Klipsch RF42 or Andrew Jones' Pioneer FS52 (movies & games) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 06-14-2013, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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So I'm between two sets. I know I should just go listen, but haven't found a spot that has them setup to test together. My research shows that the Klipsch system is probably the 'better" system, but this particular Pioneer set gets great reviews. The question is in the space how much better is it and will I notice it when watching movies or playing Xbox?

Primary use: Movies & Games
Room size: 12' x 19' dedicated room

I have my eye on the Denon AVR-2113CI to power them, mostly for the upgrade in the calibration. I haven't done a lot of research on the receiver side yet.


Option A: Andrew Jones Designed Pioneer Setup

Pioneer FS52 Towers
Pioneer BS22 Bookshelves
Pioneer SP-C22 Center
TOTAL COST: $328


Option B: Klipsch Setup

Klipsch RF42 Towers
Klipsch RC 41 Bookshelves
Klipsch RC42 Center
TOTAL COST: $913


Another option would be a satellite setup, but I'm hearing most push me towards the tower/bookshelf setup.

Energy Take Classic Subwoofer/Satellite System
MartinLogan MLT-2 Home Theater System
Polk Audio TL1600 Speaker System

Getting close, then on to receiver, screen and projector.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 34 Old 06-14-2013, 09:50 AM
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Your room's not huge, but it's a good size, so for movies and gaming I'd go with bookshelf speakers + a CC speaker + a good sub.

If budget permits, I'd go with the Klipsch set-up:
Klipsch RB-41 II : $299/pr. x 2 = $598
Klipsch RC-42 II : $249
Total: $847

And add an SVS PB-1000 subwoofer ($499, shipped) when you've got the cash.

-- Edit --
What I would actually do, though, is start with...
- a pair of RB-51 II speakers ($419, shipped)
- an SVS PB-1000 sub ($499, shipped)
...and add an RC-52 II center and RB-41 II surrounds later on.
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post #3 of 34 Old 06-14-2013, 09:55 AM
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Klipsch is one of those speakers that you either love, or hate. Your Pioneer system is almost 1/3 the price, and well reviewed. It's becoming very hard to audition speakers in any kind of decent setting, and even then, they don't always sound the same once you get them home. At least try to buy from someplace that will allow you to return if you don't like them. Plan on budgeting for a sub to go with either of those systems, especially for your intended use.
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post #4 of 34 Old 06-14-2013, 09:57 AM
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mbuck, what is your budget for speakers? And are you planning on getting a sub? If not I would strongly suggest a sub. Does this budget include a sub or do you have extra funds for it?

Shawn
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post #5 of 34 Old 06-14-2013, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry. Yes, I will be buying a sub but I haven't looked at which one.

I'm fairly flexible with budget, though probably in that $1000 range. Of course if I can save money and still get great sound, like w the Pioneer, that's great and maybe can afford something like that nicer Denon or towards the screen or projector.

I'm not sure where to balance that budget; more towards speakers or receiver and maybe as the above points out a nice subwoofer (though I'm not a big thump until it rattles my teeth kinda guy)
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post #6 of 34 Old 06-14-2013, 10:27 AM
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Grab the Klipsch RW-12D from NewEgg while they're still available.
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post #7 of 34 Old 06-14-2013, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's a bundled option, Klipsch plus a Bic subwoofer. http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-RF-42II-Theater-Bundle-FREE-Acoustech/dp/B005F6OFTQ/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=2OQGWAX1WSTSX&coliid=I4L324AJN109R

Again, I do want the best setup for movies & games that I can afford but that setup is nearly 4x the price and I'm all for saving some money. Though it is impressive and if it pays off I'm all for it.

I will say the build quality on the Klipsch vs. Pioneer was nice, for example the magnet cover, the overall finish.
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post #8 of 34 Old 06-14-2013, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Your room's not huge, but it's a good size, so for movies and gaming I'd go with bookshelf speakers + a CC speaker + a good sub.

