Seeking guidance on best 3.1 Active speakers for US$2500-$2800 - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 121 Old 07-10-2013, 02:51 AM
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Based on my rudimentary knowledge, the characteristics described in the above quoted article can be attributed to the compression driver combined with waveguide. At the end of the day, HSU is still a dome tweeter with a horn in front of it, so all of those advantages may not exist.
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In fact, most all horns today do not make use of a very important component that complements the horn: THE COMPRESSION DRIVER. Most horns today could be more accurately described as horn-loaded tweeters. They use a conventional speaker driver with a horn in front of it.

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post #32 of 121 Old 07-10-2013, 03:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Attached is the comparison report of STR-DN1040 vs STR-DA1800ES as per Sony's US website...
Sony STR-DN1040 vs STR-DA1800ES 160k .pdf file

Just wanted to know everyone's opinion on whether upgrading to STR-DA1800ES would be worth it considering the additional decoders...

The one disadvantage is STR-DA1800ES doesn't have a front input HDMI or Mobile Highdefinition Link - available on the STR-DN1040.
and the other major difference is 5 year warranty for STR-DA1800ES vs what seems like 1 or 2 year warranty STR-DN1040 (not clear)

The STR-DA1800ES is now available for less than the STR-DN1040
http://www.powersellernyc.com/Catalog/View/123566
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post #33 of 121 Old 07-10-2013, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grnsr View Post

@AcuDefTechGuy - "All these tower speakers we are talking about are really just bookshelves atop bass modules..." does this apply to the B & W 684 - my heart is really set on this... so any serious input on this would be great...

Looks l may have found the perfect receiver with all the features I want - Sony - STR-DN1040

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666556859

Would the STR-DN1040 pair well with the B&W (684, HTM62, 686, ASW608), or Revel F12 or KEF Q500?

There are very few towers that can reproduce very high quality tight punchy accurate bass below 30Hz. So IMO you are paying for the inferior bass of these towers, including the 684, KEF Q900, Revel F12, and every single tower in this price range and most towers under $4K. But that's my opinion. Some people think the bass in these towers are just enough for them. Only you can decide.

But everyone will agree that the bass in many good subs outperform the bass in these towers. Most of us end up buying 2 subs with our towers anyway because of this. I just think if you have a smaller budget, it may be best to shift the budget to the subs and get bookshelf speakers (again, you can place the bookshelf atop sub like a tower speaker).
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post #34 of 121 Old 07-10-2013, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Not quite. Take a look at the frequency response graph



from this review:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/review-hsu-research-hb-1-mk2

No no no.... do not bring science / data into this discussion! smile.gif

The best advice (often repeated) is that the OP should demo what he can. And I would strongly suggest doing so especially if he is considering horns, I'm biased in that I can't stand sibilance of any kind and find brighter speakers very distracting. No doubt what I find distracting will be viewed by some others as being articulate and detailed, whereas my very neutral, laid back energy speakers will be viewed as being "boring". If you don't have much experience and aren't sure of what you like, demo what you can.
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post #35 of 121 Old 07-10-2013, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

There are very few towers that can reproduce very high quality tight punchy accurate bass below 30Hz. So IMO you are paying for the inferior bass of these towers, including the 684, KEF Q900, Revel F12, and every single tower in this price range and most towers under $4K. But that's my opinion. Some people think the bass in these towers are just enough for them. Only you can decide.

But everyone will agree that the bass in many good subs outperform the bass in these towers. Most of us end up buying 2 subs with our towers anyway because of this. I just think if you have a smaller budget, it may be best to shift the budget to the subs and get bookshelf speakers (again, you can place the bookshelf atop sub like a tower speaker).

This is good advice, except if budget is a key driver of going with bookshelf speakers don't forget to include proper stands or mounts in your calculations. Ironically a bookshelf is probably one of the worst locations for a bookshelf speaker smile.gif
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post #36 of 121 Old 07-10-2013, 06:27 AM
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And as far as power requirement goes:

A speaker with 90dB/w/m sensitivity can produce 96dB with 32 watts x 2 speakers playing, 99dB w/64watts x 2 speakers playing, 102dB/128w x 2 speakers playing all from a 4 meter distance. And this does NOT include the subwoofers, which could add another 5-10 dB to the OVERALL volume level. So 96dB from 2 bookshelf speakers + subs could produce a total volume of 100-105dB from 4 meters, all with just 32 watts per Channel.

