nsd#.UZrDTso2gik

I was debating adding rear surrounds, but I'm only going to have about a 1.5 feet behind the one row of seating. I think the heights and side surrounds will be enough.

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post #2 of 34 Old 05-20-2013, 06:38 PM
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If you like the Klipsch sound and use them mostly for movies and TV I think they would be really nice.

You could save a bunch of money and get a PSA XS or XV30 instead of the Rythmik or a pair of XS or XV15s to smooth things out if needed.

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post #3 of 34 Old 05-20-2013, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your input!

I should have mentioned I don't want a ported sub. I've always like sealed enclosures when it comes to subs. They've always sounded crisper and tighter to me.

I don't see any savings on the PSAs you mentioned. The Rythmik is 1399.00 for the dual 15"

Playing around on SVSs site I used their calculator with the Klipsch RB 81ii speakers and it recommended the SB 13 Ultra - http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/sealed-box/sb13-ultra#.UZrYQso2i-U

Now that looks like one hell of a speaker, 1000 watt amp! Reminds me exactly of the JL Audio 13W7. Hmmmmm.....

I don't want any holes in my sound.

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post #4 of 34 Old 05-20-2013, 07:30 PM
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I would definitely go for the Rythmik. It will have a lot more output for starters, plus you can always add another later for a truly massive system. The upgrade path for the SVS subs wouldn't be so straightforward.
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post #5 of 34 Old 05-20-2013, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Should there be any concern of having to use bookshelf speakers w/8" drivers for L-C-R?

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post #6 of 34 Old 05-20-2013, 08:18 PM
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No, 8" is fine for a woofer, especially since the Klipsch tweeters will have no problem going down to the crossover point. It's good that you are using a bookshelf as a center too, it will probably work better than the usual horizontal centers.
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post #7 of 34 Old 05-20-2013, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I would definitely go for the Rythmik. It will have a lot more output for starters, plus you can always add another later for a truly massive system. The upgrade path for the SVS subs wouldn't be so straightforward.

The Rythmik I'm looking at is a dual 15" setup.

I almost think that the SVS Sb13 ultra would be louder that 2 15s. That ultra is one hell of a speaker. But two subs would be better then one for other reasons.

Could you elaborate on why the upgrade path for the SVS subs wouldn't be so straight forward?

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post #8 of 34 Old 05-20-2013, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

No, 8" is fine for a woofer, especially since the Klipsch tweeters will have no problem going down to the crossover point. It's good that you are using a bookshelf as a center too, it will probably work better than the usual horizontal centers.

Cool. That's what I wanted to hear. I wasn't sure if I was going to be short changed not being able to use floor / dual driver speakers.

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post #9 of 34 Old 05-20-2013, 09:20 PM
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Great call on the bookshelf center. Much better choice than the rc-62 horizontal MTM.
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post #10 of 34 Old 05-20-2013, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

The Rythmik I'm looking at is a dual 15" setup.

I almost think that the SVS Sb13 ultra would be louder that 2 15s. That ultra is one hell of a speaker. But two subs would be better then one for other reasons.

Could you elaborate on why the upgrade path for the SVS subs wouldn't be so straight forward?

It wouldn't be as straightforward because you would probably want to replace the SB12 subs to get any kind of significant upgrade, unlike the Rythmik where you simply add another one.
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post #11 of 34 Old 05-20-2013, 09:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by csgamer View Post

Great call on the bookshelf center. Much better choice than the rc-62 horizontal MTM.

Thanks! For my room size an AT screen made more sense, which allowed me to go with a vertical center.
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

It wouldn't be as straightforward because you would probably want to replace the SB12 subs to get any kind of significant upgrade, unlike the Rythmik where you simply add another one.

Oh I see what you're saying. The Rythmiks I were looking at were a dual set up, but they're in one box and I'm not sure how much that would negate the point of having two subs. I'd put them in the center of my false wall vs. if I had two separates I'd put one in each corner, or at least some distance apart.

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post #12 of 34 Old 05-21-2013, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I called SVS today and had a great conversation with Darren. He recommended I go with the Cylindrical shape, and it sounded good until I studied my design more. The model he suggested was the Dual-PC12-NSD. He said for my room it would have good enough power. I thought it was very nice he did not try to up sell me to the more powerful model. But now I'm trying to up sell myself. lol

He did convince me ported was the way to go, for movies/TV which is mostly what I will use this for. OK, and some Tiger Woods golf. rolleyes.gif

What are your thoughts on the cylindrical vs. the cubes? Either the NSD or Plus models.


