Wharfedale Diamond 10.1, Ascend Acoustics CBM 170se, or Cambridge Audio S30? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 07-03-2013, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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So, as you can see I've narrowed my choices down to these 3 criteria being: price, WAF, and sound quality. This will be used as the mains in my 4.1 set-up. I'm only able to place my mains about 6 feet apart at a 12 foot listening position, so I don't see the point or have the room for a center (that's another argument). Room is app. 14x25 open concept opening into the kitchen, my rears are sonance symphony 6.5 inch in-ceilings. They are being pushed by a budget Yamaha rx-v373. My sub is a crappy Denon 8 inch 100 watt powered (will be the next to replace).
I'm thinking the Ascends will probably be the best, but I like the look of the Wharfedales the most, but will either one of the two compensate for the $100 price difference between them and the Cambridge s30's. Also, the wife wants the smaller s30's but I can put my foot down if the Wharfedales or the Ascends are really worth the extra cost and pain in the neck of hearing my wife complain.
I'm a little concerned with the small woofer in the s30 being able to fill my room. Oh, and my wife said she really likes the looks of the Polk rtiA1, but I don't think they can match the sound of the others listed.
Thanks so much to whoever gives advice!
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post #2 of 29 Old 07-03-2013, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDB30 View Post

So, as you can see I've narrowed my choices down to these 3 criteria being: price, WAF, and sound quality. This will be used as the mains in my 4.1 set-up. I'm only able to place my mains about 6 feet apart at a 12 foot listening position, so I don't see the point or have the room for a center (that's another argument). Room is app. 14x25 open concept opening into the kitchen, my rears are sonance symphony 6.5 inch in-ceilings. They are being pushed by a budget Yamaha rx-v373. My sub is a crappy Denon 8 inch 100 watt powered (will be the next to replace).
I'm thinking the Ascends will probably be the best, but I like the look of the Wharfedales the most, but will either one of the two compensate for the $100 price difference between them and the Cambridge s30's. Also, the wife wants the smaller s30's but I can put my foot down if the Wharfedales or the Ascends are really worth the extra cost and pain in the neck of hearing my wife complain.
I'm a little concerned with the small woofer in the s30 being able to fill my room. Oh, and my wife said she really likes the looks of the Polk rtiA1, but I don't think they can match the sound of the others listed.
Thanks so much to whoever gives advice!

Well, I have Wharfedale Diamond 10.2's so you may take my opinion as biased. But, I would take the Wharfedales out of the three you're listing.

The Wharfedales and Ascend would be the two I'd suggest trying out for yourself though. I don't see any reason why the Ascend would be the best, but do see reason why the Wharfedales would be. Other than the Ascends being cheaper, the Wharfedales look better on paper and literally(sitting in your room). But, it all comes down to preference really.

The SQ of the Diamonds are great. They're very detailed and mellow, but not muffled and hidden. The highs are very crisp and detailed, and should provide a very solid mid-range and low end even. My 10.2's are usable down to 38Hz or so, which I'm betting is about what your "sub" is rated to. lol.

But seriously, the only way to know what you want is to try them out for yourself. Give yourself a week of serious listening and make your decision then. If it were for WAF alone, the Wharfes would win. But again, you may not be able to appreciate their sound as much as the others.

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post #3 of 29 Old 07-03-2013, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Lol I would be lucky if my sub could hit 38hz.... I agree the Wharfedales look great and they get great reviews. I do like a very balanced sound I had the Andrew Jones series 1 set in a different room and loved the balanced sound and great midrange, if the Wharfedales can provided that with crisp highs and better dynamics I will be in love.
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post #4 of 29 Old 07-03-2013, 09:25 PM
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I doubt the Wharfedales have significant output at 38 Hz. They are certainly more aesthetically appealing. The Ascends are not exactly "lookers" but you will get a neutral speaker with excellent SQ. Why not audition both?

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post #5 of 29 Old 07-03-2013, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
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After talking to the wife and showing her the speakers she really likes the Wharfedale's! But, I just found a pair of KEF q300's for about the same price, will the KEF be a big jump in SQ from the Wahrfedale's?
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post #6 of 29 Old 07-04-2013, 06:49 AM
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The Q300's are nice speakers and one of KEF's best sellers. I haven't heard the Wharfdales so I can't offer a SQ comparison. The KEF speakers with Uni-Q drivers are noted for their imaging/dispersion, and since you're planning on a phantom center that could be a plus. Of the many (very fine) speakers I auditioned in this price range I ended up keeping the KEF's for that particular quality (my listening area is slightly wider than it is deep).