If budget permits, I'd go with the Klipsch set-up:
Klipsch RB-41 II : $299/pr. x 2 = $598
Klipsch RC-42 II : $249
Total: $847

And add an SVS PB-1000 subwoofer ($499, shipped) when you've got the cash.

-- Edit --
What I would actually do, though, is start with...
- a pair of RB-51 II speakers ($419, shipped)
- an SVS PB-1000 sub ($499, shipped)
...and add an RC-52 II center and RB-41 II surrounds later on.

But since my main viewing is movies and then games, wouldn't the sub center play a bigger role?

Those bookshelf speakers are better than their towers?

And that setup looks to land around $2000 vs. the Pioneer setup at $325...will I see, rather hear, the almost 7x payoff?
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post #9 of 34 Old 06-14-2013, 10:53 AM
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If you are keen on the Klipsch sound, but don't like the price tag as much, BIC Acoustech might be a good option. This would be a great system, giving you plenty of dynamics for movies/games, and it would come with the PL-200 which is a solid sub. The good thing too is you can use the make an offer feature on this site, and ask what the lowest price they can do, usually its a good deal less: http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/core/view_BigProduct.cfm?pid=1540&sc=27

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post #10 of 34 Old 06-14-2013, 10:54 AM
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In My opinion and maybe only mine...the speakers of importance to HT are
1. L/R speakers
2a. Subwoofer
2b. Center
3. Surrounds

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #11 of 34 Old 06-14-2013, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
But since my main viewing is movies and then games, wouldn't the sub center play a bigger role?
IMO, good mains will give you good "phantom center" imaging, but without a good sub, you'll be missing content and output down to (and below) 20Hz.
Quote:
And that setup looks to land around $2000 vs. the Pioneer setup at $325...will I see, rather hear, the almost 7x payoff?
Add a sub to that Pioneer set-up, because even with the towers you won't get the kind of bass you'll want for movies. So now you're at ~$825.

Is the Klipsch set-up worth over twice the price? I honestly don't know. But IMO the Pioneer set-up is something I'd be wanting to upgrade from sooner than I would the Klipsch set-up.

Just my 2¢ and, as always, YMMV. smile.gif
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post #12 of 34 Old 06-14-2013, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll check out the BIC setup.

The truth is I'm not necessarily keen on the sound as I've not been able to get a good example of it. In a Fry's store it all kinda sounds similar, I'm standing up, not in a closed room, etc. Like the above poster said, it's hard to get a good sample audition if you're not spending 10k on a speaker.
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post #13 of 34 Old 06-14-2013, 11:07 AM
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Well you can audition, just need to find manufacturers that offer demos. Have you looked at Ascend Acoustics? You could get the CBM-170SE LR and CMT-340SE C for $600 shipped. These are very well regarded speakers, they offer a no-risk 30-day trial, and you can find a lot of information on the owner's thread here or the Ascend forums. This leaves you $400 for a sub woofer, I would try and squeeze in an extra 100 and go with the SVS PB-1000 sub. It will compliment those Ascends nicely and really give you good low end extension for movies and games. Later on, add some surrounds (they don't need to match), and you will have a nice setup.

I would give them a try, you can also go get the Pioneers from Best Buy and try both speakers together. See first hand if spending double the money is worth it to you, and then return the ones you don't want.

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post #14 of 34 Old 06-14-2013, 11:10 AM
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... You could get the CBM-170SE LR and CMT-340SE C for $600 shipped. ... This leaves you $400 for a sub woofer, I would try and squeeze in an extra 100 and go with the SVS PB-1000 sub. ... Later on, add some surrounds (they don't need to match), and you will have a nice setup.
+1. That sounds like a solid package.
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post #15 of 34 Old 06-14-2013, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

Well you can audition, just need to find manufacturers that offer demos. Have you looked at Ascend Acoustics? You could get the CBM-170SE LR and CMT-340SE C for $600 shipped. These are very well regarded speakers, they offer a no-risk 30-day trial, and you can find a lot of information on the owner's thread here or the Ascend forums. This leaves you $400 for a sub woofer, I would try and squeeze in an extra 100 and go with the SVS PB-1000 sub. It will compliment those Ascends nicely and really give you good low end extension for movies and games. Later on, add some surrounds (they don't need to match), and you will have a nice setup.

