Someone explain: why doesn't my HT sound like the theater? - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 150 Old 07-11-2013, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Yosh70 View Post

Says the guy with how many amps? wink.gif

I see more and more posts about the waste of money of adding amps to their system because the power is just "fine", 50/60/70W is more than enough.

It probably is for the average joe.....but I thought this forum was here for a purpose, to go beyond a HTIB, educate ourselves and have a HT setup that makes us proud..

The types of movies that are watched is a huge factor (ie:Good Will Hunting is not what I'm talking about) and I think if someone listens to their HT at levels beyond the norm, is interested in adding more power, then the comments should say try it and see if there is a beneficial difference instead of trying to tell him its a waste of money.

I will say this, watching scenes from Iron Man on my system with my 200W x 3 Parasound amp compared to just the receiver is like night and day......the dynamics, punch and obvious headroom were some of the benefits I noticed. But for some reason, not a lot of difference when my wife watched "When Harry Met Sally" tongue.gif


Right. And they're (the amplifiers) completely UNNECESSARY for my current room. I purchased them at a one-time, exceptional price for a MUCH larger, future room where I will likely need the additional output capability for the playback levels I like to enjoy, on occasion.

Being "proud" of your equipment and playing back media without clipping amplifiers are two infinitely different things, thankfully. Many interested in doing the latter do not need separate amplifiers, but simply a stout, properly-appointed AVR. I realize that's not sexy enough for many, but that doesn't make it untrue.

An as aside, a "serious" AVR is doing much better than 50/60 watts a channel- again, not that many (even serious enthusiasts) need more than that anyway in many rooms- but those are usually RMS figures with ALL channels, which is RARELY a condition an AVR sees. Mine (AVR) benched at over 100 with 7 channels driven, as an example.

MUCH more importantly though, the L and R and can see TRIPLE those 50/60 watt figures- and that's just RMS, not peak- when the others are not getting annihilated with a balls-to-the-wall-all-channels-driven "test"- which is nice because between them and the center, that's where 90+% of a soundtrack emanates...yes, even the action flicks. Try it for yourself: power down or disconnect the amplifiers powering your LCR's and see what you have left when playing back any movie you like.

But of course CEMs and their engineers already know this and that's why you get $1000-$1500 THX certified (or non THX certified wink.gif ) AVRs that are capable of hitting reference levels in "x" sized rooms with very low THD levels.

James
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post #122 of 150 Old 07-11-2013, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Bummer about the problem you had, but it strikes me as atypical. I've been running a Marantz SR6003 + an Emotiva UPA-5 + a PJ for several years now and I've never once had an issue with my amp going into shut-down mode.
Then why would you want to buy an OPPO? Neither the $499 BDP-103 nor the $1,199 BDP-105 is HDMI 2.0 spec. (I don't see a BDP-503 on the OPPO website.)

Good point eljay!

The 103 is able to pull off an incredible feat, but IMO, doesn't replace an AVR like this poster is suggesting. My AVR went in for some minor surgery, with the pre-outs on the rear panel of the 103, I was able run my amps off of my BRP but at the cost of a hiss. Although the Oppo lets you set speaker size, distance and trim, I wasn't able to lose the hiss.

With the AVR in place, all is well and no hiss. But for two weeks, the Oppo earned it's keep.

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post #123 of 150 Old 07-11-2013, 12:08 PM
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I would hold off on replacing the speakers until after you try another AVR. Back in January I purchased a used set of Phase Tech speakers to include 2 Velocity 12's, the Velocity 6 center channel, and a Phase Tech 10" sub. I connected these to my receiver and old speakers (Acoustic Research being used as surrounds) had issues with dialogue in movies not being as clear as I would like. I also noted that they seemed unable to hold up when played at higher volumes or when a more dynamic part of a movie would occur. The receiver I was using was a Sony DG510 receiver with 100 watts per channel. This is a newer Sony receiver with HDMI inputs. Just an FYI, some companies measure watts per channel in 2 channel mode, not 5 channel mode. I do not know if Sony is one that does this. Anyways, I wanted to get a different reveiver to replace the Sony as I felt it was the issue. I finally got my chance when Costco started selling the Pioneer SC-1522K for $599.00. Well, to make a long story short, using the new receiver gave me much cleaner dialogue and allows me to run the speakers at higher volumes with no issues at all. So, based on my experience with Phase Tech speakers and a newer Sony receiver I would recommend replacing the Sony, not the phase techs. That said, if you do decide to replace the Phase Techs give me a shout out at darenwh at hotmail or yahoo so I can make you an offer on the surrounds. I would love to replace my AR's with them.
Daren