The most I will be able to space the subs in a cube would be approx. 26" a part and one will next to a concrete foundation wall that is 46" high and the other will next to a 2'6" walk way with only an insulated wall separating it from the bedroom on the other side (guest room).

If cylindrical I could space farther apart, the full width of the false wall which is 144", however I'd have to kick it out a couple more inches and then one of the cylinders would be in a corner next to again a concrete foundation.

The cylinders would also, if spaced at max, be outside my screen and therefor outside my front sound stage.

Oh so many questions..... Here's a couple drawings I've been tweeking to perfection. They include the cube subs not the cylindrical subs. They are not to actual scale FYI




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post #13 of 34 Old 05-21-2013, 09:13 PM
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I called SVS today and had a great conversation with Darren. He recommended I go with the Cylindrical shape, and it sounded good until I studied my design more. The model he suggested was the Dual-PC12-NSD. He said for my room it would have good enough power. I thought it was very nice he did not try to up sell me to the more powerful model. But now I'm trying to up sell myself. lol

SVS cylinder subs rock - I've owned one for 6 + years now. BTW, AV Science sells them too.
Quote:
The cylinders would also, if spaced at max, be outside my screen and therefor outside my front sound stage.

I'd put them behind your seating. That's where mine is - you can't tell where the sound is coming from with a sub anyway. And you probably don't want them in front 'cause they are big !

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SVS cylinder subs rock - I've owned one for 6 + years now. BTW, AV Science sells them too.
I'd put them behind your seating. That's where mine is - you can't tell where the sound is coming from with a sub anyway. And you probably don't want them in front 'cause they are big !

Thanks, Craig.

I'm gonna end up with less space behind my seating than the 18" shown. (I need to change that) and on one side, as you can see by my rough room sketch, its open and not in a corner.

I guess I can run one input to the far wall and use the second output should it sound better on the back wall. It's just Y d on the back of my receiver.

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post #15 of 34 Old 05-21-2013, 09:47 PM
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We're sitting 12' from a 118" wide screen ( 2.35:1 ) and about 11' 6" from a 106" wide screen ( 16:9 ) - you can probably move your seating a little closer. What projector are you using??

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post #16 of 34 Old 05-22-2013, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Panasonic PT AR 100U http://www.projectorcentral.com/Panasonic-PT-AR100U.htm

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post #17 of 34 Old 05-22-2013, 03:48 PM
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Cheaper than the F25

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/xv30f

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post #18 of 34 Old 05-22-2013, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

Cheaper than the F25

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/xv30f

What am I missing ? http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F25.html

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post #19 of 34 Old 05-22-2013, 04:28 PM
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shipping costs, I guess. I am not sure if Rythmik have shipped a single one of those F25s, by the way. I read somewhere there was a problem shipping them. I would send Rythmik an email to see what the status of that is.
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post #20 of 34 Old 05-22-2013, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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shipping costs, I guess. I am not sure if Rythmik have shipped a single one of those F25s, by the way. I read somewhere there was a problem shipping them. I would send Rythmik an email to see what the status of that is.
Thanks. In any event I've been convinced that for movies a ported option would be better, vs. for music where a sealed option would be better. Also Subjective I know.........

I have no room for ported 15's frown.gif

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post #21 of 34 Old 05-22-2013, 05:37 PM
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Thanks. In any event I've been convinced that for movies a ported option would be better, vs. for music where a sealed option would be better. Also Subjective I know.........

I have no room for ported 15's frown.gif

A lot of people have the idea that sealed sounds better than ported, but that is a a pretty bogus exaggeration. The truth is, if you get these guys into blind listening test with some decent ported subs versus some decent sealed, they probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Anyway, you might have room for ported 15"s, if you can accommodate some height. Buy a couple of these Dayton Ultimax drivers and put them in some sonotubes. Look up "sonotube subwoofers" in google. They are the easiest ported subwoofers you can make yourself, and they do not have a big footprint. I would ask about it in the DIY forum. You could make a couple of those subs for relatively cheaply, and they will absolutely blow any equivalently priced commercial system away by a large margin. You would want the help of the guys in the DIY forum for the right internal volume and porting length. A monster dual sonotube system could probably be had for less than $1.5, complete with amplification and equalization, with potentially less than a 2' diameter footprint.
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post #22 of 34 Old 05-22-2013, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

