Seeking guidance on best 3.1 Active speakers for US$2500-$2800 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 121 Old 07-24-2013, 05:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
[Irishman]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,443
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by grnsr View Post

another question when setting-up a 5.1channel - is there a way to somehow use the TV's built-in speakers as the center channel?
this would greatly improve the WAF - and also the budget I have to put down on the floor standers...

also would the B&W 805Diamond be sufficient as the main L-R floor standers?

Nope.

If your wife has drawn a line at a center speaker, you're better off setting up the system with what's known as a phantom center. In essence, you'd have a front left and front right as usual, but you'd configure it to mimic the behavior of a center channel. It's not optimal, but it may end up being necessary in your situation.

Technically, the 805 Diamonds are not floor standing speakers. They're monitor (bookshelf) speakers that will need to have a stand. They'll be more than fine for your room. Plus, they're gorgeous, so that helps get the CFO onboard. smile.gif Also, a technical point: the 805 Diamonds will only go down to about 40hz, so although this will be fine for most music (unless you listen to nothing but dubstep and pipe organ music). It's only in movies that you'll want to pair it with a sub.

COMING SOONFinding the Ark of the Covenant by Brian Roberts, in the iBook Store on iTunes, a new investigation into the Hebrew’s Most Sacred Relic!
[Irishman] is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 121 Old 07-24-2013, 05:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
[Irishman]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,443
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinxeddeep View Post

Marantz's receivers have nearly the exact same components as Denon and I own the SR6007 Denon equivalent and I can tell you that the Audio quality is nothing to write home about...most of the changes made to differentiate the two brands' receivers is on the chassis which is a little tougher and nicer looking on the Marantz. I apologize in advance if I've got my fact wrongs but this is what I gathered from the internet and I've seen up close the two models and took a peek inside as well.

Actually, that's incorrect. Here's a write-up by Cliff Heyne over at audioholics.com explaining the differences between Denon and Marantz AVRs (At least their 2013 models):

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/marantz-sr5008-sr6008-sr7008
skidawgz likes this.

COMING SOONFinding the Ark of the Covenant by Brian Roberts, in the iBook Store on iTunes, a new investigation into the Hebrew’s Most Sacred Relic!
[Irishman] is offline  
post #93 of 121 Old 07-24-2013, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
ok... having read other posts on the TV speakers as center channel - I realize the wisdom in not doing it (even if the TV has a center in and very good speakers)

now if I were to go the separates route - would it make sense to get powered speakers and a processor? (if so which processor - my main reqmts - bluetooth, 4k passthrough, MHL, USB input)

or is the passive speaker, amp, processor - the best way to do it?

i know i'm all over the place - but I'm counting on everyone's patience and experience to do this right...

thanks again folks
grnsr is offline  
post #94 of 121 Old 07-24-2013, 02:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
[Irishman]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,443
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by grnsr View Post

ok... having read other posts on the TV speakers as center channel - I realize the wisdom in not doing it (even if the TV has a center in and very good speakers)

now if I were to go the separates route - would it make sense to get powered speakers and a processor? (if so which processor - my main reqmts - bluetooth, 4k passthrough, MHL, USB input)

or is the passive speaker, amp, processor - the best way to do it?

i know i'm all over the place - but I'm counting on everyone's patience and experience to do this right...

thanks again folks

For room correction, Audyssey MultEQ XT in Denon, Onkyo and Marantz AVRs is really competent. I'd suggest thinking about getting an SR5008 Marantz with 7 channel pre-outs. That way, if you like the sound as produced by the internal amp, call it a day and enjoy it. This AVR features Airplay, Internet radio, bluetooth is optional (RX-101 Adapter) if you want to scratch that itch. Further, If you want the extra power of a separate amp, IF you don't like the power of the built-in amp, you can add something like an Emotiva XPA-5 later to beef it up for your room.

http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AVReceivers&SubCatId=0&ProductId=SR5008

http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/xpa-5

Just my 2 cents.

COMING SOONFinding the Ark of the Covenant by Brian Roberts, in the iBook Store on iTunes, a new investigation into the Hebrew’s Most Sacred Relic!
[Irishman] is offline  
post #95 of 121 Old 07-24-2013, 02:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Nethawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Here's your answer to getting rid of bluetooth as a requirement:

Google Chromecast

Nethawk is offline  
post #96 of 121 Old 07-24-2013, 03:28 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cschang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 14,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Here's your answer to getting rid of bluetooth as a requirement:

Google Chromecast
Was reading about that today...

I can't wait until you can send and play FLAC files with that thing.
Nethawk likes this.

-curtis

Owner of Wave Crest Audio
Volunteer Mod at the Ascend Acoustics Forum
Like all things on the Internet, do your research, as forums have a good amount of misinformation.
Help beat breast cancer!

cschang is offline  
post #97 of 121 Old 07-24-2013, 05:05 PM
Senior Member
 
Kisakuku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post

For room correction, Audyssey MultEQ XT in Denon, Onkyo and Marantz AVRs is really competent. I'd suggest thinking about getting an SR5008 Marantz with 7 channel pre-outs.

Out of the Marantz line only SR7008 has XT32. I would vote for Denon X4000 instead.
Kisakuku is offline  
post #98 of 121 Old 07-24-2013, 06:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
[Irishman]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,443
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisakuku View Post

Out of the Marantz line only SR7008 has XT32. I would vote for Denon X4000 instead.