So power requirement depends on sensitivity, distance, and volume.
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post #37 of 121 Old 07-10-2013, 06:37 AM
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On paper (Home Theater Magazine measurements) the Sony AVR (assuming the Sony 1040 is like the Sony 1030) has plenty of power, especially compared to all the $1,000 AVRs and below. The Sony THD, SNR, Crosstalk, FR are as good as any and even better than some $5K AVR. But still, some people say the Sony just do not sound as good. Perhaps they are talking about the DSP/EQ/RC in the Sony. I would think in Direct mode (bypass all EQ/DSP/RC), the Sony would sound as good as any. But I don't own any Sony AVR.

I think if Audyssey or room correction is important to you, then consider Denon/ Marantz or Anthem AVR. Denon/ Marantz also allows subwoofer output in Pure Direct/ Direct modes, which no other brands do, if that is important.

But as far as power output, I don't think the Sony has problem here.

HTM AVR Power Output @ 1% THD 2CH 8 ohms/4 ohms/ 5CH 8 ohms:

$7000 Pioneer SC09: 268.7/523.4/267.3
$5500 Denon 5308: 235.5/339.2/184.6
$5500 AudioControl 1: 119.7/197.8/105.8
$5500 Yamaha Z11: 243.6/387.4/183.1
$5000 Arcam 600: 119.2/207.3/95.5
$4000 NAD 787: 184.5/207.1/149.2
$2200 Pioneer SC07: 182.2/301.6/150.5
$2000 Rotel 1550: 150.1/235.0/111.4
$2000 Anthem 700: 160.2/221.0/93.7
$1800 Cambridge 650: 174.4/229.9/142.3
$1600 NAD 757: 121.9/181.0/91.2
$1500 Yamaha 2000: 189.3/287.4/79.9
$1400 Onkyo 1009: 179.5/250.4/131.2
$1400 Integra 50.2: 172.4/259.8/134.1
$1300 Cambridge 551: 111.3/139.8/81.2
$1200 Marantz 6006: 153.2/195.8/92.0
$1200 Denon 3312: 143.3/225.5/103.0
$1200 Yamaha 1020: 129.2/173.0/73.2
$1100 Pioneer SC61: 150.3/247.5/127.7
$1000 Anthem 300: 116.3/165.9/83.4
$1000 Sherwood 977: 145.1/209.9/109.2
$500 HK 1700: 108.9/196.3/39.5
$900 Denon 2313: 152.1/192.5/90.8
$580 Denon 1913: 117.7/151.1/81.7
$550 Yamaha 573: 111.4/126.2/24.9
$500 Sony 1030: 134.7/167.7/90.4
$450 Yamaha 473: 96.5/143.2/Protection Mode
$450 Pioneer VSX42: 118.2/157.8/79.9
$350 Denon 1612: 118.5/141.5/79.8
$330 Pioneer 821: 110.3/150.7/78.1
$230 Sony 520: 141.7/160.6/81.3

$9,000 Classe CT-5300: 434.8/190/322.1
$8,095 Bryston 9B SST2: 151.3/245.5/148.7
$7,500 Denon POA-A1HDCI: 197.2/318/188.2
$5,899 Earthquake Cinenova Grande: 374.4/564.7/329.6
$5,699 ADA PTM-8150: 187.7/268.5/138.8**
$5,000 Anthem Statement P5: 400/642/383
$3,995 Cary Model 7.125: 158.6/313.1/148.5
$3,295 Butler TDB 5150: 250.5/393.7/227.2**
$2,999 NAD M25: 259.5/484.6/230.7**
$2,800 Sherbourn PA-7-350: 488.3/746.9/356.3
$2,799 Rotel RMB-1575: 319.9/510/317.9
$2,500 Parasound 5250: 325.6/546/298.1
$2,499 Rotel RMB-1077: 133/257 /118.0**
$2,499 AudioControl Savoy: 255.3/413.8/178.4**
$2,399 Marantz MM8077: 150.3/241.8/125.4
$2,299 Arcam P1000: 237/359/173**
$2,000 Emotiva MPS-1: 187/280/175**
$1,999 Anthem MCA50: 232.3/378.1/222.8
$1,800 Integra DTA-70.1: 177.7/266.7/137.7
$1,599 Outlaw Model 750: 342.3/492.8/301.1
$1,200 Marantz MM7055: 152.8/236.4/117.8
$1,199 Rotel RMB-1085: 114.8/218.4/114.8
$1,000 Outlaw Model 7125: 189/269/142**
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post #38 of 121 Old 07-10-2013, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grnsr View Post

Hello all,

I'm new to the forum - but have been reading some of the threads and FAQs - which naturally leaves me a lot more informed and confused...

