Ascend CMT340SEs in new 30'x18.5'x9' Theater? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 185 Old 07-03-2013, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I need some feedback. Do you think I could use the Ascend CMTSEs for my LCR in a theater room this large and it be sufficient? I also plan on using 2 pairs of of CBM170SEs for my surrounds. My seats will be 11' and 17' from the screen with a bar area and some seating behind that.

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post #2 of 185 Old 07-03-2013, 10:59 AM
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post #3 of 185 Old 07-03-2013, 11:31 AM
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The CMTs would just not be appropriate for a dedicated theater. For tame listening levels, they would probably be OK. For anything even close to reference level listening I would go with something like these Pi Threes or JTR Single 8s at the very least. The Pi Fours or JTR Noesis 228HTs would be better. It looks like you are a handy guy with tools, so you coudl save quite a bit of money by building a pre-designed speaker kit. Pi sells their speakers as kits like this kit for the Four, there are also these kits from the DIY Sound Group, that Fusion 15 in particular has to sound pretty amazing. It's obvious you have put a lot of work in your theater, and it would be a shame if you shortchanged it in the audio dept. For the surround I would go with something like the JBL 8320 or 8340, or maybe one of those smaller kit speakers. Some Klipsch RB bookshelf speakers might be able to keep up with those front stage speakers in a surround capacity as well.
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post #4 of 185 Old 07-03-2013, 11:51 AM
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Just curious shady, how many times have you heard the Ascend setup in a home theater environment? I'm curious why they might not be appropriate.

I have the CMT-340 SE for a stereo setup, having gone through Totem, Polk LSi9 and Kef Q300, it was the only pair that would play loud enough with no loss of clarity in my living room that is 28' x 21' with 25' ceilings. My seating position (when I sit in this room) is 16' away. They play way louder than I would ever want to hear, and I am satisfied with both quality and range. Cel4145 just posted 100db from 3' away with his CBM170SEs here.

In summary, for tame listening levels, from those who have heard the speakers, they are more than OK.

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post #5 of 185 Old 07-03-2013, 03:17 PM
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All those speakers you mentioned will play much louder than you would want to hear, because they will become obnoxious at loud levels. They aren't intended for reference levels. You try to push any of those speakers anywhere near reference levels and they will run into all kinds of compression and distortion. The OP is building a dedicated home theater room, I would guess he is after a THX experience. No conventional soft dome tweeter is going to get you there, period. Any of the speakers I recommended will be far far better for a dedicated theater, and in a kit form they don't even cost that much more than the CMTs.
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post #6 of 185 Old 07-03-2013, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wraunch View Post

I need some feedback. Do you think I could use the Ascend CMTSEs for my LCR in a theater room this large and it be sufficient? I also plan on using 2 pairs of of CBM170SEs for my surrounds. My seats will be 11' and 17' from the screen with a bar area and some seating behind that.

We have many hundreds, if not thousands of customers using 340SE's in dedicated theater/media rooms (many in even larger rooms than yours). While the 340's might not, ultimately, reach the same extreme listening levels of some of the high efficiency models listed here, they are -- however, extremely capable speakers and we regularly run them at reference levels in our extremely well damped listening room -- measured at about 11 ft distance...

You will need some serious subwooferage and I would recommend the Rythmik FV15HP.

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post #7 of 185 Old 07-03-2013, 04:55 PM
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Mine have reached and exceeded reference levels many times with no compression or distortion. When I'm not working, when relaxing on my deck or working in my yard the double french doors are open and music is cranking. They would have gone back the next day had they become "obnoxious". I don't compromise, and based on the quality I've experienced neither does Ascend. Are there better speakers? There always are, there always will be. This doesn't justify a shoot from the hip assessment based purely on specifications.

Wraunch, great project you have there, I look forward to photos of the completed room (I'm sure you are as well!). I can see why you may be going for budget speakers biggrin.gif The next time I'm down at RTP I'll bring a good bottle of wine.

Good luck with your project and search for components.
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post #8 of 185 Old 07-04-2013, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Mine have reached and exceeded reference levels many times with no compression or distortion.

