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post #1 of 78 Old 07-01-2013, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a $2,000 budget to buy a 7.1 (or 7.2 if it fits within my budget) speaker system. The question I have is essentially should I spend $1,000 on a sub and $1,000 on the left, center, right and surrounds, or $500 on a sub and $1,500 on lcr and surrounds? For example, which of the following would be a better system for approximately $2,000:

Hsu Hybrid 15 7.1 package (1 VTF-15H sub, 6 HB-1 MK2 bookshelves, 1 HC-1 MK2 center)

vs.

A 7.1 system with a Rythmik LV12R sub and Emp Tek speakers (2 E55Ti towers, 1 E56Ci center, 4 E5Bi bookshelves)

Also, among the following speaker companies, which are better for a home theater:

HTD
Emp
Ascend
Arx
Axiom
Hsu
Aperion

For background, I have a 19' x 11' room with the screen on the 11' wall. I have vaulted ceilings with a high point of 12'. I will be using the room for movies, tv, sports and some gaming (no music).

Thanks!
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post #2 of 78 Old 07-01-2013, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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I am open to other speaker manufacturers as well as long as they fit within my total $2,000 budget with the sub.
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post #3 of 78 Old 07-01-2013, 01:52 PM
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The EMP package will give you more powerful speakers, but the Hsu package will give you a much more powerful sub. If you have a Fry's near you, the Infinity Primus P363 tower speakers are on sale right now for only $107 each, those are great speakers and that is a absolutely smokin' deal, add the Primus c351 for 200, and four of these p153 bookshelf speakers for $300, that all will set you back $750 at the most, which leaves you that much more for a great sub setup. I would be looking at two Hsu VTF2 mk4s or two Rythmik FV12r subs. You can also get one of these SVS PC12 Plus or one of these. If you can justify a slightly bit more than your budget, get one of these Rythmik FV15HP, that thing is a true monster with some amazing measurements to back it up.
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post #4 of 78 Old 07-01-2013, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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How do the Infinity speakers compare to the others I listed?

Also, I guess the essence of my question is which is more important, the sub or the other 7 speakers? I am I better off with a mediocre, but still great sub, with 7 great speakers or a great sub with 7 mediocre speakers?
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post #5 of 78 Old 07-01-2013, 04:28 PM
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The Infinity speakers are very good, I think they could hold their own against any of the brands that you listed, some of which I have heard, others I have not. There is a guy who made a thread recently asking why his Aperion Verus Grand speakers don't sound considerably better than his Infinity Primus speakers even though they cost way way more. Just because they are cheap does not mean they are bad, they actually have terrific performance measurements. You want a good balance of both speakers and sub, and you don't want either to be mediocre, however the sub has a more difficult task so I would give it a very healthy percentage of your budget. It also depends on your tastes, if you aren't watching big action movies or listening to bass heavy music, you may not need a heavy duty sub (or two). However, if you are the kind of guy who loves that big movie sound when the THX logo comes up, then yeah, you will want a great sub setup.
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post #6 of 78 Old 07-01-2013, 05:41 PM
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Thats a stupid good price for the Infinity speakers. I've heard the smaller bookshelf speakers in the Primus line and they are quite good. With the Primus line Infinity has proven good sound does not have to be expensive. Forget about Infinity subs though! Terrible subs!

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post #7 of 78 Old 07-01-2013, 07:42 PM
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post #8 of 78 Old 07-01-2013, 08:08 PM
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I would spend $500-$600 on 5 bookshelf speakers (like 5 NHT SuperZero or 6 JBL ES0BK) and $1400 on the Rythmik FV15HP.
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post #9 of 78 Old 07-01-2013, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I would spend $500-$600 on 5 bookshelf speakers (like 5 NHT SuperZero or 6 JBL ES0BK) and $1400 on the Rythmik FV15HP.

Me too. Definitely get a great sub since it appears you're more into movies and TV vs music. I rarely listen to music on my home speakers, so once I added a SVS PB12 Plus, my movie watching was greatly improved. I spent over $5,000 on my 5 speakers but my sungle SUB is what made the greatest difference for me.