I would give them a try, you can also go get the Pioneers from Best Buy and try both speakers together. See first hand if spending double the money is worth it to you, and then return the ones you don't want.

I bought the Pioneers a couple days ago, the price I'm quoting is a Fry's sales price. So I grabbed them knowing I could return them. So maybe I just need to grab that Denon receiver (is the 2113 the right direction there?) and give it a spin. If it doesn't work I'll box em up and find a new set.
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post #16 of 34 Old 06-14-2013, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post


-- Edit --
What I would actually do, though, is start with...
- a pair of RB-51 II speakers ($419, shipped)
- an SVS PB-1000 sub ($499, shipped)
...and add an RC-52 II center and RB-41 II surrounds later on.

Why the bookshelf set instead of towers + bookshelf?

Amazon offers that full set, including surrounds and a sub for under $900. It's not an amazing sub it doesn't look like, but that does bring the price point way down.

http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-RB-41II-Home-Theater-System-FREE/dp/B004XQM25S/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1371267353&sr=8-3&keywords=Klipsch+RB-41+II
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post #17 of 34 Old 06-14-2013, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I did stop into Best Buy today, gave some B&W 686 and Energy cb-10 a spin. Both sounded nice...the Energy we're quite nice especially given the price. All bookshelf speakers.

Thoughts on those two brands?
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post #18 of 34 Old 06-14-2013, 10:03 PM
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With the B&W, I'd go for the 685's over the 686. Haven't heard the energys. Quite a jump from the bs22's at $77 a pair to B&W's. At some point you're just going to make a decision. You've already bought the Pioneers, why not listen to them and give them a try? You can look for speaker suggestions till your eyes spin.
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post #19 of 34 Old 06-14-2013, 10:14 PM
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You'll be happy with the Pioneers....Andrew Jones is no slouch, especially when given the challenge of designing a great sounding inexpensive set of speakers. Can you do better? Of course, just get out your wallet. For a good 15" sub, check out the $200 Theater Solutions 15 F on Amazon. You'll have a nice sounding system on a budget, that you can recoup most of your money on down the road should you decide to upgrade.

Why go out to a movie theater?
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post #20 of 34 Old 06-15-2013, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I grabbed the Pioneer's, Energy CB-10 and the Klipsch R52...going to give each pair a spin and I'll let you know my thoughts.

It'll be a bit of a hassle having to swap each one out, but the only way I'm going to find out.
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post #21 of 34 Old 06-16-2013, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quick update:

First: The Denon 2113 that I bought was DOA, right channel was all messed up. Grabbed an open box Pioneer SC-61s for $600 and everything is working like a charm. We'll see if I keep that, it was actually the one they used for demos, so not really open box.

First listen, I think I like the Energy CB-10 (though I'd upgrade to the CB-20) over the Klipsch. The tower had more bass, but overall sound was just nicer on the Energy. But again it was a quick test, one song...I'll test it, and the Pioneer, more tonight with a movie running. That'll be the real test.


update: a few run throughs of the opening of Cars (hey, it's what I had). The Klipsch are definitely some nice towers, the Energy hold their own and the Pioneer really sounded nice too...definitely didn't sound like a $150 pair of speakers.

Of course the question is will I notice a big difference ongoing with the Klipsch (running $600 for the pair) over the Energy ($300) or Pioneer ($200). Of course I'll be adding subwoofer, center and side surrounds too.

Running through a few more listens tomorrow night with our sound engineer from church, he'll certainly be able to point out some differences.
Edited by mbuck - Today at 12:11 am
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post #22 of 34 Old 06-17-2013, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbuck View Post

Quick update:

First: The Denon 2113 that I bought was DOA, right channel was all messed up. Grabbed an open box Pioneer SC-61s for $600 and everything is working like a charm. We'll see if I keep that, it was actually the one they used for demos, so not really open box.

