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post #1 of 120 Old 05-27-2013, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone

I've never been much into Audio/Video and now it's catching up with me. I have the pleasure of moving into a furnished apartment and soon and want to plan my Audio setup.

I'm going to have a TV, video gaming console (with XBMC on it, all media on a NAS) and a Blu-ray player. So I probably need an AVR.

The room looks like this:
(Metrics... So the Room would be 2077 x 1546 inches)
Blue is the sofa, rose some wall cupboards and green is a sideboard where the TV is sitting on.


There's also already two wall mounted front speakers, but they're probably rather cheap. But since the wiring and the drilled holes are already there, I should probably look for wall-mounted front speakers (all the wiring is hidden in the cupboards behind the wall).

I'll be watching movies and listen to music around 50/50. I listen to a wide range of music; Blues, DnB, Classical, whatever fits my mood. I don't think I have too much of an sophisticated hearing, so I can probably leave the high-end be. Also, there's neighbors upstairs (luckily, we Swiss build our walls pretty thick wink.gif).
So what I'm looking for is quality and decent and well-balanced sound. Meaning it doesn't have to be cheap, but also not over-sized (even if I sometimes do tend to just buy the bigger models 8[ )

So, 5.1 setup.
I'm really not sure what kind of speakers I need for this living room (it's also quit open, as you can see on the upper-right corner of the room). And since I'm not sure what speakers I need, I can also not decide on a sub (or AVR).

Would I need something like a Paradigm Millenia One? http://www.digitaltrends.com/speaker-system-reviews/paradigm-milleniaone-5-0-system-with-milleniasub-review/
Or will smaller also do just fine?

For the sub I read the Klipsch RW-12 is a favourite, but it seems discontinued?

As for the AVR... Probably depends on the speakers? Whether a Denon AVR-1713 is sufficient or if has to be bigger (AVR-3313)? Edit: Just saw the Denon AVR-X1000, looks interesting?
It seems all of the AVRs today have a remote app for android (big plus!) and one HDMI out should be enough for me.

Edit2: What I also forgot: I was thinking about a Sonos (plus Bridge), that I could carry around the rooms. Bedroom, kitchen, bath... Would you say that could be integrated easily or are there other options?


(If it seems like I haven't done any research... I sometimes like to create threads just to get my thinking going smile.gif) Anyway, any help would be appreciated!

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post #2 of 120 Old 05-27-2013, 03:47 PM
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Budget for everything?
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post #3 of 120 Old 05-27-2013, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Ahh yes, the tricky question. Honestly I'm not sure... I'm ready so spend some, but then it's pretty much open when it comes to HiFi, eh?

I'd say around 3k. (not counting in any Sonos or different product for the other rooms. Just 5.1 plus AVR or whatever would fit)

I'm aware that some people buy a single amp or even speaker for that money, but again I don't need equipment that I can only run on 10% power because else the windows are gonna blow out.
But probably it's more like the better/more expensive the equipment, the better the sound on lower volumes, eh?

Edit: Ok, been reading some more and thought of something like along this route:
- Paradigm MilleniaOne 5.0, ~1.2k
+ SVS SB12, ~600

That leads me to the question of what to look for in a AVR, namely output strenght. But the way I understand it, each manufacturer has their own way of measuring.

I'm planning on visiting a HiFi store where I could listen to a M1 2.0

Also, I should be able to make a few shots of the flat later.

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post #4 of 120 Old 05-28-2013, 06:45 AM
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Paradigm's a good choice, as is the SVS sub (also check out Rythmik subs).

Too bad you aren't in the States and have a Costco warehouse nearby. They were blowing out the Pioneer 1522k receiver for a song. 9.2 channel decoding for $600!

Check out Denon and its sister company Marantz. Onkyo is a contender too. Though, I'm sure you're going to pay through the nose in Europe for these brands. I would always look at a receiver with a full set of pre-amp outputs, even if means spending a little more. You then have options for better amplifiers down the road.

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post #5 of 120 Old 05-28-2013, 06:48 AM
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2077 inches x 1546 inches is 173 feet by 128 feet. Is that right for the dimensions of your room? That's giant eek.gif

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post #6 of 120 Old 05-28-2013, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

2077 inches x 1546 inches is 173 feet by 128 feet. Is that right for the dimensions of your room? That's giant eek.gif

I think the conversion from metrics to English measurements somehow got lost in translation. biggrin.gif

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post #7 of 120 Old 05-28-2013, 07:10 AM
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On a three K budget, I wouldn't spend more that 5-600 dollars on a receiver. And while there is still some question about the size of the room smile.gif and while Paradigm makes some great speakers, I would question whether the Paradigm MilleniaOne 5.0 has the drivers to fill that space!