How do you know this? How are you measuring that? I think it unlikely. Once I was in a dealer's demo room where there was some Paradigm towers, Klipsch Reference towers, and some Klipsch Heritage speakers, including the Klipschorns. They had one of those switches where it bounced the sound from speaker to speaker. Even when gain matched, the other speakers were not like the Heritage speakers, not even the high end RF-83s. The difference was obvious, the Heritage sounded big, the crescendos weren't hitting any ceiling, the percussion popped out and you could feel it. If those Heritage speakers could dwarf high end Paradigm and Klipsch Reference towers, the Ascends will sound every bit as small in comparison if not worse. And the speakers I suggested will be a lot more like the Heritage than ordinary designs like what Ascend carries. I don't mean to say Ascend makes a bad product, but after all the work the OP has put into his theater, using some 50 Hz extension MTMs with 6.5" woofers and a soft dome tweeter on a flat baffle would be such a shame.
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post #9 of 185 Old 07-04-2013, 08:09 AM
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What is a shame is a negative assessment of speakers you've never heard. That you doubt my word and think it unlikely is fine, however we've already heard from Dave, who I'd bet is probably in the know regarding their capabilities.

My Ascends, a new receiver and pro audio amp, a complete upgrade from my previous setup in the great room, were installed on the same day. Gain adjustments on the Crown amplifier needed to be made. I used an SPL meter and the clip indicator on the amp. I know where absolute reference is in relation to volume on the AVR. My ears also chipped in.

I'm no Ascend fanboy but I do think they offer tremendous quality and value for someone looking to fill a large room. Based on my experience their claim is absolutely true. Like everyone else shopping for speakers wraunch has a budget and a purpose, based on his thread he is now ready to explore equipment. And like everyone else he needs to listen. Advice given from someone reading tea leaves does him no good.

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post #10 of 185 Old 07-04-2013, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow! I didn't look at the thread for a day and I seem to have started a bit if a firestorm! I'm a novice when it comes to most speakers and I usually will not buy anything without hearing it first, I am somewhat handy but thankfully my dad and uncle live nearby and they are very handy! I haven't looked into kits too much but I hear great things about Pi. One concern with my setup is my rear surrounds. I can't put them. On the rear wall because I will have my bar cabinets there most likely. Should I look for unveiling rears or just find some I could mount overhead and swivel back towards the seats? As you can see I have put a ton if time into planning every small detail of this space and I don't plan on losing it on my audio. That being said I am very budget conscience and I know I can upgrade things later. The only pieces of equipment from an audio standpoint I currently plan on using in the room is my Elemental Designs A2-300 for one sub and my Onkyo txsr707. I am very intrigued by the ascends as folks on AVS are raving about them. Keep the feedback coming guys! What would you recommend in a space this large that will mostly be used for Movies/Games/Watching Sports?

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post #11 of 185 Old 07-04-2013, 08:54 AM
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No real firestorm, just correcting a wrong. wink.gif

There isn't a huge amount of content from rears, but what there is adds some fun to a movie experience. I had a similar limitation and used in-ceiling speakers with pivoting tweeters (see my signature). There are other choices, some worse, some better.

Budget conscious is good, you're going to need some funds for subwooferage. That eD is going to be a meek whimper in that room.

You have lots of choices, certainly Ascend isn't the only one. A ballpark budget for speakers will help others come up with alternatives.

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post #12 of 185 Old 07-04-2013, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The CMTs would just not be appropriate for a dedicated theater. For tame listening levels, they would probably be OK. For anything even close to reference level listening I would go with something like these Pi Threes or JTR Single 8s at the very least. The Pi Fours or JTR Noesis 228HTs would be better.

So you are recommending speakers that one of which costs as much as three of the CMT-340 SEs??? Of course they are better speakers. That doesn't mean that the CMT-340s can't provide a satisfying experience for most people in this budget range of <$1000 for front left/right/center.

And if you truly think this way, your Infinity Primus towers and HSU speakers that you have stated you have must give you a sucky HT experience at your house. Based on recommendations you have made regarding those two speakers, I don't think you truly believe that.
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Cel4145 just posted 100db from 3' away with his CBM170SEs here.

That was with my little Indeed TA2021 t-amp smile.gif
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post #13 of 185 Old 07-04-2013, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by wraunch View Post

Wow! I didn't look at the thread for a day and I seem to have started a bit if a firestorm! I'm a novice when it comes to most speakers and I usually will not buy anything without hearing it first, I am somewhat handy but thankfully my dad and uncle live nearby and they are very handy! I haven't looked into kits too much but I hear great things about Pi. One concern with my setup is my rear surrounds. I can't put them. On the rear wall because I will have my bar cabinets there most likely. Should I look for unveiling rears or just find some I could mount overhead and swivel back towards the seats? As you can see I have put a ton if time into planning every small detail of this space and I don't plan on losing it on my audio. That being said I am very budget conscience and I know I can upgrade things later. The only pieces of equipment from an audio standpoint I currently plan on using in the room is my Elemental Designs A2-300 for one sub and my Onkyo txsr707. I am very intrigued by the ascends as folks on AVS are raving about them. Keep the feedback coming guys! What would you recommend in a space this large that will mostly be used for Movies/Games/Watching Sports?