FYI: I don't have anywhere near the knowledge of most on this board but that's my experience and information given is based on my limited knowledge that just happens to be on similar equipment to what you are using. As the advice is free remember you get what you pay for...

Another point: The center channel is responsible for the largest amount of dialogue and will be driven to higher levels than other speakers when watching a movie with a surround track. As that is the situation, if the receiver is trying to push it hard but does not have the b..., um, capabilities to push the speaker to the volume it's trying to while pushing the other four speakers in the system then that is where you will first hear the poor performance and hissing. For that reason it does not surprise me that is where you are hearing the worst issues. That doesn't prove that there is nothing wrong with that speaker, there still could be, it just explains why that is where you may be hearing the worst issues.

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post #124 of 150 Old 07-11-2013, 02:00 PM
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http://www.avsforum.com/t/998946/how-do-you-get-that-huge-epic-sound-of-a-theater Fellow member started this thread long time ago.eek.gif

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post #125 of 150 Old 07-11-2013, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darenwh View Post

I would hold off on replacing the speakers until after you try another AVR. Back in January I purchased a used set of Phase Tech speakers to include 2 Velocity 12's, the Velocity 6 center channel, and a Phase Tech 10" sub. I connected these to my receiver and old speakers (Acoustic Research being used as surrounds) had issues with dialogue in movies not being as clear as I would like. I also noted that they seemed unable to hold up when played at higher volumes or when a more dynamic part of a movie would occur. The receiver I was using was a Sony DG510 receiver with 100 watts per channel. This is a newer Sony receiver with HDMI inputs. Just an FYI, some companies measure watts per channel in 2 channel mode, not 5 channel mode. I do not know if Sony is one that does this. Anyways, I wanted to get a different reveiver to replace the Sony as I felt it was the issue. I finally got my chance when Costco started selling the Pioneer SC-1522K for $599.00. Well, to make a long story short, using the new receiver gave me much cleaner dialogue and allows me to run the speakers at higher volumes with no issues at all. So, based on my experience with Phase Tech speakers and a newer Sony receiver I would recommend replacing the Sony, not the phase techs. That said, if you do decide to replace the Phase Techs give me a shout out at darenwh at hotmail or yahoo so I can make you an offer on the surrounds. I would love to replace my AR's with them.
Daren

FYI: I don't have anywhere near the knowledge of most on this board but that's my experience and information given is based on my limited knowledge that just happens to be on similar equipment to what you are using. As the advice is free remember you get what you pay for...

Another point: The center channel is responsible for the largest amount of dialogue and will be driven to higher levels than other speakers when watching a movie with a surround track. As that is the situation, if the receiver is trying to push it hard but does not have the b..., um, capabilities to push the speaker to the volume it's trying to while pushing the other four speakers in the system then that is where you will first hear the poor performance and hissing. For that reason it does not surprise me that is where you are hearing the worst issues. That doesn't prove that there is nothing wrong with that speaker, there still could be, it just explains why that is where you may be hearing the worst issues.

Thanks for posting. That's encouraging and I really do think I'm going to start with a new AVR.

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post #126 of 150 Old 07-11-2013, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Right. And they're (the amplifiers) completely UNNECESSARY for my current room. I purchased them at a one-time, exceptional price for a MUCH larger, future room where I will likely need the additional output capability for the playback levels I like to enjoy, on occasion.