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post #8 of 120 Old 05-28-2013, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Dan: Thanks for your input!
Don't know about the prices, but from what I've seen they don't seem too far off...

The question for me is how I have to go about choosing an AVR. For example, if I went for the M1 and the SB12, what output does the AVR have to havee to adequately power them? All the reviews from the smallest Onkyo up to the biggest Pioneer talk of "great sound, yeah!".
And how do I spot the pre-amp outputs? ._.

@cel4145: Err, no wink.gif It's 17.3 (5.7m) x 12.8 (3.9m)

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post #9 of 120 Old 05-28-2013, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salamandro View Post

Dan: Thanks for your input!
Don't know about the prices, but from what I've seen they don't seem too far off...

The question for me is how I have to go about choosing an AVR. For example, if I went for the M1 and the SB12, what output does the AVR have to havee to adequately power them? All the reviews from the smallest Onkyo up to the biggest Pioneer talk of "great sound, yeah!".
And how do I spot the pre-amp outputs? ._.

@cel4145: Err, no wink.gif It's 17.3 (5.7m) x 12.8 (3.9m)

It's good to hear that you don't have to try to fill a cavern with sound biggrin.gif

I agree with Elihawk. Any $500 to $600 name brand receiver will have enough output for the room. Focus on the features you want. I recommend a Denon with Audyssey MultEQ or MultEQ XT room correction software which can help to improve the in room response of the speakers and sub.

And as far as speakers, are you married to speakers that small? Larger bookshelf speakers with bigger drivers can typically more easily fill the room with sound.
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post #10 of 120 Old 05-28-2013, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Elihawk: Sounds good!

cel4145: Are they that small? ._. What are other common 5.0 or 5.1 systems you would recommend for this room-size and money?

Features... I guess manageable by Android App, some sort of Audyssey... Don't think I need Zone 2, multiple HDMI out or all the fancy video stuff. In short: not too much.

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post #11 of 120 Old 05-28-2013, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salamandro View Post

Dan: Thanks for your input!
Don't know about the prices, but from what I've seen they don't seem too far off...

The question for me is how I have to go about choosing an AVR. For example, if I went for the M1 and the SB12, what output does the AVR have to havee to adequately power them? All the reviews from the smallest Onkyo up to the biggest Pioneer talk of "great sound, yeah!".
And how do I spot the pre-amp outputs? ._.

@cel4145: Err, no wink.gif It's 17.3 (5.7m) x 12.8 (3.9m)

Sorry, I should have clarified: I really like Paradigm speakers... good choice in brands (I have Studio speakers myself). If you want on-wall speakers, I'd look at their larger Millenia 20 or 30, not the One. They're a bit too small. I'd even look at their Monitor line if the Studio Reference series is out of your price range.

Audyssey room correction is a very good feature to have in a receiver, so I agree with cel4145 on that point. As for pre-amp audio outputs... look for a picture of the back of the receiver and look for a grouping of 8 or more RCA audio outputs that are marked Pre-Amp Out or Pre Out. The Denon 3313ci and Marantz SR5007 are the lowest models with pre-amp outputs (Marantz seems to have more features for the money than their Denon sister brand). Onkyo's upcoming TX-NR828 and current TX-NR717 have pre-amp outs. All models above those listed do as well.

If you don't have room for 7.1 channels with back surround speakers, there are receiver models with DTS Neo:X decoding where you could add front height effects speakers to help spread out the sound.
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post #12 of 120 Old 05-28-2013, 08:00 AM
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I'm trying to figure out all the hype about Sonos. Yes it has Airplay, like a lot of other devices, but I didn't think the sound quality was all that impressive (on the Play 5). Am I missing something, or is Sonos just the next Bose? I think some people are more in to the gadget than getting good sound. Please correct me if I am wrong. Anyway, have one really good system, rather than trying to get music in every room. Just my opinion.
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post #13 of 120 Old 05-28-2013, 08:05 AM
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I'm trying to figure out all the hype about Sonos. Yes it has Airplay, like a lot of other devices, but I didn't think the sound quality was all that impressive (on the Play 5). Am I missing something, or is Sonos just the next Bose? I think some people are more in to the gadget than getting good sound. Please correct me if I am wrong. Anyway, have one really good system, rather than trying to get music in every room. Just my opinion.