First listen, I think I like the Energy CB-10 (though I'd upgrade to the CB-20) over the Klipsch. The tower had more bass, but overall sound was just nicer on the Energy. But again it was a quick test, one song...I'll test it, and the Pioneer, more tonight with a movie running. That'll be the real test.


update: a few run throughs of the opening of Cars (hey, it's what I had). The Klipsch are definitely some nice towers, the Energy hold their own and the Pioneer really sounded nice too...definitely didn't sound like a $150 pair of speakers.

Of course the question is will I notice a big difference ongoing with the Klipsch (running $600 for the pair) over the Energy ($300) or Pioneer ($200). Of course I'll be adding subwoofer, center and side surrounds too.

Running through a few more listens tomorrow night with our sound engineer from church, he'll certainly be able to point out some differences.
Edited by mbuck - Today at 12:11 am
Great test! Do you have any analysis software like REW to see the comparison?

Why go out to a movie theater?
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post #23 of 34 Old 06-17-2013, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Those Pioneer's blow my mind for the price I paid. $150 for the pair and they give the Klipsh RF-52 a good run.

The Energy bookshelf speakers are nice speakers, but too nice. Both of these towers blow it away.

The Pioneer sounds great, honestly, if I had moved in here and those were in place I'd enjoy them and probably not think about replacing them. But then I switch over the Klipsch (sure wish there was a way to switch more quickly than unhooking and rehooking them up) and that Klipsch brings a new layer to the sound, more immersive.

The Pioneer's feel a bit muddy but still very strong.

On a scale of 1-10, the Pioneers are a 6 and the Klipsch are an 8 (and I can't afford the speakers that would get 9/10).

Now to wrestle with if it's worth the extra 4x the price. Not an easy call to make but I do want a system that I put in place and enjoy it. I don't plan on replacing anything later.

Now, if I bought the Pioneers I could get a better projector (currently looking at Benq W1070) or nicer screen (looking at Elites now) and easily add in the full 7 speakers instead of 5.

Any advice out there?
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post #24 of 34 Old 06-17-2013, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Great test! Do you have any analysis software like REW to see the comparison?

I don't. Just my untrained ears.
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post #25 of 34 Old 06-18-2013, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
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UPDATE: I have officially boxed up all the speakers except for....

The Klipsch speakers. They're just great sounding speakers, giving the most movie like experience.

If you're looking at the Pioneer's do yourself a favor. Buy them. Don't compare them to a big hitter like the Klipsch. If I had simply bought them based on the great reviews I'm certain I would've been happy. They would've done the job really well. But for me, these are the speakers I will have in that home theater permanently. So I wanted the best I could get with the budget I had.

The soundtrack that did it in for me: Sweeny Todd, the track after he lets the governor go. Klipsch brought it to life.
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post #26 of 34 Old 06-18-2013, 07:56 PM
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Your ears are your best judge! Congrats, enjoy them.

Why go out to a movie theater?
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post #27 of 34 Old 06-18-2013, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Very true.

I may, after I return all the others, grab a higher grade bookshelf set to try. Maybe even the larger Klipsch; many are telling me that you don't need towers when you're using a sub for ht. Worth a quick listen.
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post #28 of 34 Old 06-20-2013, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone know how the Klipsch S-10 pair match up to the RB-52 pair?

I don't know if multi-directional is as awesome as the ht guy said it was (he was trying to sell Paradigms) but maybe an option?

I'll be running either the RB-52s or RF-52 for the front, likely the RW12D for subwoofer.
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post #29 of 34 Old 06-20-2013, 12:18 PM
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^^^^^^

How many different threads are you going to ask the same question?

They'll be fine!

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post #30 of 34 Old 06-20-2013, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry afrog, there were different people on each thread...just trying to get as many good opinions as I could.

Certainly didn't mean to offend you.
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