Being "proud" of your equipment and playing back media without clipping amplifiers are two infinitely different things, thankfully. Many interested in doing the latter do not need separate amplifiers, but simply a stout, properly-appointed AVR. I realize that's not sexy enough for many, but that doesn't make it untrue.

An as aside, a "serious" AVR is doing much better than 50/60 watts a channel- again, not that many (even serious enthusiasts) need more than that anyway in many rooms- but those are usually RMS figures with ALL channels, which is RARELY a condition an AVR sees. Mine (AVR) benched at over 100 with 7 channels driven, as an example.

MUCH more importantly though, the L and R and can see TRIPLE those 50/60 watt figures- and that's just RMS, not peak- when the others are not getting annihilated with a balls-to-the-wall-all-channels-driven "test"- which is nice because between them and the center, that's where 90+% of a soundtrack emanates...yes, even the action flicks. Try it for yourself: power down or disconnect the amplifiers powering your LCR's and see what you have left when playing back any movie you like.

But of course CEMs and their engineers already know this and that's why you get $1000-$1500 THX certified (or non THX certified wink.gif ) AVRs that are capable of hitting reference levels in "x" sized rooms with very low THD levels.

James

I guess you didn't read the post that Mike from AV Science linked.....short large peaks, dynamics and headroom is what we're talking about. If you think your AVR is up to the task, then I guess you don't need all those amps, your call. But I'd like to know why external amps aren't necessary in your room (because of the size I'm assuming) but you feel that its ok to spend money on 11 speakers and 2 18" subs for the same room? Is all that necessary in a small room? Could you not achieve the same result with 5.1, even 7.1? Why all the overkill? cool.gif

I have to comment on your statement " a "serious" AVR is doing much better than 50/60 watts a channel- again, not that many (even serious enthusiasts) need more than that anyway in many rooms" as it seems a bit presumptuous. If anything, I believe most HT's are underpowered. Ok, so we're both presumptuous.tongue.gif

As far as "proud" goes, I was talking about the end result. Not necessarily the individual pieces of equipment but the sum of. The demo's to family and friend's and watching their enjoyment as Thor and Ironman "duke" it out in the forest in the Avengers or the Joker shooting the machine gun in the chase scene of TDKR. Or cranking it up on Take It Easy with the Eagles Live in Melbourne.
You get the idea I'm sure.

I also wanted to mention that I see you decided to spend $2K on a "stout, properly-appointed" receiver and a few years back, I did the same......a Marantz SR8200 which had excellent sound and some serious true to rated power for an AVR. But with my current AVR and the power that the Parasound puts out, the SR8200 was clearly behind.. And even after all was said and done, both pieces were a few hundred less than my Marantz purchase. Live and learn.

Oh, and as far as trying it w/o the amp, maybe read my post again. Last paragraph.
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post #127 of 150 Old 07-12-2013, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ///3oris View Post

I'm not sure why people are so dead set on upgrading the receiver, when it's probably just fine for the job (especially if speakers aren't set to large). Let's say the receiver gets you 50wpc (probably higher, but this is easier to calculate). At 200wpc you'll get 6dB of overhead at most (each time you double the power you get 3dB gain). The issues don't sound like clipping and the speakers the OP mentioned are rated for 100w max.

I would do this methodically (especially since the OP is concerned about spending more than he has to). I would demo the Klipsch center that I mentioned, even if you don't like the Klipsch sound, just to see if you still have the same problem. It'll give you a good starting point for figuring out the weakness in your system.

As others suggest, upgrading everything you own would be beneficial to your ears, but not your wallet.

P.S. I've powered rooms as big as OP's with a basic Yamaha RX-673, or whatever else it was that my friend had. He was dead set on using his [much more powerful, much "better," much more expensive] Rotel amps, so we made a bet that it wouldn't make a difference. Guess who won the bet? He does use Klipsch Reference speakers though, so that was important.