+1

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post #14 of 120 Old 05-28-2013, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Dan Hitchman: Phew, lots of new hardware to look at! Will go through it smile.gif

Chevypower: They seem to have a good thing going with their app and their wireless system. I don't need Airplay, don't have anything supporting it. If you look at my ground-plan in the starting point:
Blue ist the sofa I'll be sitting at mostly
"Zimmer 2" is the bedroom.

The idea was to have some wireless system like Sonos so I can enjoy music in those rooms as well. Any other way to do this? Just invest the 400$ from a sonos in better speakers in the living room?

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post #15 of 120 Old 05-28-2013, 08:41 AM
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I would, I think an extra $400 in one system can make a world of difference. Eg you can get a Yamaha 673 or 675, wire the zone 2's for your bedroom with some really good (but low price) bookshelf speakers for that. Spend the rest on your 5.1 speakers. You can control the zone 2 system with your tablet or smart phone. You will get much better sound for your money I think. I think the Yamaha amps are more flexible than the Denons, e.g. the 1913/2313 combines rear surround, bi-amp front, and zone 2 in the same terminal. The Yamaha combines the rear surround and bi-amp (which is fine), but it has a separate zone 2 terminal, so you won't need to plug and unplug speakers when switching between 7.1, 5.1 + zone 2, bi-amp etc. Just something to keep in mind.
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post #16 of 120 Old 05-28-2013, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, don't know if I should laugh or cry.

Been to my father's today (the flat I'm going to have for the next two years), and found the following 2.1 equipment:
B&O Beosound 3000
B&O Beolab 4000 Speakers
B&O Beolab 2 Subwoofer
(These are all guesses, judging from B&O product-pictures)

This probably cost a *load of money and is compatible to... nothing?

Can this be connected to an AVR in any way to still build a 5.1 system and have all the necessary HDMI connections (TV, console, Blueray etc.)?

Edit:
Here's some photos from the room & setup:



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post #17 of 120 Old 05-28-2013, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevypower View Post

I would, I think an extra $400 in one system can make a world of difference. Eg you can get a Yamaha 673 or 675, wire the zone 2's for your bedroom with some really good (but low price) bookshelf speakers for that. Spend the rest on your 5.1 speakers. You can control the zone 2 system with your tablet or smart phone. You will get much better sound for your money I think. I think the Yamaha amps are more flexible than the Denons, e.g. the 1913/2313 combines rear surround, bi-amp front, and zone 2 in the same terminal. The Yamaha combines the rear surround and bi-amp (which is fine), but it has a separate zone 2 terminal, so you won't need to plug and unplug speakers when switching between 7.1, 5.1 + zone 2, bi-amp etc. Just something to keep in mind.
The basic difference with Sonos, in this case, is that any Sonos Play (speaker), Connect, Connect:Amp can be playing different material in every room.

I use a Sonos Connect...not their speakers, which is connected via optical to my pre/pro to play FLAC files that are stored on my NAS device.

The Sonos speakers are just their easiest way to get sound in other room...not the best sound. I would just rather get their Sonos Connect:Amp, and choose my own speakers. It isn't that pricey if you start adding up how much it costs to wire up rooms, add speakers, amplification, and remote control.

When the Oppo machines have the ability to make playlists, I will probably get rid of my Sonos.

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post #18 of 120 Old 05-28-2013, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salamandro View Post

OK, don't know if I should laugh or cry.

Been to my father's today (the flat I'm going to have for the next two years), and found the following 2.1 equipment:
B&O Beosound 3000
B&O Beolab 4000 Speakers
B&O Beolab 2 Subwoofer
(These are all guesses, judging from B&O product-pictures)

This probably cost a *load of money and is compatible to... nothing?

Can this be connected to an AVR in any way to still build a 5.1 system and have all the necessary HDMI connections (TV, console, Blu-ray etc.)?