I'm an American expat presently in India and am looking to setup a home theater with a budget of about $800 towards the receiver and about $2500 towards the speakers.
The above budget is based on the best/sale prices in the US. The piece of **** Indian govt – taxes these things to death, therefore including duty and transportation etc I might end-up spending close $7000.

I'm not an audiophile - but do want a high quality system that I can be proud of and show my sensible and discerning taste. I realize there is a best buy in each price band and the improvement in quality vs price gets narrower as you go up the price ladder.
We get what we pay for but with some brands we end-up paying more for their marketing, brand equity and over-heads than you do for the components, performance and quality. I sometimes find it helpful to compare a brand’s position to the relative brand positions of various cars brands – For. Eg. Rolls Royce, Bugatti, Ferrari, Lamborghini etc are great but less than 0.001% of us can afford them – whereas the BMW 3 Series or the Subaru WRX etc are the perfect brands with good quality, styling, technology etc offered at a reasonable price point (IMHO).
I would like to hear the forum’s opinion on which Receivers and Speakers are notionally equivalent to the BMW 3 series

Some brands of receivers I've been considering:
In order of preference - Marantz, Harmon Kardon, Yamaha, Sony, Denon, Cambridge Audio, Pioneer, Onkyo - anything else?
Which specific models?

I've narrowed down some requirements:
1. Need only a 5.1ch setup - as even this will have a tough time with the WAF. I am fairly certain I'll never need a 7.1 setup or two zone ability.
2. I've considered the much debated 'separates' vs ‘receiver’ option but decided to go for a receiver with pre-amplified output option so that I can add an amp later if needed.
3. The receiver should feature the latest HDMI (1.4 or 1.4a) with 3D & 4K pass-through.
4. Most videos & music will be played via a desktop/laptop with HDMI out.
5. More than 1 USB input would be great so as to connect my portable drives directly to the receiver. I do not plan to use a Blu-ray player as it is already outdated with the new 4k player being released. Besides who has the space to store plain old discs - when I can have about 2000 movies on my 4TB harddisk.
6. I need no more than 3 or 4 HDMI inputs – the PC, the cable box and a game console. Don’t have any need for legacy inputs (fiber optic, component, composite etc).
7. The receiver should have one or more of the following Audyssey Dynamic EQ, THX Loudness Plus, Dolby Volume or Audyssey volume - so as to control loud swings in volume from TV channel to channel or from program to ads
8. Airplay not required - but Ethernet port, Bluetooth or ability to use Android phone and IR remote from phone etc will be a great nice to haves.
9. Is THX-certified the norm or are there brands/models that go above & beyond.


Some brands of speakers I've been considering:
In order of preference - B&W (684, HTM62, 686, ASW608), Totem, Paradigm, Klipsch, KEF, Polk, Salk, Focal, Selah, Genelec , Atlantic Tech, JBL, Philharmonic- anything else?
Which specific models?
I’m considering floor standing models for the front (L/R) and bookshelf for the surround. The living room is about 15' x 16' & is open to the dining area which is 11' 11'. Its a high rise apartment with good noise protection but need to consider WAF and NAF.

My first introduction to hi-end (or supposedly hi-end) audio was with Bose– but having dome some research – I realize Bose were just early movers into the consumer category and great marketers – but not as smart a choice for those who know better. I would still like to get more clarity on why they are not worth considering.

Some additional questions:
1. Is there any point in considering wireless speakers for the surround speakers - as this will greatly increase the WAF. Is the potential loss of fidelity worth it? If so which brands and models do I consider and which receivers or attachments do I need for this?
2. WAF – is gonna be tough – as she finds even the TV speakers too loud – not sure how I’m gonna convince her with a 5.1 setup with tower speakers, center, surrounds, and subwoofer etc. Any tips here?
3. some advice on which brand/model speakers are to be paired with which receivers? For eg. would B&W (684, HTM62, 686, ASW608) work well with Yamaha RX-V575 or Marantz SR5008?
4. Once there is a clear-cut choice on the brand/model of receivers/speakers– I’ll also need to locate a supplier and consider the 220volt/50hz matter as I’m in India. I’m guessing the subwoofer has to be rated for 220volt/50hz supply – but what about the other speakers?