I strongly agree. I'll add:

1- If you really need lots of power, the long term affordable way to do it is to buy a receiver with the features you want, pre-outs and external pro amps. It will be cheaper than buying a much more powerful AVR and you get to keep the power when you need to upgrade the AVR in five years for new features. Amps last forever. I have had one for 30 years.

2- If you really need high SPL, the affordable way to reach it is with high sensitivity speakers rather than amplification. 104 dB sensitivity speakers reach reference in normal HT rooms using just a few Watts. I use horn-loading to do that (THT sub and Klipsch Heritage speakers in my case; other choices exist obviously).

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post #128 of 150 Old 07-12-2013, 07:25 AM
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I agree with ///3oris. That receiver is enough for his room. My Sony STR-DA4ES is plenty for my 16 x 24 room. Back in the day when I used to own separates (2 Channel), my 100 WPC SAE Power Amp's LED Power Indicators indicated I was only using 1 Watt most of the time and that was pretty loud. I think he may not have his receiver set up correctly. Those are pretty efficient speakers.
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post #129 of 150 Old 07-12-2013, 07:52 AM
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Plain and simple, you need big powerful speakers that put out a big soundstage like JBL pro cinema speakers used at cinemas. It has nothing to do with the amps and processors. Some of the best smaller speakers that come close are Klipsch THX ultra 2 speakers. Playing loud is one thing, playing loud with big sound rather than a small box sound is another. I never noticed a box sound until I tried speakers without that sound. Ignorance is bliss.
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post #130 of 150 Old 07-12-2013, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

2- If you really need high SPL, the affordable way to reach it is with high sensitivity speakers rather than amplification. 104 dB sensitivity speakers reach reference in normal HT rooms using just a few Watts. I use horn-loading to do that (THT sub and Klipsch Heritage speakers in my case; other choices exist obviously).
+1. Those kvetching about the need for kilowatt amps have never heard or felt a good high sensitivity speaker system. They don't sell them at Best Buy.

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post #131 of 150 Old 10-20-2013, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darenwh View Post

I would hold off on replacing the speakers until after you try another AVR. Back in January I purchased a used set of Phase Tech speakers to include 2 Velocity 12's, the Velocity 6 center channel, and a Phase Tech 10" sub. I connected these to my receiver and old speakers (Acoustic Research being used as surrounds) had issues with dialogue in movies not being as clear as I would like. I also noted that they seemed unable to hold up when played at higher volumes or when a more dynamic part of a movie would occur. The receiver I was using was a Sony DG510 receiver with 100 watts per channel. This is a newer Sony receiver with HDMI inputs. Just an FYI, some companies measure watts per channel in 2 channel mode, not 5 channel mode. I do not know if Sony is one that does this. Anyways, I wanted to get a different reveiver to replace the Sony as I felt it was the issue. I finally got my chance when Costco started selling the Pioneer SC-1522K for $599.00. Well, to make a long story short, using the new receiver gave me much cleaner dialogue and allows me to run the speakers at higher volumes with no issues at all. So, based on my experience with Phase Tech speakers and a newer Sony receiver I would recommend replacing the Sony, not the phase techs. That said, if you do decide to replace the Phase Techs give me a shout out at darenwh at hotmail or yahoo so I can make you an offer on the surrounds. I would love to replace my AR's with them.
Daren

FYI: I don't have anywhere near the knowledge of most on this board but that's my experience and information given is based on my limited knowledge that just happens to be on similar equipment to what you are using. As the advice is free remember you get what you pay for...

