Why are my Paradigm Monitor 9 Speakers quieter in some instances? - AVS Forum

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BeyondBelief's Avatar BeyondBelief
10:01 PM Liked: 10
post #1 of 14
06-28-2013 | Posts: 5
Joined: Jun 2013
Hello everyone.

Without getting into to much technical stuff I was wondering why my speakers volume level decreases at certain times. This of course meaning no buttons are hit and seems to do it on its own. My setup includes a Denon AVR-1612 two Paradigm Monitor series 9 speakers and a Paradigm PDR-10 sub woofer. We have had these for awhile now and the speakers have always done this. It seems when a new piece of audio is introduced the speakers (or sub) causes the volume to bog down and its most noticable when a loud noise occurs such as an explosion on a film or many instruments start during a song. Any ideas on why this is happening? I have good speaker wires and cables and nothing is damaged by any means. I was thinking the sub might be coming in conflict with the bass of the tower speakers.... I'm not a audiophile but It would be nice to get this fixed as the speakers have been awesome so far!

Thanks!
grasshoppers's Avatar grasshoppers
10:21 PM Liked: 170
post #2 of 14
06-28-2013 | Posts: 1,935
Joined: Dec 2008
Have you run Audyessey yet? Did you go into the menu options
And set the speakers to "small"? Doing this will send all low bass
Notes to your sub. This will keep the Denon from running out of
Power during loud peaks that have low frequencies in them.
darthray's Avatar darthray
10:29 PM Liked: 150
post #3 of 14
06-28-2013 | Posts: 1,137
Joined: Jul 2005
I am not familiar with your speaker.

But it sound to me like some sort of internal protection system to stop the drivers to go beyond failure point (lower the volume you for extra demanding scene, just like night mode).
Also make sure your Audio processor/ receiver is not set on night mode.

Some manufacture use this, so if the speaker go more than it is able to do, it will not self distroyed.

Hope this help.

Ray
darthray's Avatar darthray
10:31 PM Liked: 150
post #4 of 14
06-28-2013 | Posts: 1,137
Joined: Jul 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

Have you run Audyessey yet? Did you go into the menu options
And set the speakers to "small"? Doing this will send all low bass
Notes to your sub. This will keep the Denon from running out of
Power during loud peaks that have low frequencies in them.

Very good.
I forgot about the basics:eek:

Ray
BeyondBelief's Avatar BeyondBelief
10:48 PM Liked: 10
post #5 of 14
06-28-2013 | Posts: 5
Joined: Jun 2013
Thanks for the responses.

Upon writing the post I was going through the options and I did notice that Audyessey was on evening mode so I changed it to day so thanks for confirming that. It's a little late to be messing with it as most of my family is asleep so I can't test it. Plus even when the volume wasn't loud during songs and such the volume decrease still happened so its not a power problem by any means I'm sure. Not sure if my setup is perfect but I knew there might be some controversy between the frequency of the sub and frequency through the towers. Can someone confirm what the optimal frequency should be for the sub just to double check what I have it at. Is there a frequency range? Or is it simply anything lower than the value that is set simply is gone through the sub?
darthray's Avatar darthray
11:03 PM Liked: 150
post #6 of 14
06-28-2013 | Posts: 1,137
Joined: Jul 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeyondBelief View Post

Thanks for the responses.

Upon writing the post I was going through the options and I did notice that Audyessey was on evening mode so I changed it to day so thanks for confirming that. It's a little late to be messing with it as most of my family is asleep so I can't test it. Plus even when the volume wasn't loud during songs and such the volume decrease still happened so its not a power problem by any means I'm sure. Not sure if my setup is perfect but I knew there might be some controversy between the frequency of the sub and frequency through the towers. Can someone confirm what the optimal frequency should be for the sub just to double check what I have it at. Is there a frequency range? Or is it simply anything lower than the value that is set simply is gone through the sub?

I see Grasshoppers hit the nail on the head.
Most people set there speakers at 80Hz and let the sub take care of what is below.

Ray
grasshoppers's Avatar grasshoppers
11:15 PM Liked: 170
post #7 of 14
06-28-2013 | Posts: 1,935
Joined: Dec 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post

I see Grasshoppers hit the nail on the head.
Most people set there speakers at 80Hz and let the sub take care of what is below.

Ray

I looked at the specs of the speakers... you could go as low as 60hz if you
wanted. The Monitor 9 is speced down to 50hz. 80hz is the most widely
used crossover setting.

The crossover setting on the back of the sub should be at its Max setting.
You didnt say if you have run Audyssey yet???

I have a feeling the night mode setting might take care of your issues for
the most part.

I NEVER use that feature so I dont even think about it... good call Ray
BeyondBelief's Avatar BeyondBelief
11:25 PM Liked: 10
post #8 of 14
06-28-2013 | Posts: 5
Joined: Jun 2013
Okay so I managed to look at the settings hopefully without making to much noise! Here is what I have.

Under Speaker Configuration tab
Front speakers is set to small. Center None. Sub woofer Yes. Surround None. So far it makes makes sense.

Under Audyessey tab
Audyessey Dynamic Equalizer is ON. Reference Offset is 0 dB. Dynamic Volume is set to Day.

Bass Settings tab
Sub woofer mode LFE+Main. LPF for LPE 80Hz.

Distance Tab
Distance from speakers and sub was set with included microphone and is right on the money.

