Time to VOTE!! HSU vs Ascend vs Arx - Page 6 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 174 Old 11-11-2013, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Dome tweeters are essentially cone drivers, and a rear chamber is to a dome tweeter as a sealed enclosure is to a midrange, woofer or sub driver. Just as with larger drivers the overall response of the tweeter can be tailored by the size of the rear chamber. A larger rear chamber doesn't damp the backwave, that must be accomplished by lining the chamber with damping material. The larger the chamber, the lower the frequency that must be damped. That's because destructive reflections occur when the distance from the dome to the rear of the chamber approaches 1/4 wavelength, so the larger the chamber the more issues there are with destructive reflections, not less. Conversely, the smaller the chamber, the shorter the return path, and the less the need for damping, so the damping can be made thinner, or even eliminated. The smallest rear chambers are found in horn drivers, which usually are machined to the shape of the dome, and the depth of the chamber behind the dome is on the order of only a millimeter or two. Doing so eliminates any internal reflection issues, as 2mm is 1/4 wavelength at about 50kHz. Making the chamber that small does lessen response in the low end of the passband, but with a horn that's down to compensate for the low pass function of the horn. .
"a damping chamber" Does that sound off to you? It is clear to me Dave was refering a damped chamber not a large chamber will damp.
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post #152 of 174 Old 05-02-2014, 04:48 AM
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Nexus221, are you still around the forum? What is your experience with the speakers you ordered?

 

This interesting thread suddenly went cold!

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post #153 of 174 Old 07-07-2014, 01:30 AM
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I would also like to second the request for more information/a resolution. The choice facing me seems to be between the Ascend CMT-340 and the HR HB-1 MK2, so I'm very interested in what anyone might add to this discussion.
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post #154 of 174 Old 07-07-2014, 07:27 AM
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This is a very tough decision. The Ascend probably gives you a more dynamic sound stage with the MTM speakers, but the HSU's are horn-loaded and also offer great dynamics. The Ascend are going to be louder, so if you sit farther than 10-12' I would take them. The VTF3-MK4 is a better sub than the Rythmik though.

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post #155 of 174 Old 02-01-2015, 10:18 PM
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I owned the Ascend speakers, I unfortunately had to sell them due to circumstances, but I will give you my take on them.

CBM-170SE: They are BIG bookshelf speakers, most seem wimpy by comparison. They sound thin and lackluster when you first listen to them, especially if coming from dynamic speakers. They need to be broken in and have your ears adjust to them. I would say they are much better for movies, paired with a Denon 2112 receiver, a Pioneer SC1222, and finally a Sony STR-DN1040 receiver. They are very clinical, meaning if you play a low quality MP3 song through them, they won't sound like you are playing a decent MP3. liked them but I would say they are better for surrounds.

CBM-340SE: Much bigger and better sounding speaker, better for music than the CBM-170SE but still not as dynamic as some brands of speakers. They image excellent and have a full sound, much fuller than the Ascend 170SE. A sound quality more rich than the smaller bookshelf and of course they dig deeper, so more room filling. The sound qualities are about the same, revealing of source material and uncolored sound.

They have very good imaging, once broken in they can sound very good. Very well balanced and dynamic and if you play high quality material through them, you will be rewarded with great sound.

For music listening, I do not think the CBM-170SE across the front sound stage would be ideal, they are better for movies. They lack the richness and dynamics, but I think with certain types of music they would sound great. I would say if you want to use for all around sound, the CBM-340SE would be the way to go for all three front speakers. Not that the CBM-170SE is a bad speaker, but it is designed as a surround speaker to compliment the CBM-340SE. You CAN use CBM-170SE as mains and for every speaker, but you may or may not like the overall sound. Now the CBM-340SE is a different story but it is heavy and huge, so hanging on walls would not be easy to do. They are also all rear ported, so they need room to breath. You need stands or arms to mount any Ascend speakers.

I hope this helps, they are good speakers but I think you can do better for an even cheaper price and get a better Sub. I would say Ascend and HSU for 50% or more movie watching, Chane Arx for music 50% or more. I have not heard the HSU or Arx, admittedly. But I do know how they are designed and they both will have a bigger sound stage than the Ascends.
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post #156 of 174 Old 02-02-2015, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchonX View Post
Not that the CBM-170SE is a bad speaker, but it is designed as a surround speaker to compliment the CBM-340SE. You CAN use CBM-170SE as mains and for every speaker, but you may or may not like the overall sound. Now the CBM-340SE is a different story but it is heavy and huge, so hanging on walls would not be easy to do. They are also all rear ported, so they need room to breath. You need stands or arms to mount any Ascend speakers.

Just a minor correction. Our CBM-170's were certainly not designed as surround speakers to complement our 340's. We built the company with our 170's sold as mains, 340's didn't come around for many years later. In fact, the 340 center came before 340 mains and was developed by popular request as a "dedicated center" to be used with the 170's as left/right. We then later introduced the left/right version of the 340.