I would consider the B&O stuff you listed to be superfluous to a modern home theater system. You could take those out and place them in a non critical listening room or bedroom, but I wouldn't bother trying to integrate them into what you're doing. B&O... the European Bose with a little more quality and flair. biggrin.gif

Okay, with those pictures, I would take out the shiny speakers to wall mount a larger flat panel and use the space underneath to set your horizontal center speaker. If you take out the current speakers, just put a temporary wall plugs to hide the holes... the larger TV would cover them anyway. Heck, I'd go with floorstanding left and right tower speakers flanking either side of that floating white A/V cabinet thing, so you have a slightly wider front stereo soundstage than before. Perhaps put the sub in the back area where the plant and striped chair is, though you might have to play around with the location a bit.

The surrounds would have to go on the rear wall where the mirror is and spread out for best results. Due to the closeness of the seating to the wall, I'd suggest on-wall omni-polar surrounds that match whatever front speaker line you choose.
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post #19 of 120 Old 05-28-2013, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, back to square one and don't collect any money biggrin.gif

The budget...Dou you still think 3k will buy me decent front-floor-standing 5.1 setup?

I mean it's the same for pretty much any product, be it HiFi, running shoes, motorcycle helmets or a music instrument. There's always a certain pricerange you will have to enter to get a solid performance that you will enjoy. Anything above that pricerange and it becomes luxury, anything below that pricerange and you're likely going cheap and regret it in the long run.

If so, I still got plenty of options for AVRs from above (thanks guys!). Any recommendation to get me started on my front-floor-standing-and-on-wall-omno-polar 5.1 search?

Oh, and the SVS B12 isn't an option, as it's only being sold through Germany and the delivering costs would be somewhere between 60-80€. But I've found other suggestions in other threads, so that should be alright.

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post #20 of 120 Old 05-28-2013, 10:41 PM
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cel4145: Are they that small? ._. What are other common 5.0 or 5.1 systems you would recommend for this room-size and money?

Do you like midbass? The Paradigm MilleniaOne are known for being excellent smaller speakers. However, they have a -3db rolloff of 120hz, which means probably need to cross them with a sub at 150hz. More full range speakers with bigger drivers would allow you to have all of your speakers producing much of the midbass. That's a plus for the HT immersion experience.
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Ok, back to square one and don't collect any money biggrin.gif
The budget...Dou you still think 3k will buy me decent front-floor-standing 5.1 setup?

Bookshelf/monitors with 6" or 6.5" drivers can work very well with a good sub. A good sub is the soul of a good HT setup. Don't skimp there.
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Oh, and the SVS B12 isn't an option, as it's only being sold through Germany and the delivering costs would be somewhere between 60-80€. But I've found other suggestions in other threads, so that should be alright.

Probably still an excellent deal. Here in the US, SVS subs generally perform as well or better than traditional speaker company subs that are twice the price MSRP. Get the SVS PB12 (better for HT over the SB12 because of the lower frequency extension) instead, and I would imagine it's probably worth the price even with the shipping.
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post #21 of 120 Old 05-29-2013, 02:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Dan Hitchman: I might rearrange the sofa and move it a little more to the left. As it is now, only the most left, extended part of the sofa and the striped chair face the TV-wall directly. My dad watches TV mostly alone, so it suits him well.
I, on the other hand, will have guests to watch movies and play video games with, so I'd like to have the sofa more or less aligned with the TV. Probably will have to expel one or two plants (they're gonna die soon anaways biggrin.gif)

This means mounting the rear speakers on the rear wall probably isn't a good option, because then around 1/3 of the sofa would be "under" the window. Besides, this THX graph says to put the rear speakers sideways? That would mean placing one around the plants and one around the bookshelf (either in it or on a stand?)
http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-entertainment/home-theater/surround-sound-speaker-set-up/


cel4145: I think I'll discard the MilleniaOne because I don't need to go small (in terms of build-size). I suppose I can get better sound for the same money when aiming for standing/bookshelf speakers, no?

Gee, I'm still struggling. Boston Accoustics for example. Been looking at their A and M range and am confused as ever biggrin.gif
M250: 2 1/2-way floorstand with 5 1/4” woofer
A360: 3-way floorstand with dual 6.5 DCD woofers

I have no idea what this means and what I would ahve to look out for for my room. Guess I have to continue reading biggrin.gif

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post #22 of 120 Old 05-29-2013, 09:58 PM
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You can always move the sofa slightly forward and off the wall and put the surrounds on stands just slightly behind and angled in towards the main listening position on the sofa. Would work fine for 5.1 surround and your dad wouldn't kill you for marking up his wall with speaker brackets. Make sure the stands place the tweeters at or somewhat above ear level. The front left and rights should have their tweeters at ear level and if the center speaker is somewhat lower than ideal, angle it up towards you and have the face flush with the edge of the current TV stand to reduce sound reflections.