IME small variations in SQ and tone between speakers often disappeared after some EQ-ing (either by hand or via Audyssey on the receiver), but a speaker's imaging/dispersion is-what-it-is. Curious to hear if other folks have a had a similar experience.
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post #7 of 29 Old 07-04-2013, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for ur input! I agree running phantom center I need a speaker with a big soundstage and great imaging.
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post #8 of 29 Old 07-04-2013, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I've also been reading up on the HSU bookshelves. They seem really good as well, but I'm afraid they won't be as balanced with the horn tweeter.
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post #9 of 29 Old 07-04-2013, 08:37 AM
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Take a look at audioholics review of HSU. It mentioned a relatively small sweet spot, indicating a possible challenge with phantom center. The Kefs were great, I had to work hard to position myself off-axis enough to note a difference.

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post #10 of 29 Old 07-04-2013, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Also would like to mention these will be for about 50% home theater, 30% Gaming, and 20% music. Right now I'm using a pair of Klipsch kb-15 bookshelves and they sound pretty good, although they really lack the midrange that I'm looking for, hopefully the Ascends or Wharfedales will have the high end punch and crispness of the klipsch but with better midrange sound.
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post #11 of 29 Old 07-04-2013, 10:10 AM
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I went from the series 1 Pioneer speakers to the Wharfedale 10.2's. The difference was obvious, as I was able to hear things I hadn't before with the Pioneers. The soundstage is great, and they easily fill my large space with ease. It feels like music is flowing over you from all directions, rather than coming straight at you.

I still have a pair of Pioneer bookshelf speakers as my surrounds, and I much rather listen to music/games in 2.1, as the Pioneers just feel harsh to empty now.

As for the Kef Q300's, those too would be a good choice. I've never heard them myself, but from I've read on them, they may be a bit better than the 10.1's. They may be more on par with the 10.2's in terms of overall imaging, but again, I've never heard them.

Sdg4vfx's comment about SQ and imaging is spot on, I think. EQ can help balance out any tiny SQ issues you may find with some speakers, but the speakers ability to build an enveloping soundstage can't be EQ'd in.

You can also look at the Focal Chorus 705V's at musicdirect.com. Any of these speakers would be an upgrade over what you have, and should really make you happy. Just need to see which you prefer.

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post #12 of 29 Old 07-04-2013, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm leaning toward the Ascends because of the 6.5 inch woofer and higher sensitivity, I wish they looked a bit better but I'm more interested in the SQ. I'll have to see if the wife will go for the dreaded "black box".
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post #13 of 29 Old 07-04-2013, 07:27 PM
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Woofer size and sensitivity specs are fairly non-important. A speaker can have a higher sensitivity rating and be quieter and more difficult to drive than a speaker with a lower rating. Same wyh woofer size.A smaller woofer may play deeper and present a larger soundstage.

Can you try a few sets in your home? Return the ones you dont like.

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post #14 of 29 Old 07-04-2013, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I may be able to audition a few sets, the polk rti a3 looks pretty good too. I really like the look of the curved cabinets on the polk and wharfedale
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post #15 of 29 Old 07-06-2013, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDB30 View Post

I may be able to audition a few sets, the polk rti a3 looks pretty good too. I really like the look of the curved cabinets on the polk and wharfedale

Auditioning a few sets would be the best thing to do.

Had you looked at these? Focal 705V's I would add these to your list. Perhaps putting them above the Polks.

I would personally audition the Wharfedales, Ascends, and Focals if possible.

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post #16 of 29 Old 07-06-2013, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Take a look at audioholics review of HSU. It mentioned a relatively small sweet spot, indicating a possible challenge with phantom center. The Kefs were great, I had to work hard to position myself off-axis enough to note a difference.

This review is from the first iteration of the speakers, the current version, HB-1 MK2 is much improved and have received great reviews. Same with the 2nd series Andrew Jones, is a much improved speaker. I own the latter with the SP-C22 center. I love them, but many people here have stated that a jump to the ascend, the HSU, Arx, (I guess KEF) may be discerning upgrade.

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post #17 of 29 Old 07-06-2013, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I've looking at the 2nd gen pioneers too, newegg has the center on sale for $50 and the bookshelves for $99. Great deal! I could get the front three and the pioneer sub for less than one pair of the above mentioned speakers. I'm just afraid I will get the upgrade bug and want something better soon. I want to just buy this last time and keep the dang things lol, over bought 4 different sets of speakers in the last couple of years and the wife is raising hell because I want new ones.
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post #18 of 29 Old 07-06-2013, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Could someone chime in about the Cambridge Audio S30, would they be much of a jump in SQ over the pioneer bs22. If I go with the pioneers I could go ahead and get a much needed new sub
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post #19 of 29 Old 07-06-2013, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SDB30 View Post

Could someone chime in about the Cambridge Audio S30, would they be much of a jump in SQ over the pioneer bs22. If I go with the pioneers I could go ahead and get a much needed new sub

I think that's a tough call. Individual speaker taste could easily be the single biggest factor there in SQ difference.

One thing about the S30s is that they have much higher sensitivity than the Pioneers. That means that they will get a good bit louder for the same amount of amplifier power.

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post #20 of 29 Old 07-06-2013, 07:11 PM
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Re the upgrade bug, IMO ...

