Bookshelf speaker recommendation for $400 budget for the pair in a 2 channel setup for music - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 83 Old 06-20-2013, 11:15 AM
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In the past when I've run a sub in a two channel system with mains that weren't full range, I've always gone speaker level from my amp to the sub's inputs then speaker level from the sub's outputs to my mains, allowing the sub's internal crossover to handle bass management. I've done this with a few setups (though the most memorable for me was a set of B&W Matrix 805s paired with a Velodyne active servo 12" sub) and I was happy with the result. The only downside I can think of using this method off the top of my head could be possible interference issues with really long speaker cables picking up noise from other electronics but I personally never had that happen. These days I prefer to run large full range speakers and I'll add a sub (without crossing over my mains so bass is handled by the mains and the sub simultaneously) only if I really need it.

Sorry to take this OT, but I wanted to share my thoughts on the subject with the OP. Back to speaker talk... of the options mentioned here, my vote still stands with the LSi7s - for whatever my opinion is worth :-)
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post #62 of 83 Old 06-20-2013, 11:34 AM
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+1 This is a good approach of the sub supports it, although a bit of a kludge. As indicated, the biggest pain is having to run additional speaker cables.

+1 on the Polk LSi too, my favorites of those suggested, with Kef Q100 running a close second (naturally wink.gif )

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post #63 of 83 Old 06-20-2013, 04:18 PM
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Most music doesn't go below 40hz. So there is no need for a sub in a 2 channel system if the mains are spangle. And all the bookshelfs described here are capable

Now it is true the midrange may open up if the bass is handled by a sub. And I have a VERY capable sub.

I am just saying having a sub and an avr w bass management shouldn't be a deal breaker.

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post #64 of 83 Old 06-21-2013, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

Most music doesn't go below 40hz. So there is no need for a sub in a 2 channel system if the mains are spangle. And all the bookshelfs described here are capable

Now it is true the midrange may open up if the bass is handled by a sub. And I have a VERY capable sub.

I am just saying having a sub and an avr w bass management shouldn't be a deal breaker.

Most music does go below 40Hz. The typical cutoff seems to be around 35Hz or so it seems, with many songs reaching 30Hz and even lower.

I have playlists of regular songs with low extending bass tracks. Hotel California is known to drop to 25Hz with the bass drum kicks.

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post #65 of 83 Old 06-21-2013, 11:15 AM
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This is an interesting, interactive chart that covers most musical instruments except synthes.

Hover over the chart bars & specific info on that instrument will appear in the small windows on the right:

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm

BTW, my 5-String Electric Bass will reach down to 30Hz on its Open B-String. That note is not played that often, but it is there to be played if desired. Similarly, the largest Pipe Organs in cathedrals can reach down to 16 Hz.

In my audio only system, twin Axiom EP400s subs reach cleanly down to ~20 Hz or so. Yesterday they really shook the floor when playing TELARC's outstanding 'Time Warp' CD from 1984. Lots of really low, uncompressed, non-EQed, high quality bass throughout. This is a very dynamic CD that covers the quietest passages of famous movie scores up to full bore. I like it, ha!!

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post #66 of 83 Old 06-21-2013, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-labdriver View Post

This is an interesting, interactive chart that covers most musical instruments except synthes.

Hover over the chart bars & specific info on that instrument will appear in the small windows on the right:

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm

BTW, my 5-String Electric Bass will reach down to 30Hz on its Open B-String. That note is not played that often, but it is there to be played if desired. Similarly, the largest Pipe Organs in cathedrals can reach down to 16 Hz.

In my audio only system, twin Axiom EP400s subs reach cleanly down to ~20 Hz or so. Yesterday they really shook the floor when playing TELARC's outstanding 'Time Warp' CD from 1984. Lots of really low, uncompressed, non-EQed, high quality bass throughout. This is a very dynamic CD that covers the quietest passages of famous movie scores up to full bore. I like it, ha!!

TAM

That is pretty cool.

Would be cool to see a more detailed "Kick" drum area though. I know back in high school we had large bass drums that surely produced bass lower than 30Hz. Probably closer to 20Hz I'd say when we really loosened it up.

Marcus Miller - Moonlight Sonata comes to mind when talking about low bass guitar playing. For sure the bass line in that song drops to around 30Hz. Is it possible the bass can resonate to lower than 30Hz? If you have a capable sub this song really sounds awesome.