Here's a more updated diagram than the THX recommendations.



It would be sort of like placing the side surrounds just slightly off the 90 degree mark.

Good 3-way speakers tend to be better IMHO with dialog and music vocal clarity since the frequencies are shared between the tweeter and the mid range driver. The bass driver can act more independently. 3 way means there are three crossover filters for each set of high, medium, and lower frequency drivers.

I have Paradigm Studio speakers and really, really like them (since we've mentioned that brand before). You could try four Studio 20's and a CC-490 or CC-590 center. Hard to know what they go for in Europe... but I do know they sound fantastic, not fatiguing at all, and quite faithful to the source material with very clear movie dialog. You would need a subwoofer at some point.

The Boston Acoustics A series is very good for the price and get high marks in their budget category. If you fancy those, I'd go with the A 360's up front. A 225c center. And matching A 26 bookshelfs for the surrounds as they sonically compliment the A 360's. Can't go wrong there either if the Studio's are too steep at this time.
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post #23 of 120 Old 05-29-2013, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Chevypower View Post

I'm trying to figure out all the hype about Sonos. Yes it has Airplay, like a lot of other devices, but I didn't think the sound quality was all that impressive (on the Play 5). Am I missing something, or is Sonos just the next Bose? I think some people are more in to the gadget than getting good sound. Please correct me if I am wrong. Anyway, have one really good system, rather than trying to get music in every room. Just my opinion.

Sonos owner here. I chose to have a pretty good system and Sonos. Sonos has more versatility than Bose ever imagined it had. I get pretty good sound out of my Play 5 and Play 3. Are the speakers about $100 overpriced...of course. It's all about decisions.
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Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
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Sonos-Play 5 and Play 3
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post #24 of 120 Old 05-30-2013, 12:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

I have Paradigm Studio speakers and really, really like them (since we've mentioned that brand before). You could try four Studio 20's and a CC-490 or CC-590 center. Hard to know what they go for in Europe... but I do know they sound fantastic, not fatiguing at all, and quite faithful to the source material with very clear movie dialog. You would need a subwoofer at some point.

The Boston Acoustics A series is very good for the price and get high marks in their budget category. If you fancy those, I'd go with the A 360's up front. A 225c center. And matching A 26 bookshelfs for the surrounds as they sonically compliment the A 360's. Can't go wrong there either if the Studio's are too steep at this time.
Thanks again for your elaborate feedback smile.gif Couldn't find the Studio line in Switzerland, only Monitor :\

I guess I'll go see a bunch of HiFi specialists around my area and see what they offer. I'm kind of not keen on japanese brands (just a gut feeling, just like with cars wink.gif) and the brands with somewhat more style (like Boston Acoustics, B&W, Wharfedale) aren't that widespread, it seems.

But your suggested setup, SVS SB12 and a Marantz SR5007 (just throwing parts together now wink.gif) would fit into my budget. I'll read up on 2 way and 3 way, drivers, crossover and look out for equal products for the A360 and see if I can get a hearing at some dealer.

How do I go about choosing a sub? Does it have to somehow fit at some specs?


Edit: Found a dealer who sells a pair of demo PSB T5 for a good price, will try to listen to them on Saturday. Also planning on visiting a B&W store for a pair of 684. Read only good things about the Boston A360, but the colours (yeah, as if that was my only problem) might not fit my taste (don't think I'm the glossy type), therefore I sure want to throw an eye and ear at them, too. Just wasn't able to locate a dealer because their storefinder somehow does not work for me...

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post #25 of 120 Old 06-02-2013, 03:06 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, short update on my auditions. Been to 2 stores, B&W was closed due to some private business.