Here are some surround speakers that are budget friendly and will work great. Mount them against the wall and ceiling, you will want your surrounds mounted high. Those will hopefully sound great and stay out of the way. Those are probably the least expensive THX approved speakers that I know about, which makes them a bargain.

As for your sub, don't take offense but it is woefully inadequate for a dedicated home theater. Sell it or move it to another system, but don't try to integrate it with a powerful subwoofer system. The good news is it looks like you might be nicely positioned for an infinite baffle system. You could use the attic space next to the roof as a IB enclosure. This can give you massive bass for a relatively modest investment. You will need to buy some drivers, an amp, and an equalizer. You'll want to to talk to the guys in the DIY section for more about this, but no commercial sub you could buy would even dream of touching it at that price. If for some reason you can't do an Infinite Baffle, I would recommend some DIY sealed 18"s like I suggested to this guy. Each of these solutions are so far above that little ED sub it is not even comparable, the experience is another planet entirely.

As for your receiver, there is good news and bad news there too. If you are using the Onkyo's amp, you will really want high sensitivity speakers because of how hot that model gets. I know this because I own one. The JTR speakers might be iffy on that because they are 4 Ohm rated, but the Pi speakers supposedly are an easy load on amplifiers. I don't know about the SEOS speakers, you will have to ask about those in the DIY section, those are very popular there. The good news is that receiver has pre-outs so you could easily add separate amps any time you like. It's a good receiver for the money, but I would just take it easy on the amplifier. Again, I really wouldn't want to try to push conventional speakers to loud volumes with it in a dedicated home theater. I do on mine but I am in a smaller room, and I don't sit as far from the speakers, and even then I know I am missing better dynamics and finer quality and I intend to upgrade within a year (I have to take it easy on my wallet right now, just bought a new projector).
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post #14 of 185 Old 07-04-2013, 09:37 AM
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So you are recommending speakers that one of which costs as much as three of the CMT-340 SEs??? Of course they are better speakers. That doesn't mean that the CMT-340s can't provide a satisfying experience for most people in this budget range of <$1000 for front left/right/center.

And if you truly think this way, your Infinity Primus towers and HSU speakers that you have stated you have must give you a sucky HT experience at your house. Based on recommendations you have made regarding those two speakers, I don't think you truly believe that.

The kits of the Pi and SEOS speakers are only $400 each, not including cabinet materials. That isn't much more than the CMTs and is a HUGE upgrade if correctly built. Since the OP shows construction skills and doesn't need to worry about WAF, that is a fantastic option for him.

My Primus speakers are very good for the money, I got them for $100 each. For the money, just terrific. But they are not in the league of the others I recommended. I can live with them for now, but I am contemplating an upgrade in a year or so, thinking about either Pi Fours, SEOS Sentinels, or JBL LSR6332s. And like I said to the OP, I am in a smaller room and am closer to the speakers, that helps. As for the Hsus, right now they are computer speakers, and I am sitting only an armlength away from them. Reference levels are not a problem here, lol.
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post #15 of 185 Old 07-04-2013, 09:51 AM
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The kits of the Pi and SEOS speakers are only $400 each, not including cabinet materials. That isn't much more than the CMTs and is a HUGE upgrade if correctly built. Since the OP shows construction skills and doesn't need to worry about WAF, that is a fantastic option for him.

My Primus speakers are very good for the money, I got them for $100 each. For the money, just terrific. But they are not in the league of the others I recommended. I can live with them for now, but I am contemplating an upgrade in a year or so, thinking about either Pi Fours, SEOS Sentinels, or JBL LSR6332s. And like I said to the OP, I am in a smaller room and am closer to the speakers, that helps. As for the Hsus, right now they are computer speakers, and I am sitting only an armlength away from them. Reference levels are not a problem here, lol.

Sure. The kits are a viable option if he wants to do some building. But the other speakers you listed are a whole different budget class.

It's all about budget. We do what we can with the money we have and are willing to spend. smile.gif

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post #16 of 185 Old 07-04-2013, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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I'd like to stay under a grand for the LCR. The ascends cmt340se pair are around $4-500.