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post #10 of 78 Old 07-01-2013, 09:06 PM
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A great sub is a excellent foundation to start a solid system with IMO.

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post #11 of 78 Old 07-01-2013, 10:08 PM
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If you are going to spend 1200-1400 on subwoofer output, I'd go with shadyj's recommendation and get two of the Rythmik LV12R. Your room is what? No more than 2500 cubic feet? Dual LV12Rs will have plenty of output for such a space, but you would get the benefit of the smoother bass response across a wider seating area over a single more powerful sub.

However, this is assuming that your original measurements are based on a room that does not have open adjacent areas. Subs "see" the entire air volume of the room and anything the room opens into. Afterall, the sub's job is to move lots of air. If your space is much bigger than what you first specified, then a more powerful single sub could be the better choice.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #12 of 78 Old 07-02-2013, 06:53 AM
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He can always add a second Rythmik FV15HP in a year or two. Gives him a goal to look forward.

CEA Standard 2M SPL @ 20/32/40/50/63 Hz:

Paradigm Sig Sub2: 106.4/109.9/113.2/116.9/120.2
Hsu VTF-15H: 103.9/113.0/115.7/115.7/115.6
Velodyne DD18+: 103.4/113.0/115.8/116.8/115.3
SVS PB13 Ultra: 110.6/113.5/115.5/117.5/117.8
Rythmik FV15HP: 108.1/117.0/119.5/119.1/118.8
Funk Audio 18.0: 103.6/114.9/119.9/121.4/121.9
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post #13 of 78 Old 07-02-2013, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetmeat View Post

Me too. Definitely get a great sub since it appears you're more into movies and TV vs music. I rarely listen to music on my home speakers, so once I added a SVS PB12 Plus, my movie watching was greatly improved. I spent over $5,000 on my 5 speakers but my sungle SUB is what made the greatest difference for me.

You have great speakers.

I think w/ much bigger budgets, spending more on speakers makes more sense.

But w/ "lower" budgets, I think best subs are more beneficial.
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post #14 of 78 Old 07-02-2013, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetmeat View Post

Me too. Definitely get a great sub since it appears you're more into movies and TV vs music. I rarely listen to music on my home speakers, so once I added a SVS PB12 Plus, my movie watching was greatly improved. I spent over $5,000 on my 5 speakers but my sungle SUB is what made the greatest difference for me.

What sub did you have prior SVS PB12? I've never owned a powerful sub, mostly because I live in an apartment. But I do wonder, what sound characteristics does a more powerful sub add to the movie watching experience? Is it about room shaking, or bigger boom in explosions? I understand there will be difference in a bigger cu.ft room, you need more power as cu. ft. increases, but what about on a small enclosed room, let's say 2500 cu. ft. Does a bigger sub add to the experience? If so, what are the sound characteristics to look forward to in a bigger sub or a better sub? Thanks!

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post #15 of 78 Old 07-02-2013, 08:42 AM
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Right. The extra power may not add anything if your current sub is not near its limits at your normal listening volumes.

However, a higher class of sub might provide lower distortion, better transient response, and lower frequency extension, which could improve the HT experience. But it depends on the sub.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #16 of 78 Old 07-02-2013, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

He can always add a second Rythmik FV15HP in a year or two. Gives him a goal to look forward.

CEA Standard 2M SPL @ 20/32/40/50/63 Hz:

Paradigm Sig Sub2: 106.4/109.9/113.2/116.9/120.2
Hsu VTF-15H: 103.9/113.0/115.7/115.7/115.6
Velodyne DD18+: 103.4/113.0/115.8/116.8/115.3
SVS PB13 Ultra: 110.6/113.5/115.5/117.5/117.8
Rythmik FV15HP: 108.1/117.0/119.5/119.1/118.8
Funk Audio 18.0: 103.6/114.9/119.9/121.4/121.9

The OP's entire budget is $2000, and you're suggesting that he spend $1400 on a sub?