First stop:
PSB Image T5 - First off, as mentioned before, I'm a total amateur when it comes to HiFi so all I could do was listen to my gut, e.g. yeah that sounds somewhat good, bad, terrible or great.
As for the T5s... They somehow did not impress me. Looking at their price and what they sounded like, I somehow had expected more than that. In Switzerland, they sell for around 1'200$/pair. So we hooked up a pair of Idon'trememberwhat for around 2'500 and the difference was well audible.
Unfortunately, the owner did not seem very interested in doing business with me, so we thanked him for his time and left for stop number 2:

Boston Acoustics A360 - I had phoned in during the week to confirm they had a pair available, so when I got there the salesman told me they had sold the pair in the morning. Disappointing surely, but the guy offered to drive down to the customer and get them back for me so I could try them out. He assured me it wouldn't take longer than 15 minutes and their (well known) customer surely wouldn't mind. So I was like, well, go ahead, then, and while he was gone the owner came over to me and was greatly sorry she misunderstood me on the phone and she had thought I'd be interested in the M series.
So, couple of minutes later the guy came back and swiftly hooked up the pair of A360ies. We put on my CD and I thought the sound was pretty decent. Out of curiosity we then switched over to the M340 or M350 and... There was, ofc, a big difference. To me, mainly the bass was much more present, and a much better acoustic pattern all around. When he went ahead and added the subwoofer (Msub, I guess), the was taken to a whole other leven and, if it wasn't before, now sure was impressive.
I asked him to switch back to the A360 and add the sub, too. So at first, without the sub, there was again this lack of... "body". But when he switched on the sub, boy that sounded great!
So, I guess I could get really happy with the A line in a 5.1 setup.
I also mentioned I'd like to hear the B&W 684 and although they don't offer B&W at their store, she said she could arrange to get a pair for me to try out. So I guess I will look around some more and get back at her offer soonish. With this kind of service I'm also willing to pay the extra HiFi-store cost, compared to the cheaper internet-prices...

So, two questions at the moment:
  • The receiver. The guy in store 1 recommended an Anthem over a Denon or Marantz, said though Anthem lacks some features, sound-wise they'd blow the others away. Starting price-point: 1'300$-ish. Worth considering?
  • If I go with a Marantz SR5007 with a pre-amp out, what kind of CD player would I need? Quality one or a standard model? Will the CD player or the AV receiver process the CD-ROM signal?
  • What music to bring to an audition. Of course, stuff I like, but I heard that modern music sometimes is lacking sound-quality. Are there well known songs people use to test speakers? Like a certain piano or bass heavy track that quickly bring speakers to their limits? I mainly used Tord Gustavsen - Curtains aside. I know the song/album in and out, there's a well played piano and very decent double-bass and percussion.

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post #26 of 120 Old 06-02-2013, 06:39 AM
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Salamandro, what are your impressions of the XBMC software? I have just started playing around with it, for the most part I am very impressed.

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post #27 of 120 Old 06-02-2013, 07:27 AM
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Which model Anthem and what price, specifically? So as to do a comparison with the Marantz 5007 features vs. price. Sometimes a dealer will recommend something just because that happens to be a line they carry. Anthem receivers, at least in the States, can be a bit on the pricey side.

If you're sending the audio data of your CD's to the receiver via HDMI, the player is acting as a transport only and the bitstream is handled by the processor and Digital-To-Analog-Converters (DAC's) in the receiver. If you ever add a better power amplifier to the pre-amp outputs of the receiver, it may negate any discernible sonic difference between the Anthem and Marantz lines... in fact, with a really good amplifier or amplifiers the Marantz combo might even blow past the Anthem and its internal amps.

As for a subwoofer, a lot depends on the volume of your room, and whether it's open or a closed, dedicated space. Bass frequencies tend to spread out more easily, so if the room is open, you have to compensate with a larger sub driver and more powerful amplifier. Sometimes it takes two or more subs to help smooth out these low frequencies in your room to tamp down either boominess due to frequency peaks, or lack of output due to frequency nulls.

Positioning of the sub or subs in the room can be a bit tricky, so it takes some time listening to it in various parts of the room. You can place the sub in the position of your main seating area and then crawl around on the floor to parts of the room and mark where it sounds the best to you, then place the sub or subs in those locations. Then calibrate the entire system.

Any good audiophile recordings of massed orchestra, stringed instruments (piano, cello, violin, harp, etc.), a woman vocalist, pipe organ, etc. would be good demo material since these are very difficult to reproduce accurately. Pop recordings tend not to be the best quality audio and are too processed and/or dynamically compressed to get an accurate feel for the speakers.