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post #17 of 185 Old 07-04-2013, 10:16 AM
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Something else that the OP can do that doesn't require construction and won't break the bank is use some of these KRK Rokit 10-3 active speakers, at least for the front stage. They will be fairly powerful, not on the level of the heavy duty Pi or SEOS speakers, but certainly more than Ascends, and since they are active they will not stress the Onkyo at all. They are a bit more expensive than the CMT340s and the kits but not by a whole lot. They are very accurate and sound great, and can get loud. I'm guessing they might be able to hit Reference at the OP's front row, but probably not the rear row.
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post #18 of 185 Old 07-04-2013, 01:58 PM
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The majority of the SEOS kits can be purchased with a flat pack cabinet. Glue it together, sand the edges, and roll/spray on some bedliner.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1.html

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits.html

For a large dedicated theatre it really is ideal to move towards speakers like this.


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post #19 of 185 Old 07-04-2013, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not too handy with a solder iron. Is it possible to get these with crossovers built already? What's the difference in the various speakers on that site? To me I would think a 12" woofer should be more than enough. What's the difference in the various 10" and 12" ones?

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post #20 of 185 Old 07-04-2013, 02:14 PM
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Some of the Pi kits come with a pre-made crossover. I'm not sure if any of the SEOS kits do.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

What is a shame is a negative assessment of speakers you've never heard. That you doubt my word and think it unlikely is fine, however we've already heard from Dave, who I'd bet is probably in the know regarding their capabilities.

My Ascends, a new receiver and pro audio amp, a complete upgrade from my previous setup in the great room, were installed on the same day. Gain adjustments on the Crown amplifier needed to be made. I used an SPL meter and the clip indicator on the amp. I know where absolute reference is in relation to volume on the AVR. My ears also chipped in.

I'm no Ascend fanboy but I do think they offer tremendous quality and value for someone looking to fill a large room. Based on my experience their claim is absolutely true. Like everyone else shopping for speakers wraunch has a budget and a purpose, based on his thread he is now ready to explore equipment. And like everyone else he needs to listen. Advice given from someone reading tea leaves does him no good.

Im sorry but I have heard them first hand. Even with the 3x 170se in a 13 x 14 x 9 room, it failed to fill the room.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

What is a shame is a negative assessment of speakers you've never heard. That you doubt my word and think it unlikely is fine, however we've already heard from Dave, who I'd bet is probably in the know regarding their capabilities.

My Ascends, a new receiver and pro audio amp, a complete upgrade from my previous setup in the great room, were installed on the same day. Gain adjustments on the Crown amplifier needed to be made. I used an SPL meter and the clip indicator on the amp. I know where absolute reference is in relation to volume on the AVR. My ears also chipped in.

I'm no Ascend fanboy but I do think they offer tremendous quality and value for someone looking to fill a large room. Based on my experience their claim is absolutely true. Like everyone else shopping for speakers wraunch has a budget and a purpose, based on his thread he is now ready to explore equipment. And like everyone else he needs to listen. Advice given from someone reading tea leaves does him no good.

Im sorry but I have heard them first hand. Even with the 3x 170se in a 13 x 14 x 9 room, it failed to fill the room.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

What is a shame is a negative assessment of speakers you've never heard. That you doubt my word and think it unlikely is fine, however we've already heard from Dave, who I'd bet is probably in the know regarding their capabilities.

My Ascends, a new receiver and pro audio amp, a complete upgrade from my previous setup in the great room, were installed on the same day. Gain adjustments on the Crown amplifier needed to be made. I used an SPL meter and the clip indicator on the amp. I know where absolute reference is in relation to volume on the AVR. My ears also chipped in.

I'm no Ascend fanboy but I do think they offer tremendous quality and value for someone looking to fill a large room. Based on my experience their claim is absolutely true. Like everyone else shopping for speakers wraunch has a budget and a purpose, based on his thread he is now ready to explore equipment. And like everyone else he needs to listen. Advice given from someone reading tea leaves does him no good.

Im not sure what happenned when I posted but it seems like I have posted multiple comments of the same on the bottom. Please disregard.

Sorry Admin team!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

What is a shame is a negative assessment of speakers you've never heard. That you doubt my word and think it unlikely is fine, however we've already heard from Dave, who I'd bet is probably in the know regarding their capabilities.

My Ascends, a new receiver and pro audio amp, a complete upgrade from my previous setup in the great room, were installed on the same day. Gain adjustments on the Crown amplifier needed to be made. I used an SPL meter and the clip indicator on the amp. I know where absolute reference is in relation to volume on the AVR. My ears also chipped in.