I apologize for the long-winded post and for posting this also on both the Receivers & Speakers thread - but just wanted to reach out to experts in both areas as some questions are linked.
I thank you all for reading and never can thank you enough for any tips and guidance.

For your receiver, I think you've made a great choice with the Marantz SR-5008, and I'd second it. It has plenty of power on its own (200WPC in a 7.2 config), but also has 7 channel analog outs in case you move into a larger, dedicated HT space, or just WANT an amp. It's brand-new, a 2013 model, 899.99 MSRP, but can be frequently found for less. You can Airplay to it from your iOS devices, for wireless music whenever you want.

For your speakers, I'd recommend the below. For a mix of HT and music use, you'll have an extremely-well performing system for your space.

PSB Image 5.1 package

PSB Image T6 Pair
PSB Image B6 Bookshelf pair
PSB Image C5 Center
Hsu VTF-2 Mk4 Subwoofer

The package runs $2676.00

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post #39 of 121 Old 07-10-2013, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by [Irishman] 
For your receiver, I think you've made a great choice with the Marantz SR-5008 ... It has plenty of power on its own (200WPC in a 7.2 config) ...
Curious: According to its product page, the SR5008 is rated at 100W/ch. into 8 ohms; 140W/ch. into 6 ohms. How does a 7.2 config boost its power rating to 200W/ch.?
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post #40 of 121 Old 07-10-2013, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post

PSB Image 5.1 package

PSB Image T6 Pair
PSB Image B6 Bookshelf pair
PSB Image C5 Center
Hsu VTF-2 Mk4 Subwoofer

The package runs $2676.00
The PSB Owners Thread inhabitants suggested getting the B5 Bookshelves, as they sport the same 5 1/4" woofers as the T6 towers and C5 center (and they cost less smile.gif).

Panasonic 55" VT50
PSB Imagine T2 / SVS SB12
Denon X4000
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post #41 of 121 Old 07-10-2013, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grnsr View Post

Attached is the comparison report of STR-DN1040 vs STR-DA1800ES as per Sony's US website...
Sony STR-DN1040 vs STR-DA1800ES 160k .pdf file

Just wanted to know everyone's opinion on whether upgrading to STR-DA1800ES would be worth it considering the additional decoders...

The one disadvantage is STR-DA1800ES doesn't have a front input HDMI or Mobile Highdefinition Link - available on the STR-DN1040.
and the other major difference is 5 year warranty for STR-DA1800ES vs what seems like 1 or 2 year warranty STR-DN1040 (not clear)

The STR-DA1800ES is now available for less than the STR-DN1040
http://www.powersellernyc.com/Catalog/View/123566

The new GUI on the 1040 IMO would be worth the difference and lesser warranty.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Harman Kardon AVR 1600
PS3, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Qattron
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post #42 of 121 Old 07-10-2013, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Have located dealers of B & W, Totem, Tannoy, JBL, Paradigm, Martin Logan and DALI for India... will go demo these and report back



Still undecided about the Receiver - can someone pl .help me with this choice:

STR-DN1040 (1 or 2 yr warranty?, front input HDMI or Mobile Highdefinition Link, 165W per channel)
vs
STR-DA1800ES (5 yr warranty, more decoders?, 100W per channel) - is this last year's model - since the ES is their top range series and seems to have lower specs than the DN series?

at this point there are no other contenders... that match most of requirements - the only things missing are the THX certification and Dolby Volume...
whichever if finalized - I will need to locate it with 220v / 50Hz rating

Thanks again for all the suggestions and responses...
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post #43 of 121 Old 07-10-2013, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salamandro View Post

The PSB Owners Thread inhabitants suggested getting the B5 Bookshelves, as they sport the same 5 1/4" woofers as the T6 towers and C5 center (and they cost less smile.gif).

Good catch!

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post #44 of 121 Old 07-10-2013, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grnsr View Post

Have located dealers of B & W, Totem, Tannoy, JBL, Paradigm, Martin Logan and DALI for India... will go demo these and report back



Still undecided about the Receiver - can someone pl .help me with this choice:

STR-DN1040 (1 or 2 yr warranty?, front input HDMI or Mobile Highdefinition Link, 165W per channel)
vs
STR-DA1800ES (5 yr warranty, more decoders?, 100W per channel) - is this last year's model - since the ES is their top range series and seems to have lower specs than the DN series?

at this point there are no other contenders... that match most of requirements - the only things missing are the THX certification and Dolby Volume...
whichever if finalized - I will need to locate it with 220v / 50Hz rating

Thanks again for all the suggestions and responses...