One particular rock recording (if you like rock) is supposed to be a good demo because of its reputation in the industry for excellent recording and mastering qualities (considering the genre) and is used in tuning studios: AC/DC's "Back In Black." Whodathunkit? smile.gif

Check out Zone and Region hacked Blu-ray players on this forum and elsewhere on the internet. There have been hardware mods made for the Oppo BDP-103 (even some from Australia and Europe), which would make it a great universal player (which supports CDs, SA-CD's, DVD-Audio, etc.). Lexicon and other high end manufacturers have used the Oppo players as the guts for their models and charged a steep premium for what is essentially the same unit you can get in the States for a lot less.

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post #28 of 120 Old 06-02-2013, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Salamandro, what are your impressions of the XBMC software? I have just started playing around with it, for the most part I am very impressed.
Can't say too much about it, yet. The only other media center software I've seen was Plex, and as far as I understood it's Plex that's easier to install an use, but it's XBMC if you want all the customization options. And so far it's looking good. Chose Aeon Nox for the skin and already added new main-menu items for Animes and stuff smile.gif There's hundreds of useful plugins, but it all depends on what you are looking for...
Problem is, I was planning to use my soon-to-be-delivered OUYA android console as an HTPC with XBMC in it, but it seems like OUYA does not support DTS pass-through. Will have to see if they add it in the coming months or if I have to look for another solution.
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Which model Anthem and what price, specifically? So as to do a comparison with the Marantz 5007 features vs. price. Sometimes a dealer will recommend something just because that happens to be a line they carry. Anthem receivers, at least in the States, can be a bit on the pricey side.
I'm not sure what model he was referring to. But as you say, I'm probably better off getting an AVR with a pre-amp out, and should I feel the need to upgrade, get a dedicated quality amp.
Quote:
One particular rock recording (if you like rock) is supposed to be a good demo because of its reputation in the industry for excellent recording and mastering qualities (considering the genre) and is used in tuning studios: AC/DC's "Back In Black." Whodathunkit? smile.gif
Yes, who would have smile.gif I do like rock, my dad might even have the album.
Quote:
Check out Zone and Region hacked Blu-ray players on this forum and elsewhere on the internet. There have been hardware mods made for the Oppo BDP-103 (even some from Australia and Europe), which would make it a great universal player (which supports CDs, SA-CD's, DVD-Audio, etc.). Lexicon and other high end manufacturers have used the Oppo players as the guts for their models and charged a steep premium for what is essentially the same unit you can get in the States for a lot less.
Hmm, OK. Haven't thought about what CD/DVD/Blurayplayer to get. Was even considering just to get a used PlayStation 3, but it would be rather inconvenient to always have to turn on the TV to play a CD wink.gif

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post #29 of 120 Old 06-02-2013, 02:47 PM
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Practical comment: If you have a good wireless network, using Airplay is a good way to have music in various locations. It provides the software and the links, but not the network, the amps or the speakers (like Sonos). And it's cheap now - Apple TV is < $100 per location in the US.

Not that relevant to this discussion, but:
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Originally Posted by Chevypower View Post

I'm trying to figure out all the hype about Sonos. Yes it has Airplay, like a lot of other devices, but I didn't think the sound quality was all that impressive (on the Play 5). Am I missing something, or is Sonos just the next Bose? I think some people are more in to the gadget than getting good sound. Please correct me if I am wrong. Anyway, have one really good system, rather than trying to get music in every room. Just my opinion.
Yes, of course you're missing something. You seem to be trying to.

The big thing is what it's for. Most people don't (a) sit in one spot and (b) do nothing but listen to music. Even people at AVS Forum have other stuff to do. Music is not the main course, it's a side dish. So optimizing the technicalities of sound with amps and speakers doesn't do anything to make the most of their real enjoyment of music in their lives.

Or to put it another way, hardly anyone uses their system the way you assume they do, when you give that advice. That's why people here ask, how do you use it, what are you trying to accomplish?

Also

1) It uses it's own wireless network. That alone removes a big hurdle for some people, though less these days.

2) More generally, ease of setup is worth a lot.

3) Convenience and selection. Tons of music at your fingertips. Literally.

BTW, it isn't Airplay.
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post #30 of 120 Old 06-02-2013, 03:11 PM
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@buzzy, it's just a conversation about audio equipment, no need to get upset. I gave my honest thoughts about it. Not "trying" to miss anything.
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