Crossover frequency tab
Set to Advanced and says front is at 120Hz (should this be 80Hz as mentioned above?)

Also there is two switches on the back of the sub which say crossover either "Variable" or "Bypass", Phase either 180 degrees or 0, and a low frequency dial which can be turned freely between 50Hz and 200Hz if that would make a big difference but I'm pretty sure I have a a default setting for all of them.

The sound still goes quiet with these setting btw!
grasshoppers's Avatar grasshoppers
11:40 PM Liked: 170
post #9 of 14
06-28-2013 | Posts: 1,935
Joined: Dec 2008
Try to turn off Audyssey Dynamic Equalizer. see if that helps.

Sub-woofer should be to LFE only...otherwise you are duplicating sub sound with your Main Speakers.

Crossover Freq is definitely WRONG. Audyssey should not be setting your speakers that high.
The setting of 120hz is what you see when you have small satellite speakers. You shouldnt
just change it down to 80HZ. That is not recommended. Sounds like a mistake may have been
made when you ran Audyssey. Did you run all 6 measurement positions?

On the back of your sub set it to "bypass"

Looks like you have more work to do. wink.gif
BeyondBelief's Avatar BeyondBelief
12:03 AM Liked: 10
post #10 of 14
06-29-2013 | Posts: 5
Joined: Jun 2013
Thanks for all the responses grasshopper I appreciate it!

I'm not sure if I can run Audyssey setup by itself upon going through the options, just an auto setup which I did when we got the speakers. The denon used a single wired microphone and said to only place it in up to 3 places if I can remember correctly according to where you sit which I did. However now looking at the status parameters of the autosetup it says different information than what is in the actual setup or so I thought. I'll list out what it says.

Speaker Config tab is the same as above

Distance Tab is the same as above

Channel Level Tab
L and R is at -2.5dB Sub is at -12db (sub is much lower here)

Crossover Check Tab
Front 40Hz (does this sound more normal than 120hz?}

Under the Audyssey Tab
It shows a bunch of different readings depending on the frequency and adjusts the dB reading accordingly I'm guessing. Most likely automatic from the auto setup correct?

Also not sure what Audyssey Flat is or if it should be used. What frequency should the dial on the back of the sub be set to? It shows between 50Hz-200Hz. Also the "Phase" should it be 0 or 180 degrees?

Edit:
I'll try running without audyessey tomorrow but I think I have tried that to no prevail. Could be wrong though
DougReim's Avatar DougReim
06:10 AM Liked: 23
post #11 of 14
06-29-2013 | Posts: 464
Joined: Jan 2003
Try turning Audyssey off completely. I'm not sure of the exactly what version your 1612 runs but it sounds like you have a compression mode turned on.
grasshoppers's Avatar grasshoppers
08:03 AM Liked: 170
post #12 of 14
06-29-2013 | Posts: 1,935
Joined: Dec 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeyondBelief View Post

Thanks for all the responses grasshopper I appreciate it!

I'm not sure if I can run Audyssey setup by itself upon going through the options, just an auto setup which I did when we got the speakers. The denon used a single wired microphone and said to only place it in up to 3 places if I can remember correctly according to where you sit which I did. However now looking at the status parameters of the autosetup it says different information than what is in the actual setup or so I thought. I'll list out what it

******Multi-EQ should have 6 mic spots.******


Channel Level Tab
L and R is at -2.5dB Sub is at -12db (sub is much lower here)
******this means when you ran Audyssey you had the sub volume on the back of the
Sub set a little too high*****.

Crossover Check Tab
Front 40Hz (does this sound more normal than 120hz?}
*******This is MUCH better...go ahead and Raise it to 60hz or 80hz.******

Under the Audyssey Tab
It shows a bunch of different readings depending on the frequency and adjusts the dB reading accordingly I'm guessing. Most likely automatic from the auto setup correct?

Also not sure what Audyssey Flat is or if it should be used. What frequency should the dial on the back of the sub be set to? It shows between 50Hz-200Hz. Also the "Phase" should it be 0 or 180 degrees

*******Just use "Audyssey"-- not flat. As noted above sub dial should be turned to "200hz"
Or with the switch on the back set to "bypass". Phase set to "0"******
]

grasshoppers's Avatar grasshoppers
09:09 AM Liked: 170
post #13 of 14
06-29-2013 | Posts: 1,935
Joined: Dec 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeyondBelief View Post

Hello everyone.

Without getting into to much technical stuff I was wondering why my speakers volume level decreases at certain times!

I downloaded your owners manual and was glancing thru it. Under the "Advanced Settings" section I found something called
the "Fader Function?" I'm wondering if that has values set-up in it. It would certainly cause the effect you are describing in
your original post if this is the case.

Might be time to do a reset on your AVR and start over from scratch. There seems to be alot of settings
that could cause what you are hearing and/or any combination.

In any case, I know that it would drive me nuts too!
bowmah's Avatar bowmah
12:12 AM Liked: 16
post #14 of 14
09-01-2013 | Posts: 842
Joined: Nov 2006
Denons have a speaker crossover and some other cross over set at 120 Hz. Leave that at 120. For each speaker, set to 80 Hz. Change dynamic volume to day. Enable dynamic volume and dynamic EQ. These will help in general. You paid for some smart technology, use it and see if you like it.

Grashoppers is right. Set sub to LFE only.

See how this setup works for you. It works well for most people.
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