The ES1800 is the ES version of last year's 1030. The 1040 has a vastly superior GUI and faster HDMI switching. The actual power rating for all 3 is the same. The 1040 "165 watt/channel" is some marketing BS. Same power as last year.

Again, I would get the 1040 even if it costs more than the ES1800.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Harman Kardon AVR 1600
PS3, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Qattron
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post #45 of 121 Old 07-10-2013, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Curious: According to its product page, the SR5008 is rated at 100W/ch. into 8 ohms; 140W/ch. into 6 ohms. How does a 7.2 config boost its power rating to 200W/ch.?

It doesn't. Thanks for correcting my error. I was going by the stated power I had recently read on best buy's site. They had taken the overall power rating of 1400 watts, and divided that by 7 to get 200. Reading further into their own specs, they reiterate your observation of 100 wpc into 8ohms.

I happily stand corrected. smile.gif

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post #46 of 121 Old 07-10-2013, 10:54 AM
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OK, thanks for the clarification. And +1 to the SR5008. cool.gif
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post #47 of 121 Old 07-10-2013, 12:09 PM
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@grnsr

I'm an Indian expat living in the US and I can certainly feel your frustration with regards to customs and taxes....i also know that there is almost NO market for used audio gear there...I am pretty certain that you've already done this but in case you haven't, visiting the dealer locator section under a manufacturer's website has helped me find dealers for even brands that I would have sworn had no way of existing in India. Since many of today's products are shipped from China, the prices may not be very different from here...For instance, I know that Kef, Wharfedale, PSB, Dali, Dynaudio etc have dealers there...
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post #48 of 121 Old 07-10-2013, 09:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Do you happen to have the dealer locations of Kef, Wharfedale, PSB and Dynaudio?
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post #49 of 121 Old 07-11-2013, 01:50 AM - Thread Starter
 
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folks... I'm back to square one with the speakers... the B&W 600 series is made in China ...
I'd rather buy products made in USA or friendly nations like Canada, UK, Denmark, Japan...
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post #50 of 121 Old 07-11-2013, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grnsr View Post

I'd rather buy products made in USA or friendly nations like Canada, UK, Denmark, Japan...

...Australia? Not too far away.

Ascension Loudspeakers...


Designed and built by a small firm in South Australia. They look to specialise in horn loaded ribbon tweeters and transmission line bass alignments. Real timber veneer. Some monster centre channels... biggrin.gif

A massive range of speakers (70?) and subs means they must be made to order. Edward, the owner/designer/builder is well known as a very accommodating bloke, who I'm sure would put together a system to match your specific needs and budget.

I've never heard them, but only ever heard glowing reports from those that have.

The website doesn't say he'll ship internationally... but it doesn't say he won't either!

http://www.adelaidespeakers.com/index.html

Hard to demo though... perhaps you need to come to Australia for a holiday? biggrin.gif
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post #51 of 121 Old 07-11-2013, 12:04 PM
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sorry for the late response but here it goes....


first off check out this place...they seem to be distributors carrying multiple brands

http://www.kripaindia.com/wher-to-buy.php

here are the specific company dealers/distributors you were asking for...