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post #67 of 83 Old 06-21-2013, 12:41 PM
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Yeah most instruments don't play notes down below 40hz but most bookshelves don't slam at 40-50hz like a good sub will. As someone else mentioned it's also nice to add that presence with the kick drums that only a sub can do.
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post #68 of 83 Old 06-21-2013, 04:36 PM
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When my electric bass B-String is tuned lower, it loses tension & the sound becomes flabby & incoherent & really becomes unplayable. Perhaps upright acoustic basses can go lower but the chart doesn't seem to say that.

I don't know if harmonics go lower, but my 100 Watt 15" Ampeg Bass Amp plays the 30 Hz note easily...

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post #69 of 83 Old 06-22-2013, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to everyone who gave some input. I think I have enough information now to make an educated/informed decision! The digression about amps and avr's and crossovers and ohms was still informative.

I will post an update in the future on what I ultimately decide to get.

Thanks again.
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post #70 of 83 Old 06-22-2013, 12:03 PM
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Looking forward to your updates! Good luck and enjoy the journey!
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post #71 of 83 Old 06-30-2013, 10:41 AM
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I'm in the same boat as the OP so I'm wondering what did he/she settle on? I also have an Emotiva mini-x a-100 on the way and I currently have a pair of Aperion B4's in cherry that I'm pretty happy with. I'd like some speakers with some more bass, and black speakers aren't an option. I do have space issues, and the B4's have a great compact footprint. Here are the speakers I'm considering, would any of these be an improvement over the Aperions or do I just have a case of upgraditis and need to stay put? My max budget is $400, but I'd like to be closer to 300.

Mordaunt Short Aviano 1's $249 a pair
Mordaunt Short Aviano 2's $269 a pair (I know these will have more bass but I'm concerned about the size)
Mordaunt Short Mezzo 1's $400 a pair
Epos Epic 1's $300 a pair
Epos Epic 2's $400 a pair (maybe too big)
KEF Q100's $400 a pair
Gallo Classico CL-1's $500 a pair (over my budget but maybe worth it?)
PSB B6's $350 used

These all seem like great value speakers, but do any of these stand out to you as clearly head-and-shoulders over the others, and better than the B4's?
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post #72 of 83 Old 06-30-2013, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abd1 View Post

I'm in the same boat as the OP so I'm wondering what did he/she settle on? I also have an Emotiva mini-x a-100 on the way and I currently have a pair of Aperion B4's in cherry that I'm pretty happy with. I'd like some speakers with some more bass, and black speakers aren't an option.

The Asperion B4's have a rated -3db low frequency roll off of 120hz and -6db of 100hz, which means that they are very lacking in mid bass. If you want bass, you just need a sub. smile.gif

Got room for an Outlaw Audio M8? Here's a review that descibes the M8 with Asperion Audio speakers: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20042164-47.html

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post #73 of 83 Old 06-30-2013, 12:32 PM
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I've had a sub hooked up to this system and it was a great sound, but don't have a space for a sub right now. This isn't my main system. It's in an eat in kitchen so trying to minimize footprint. I might just hang on to the B4's until I can sell them and then look again at speakers.
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post #74 of 83 Old 06-30-2013, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abd1 View Post

I've had a sub hooked up to this system and it was a great sound, but don't have a space for a sub right now. This isn't my main system. It's in an eat in kitchen so trying to minimize footprint. I might just hang on to the B4's until I can sell them and then look again at speakers.

Be sure to look at the frequency response on the low end. Typically, speakers that have a -3db in the 50hz to 60hz range would be a good improvement in midbass output, although 4" drivers in small speakers will be a limitation on bass volume. Anything with a rolloff as high as the B4s really is meant to be run with a sub to get any midbass.

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post #75 of 83 Old 07-08-2013, 10:24 PM - Thread Starter
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So, updates since we've last discussed things:

I have not gotten speakers yet, instead decided to explore vinyl a bit first, so i picked up the audio-technica at-lp120 for about $215. Obviously spent about half of my budget there. Anyway...

The first logical step was to hook that up to my logitech x530's which i already had... still super unhappy with the boominess of the low end, everything else, etc.

I hooked up my girlfriend's sony CMTMX500i mini hi-fi system (receiver with two bookshelf speakers, ~4" drivers) to the turntable using line level outputs (from the turntable's built in pre-amp)... had to turn volume to over 80% of maximum to get decent output from vinyl source. It's output more than acceptable with iPods (which is how we used it in the bedroom prior to this experiment). Alright, so that's out of the equation as a quick fix.

Then, a friend lent me a pair of yamaha HS50M powered monitors to try out (5" drivers). I love the sound, right amount of bass for now, and could add a sub (with some difficult wiring configuration?) and it's perfect for my space since there's no need for an extra amp to clutter things.

i can get those new for $260 for the pair.