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post #157 of 174 Old 02-04-2015, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Ascend View Post
Just a minor correction. Our CBM-170's were certainly not designed as surround speakers to complement our 340's. We built the company with our 170's sold as mains, 340's didn't come around for many years later. In fact, the 340 center came before 340 mains and was developed by popular request as a "dedicated center" to be used with the 170's as left/right. We then later introduced the left/right version of the 340.
Hi there David, I do stand corrected. I do really like your products and I push them in most situations.

I liked the sound of both CBM-170SE and CBM340SE. I actually had 4 CBM-170's as my mains and surrounds and the CBM-340 as my center. Of course by comparison the CBM-340 was much richer and just a better all around speaker but I loved all of my Ascend speakers. Unfortunately I had to sell them off, but I just purchased 5 of the Wave Crest Audio HVL-1 for my room system, I am excited to hear them and I think I will like what I hear.

I like to review speakers critically, but I can say the CBM-170SE is more than adequate for mains, just not as ideal as the CBM-340 due to the fact it will have an obviously bigger (more room filling) and richer sound. I do love the imaging on the CBM-170 and they dig deeper than some towers I have heard and/or owned.
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post #158 of 174 Old 02-11-2015, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ArchonX View Post
Hi there David, I do stand corrected. I do really like your products and I push them in most situations.

I liked the sound of both CBM-170SE and CBM340SE. I actually had 4 CBM-170's as my mains and surrounds and the CBM-340 as my center. Of course by comparison the CBM-340 was much richer and just a better all around speaker but I loved all of my Ascend speakers. Unfortunately I had to sell them off, but I just purchased 5 of the Wave Crest Audio HVL-1 for my room system, I am excited to hear them and I think I will like what I hear.

I like to review speakers critically, but I can say the CBM-170SE is more than adequate for mains, just not as ideal as the CBM-340 due to the fact it will have an obviously bigger (more room filling) and richer sound. I do love the imaging on the CBM-170 and they dig deeper than some towers I have heard and/or owned.

No worries Archon. I just wanted to make sure that there was no confusion regarding our 170's -- as they were fully designed to be main speakers and the majority of their sales are for this purpose.

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post #159 of 174 Old 02-11-2015, 10:38 PM
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IIRC, that was back in the day when although people liked the speakers so much, the finish was uninspiring. So people were stripping the speakers and dressing them up with veneers and all. Is that sort of right, Dave?

On other notes, does Ascend see itself into developing a line of high efficiency speakers?

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post #160 of 174 Old Yesterday, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post
IIRC, that was back in the day when although people liked the speakers so much, the finish was uninspiring. So people were stripping the speakers and dressing them up with veneers and all. Is that sort of right, Dave?

On other notes, does Ascend see itself into developing a line of high efficiency speakers?



I asked that question recently over at the AA forum & the response was no. Dave could elaborate & explain things further on the vary subject of HE monitors or the uninspiring finish found with the lower models.


If you ask me though...Ascend seems to be doing prudy good at the moment with what's at hand but you just never know. I'd be more intrigued if the were to develop a new mid range driver for the Towers like they did for the new S2.

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post #161 of 174 Old Yesterday, 09:27 AM
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I didn't mean it as a slight on the speakers, rather that when they were first introduced people liked them so much they were willing to spend time and money to jazz them up.

On the HE monitors, I just see it as the wheel coming around with those types coming into relative popularity. The wheel never stops turning though.

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post #162 of 174 Old Yesterday, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post
IIRC, that was back in the day when although people liked the speakers so much, the finish was uninspiring. So people were stripping the speakers and dressing them up with veneers and all. Is that sort of right, Dave?

On other notes, does Ascend see itself into developing a line of high efficiency speakers?

Hey Chu -- memories of the old days It was mostly our dear old friend MLS, who, having nothing to compare sound quality wise with the 170's, started all that "uninspiring finish" matter. Our 170's still sell as well now as they did back then. It is really a remarkable story for a speaker, a true testament of how a well engineered product stands the test of time.


We introduced them exactly 15 years ago this very month. And in all this time, we have had only one revision to the speaker. I am quite confident that our CBM-170's are the top selling "ID" loudspeaker ever offered, and by no small margin.


As far as the "uninspiring finish" -- seems like our philosophy of a basic black box has caught on quite a bit


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post #163 of 174 Old Yesterday, 09:05 PM
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Fifteen years. Wow. I'll bet theyre almost fully broken in by now. That's staying power. Wasn't it Howard Ferstler who gave it a knock it out of the park review back then?

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post #164 of 174 Old Yesterday, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchonX View Post
I owned the Ascend speakers, I unfortunately had to sell them due to circumstances, but I will give you my take on them.