Another point: The center channel is responsible for the largest amount of dialogue and will be driven to higher levels than other speakers when watching a movie with a surround track. As that is the situation, if the receiver is trying to push it hard but does not have the b..., um, capabilities to push the speaker to the volume it's trying to while pushing the other four speakers in the system then that is where you will first hear the poor performance and hissing. For that reason it does not surprise me that is where you are hearing the worst issues. That doesn't prove that there is nothing wrong with that speaker, there still could be, it just explains why that is where you may be hearing the worst issues.
my sony 830 is 130 watts per channel, that is 7 channels at 130 watts each
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Originally Posted by Fr. John View Post

Thanks for posting. That's encouraging and I really do think I'm going to start with a new AVR.
Fr. John sorry for not watching the forum lately other wise I might have helped here.
but to get the sound you want you have to go into the menu and select the speaker set up you have.
7.1 could be 4:3.2
the difference between the 820 and the 830 is you have two sub outputs as far as I know...I have one.
now for getting the full sound out that you want BR deck should be set for PCM audio out.
the disney WOW disc if you could afford it might help, as it helps you find if speakers are out of phase too.
it has a room filling 7.1 audio as it's sound setup.
as for HDMI sony specified 1.4a was used as in and out put. mine,bluray goes PCM through to my AVR and to the TV
and feeds back to the AVR over the HDMI.
PS I have seen where you tried the sony 1000 series. they are about the same for set up. the 1000 series has more power
and a different GUI set up.....but they operate about the same. it took me a while of stumbling around to
figure mine out......not many here on AVSforum like sony but my old 1980 still works 4 channel.
just in case you were wondering one AVS member had a house meeting of locals for HT discussion.
he had Anthem 500 set up done with some very expensive speakers. my sony with some BIC speakers
sounded much better than his did. i have three BIC Formula FH6-LCR bought from overstock or amazon
should be near the $105 ea. price range used for surround and center. cheapos 20 year old JVC for front L/R high
and old DIY rebuilt onkyo thrusters from the 1980s as front side drivers/with subs replacing the 30hz 12".
let me know if you need help. most of the first 5 pages looked like a bunch of nobody can help BS.
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post #132 of 150 Old 10-20-2013, 11:28 AM
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almost forgot the input of the sony 820 should be on LPCM to get the 7.1 from BR disc.

PS I also have the BIC 1220 subwoofer. this system shakes my house watching the remastered
T2 movie that now has 7.1 audio.

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post #133 of 150 Old 10-20-2013, 01:28 PM
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Hmm, I have not seen a suggestion or reply from the OP regarding the current state of his center channel. Perhaps the foam surrounds have given out - that is something that sounds like horrible distortion at even moderate volumes to most folks.

Take off the grille and examine carefully the foam (or it may be obvious - one of the times I had foam surrounds fail the ring was falling off in chunks!), the cone can be manipulated a bit to see if it is separating.

Anyway, a bit of a zombie thread, prior to a couple of recent posts...

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post #134 of 150 Old 10-20-2013, 02:57 PM
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I guess he didn't get the answer he wanted. You want theater sound it takes a lot of money.

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post #135 of 150 Old 10-20-2013, 03:32 PM
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what was disappointing was 125 posts in reply to his first.
not one was experienced with a sony set up. it is different
from most AVRs. but everybody offered to get him a new AVR
of their flavor or new speakers like theirs.

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post #136 of 150 Old 10-20-2013, 05:13 PM
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That's the whole point. He was trying to get big sound from the gear he already has and its just not going to work. Period. It's easier to get big sound from big speakers than trying to get big sound from small ones. It's not just what you hear its also physics.

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post #137 of 150 Old 10-20-2013, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaamon View Post

what was disappointing was 125 posts in reply to his first.
not one was experienced with a sony set up. it is different
from most AVRs. but everybody offered to get him a new AVR
of their flavor or new speakers like theirs.

I'll disagree with that statement, in my own defense of course biggrin.gif

I actually posted; 19, 49, 52, 68, 72, 82, 89, 120 and 122. And though most of my posts were bantering with other posters, none of my posts were pushing my gear with the exception of post 89, I did make a recommendation to an AVR similar to mine but concluded with, what ever the OP chose, it would be a good idea to have pre-outs.

And in my 1st post, all I did was recommend that he get a second sub, no mention of brand whatsoever.

So it would seem that your disappointment doesn't have that high of a post count after all biggrin.gif

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post #138 of 150 Old 10-20-2013, 05:43 PM
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does anyone know what the OP ended up doing?