Dali

http://www.dali-speakers.com/en-US/Dealer-locator-1.aspx?nzArea=India

KEF

KEF dealer distributor in India

1. PRO FX - MUMBAI
246 & 247, IIND FLOOR
ATRIA THE MILLENIUM MALL, WORLI
MUMBAI-400 018.
PH: 022-65139936/24813645

2. PRO FX - KOLKATA
16/2, HINDUSTHAN ROAD
KOLKATA - 700 029.
PH: 033-24669301/05

3. PRO FX - BENGALURU
BARTON CENTRE
84, MG ROAD
BENGALURU-560 001.
PH: 080-65639334/25588582

4. PRO FX - CHENNAI
S-37, 2ND PHASE, 2ND FLOOR
SPENCER PLAZA, ANNA SALAI
CHENNAI-600 002.
PH: 044-28498386/9

5. PRO FX - COIMBATORE
1045, VODAFONE BUILDING
AVINASHI ROAD
COIMBATORE-641 018.
PH:0422-4273734

6. PRO FX - REGIONAL OFFICE : NORTH
304, ASHOK BHAVAN
93, NEHRU PLACE
NEW DELHI-110 019.
MOB: 098101 00942

7. PRO FX – HYDERABAD
S103, FIRST FLOOR
BABHUKHAN MALL
SOMAJIGUDA CIRCLE
HYDERABAD-500016.
PH: 040 – 3912 2036

8. PRO FX – CORPORATE OFFICE
DYNAMIC HOUSE
64, CHURCH STREET
BENGALURU-560001.
PH: 080-65686722

Wharfedale

http://www.wharfedale.co.uk/Support/DistributorsDealers/tabid/61/Default.aspx?CountryID=17#countryinfo

PSB

PSB Distributor for India:
Lakozy Impex & Services
Showroom No 3, Lakozy Mansion, 21 Chowpatty Seaface
Mumbai 400007 +91 22 23697001/02
+91 22 23698001 (fax)

Dynaudio

http://www.dynaudio.com/in/dealers.php
(choose the appropriate state in the drop down box)
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post #52 of 121 Old 07-11-2013, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by grnsr View Post

folks... I'm back to square one with the speakers... the B&W 600 series is made in China ...
I'd rather buy products made in USA or friendly nations like Canada, UK, Denmark, Japan...

Unfortunately all the less expensive gears are made in China. All the Focal are made in France. All Dynaudio are made in Denmark. All ATC are made in England.

Of course, you know that where they are made has little to so with their sound quality.

$5K speakers from Revel, B&W, KEF, PSB, Paradigm, etc, are made in China or have the majority of the parts made in China.
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post #53 of 121 Old 07-12-2013, 03:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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@jinxeddeep - Thank you so much for taking the time to locate and post the details - I'm in Bangalore - hopefully they will have something to demo in these locations...

@AcuDefTechGuy - I agree with you... quality and price and where they are made aren't necessarily correlated... However - if I'm having "sparkling wine made somewhere by the champagne method" - I'd like to know and decide accordingly... Apple proudly (I'd say apologetically) touts "Designed by Apple in California. Assembled in China". Its a shame... however many people still go for it..
Is there going to be a day when a RollsRoyce or Ferrari will carry the "designed in UK/Italy but unfortunately our education, labor, safety, insurance and medical costs are so high that they could be made only in China"...
I hope this doesn't come across as bigoted - but I'd sure as hell stay from BMW cars or B&W speakers made in China... not because of quality issues or racism - but because its just not the same...

Considering I'm not an audiophile with a deep-pocket nor am I going to go for the "cheap and best" (which is actually an oxymoron but is the most common refrain you hear when you shop in India).. I'm still looking for the ideal combination or branding, quality and price...
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post #54 of 121 Old 07-12-2013, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by grnsr View Post

@jinxeddeep - Thank you so much for taking the time to locate and post the details - I'm in Bangalore - hopefully they will have something to demo in these locations...

@AcuDefTechGuy - I agree with you... quality and price and where they are made aren't necessarily correlated... However - if I'm having "sparkling wine made somewhere by the champagne method" - I'd like to know and decide accordingly... Apple proudly (I'd say apologetically) touts "Designed by Apple in California. Assembled in China". Its a shame... however many people still go for it..
Is there going to be a day when a RollsRoyce or Ferrari will carry the "designed in UK/Italy but unfortunately our education, labor, safety, insurance and medical costs are so high that they could be made only in China"...
I hope this doesn't come across as bigoted - but I'd sure as hell stay from BMW cars or B&W speakers made in China... not because of quality issues or racism - but because its just not the same...

Considering I'm not an audiophile with a deep-pocket nor am I going to go for the "cheap and best" (which is actually an oxymoron but is the most common refrain you hear when you shop in India).. I'm still looking for the ideal combination or branding, quality and price...

No. As long as we are willing to pay the premium, there will always be products made in England, Italy, France, USA, etc.

The Denon 4311 (lowest price I've seen new is $1225) and higher end Deno/Marantz are made in Japan. About every other AVR (Sony) is made in China.

You could get some ATC SCM7 (England) for $1K/Pr new. Also get bookshelves from Focal and Dynaudio.

About the only thing I have that is made in China are my TAD 2201 speakers, which had an original MSRP of $3K/ pair. And they sound just as great as any other bookshelf speaker.
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post #55 of 121 Old 07-12-2013, 05:28 AM
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I can understand grnsr with his qualms against "Made in China". In order for us to have cheaper products (or the manufacturer have higher margins...), workers in China are being exploited (Foxconn, anyone?).