A lot of people have the idea that sealed sounds better than ported, but that is a a pretty bogus exaggeration. The truth is, if you get these guys into blind listening test with some decent ported subs versus some decent sealed, they probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Anyway, you might have room for ported 15"s, if you can accommodate some height. Buy a couple of these Dayton Ultimax drivers and put them in some sonotubes. Look up "sonotube subwoofers" in google. They are the easiest ported subwoofers you can make yourself, and they do not have a big footprint. I would ask about it in the DIY forum. You could make a couple of those subs for relatively cheaply, and they will absolutely blow any equivalently priced commercial system away by a large margin. You would want the help of the guys in the DIY forum for the right internal volume and porting length. A monster dual sonotube system could probably be had for less than $1.5, complete with amplification and equalization, with potentially less than a 2' diameter footprint.

Appreciate the suggestion, but I'm reaching the point of being past the DIY audio building stuff. I used to love tinkering with car audio, spent thousands upon thousands of dollars and hours. I'm just kind of wanting as much as a turnkey setup as can be had for a decent HT/Media Room.

I haven't touched one thing audio wise in my Hummer, and almost gave up and hired out the long tube header and front end upgrade I did last summer. I just find the older I am getting the more I'd rather spend my time doing other things. It's weird... same goes for building computers, jail breaking iPhones, rooting Androids, etc.... I just don't have the 'TINKER" in me any more. LOL...

Some of those amp powered speakers you suggested in the other thread looked interesting, but the complexity of the amps on the speakers draw me away from them.

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post #23 of 34 Old 05-22-2013, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Updated the drawings.

Thinking if I go with the RB 81s I have room to drop them down and go wide out into my foundation area if need be. They won't have to sit on the 45" shelf because they port fire forward.

If I go with the RF 82s I'd have no choice but to move them in beyond the foundation intrusion, since they back port fire. RF 82s are 16.3" deep so even without the foundation intrusion I'd run into spacing problems for the recommended 12-18 " space from the back of speaker to wall.

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post #24 of 34 Old 05-22-2013, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

Updated the drawings.

Thinking if I go with the RB 81s I have room to drop them down and go wide out into my foundation area if need be. They won't have to sit on the 45" shelf because they port fire forward.

If I go with the RF 82s I'd have no choice but to move them in beyond the foundation intrusion, since they back port fire. RF 82s are 16.3" deep so even without the foundation intrusion I'd run into spacing problems for the recommended 12-18 " space from the back of speaker to wall.

If you have good subwoofers, I would stick with the bookshelf speakers.
What about these:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465069/4-x-cht-sho-10s

If he sold you three vs four your cost would be well under $1K.
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post #25 of 34 Old 05-22-2013, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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As of now the plan is SVS NSD or PLUS cylindrical models. SVS said NDS duals would fine.

Either way, I'm getting two subs.

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post #26 of 34 Old 05-22-2013, 06:46 PM
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That's a shame, some decent 15"s in some sonotubes would have many times the output of SVS NSDs. I wouldn't be surprised if one were on the level of the PC13 Ultras, and you could have two for less than the price of one Ultra.

As for the active speakers, they don't have to be anymore complicated than the Klipsch speakers. You just hook them up to some pre-outs and run your receiver's room correction. If you want to tinker with the settings on the amps, you can, but it probably won't make much of a difference. For hidden speakers behind a screen, they make a lot more sense than Klipsch speakers. They will be a lot more powerful as well.
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post #27 of 34 Old 05-22-2013, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

If you have good subwoofers, I would stick with the bookshelf speakers.
What about these:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465069/4-x-cht-sho-10s

If he sold you three vs four your cost would be well under $1K.

Why those over the RB 81s?

Are they better in some way? Equal?

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They would be more powerful. They are using true high sensitivity woofers, unlike Klipsch. Someone measured the RB-81 and they turned out to be 91 dB unlike their 97 dB claim. Not that the Klipsch are wimps, they are still more dynamic than most speakers, just not nearly as much as they claim to be. The Klipsch probably has deeper bass extension though, but who cares if you are crossing them over at 80 hz.
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post #29 of 34 Old 05-22-2013, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

Why those over the RB 81s?

Are they better in some way? Equal?

I like them better. I am not a fan of the Klipsch RB/RF line. The Klipsch THX line is a step up. Have you listened to the RB81's? If you like them, then buy them of course, but it is obviously a personal thing buying speakers.
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post #30 of 34 Old 05-22-2013, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I've only read that klipsch are really close to what you get in a theater.

The bass does go lower in the R81. Isn't CHT going out of business?

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