My recommendation would be to swap components until he finds something that works better, starting with the AVR maybe even adding an external amp. Not for keeps but just as a trial to see what he thinks is the problem, then he can save up and replace the weak link.
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post #139 of 150 Old 10-20-2013, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

+1. Those kvetching about the need for kilowatt amps have never heard or felt a good high sensitivity speaker system. They don't sell them at Best Buy.
Seem like the "no true Scotsman" defense. "Good" high-sensitivity speakers are conveniently underavailable for examination until you've bought them.
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post #140 of 150 Old 10-20-2013, 05:53 PM
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Klipsch can be obtained on the used market at a good price and in good condition. They are not harsh if properly setup and decent gear is used to drive them. The bottom line is if you want a nice HT it will take a little investment of time and cash. Build it up over time. Harshness can be due to the room, bass/treble mismatch due to under powering the system, poor room correction and a few other things. As far as the family and 2 subs, you will find that the HT will not be the gathering place if it is not good. Once the family experience a nice HT system, they will take ownership of it. New gear first and room treatment last, since they may not be needed.

Klipsch RF 7 based HT 7.4, Pioneer SC 35, Acurus Five 200 amp, Chase SS 18.2(2), VS 18.1(2), Samsung BDP F 7500, Asus/My Book Live HPC 4 TB

Yaquin VK 2100 amp, McIntosh XR 5 speakers, Samsung BDP F 7500
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post #141 of 150 Old 10-20-2013, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr. John View Post

I'm constantly turning the volume up and down depending on the scene. The worst bit is that vocals, yelling screaming, etc, are harsh and cringing unless the volume is low.
There's a billion pages covering this, and I've only read bits at the beginning and end. That said: How about we start by actually focusing on your problem.

At the volumes you desire: HF is harsh.

You could be running HF hot. If you have midnight mode turned on, or if you've played with the EQ, in which case the solution is to turn it off / flatten the EQ.
You could have speakers which are incapable of producing HF at the desired volume without distortion. In that case, your only option is new speakers.
You could have room interaction problems (lots of hard surfaces usually) which are creating an "in the bathroom" sound which hurts your ears. Bring in a bunch of blankets and such and drape them all over. If the sound gets better, you may want to look at the room.

I don't think you have an amp problem. Amp needs tend to rise as the frequency drops. If your mids/lows are coming out OK, you likely have enough power. I cannot completely rule it out.

Finally: I'm not sure why all this "100w isn't enough you need 200w" is coming around. That's actually a very small change in available power. Specifically: it's +3db. to put some perspective on that: if you start 3ft from your speaker and back up to 6ft from you speaker you just went -6db (or so). Someone's setup *could* be that close to the edge: but it's unlikely.

Easiest way to remove the AVR / AMP as an issue. Go down to your local guitar center (they take returns) and buy something like.
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Crown-XLS1500-DriveCore-Series-Power-Amp-105914915-i1516455.gc
That will get you 300wpc, which I'm pretty sure is far more than those speakers can actually run. You'll likely need a pair of XLR-RCA adapters. Just attach your source 2-channel CD/DVD/whatever and play an audio CD. See if the shrill problem is still there. If it's gone, plug in your center channel (instead of L and R)... just leave the other amp channel unused. Again: see if it's shrill.

If the problem is gone, look at your AVR. If the problem persists, it's not the AVR.

Return the amp and proceed with your new knowledge.
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post #142 of 150 Old 10-21-2013, 10:02 AM
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no new AVR is needed, just learn....
how many of you have set up a Sony STR-DH8XX? or a DH7XX? or Sony DH1XXX?
I have experience and it was not easy.
but once set up it works as good as any AVR.
most people on AVS look down on the Sony products....I smile when I listen to mine.