Also i hear great things about the pioneer andrew jones' designed sp-bs22-lr bookshelves which are back to the 4" driver (like the sony's i tried earlier). If i got those with an AVR (about $180-200 refurb on accesories4less... yes i have decided that if i go that route it will be an avr rather than the emotive or something similar) it would put me right around $300-330.

so. obviously if i throw studio monitors into the equation I know there are many more options than the yamaha's i am currently auditioning that i should consider as well. BUT, my main question is: If it's only 50 bucks more for an AVR + passive bookshelf system, which would allow almost limitless system expansion and simple future subwoofer integration, that should be a no brainer right?
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post #76 of 83 Old 09-15-2013, 04:38 PM
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I have the Insignia - 6-1/2" Bass-Reflex Bookshelf Speakers:

http://www.insigniaproducts.com/products/home-audio-systems/NS-B2111.html

Connected (switched out for the standard speakers) to the LG CM4530 Mini Hi-Fi System:

http://www.lg.com/us/home-theater-systems/lg-CM4530-home-theater-system

Its a really exceptional combo...especially for the $$$....biggrin.gif
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post #77 of 83 Old 09-15-2013, 05:21 PM
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post #78 of 83 Old 09-15-2013, 05:24 PM
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If you can spend the extra $50 these Focal's might be worth it.
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-41246-focal-chorus-706v-bookshelf-speakers-pr.aspx?source=igodigital&

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post #79 of 83 Old 09-15-2013, 05:49 PM
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I love how a lot of ppl on a different thread commented how Cambridge S30s ($220) are as good as any speaker in the $400-$500 range yet no one mentioned them on this thread. Ask ten ppl a question and get 11 answers! Not saying that's bad but it is kinda funny.
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post #80 of 83 Old 09-15-2013, 05:53 PM
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The Cambridge SX-60 is available now. 6.5" woofer instead of the 4.5" woofer which is on the S30.
http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Audio-SX-60-Stand-Speakers/dp/B00ELKQBJ4/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_6

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post #81 of 83 Old 09-15-2013, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieper53 View Post

I love how a lot of ppl on a different thread commented how Cambridge S30s ($220) are as good as any speaker in the $400-$500 range yet no one mentioned them on this thread. Ask ten ppl a question and get 11 answers! Not saying that's bad but it is kinda funny.

I don't think many people actually say the S30 sounds better than "any" $400 speaker, but rather they sound better than a lot of, or maybe even most, $400 speakers. I tend to look at it this way ... at most price points there are a select few speakers that are best-bang-for-the-buck.

So, if someone has a strict budget of $200 ($170 now on closeout at accessories4less) then I would be the first to recommend the S30. But there are some standouts in the $350-$450 range also - Ascend 170's, KEF Q100's, Monitor Audio BX2, Focal 705V (or the 706V, on sale now for $450), etc.
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post #82 of 83 Old 11-24-2013, 09:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I know I've been absent from my own thread for a while, but i thought i'd share the results of this mission to provide some closure; again thank you to everyone who responded.

In the end i went with the AVR route. Ended up with the Yamaha RX-V375. It was the lowest priced AVR I liked (decided to go with a new yamaha over an onkyo refurb) which included a digital (usb) input for my iPod (a more recent desired feature of mine). I am quite happy with it.

For speakers i decided to go with the Pioneer SP-FS52-LR andrew jones designed towers. I am more than happy with them. They have plenty of bass for music and 80% of most movie soundtracks (I'm sure my lady would say it's too much already, but i do plan to add a sub still in the future to get that last bit of impact out of the HD soundtracks of blu-ray... i noticed the shortcomings during, for example, the paris market scene in "Inception".)

I know i could have gone with the two pioneer bookshelves from the andrew jones line and a 200 ish dollar sub, or the two towers for about the same price. In the end it came down to the fact that the most recently introduced desire to use these for movies as well as music put a stronger demand on speaker placement. The listening area would be different than the one previously used exclusively for music. The towers handily placed the tweeters at couch listening ear level, while i would have needed additional stands for the bookshelves. I'm also still a fan of the, imo, more seamless bass integration that towers lend to music playback.

It's been fun.
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post #83 of 83 Old 11-27-2013, 02:04 PM
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Awesome setup. smile.gif

When you get ready to buy a sub and if you are looking for a good deal, be sure to ask questions in the budget subwoofer thread: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1396482/budget-subwoofers-discussions-opinions-and-questions-thread

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