I would consider both the Pioneers and the S30's as the go-to "entry level" speakers. Both are exceptional values at their price point, with the more expensive S30 probably being a bit more detailed, accurate, better for music, etc.. I own the S30s and have always been impressed with them. They are my bedroom speakers so I don't test the volume much wink.gif

Speakers like the Ascends and the KEFs (at the accessories4less price, not retail) are also excellent values at their, slightly higher, price point - I would assume the same is true for the Wharfdales though I haven't heard them. And more to the point, a lot of forum folks keep these speakers long term and are very happy with them. Generally speaking I would guess you'd be more likely to avoid the upgrade bug at this price point.

Buying better up-front speakers now and upgrading the sub later might be less expensive in the long run.

(FWIW, I believe the Pioneer bookshelves on sale at newegg are the older, BS21 models. From forum reports the BS22's have better sq.)
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post #21 of 29 Old 07-07-2013, 12:29 AM
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Re the upgrade bug, IMO ... buy the speakers you want and never come back here or to any other speaker/sound related forum, HT reviews, etc; There is always something better for a few dollars more. If you don't have control of yourself, this hobby can get really expensive really fast.

About the Cambridge S30, an older thread mentioned a guy buying the BS22, then the HSU HB-1 MK2, returned the BS22, then bought the S30 and returned the HB-1 MK2. The main reason, if I remember correctly, it was listening at lower volume levels. He felt the S30 were performing better at lower volumes, but will not go as high as the HSU will go.

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post #22 of 29 Old 07-07-2013, 01:25 AM
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You might also check into the Wave Crest Audio HLV-1s. Designed by Dave Fabrikant of Ascend Acoustics, and in the price range of the Cambridge S30s. Here's a review that has just been posted: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1473975/wave-crest-audio-hlv-1-ascend-designed-budget-bookshelf#post_23501698

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post #23 of 29 Old 07-07-2013, 02:06 AM
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Curious about the HLV-1s myself wink.gif
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post #24 of 29 Old 07-07-2013, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdnewbie21 View Post

This review is from the first iteration of the speakers, the current version, HB-1 MK2 is much improved and have received great reviews. Same with the 2nd series Andrew Jones, is a much improved speaker. I own the latter with the SP-C22 center. I love them, but many people here have stated that a jump to the ascend, the HSU, Arx, (I guess KEF) may be discerning upgrade.

Thank you for the clarification on Hsu. My apologies for not catching that.

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post #25 of 29 Old 07-07-2013, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

You might also check into the Wave Crest Audio HLV-1s. Designed by Dave Fabrikant of Ascend Acoustics, and in the price range of the Cambridge S30s. Here's a review that has just been posted: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1473975/wave-crest-audio-hlv-1-ascend-designed-budget-bookshelf#post_23501698

That was a very good read. Congrats to you Curtis!

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post #26 of 29 Old 07-07-2013, 11:35 AM
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Interesting comparison from stereophile:
Quote:
The Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 was more warm, rich, and airy than the SP-BS22-LR, with more delicate and detailed mids and highs, but the new Pioneer bettered it in the low bass. The two speakers' dynamics were equally good.

The Epos ELS3 was a level beyond the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR in refined, delicate, and sophisticated inner detail, but its bass extension and high-level dynamics were inferior to the Pioneer's.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-loudspeaker

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post #27 of 29 Old 07-07-2013, 12:31 PM
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What about the aperions ? Anyone have any opinions on them particularly the Verus Grand ?
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post #28 of 29 Old 07-26-2013, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdnewbie21 View Post

Re the upgrade bug, IMO ... buy the speakers you want and never come back here or to any other speaker/sound related forum, HT reviews, etc; There is always something better for a few dollars more. If you don't have control of yourself, this hobby can get really expensive really fast.

About the Cambridge S30, an older thread mentioned a guy buying the BS22, then the HSU HB-1 MK2, returned the BS22, then bought the S30 and returned the HB-1 MK2. The main reason, if I remember correctly, it was listening at lower volume levels. He felt the S30 were performing better at lower volumes, but will not go as high as the HSU will go.

Great advice, which I plan to follow. Good information in this thread, as I plan to build my first HT setup. I am now leaning towards the S30 after the above comment as I plan to use it mostly at low to medium volumes due to living in a townhouse with open style stairwells so sound easily travels throughout the house. The price is also pretty damn good for $220 shipped.

Would these speakers pair with a Denon 1713 pretty well, or should I purchase a higher end receiver?

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post #29 of 29 Old 07-26-2013, 08:31 AM
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Great advice, which I plan to follow. Good information in this thread, as I plan to build my first HT setup. I am now leaning towards the S30 after the above comment as I plan to use it mostly at low to medium volumes due to living in a townhouse with open style stairwells so sound easily travels throughout the house. The price is also pretty damn good for $220 shipped.

Would these speakers pair with a Denon 1713 pretty well, or should I purchase a higher end receiver?

The Denon 1713 would work great with the S30s. smile.gif

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