I've said all along he should start with a good sub but it seems a little silly to spend that much on one when there's great options under a $1000.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
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post #17 of 78 Old 07-02-2013, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

The OP's entire budget is $2000, and you're suggesting that he spend $1400 on a sub?

Hell yeah!
*high five*
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post #18 of 78 Old 07-02-2013, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

The OP's entire budget is $2000, and you're suggesting that he spend $1400 on a sub?

I've said all along he should start with a good sub but it seems a little silly to spend that much on one when there's great options under a $1000.

Why don't you just do everyone a favor and just stick to making your recommendation instead of turning this into a battle about why your recommendation is better than my recommendation?

The OP wants to brainstorm. We are all just giving recommendations. Nothing more.

I like owning the best subs possible for the money. That's what I like. It's about preference in a hobby. Not about bridge engineering or medical intervention.
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post #19 of 78 Old 07-02-2013, 10:14 AM
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If he lives near a Frys then he could get an Infinity Primus system and a Rythmik FV15HP for $2000 cool.gif

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post #20 of 78 Old 07-02-2013, 10:22 AM
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While I think that's a pretty hefty percentage of budget allocated to one component, I will share my experience that may help. I struggled with mediocre subs for way too long (about 8 years). It wasn't until I took it seriously and asked questions, studied room and sound characteristics, subwoofer sizing, and more importantly - going for quality, that I finally reached nirvana. It also helped being totally screwed over by eD smile.gif If you can build a system over time I might echo ADTG's recommendation - shell out the big bucks for a sub early. It's a critical component and compromise is not an option.

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post #21 of 78 Old 07-02-2013, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

If he lives near a Frys then he could get an Infinity Primus system and a Rythmik FV15HP for $2000 cool.gif

Well if he can pick some decent speakers for $600 like those that would make sense otherwise he'd be better off spend $1000 or less on a sub IMO. Plenty of great subs for under $1000.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
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Falcon Screens FVHD105
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post #22 of 78 Old 07-02-2013, 10:23 AM
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If he lives near a Frys then he could get an Infinity Primus system and a Rythmik FV15HP for $2000 cool.gif

Exactly. That's just one example.

There are some good 5.0 system for $600.

I've heard some $600 5.0 systems that sound as good or even better than some $1,000 5.0 systems.

Again, there's no right or wrong here. Just personal preference.

Whether it is a $600 vs $1,200 5.0 system, we are talking about compromise to a degree.

So why compromise on both the speakers and subs? Why not have the flagship $1400 delivered FV15HP that can hang w/ the best subs?

Yes, 2 subs are better than one. But not everyone wants 2 lesser subs or need 2 lesser subs. Some people can do just fine w/ 1 ultimate sub. And since most of us upgrade in a year or 2, we can add another sub down the line.

So I would personally prefer 1 ultimate flagship sub over 2 lesser subs.
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post #23 of 78 Old 07-02-2013, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Why don't you just do everyone a favor and just stick to making your recommendation instead of turning this into a battle about why your recommendation is better than my recommendation?

The OP wants to brainstorm. We are all just giving recommendations. Nothing more.

I like owning the best subs possible for the money. That's what I like. It's about preference in a hobby. Not about bridge engineering or medical intervention.

Sorry, where exactly did I try to make this a battle? rolleyes.gif

I'm just saying to the OP it seems strange to spend 70% of his $2000 budget on a sub! When there's plenty of other great options under a $1000.

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post #24 of 78 Old 07-02-2013, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Well if he can pick some decent speakers for $600 like those that would make sense otherwise he'd be better off spend $1000 or less on a sub IMO. Plenty of great subs for under $1000.

Specifically, what would you recommend?

I don't want to argue with anyone. Not worth it. Just brainstorming here. Let's see some recommendations.

I see Infinity, Pioneer, NHT, JBL, etc. I think all pretty good systems. I used to own some Infinity, Pioneer, and NHT. Very good stuff. Not ineffable quality or nirvana. But good stuff.