I'm no Ascend fanboy but I do think they offer tremendous quality and value for someone looking to fill a large room. Based on my experience their claim is absolutely true. Like everyone else shopping for speakers wraunch has a budget and a purpose, based on his thread he is now ready to explore equipment. And like everyone else he needs to listen. Advice given from someone reading tea leaves does him no good.

Im sorry but I have heard them first hand. Even with the 3x 170se in a 13 x 14 x 9 room, it failed to fill the room.
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Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

What is a shame is a negative assessment of speakers you've never heard. That you doubt my word and think it unlikely is fine, however we've already heard from Dave, who I'd bet is probably in the know regarding their capabilities.

My Ascends, a new receiver and pro audio amp, a complete upgrade from my previous setup in the great room, were installed on the same day. Gain adjustments on the Crown amplifier needed to be made. I used an SPL meter and the clip indicator on the amp. I know where absolute reference is in relation to volume on the AVR. My ears also chipped in.

I'm no Ascend fanboy but I do think they offer tremendous quality and value for someone looking to fill a large room. Based on my experience their claim is absolutely true. Like everyone else shopping for speakers wraunch has a budget and a purpose, based on his thread he is now ready to explore equipment. And like everyone else he needs to listen. Advice given from someone reading tea leaves does him no good.

Im sorry but I have heard them first hand. Even with the 3x 170se in a 13 x 14 x 9 room, it failed to fill the room.
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post #26 of 185 Old 07-04-2013, 02:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

What is a shame is a negative assessment of speakers you've never heard. That you doubt my word and think it unlikely is fine, however we've already heard from Dave, who I'd bet is probably in the know regarding their capabilities.

My Ascends, a new receiver and pro audio amp, a complete upgrade from my previous setup in the great room, were installed on the same day. Gain adjustments on the Crown amplifier needed to be made. I used an SPL meter and the clip indicator on the amp. I know where absolute reference is in relation to volume on the AVR. My ears also chipped in.

I'm no Ascend fanboy but I do think they offer tremendous quality and value for someone looking to fill a large room. Based on my experience their claim is absolutely true. Like everyone else shopping for speakers wraunch has a budget and a purpose, based on his thread he is now ready to explore equipment. And like everyone else he needs to listen. Advice given from someone reading tea leaves does him no good.

Im sorry but I have heard them first hand. Even with the 3x 170se in a 13 x 14 x 9 room, it failed to fill the room.
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post #27 of 185 Old 07-04-2013, 02:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

What is a shame is a negative assessment of speakers you've never heard. That you doubt my word and think it unlikely is fine, however we've already heard from Dave, who I'd bet is probably in the know regarding their capabilities.

My Ascends, a new receiver and pro audio amp, a complete upgrade from my previous setup in the great room, were installed on the same day. Gain adjustments on the Crown amplifier needed to be made. I used an SPL meter and the clip indicator on the amp. I know where absolute reference is in relation to volume on the AVR. My ears also chipped in.

I'm no Ascend fanboy but I do think they offer tremendous quality and value for someone looking to fill a large room. Based on my experience their claim is absolutely true. Like everyone else shopping for speakers wraunch has a budget and a purpose, based on his thread he is now ready to explore equipment. And like everyone else he needs to listen. Advice given from someone reading tea leaves does him no good.

Im sorry but I have heard them first hand. Even with the 3x 170se in a 13 x 14 x 9 room, it failed to fill the room.
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post #28 of 185 Old 07-04-2013, 02:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

What is a shame is a negative assessment of speakers you've never heard. That you doubt my word and think it unlikely is fine, however we've already heard from Dave, who I'd bet is probably in the know regarding their capabilities.

My Ascends, a new receiver and pro audio amp, a complete upgrade from my previous setup in the great room, were installed on the same day. Gain adjustments on the Crown amplifier needed to be made. I used an SPL meter and the clip indicator on the amp. I know where absolute reference is in relation to volume on the AVR. My ears also chipped in.

I'm no Ascend fanboy but I do think they offer tremendous quality and value for someone looking to fill a large room. Based on my experience their claim is absolutely true. Like everyone else shopping for speakers wraunch has a budget and a purpose, based on his thread he is now ready to explore equipment. And like everyone else he needs to listen. Advice given from someone reading tea leaves does him no good.

Im sorry but I have heard them first hand. Even with the 3x 170se in a 13 x 14 x 9 room, it failed to fill the room.
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post #29 of 185 Old 07-04-2013, 02:55 PM
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Ya know Brian, you could delete 7 of those 8 posts. wink.gif

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post #30 of 185 Old 07-04-2013, 03:22 PM
 
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How do I delete it? I just have "multi", "quote", "reply" on bottom right.
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