But it's gotten hard these days in the midrange electronical market... I myself am turning a blind eye on this, so it hasn't been a criteria in choosing hifi products (or smartphones, or computers).

Panasonic 55" VT50
PSB Imagine T2 / SVS SB12
Denon X4000
Sony BDP-S5100 / OUYA w/ XBMC
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post #56 of 121 Old 07-12-2013, 06:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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ok could you guys help me with the top speakers brands that sell products in my price range that are not made in China:

Focal (France)
Dynaudio (Denmark)
DALI (Denmark)
ATC (UK)
Adelaide (Aus)

may be I'll start a thread - on which country makes the best speakers on earth... it'd have to be a debate but not a poll - because the poll may be skewed towards the US where the majority of the readers of this website are from..

when it comes to cars - there'd be no doubt the Germans would win hands down - although the Japanese will come in a close second... not sure of third place but who cares...

and btw: the Sony - receivers are mostly made in Malaysia - which I'm quite neutral to...
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post #57 of 121 Old 07-12-2013, 06:05 AM
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[quote name="grnsr" url="/t/1480568/seeking-guidance-on-best-5-1-speakers-for-2500/30#post_23520094Is there going to be a day when a RollsRoyce or Ferrari will carry the "designed in UK/Italy but unfortunately our education, labor, safety, insurance and medical costs are so high that they could be made only in China"...
I hope this doesn't come across as bigoted - but I'd sure as hell stay from BMW cars or B&W speakers made in China... not because of quality issues or racism - but because its just not the same...

...[/quote]

Just curious, what if the product is considered by many to be best in class for its price? The oppo 103 (and 105, not to mention legacy models) come to mind as components that are considered by many to be unrivaled at their price point but they've been made in China all along.

Bigoted would be much too strong a word for it, but it seems to me that brand recognition and/or country of origin are important to you for reasons that are "intangible" for lack of a better word. If its not "quality", "performance" etc. then its ultimately about the cachet/brand, and if the country of origin is influencing your perception of such then there may be an element of racism at play or at least some bias against that country. Please don't consider this an attack... frankly, I've long been a fan of API products (Former Canadian brand owner (and pioneer) of Sound Dynamics, Energy, Mirage amoung others. My first two speaker sets were API products which were made in Canada, my current Energy set is made in China and I did consider the country of origin to be a disadvantage, but the speakers (for their price) are very robust and sound great to my ears. You will probably have a much easier time finding a product that is within your budget and meets your performance criteria if you leave the country of origin out of your decision.

I do agree with you regarding BMW or Ferrari etc. as the country of origin has a lot to do with the mystique of the brands... I don't think its quite the same with home audio.
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post #58 of 121 Old 07-12-2013, 06:31 AM
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Your asking about the receiver in the speakers thread. I don't know anything about the Sony receivers you are looking at but I do have some experience with a Sony receiver that I just replaced. It was the STR-DG510 and I replaced it because it seemed like audio was not great and power output was not great. I would take company statements of the power output of receivers with a grain of salt as it can depend so much on how the measurement is made. The Sony I had was replaced with a Pioneer SC-1522K when they went on sale at Costco and the result, using the exact same speakers, was night and day. Dialogue was much cleaner and where I felt the speakers were letting me down with the Sony during loud portions of movies the same speakers performed excellent with the Pioneer. And no, I very rarely listen at extremely high volume levels. Even at lower levels the Sony just did not perform. My recommendation would be to stay away from the Sony...

Darenwh

Just getting started. Hope to have some decent equipment within a year or two.
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post #59 of 121 Old 07-12-2013, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Not quite. Take a look at the frequency response graph


4gye372
from this review:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/review-hsu-research-hb-1-mk2
General effect
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post #60 of 121 Old 07-12-2013, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by grnsr View Post

@jinxeddeep - Thank you so much for taking the time to locate and post the details - I'm in Bangalore - hopefully they will have something to demo in these locations...

Considering I'm not an audiophile with a deep-pocket nor am I going to go for the "cheap and best" (which is actually an oxymoron but is the most common refrain you hear when you shop in India).. I'm still looking for the ideal combination or branding, quality and price...

lol its been so long since I heard that phrase...

Martin Logan (their electrostatic line) and Thiel manufacture their products in the US...but they may be out of your price range...
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