CBM-170SE: They are BIG bookshelf speakers, most seem wimpy by comparison. They sound thin and lackluster when you first listen to them, especially if coming from dynamic speakers. They need to be broken in and have your ears adjust to them. I would say they are much better for movies, paired with a Denon 2112 receiver, a Pioneer SC1222, and finally a Sony STR-DN1040 receiver. They are very clinical, meaning if you play a low quality MP3 song through them, they won't sound like you are playing a decent MP3. liked them but I would say they are better for surrounds.

CBM-340SE: Much bigger and better sounding speaker, better for music than the CBM-170SE but still not as dynamic as some brands of speakers. They image excellent and have a full sound, much fuller than the Ascend 170SE. A sound quality more rich than the smaller bookshelf and of course they dig deeper, so more room filling. The sound qualities are about the same, revealing of source material and uncolored sound.

They have very good imaging, once broken in they can sound very good. Very well balanced and dynamic and if you play high quality material through them, you will be rewarded with great sound.

For music listening, I do not think the CBM-170SE across the front sound stage would be ideal, they are better for movies. They lack the richness and dynamics, but I think with certain types of music they would sound great. I would say if you want to use for all around sound, the CBM-340SE would be the way to go for all three front speakers. Not that the CBM-170SE is a bad speaker, but it is designed as a surround speaker to compliment the CBM-340SE. You CAN use CBM-170SE as mains and for every speaker, but you may or may not like the overall sound. Now the CBM-340SE is a different story but it is heavy and huge, so hanging on walls would not be easy to do. They are also all rear ported, so they need room to breath. You need stands or arms to mount any Ascend speakers.

I hope this helps, they are good speakers but I think you can do better for an even cheaper price and get a better Sub. I would say Ascend and HSU for 50% or more movie watching, Chane Arx for music 50% or more. I have not heard the HSU or Arx, admittedly. But I do know how they are designed and they both will have a bigger sound stage than the Ascends.
Interesting synopsis. I've read this sort of opinion a number of times. I think it's perhaps a typical review coming from a listener who has not experienced a truly neutral speaker with a flat response. When I had a pair of the CBM-170SEs I kind of felt this way at first as well (being new to quality speakers) but realized shortly after that this was due to previous speakers I had owned "over-accentuating" in certain areas.

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post #165 of 174 Old Yesterday, 10:20 PM
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Fifteen years. Wow. I'll bet theyre almost fully broken in by now. That's staying power. Wasn't it Howard Ferstler who gave it a knock it out of the park review back then?

I know, right? 15 years - hard to believe. And to think, when I designed the 170's -- I had no kids and a lot more hair on my head, I don't think there even was an AVS forum yet.


Yep, it was Howard who first reviewed them and gave them a glowing a review. He loved the 170's -- bought a few pairs for himself and friends as I recall.

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Maybe a reprinting of reviews over the years as part of a 15 year anniversary celebration?

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post #167 of 174 Old Yesterday, 11:06 PM
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Maybe a reprinting of reviews over the years as part of a 15 year anniversary celebration?
We should probably do something. 15 years is worthy of recognition.

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post #168 of 174 Old Today, 09:58 AM
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I am glad this thread got revived. I am looking for new speakers, and it seems there are some great options in this low price range. I expected a need to spend much more, but I'm starting to see that it might not be required to do so.

If someone has had experience with the speakers discussed here, along with some of the other options in this price range, I'd love to hear opinions. I'll be pairing these with an Outlaw LFM-1EX, so anything under 80hz is irrelevant.
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So uh.. .. what's the tally?


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The AA Towers have a dedicated Midrange driver, there really is no need to develop a new driver for it.

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post #171 of 174 Old Today, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
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We should probably do something. 15 years is worthy of recognition.
15 years, 15% off!

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If the speakers have serial numbers, then you could have a contest for the oldest pair.

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post #173 of 174 Old Today, 05:50 PM
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They all have SN AFAIK.

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post #174 of 174 Unread Today, 08:51 PM
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I have the 340SE LCR and the HTM200's surround. HSU VTF3 MK4, Emotiva XPA5, Onkyo 818.

Fabulous combination - the bass makes all three floors of my house rattle. Makes for a VERY fun movie experience. (also wakes up my toddlers when I get a little happy with the volume button)

I learned that when you start these speakers up as a noob, that you should pour 90% of your time into learning how the room affects your sound. How treatments, furniture placement, speaker placement can radically change the sound. Its kind of amazing really, blows a newcomers mind.

Learn how to use EQ, and learn how to set up your stuff using audio "helpers" like Audyssey and the more importantly things like REW (there are more). This forum is an absolute treasure trove of brilliant information, I consider myself more of a noob now than ever after learning some of the stuff that most experts here have forgotten already.

Enjoy your speakers. They are a great match and Dave Fabrikant from Ascend Acoustics is a personable, knowledgeable, very helpful guy. Who knows his stuff

(no affiliation to him either whatsoever, just my personal experiences)
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