Let's face it. Whether you go w/ $600 or $1,200 on 5 speakers, we are talking some compromises regardless.

My perspective is to NOT compromise on the sub.
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post #25 of 78 Old 07-02-2013, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Specifically, what would you recommend?

I don't want to argue with anyone. Not worth it. Just brainstorming here. Let's see some recommendations.

I see Infinity, Pioneer, NHT, JBL, etc. I think all pretty good systems. I used to own some Infinity, Pioneer, and NHT. Very good stuff. Not ineffable quality or nirvana. But good stuff.

Let's face it. Whether you go w/ $600 or $1,200 on 5 speakers, we are talking some compromises regardless.

My perspective is to NOT compromise on the sub.

I'm not trying to argue either, that's why I'm shacking my head when you come out guns a blazing with your post. I still feel spending 70% of someone's overall budget on a sub is overkill. Look with a $2000 budget I highly doubt the OP is going to care if he doesn't get a sub like the FV15HP when something like a VTF-15H would probably make him just as happy.

I still think the OP hit the nail on the head when he said he was considering the HSU Hybrid 15 package. That's a very good value 7.1 system. It meets his budget and I'm sure he'd be very pleased with it. I believe shadyj even has the HSU speakers and has great things to say about them.

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JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
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Falcon Screens FVHD105
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post #26 of 78 Old 07-02-2013, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imranh86 View Post

Also, I guess the essence of my question is which is more important, the sub or the other 7 speakers? I am I better off with a mediocre, but still great sub, with 7 great speakers or a great sub with 7 mediocre speakers?

 

Dumb question: Why are you going with 7 speakers instead of 5 (as you may have noticed, many of the recommendations have been for 5)?

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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #27 of 78 Old 07-02-2013, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I'm not trying to argue either, that's why I'm shacking my head when you come out guns a blazing with your post. I still feel spending 70% of someone's overall budget on a sub is overkill. Look with a $2000 budget I highly doubt the OP is going to care if he doesn't get a sub like the FV15HP when something like a VTF-15H would probably make him just as happy.

I still think the OP hit the nail on the head when he said he was considering the HSU Hybrid 15 package. That's a very good value 7.1 system. It meets his budget and I'm sure he'd be very pleased with it. I believe shadyj even has the HSU speakers and has great things to say about them.

The HSU would probably be a fine system too. I am not saying it is a bad recommendation. Not saying any previously mentioned recommendations are bad or funny or silly. Not saying my preference is better than anyone.

We all do things differently. Different priority, background, personal experience, etc.

So if the OP just wants to see how everyone thinks, that's what he is getting.

We can agree to disagree.

Coming from my perspective, I would get the FV15HP for $1400 and spend $600 on five speakers.
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post #28 of 78 Old 07-02-2013, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by imranh86 View Post

How do the Infinity speakers compare to the others I listed?

Also, I guess the essence of my question is which is more important, the sub or the other 7 speakers? I am I better off with a mediocre, but still great sub, with 7 great speakers or a great sub with 7 mediocre speakers?

You are not going to have 7 GREAT speakers even if you spend all $2,000 on the speakers.

But as the CEA subwoofer measurement shows, the $1400 Rythmik FV15HP is among the best subs that money can buy at ANY PRICE.

I think some people feel that you don't really need the best subs. It's true that a $800 PSA or $740 Outlaw sub will be very good and satisfy most needs.

Let's put it this way. Most people feel the urge to upgrade down the road. But if you have the FV15HP, you are set in regards to sub.

You are not going to have 7 great speakers + 1 good sub all for $2,000.
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post #29 of 78 Old 07-02-2013, 11:17 AM
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Coming from my perspective, I would get the FV15HP for $1400 and spend $600 on five speakers.
I would do the opposite. The speakers are more responsible for quality sound than the sub.

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post #30 of 78 Old 07-02-2013, 11:32 AM
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+1

and they span a MUUUCH larger area of our listening curve (20-20kHz..ish)

....and span a MUCH more aurally sensitive area within our listening curve

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