1 watt should be plenty of volume for anybody so what would 130 be needed for?
speakers most rated near 90db+ at 1 watt.

and I have no idea if he solved his problem but some one else may have these Sony issues.

my HT
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post #143 of 150 Old 10-21-2013, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaamon View Post

1 watt should be plenty of volume for anybody so what would 130 be needed for?
speakers most rated near 90db+ at 1 watt.
Just to hit a THX-spec peak (105db) at 12ft listening (most of my viewing is between 6 and 12 ft) would require a little under 200w with a 90db speaker (in a really reflective room, perhaps as low as 100w).

So as long as "anybody" listens *much* quieter than the standard... you are right.
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post #144 of 150 Old 12-07-2013, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Well heck, I don't always get my notifications for some reason. I had no idea this thread got this long!

Anyway, I took a lot of peoples advice and bought a new AVR, Yamaha RX-V673. No I didn't just buy it foor this problem, I also wanted a new AVR.

Unfortunately after running the set-up we watched Rob Roy BD lasst night and I'mm afraid to say the dialog was simply too harsh to take. Not worse than before but about the same. Frankly I don't it shouldn't be this hard to get decent sound.

I assume my next logical step is a new Center channel.

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post #145 of 150 Old 12-07-2013, 03:18 PM
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Or room treatments?

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post #146 of 150 Old 12-07-2013, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr. John View Post

Anyway, I took a lot of peoples advice and bought a new AVR, Yamaha RX-V673... I'mm afraid to say the dialog was simply too harsh to take. Not worse than before but about the same.
The wrong advice you took, I'm afraid. A number of people also said that the AVR was not the issue, that the speakers were. Those opinions you should have heeded.

Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design

The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
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post #147 of 150 Old 12-08-2013, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

The wrong advice you took, I'm afraid. A number of people also said that the AVR was not the issue, that the speakers were. Those opinions you should have heeded.
Yep
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post #148 of 150 Old 12-08-2013, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Well as I stated, I wanted to upgrade the AVR anyway. Frankly as a lifelong Sony fan, I'm tired of the junk they are pawning off in some categories.

That said, I didn't disregard the other comments but I have to weigh things in order.

1. My current speakers, while not theater worthy, are considered good speakers. They should be well good enough for good sound, if not big sound. I don't think harsh sibilant dialog is a symptom of a bad speaker in this case, but perhaps not good for the purpose
2. I can do nothing as far as room treatments go.
3. A new Center is my next try.

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post #149 of 150 Old 12-08-2013, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr. John View Post

This pic shows the room except we have turned everything 180 degrees so just reverse it all, i.e. the display is now on the left side of the room.. The other difference is that instead of the plasma there is now a 120" pull down (again on the left). The center channel is about 15" off the ground and slightly in front of the screen. It was about 25" off the ground though and just under the plasma. Same effect regardless of position.


My thoughts are a little different than some. First off, I only see a TV in the Pic, and maybe the left speaker. I think first you should try to maximize the sound in the room by moving at least the three front speakers forward into the room. Bring the seating to more of a group, out in the middle of the room.

You also have a lot of hard surfaces, creating perhaps a sound that is to "Live". If you clap your hands in the room, what do you hear? echo? Try to tame down the "live" sound and some of the first reflections, concentrating on the walls and the fully undressed ceiling.

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post #150 of 150 Old 12-09-2013, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Espo77 View Post

My thoughts are a little different than some. First off, I only see a TV in the Pic, and maybe the left speaker. I think first you should try to maximize the sound in the room by moving at least the three front speakers forward into the room. Bring the seating to more of a group, out in the middle of the room.

You also have a lot of hard surfaces, creating perhaps a sound that is to "Live". If you clap your hands in the room, what do you hear? echo? Try to tame down the "live" sound and some of the first reflections, concentrating on the walls and the fully undressed ceiling.

No, no echo. The funny this is we never used to have this problem with a rinky dink sony surround package (our first foray into surround, tine little speakers the size of your hand). Yes the sound wasn't BIG but it was pretty good and none of this booming harshness. We watched The Edge last night, the dialogue was painful. We ended up watching it much lower than we'd prefer.

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