I hesitated about mentioning Audyssey at all out of concern that it would create the impression that I was offering this AVR just for it. I'm not. As far as the overall AVR package, for the budget the OP stated, the SR5008 will respect it. The AVR-X4000 will destroy it (not in a good way). The Marantz is $899. The Denon is $1299. That's half his budget on the AVR, before he adds anything else!

And he's already looking at some B&Ws! biggrin.gif

COMING SOONFinding the Ark of the Covenant by Brian Roberts, in the iBook Store on iTunes, a new investigation into the Hebrew’s Most Sacred Relic!
[Irishman] is offline  
post #99 of 121 Old 07-24-2013, 06:29 PM
Senior Member
 
skidawgz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 494
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post

Actually, that's incorrect. Here's a write-up by Cliff Heyne over at audioholics.com explaining the differences between Denon and Marantz AVRs (At least their 2013 models):

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/marantz-sr5008-sr6008-sr7008

Thanks, I don't like that everyone keeps repeating that marantz and Denon are the same. They share many similarities, but they certainly don't even sound the same. I'd purchase either w/o problem tho.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Was reading about that today...

I can't wait until you can send and play FLAC files with that thing.

You can, and I do (before chromecast) You can upload 20k music files to Google Music, for free. Google suppoerts FLAC and WAVE. You can play Google Music files over Chromecast. I actually just checked on this thread just to make the recommendation for Chromecast. I am waiting for them to become available again, as it is a must have for me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post

I hesitated about mentioning Audyssey at all out of concern that it would create the impression that I was offering this AVR just for it. I'm not. As far as the overall AVR package, for the budget the OP stated, the SR5008 will respect it. The AVR-X4000 will destroy it (not in a good way). The Marantz is $899. The Denon is $1299. That's half his budget on the AVR, before he adds anything else!

And he's already looking at some B&Ws! biggrin.gif

It should have been mentioned that you don't mix terrible center w/ great speakers.
What does the wife currently approve of?

AVR: Marantz 7008 Phono: Pro-Ject Debut III Speakers: BW CMC2 + 2xCM9 + Energy 2xCB-10 (rear)
TV: Panasonic 65ZT60, Samsung 60F5300
skidawgz is offline  
post #100 of 121 Old 07-24-2013, 10:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Dear All,

A local dealer is advising that the "Active speaker" route is a much better way to do it than "Passive speakers"
He strongly suggests going with a basic processor and anything from Genelec (especially 1000 series) without DSP (since it saves about 30% and DSP is needed only if we calibrate frequently etc)

He says this will stand-up to any setup with B&W - he grants that the diamond tweeters and kevlar cones are good but for the overall depth and fullness, studio grade and audiophile quality - the Genelec will beat B&W.
He is not particularly a Genelac dealer - and he sells most brands...including some "pretty good value" Indian brands like Sonodyne...

How true is all of this "active speaker vs "passive speaker" ?

All along I've been looking at "passive speakers" - since I also have a pair old Bose Lifestyle speakers
http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/shop_online/speakers/stereo_speakers/201_speakers/index.jsp
which I could possibly use as Surround speakers until I can fully timber match with the new setup I am building in stages...

Now I'm really not clear on this particular aspect - which is the better way to do it... active speakers and a processor VS the passive speaker and receiver

Pl. help.
grnsr is offline  
post #101 of 121 Old 07-24-2013, 11:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ifor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: La Quinta, CA
Posts: 2,444
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 47
It's not really passive vs active, It's quality over quality.
You can find poor sounding active speakers as well as passive speakers.

Since the dealer sells Genelec, they will steer you in that direction since they will most likely have no other price competition and/or they really like Genelec's sound.

Genelec is well regarded and so is B&W.
You can use the room correction built into a receiver if one is available in it, which most offer one sort or another.
ifor is offline  
post #102 of 121 Old 07-25-2013, 01:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
@ifor - Thanks for the reply... I understand we have to evaluate only what can be compared... I'm clearly not looking to compare the performance of some high end passive speakers with active speakers from some cheap brand...

I'm specifically comparing B&W805Diamond to the performance of Genlec (1000 series and not sure which other series to compare to)...

if both brands are well regarded - which is better?
looks-wise the B&W has a much higher WAF - but when it comes to performance and quality - does the "Genlec active factor" somehow give it a significant advantage over B&W?

that is my dealers contention... and that is what I'm looking for some considered opinion on from this forum...

He is willing to sell me either B&W or Genlec or Tannoy or Motion or whatever I want...
grnsr is offline  
post #103 of 121 Old 07-25-2013, 03:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ifor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: La Quinta, CA
Posts: 2,444
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 47
After reading through your thread, you have a few requirements for the speakers.

I haven't heard Genelec in a while, but I remember them being direct.
Being that they are studio monitors, they will not gloss over any detriments in the sound. They are also not very friendly looking, and they are near-field monitors which make longer distance listening a concern.

You also have to consider that all speakers will require power outlets at each location.

I am not sure if you finalized on the receiver but if not, I would recommend either Marantz or Pioneer Elite.
Marantz has great build quality and a very good amplifier section.
Pioneer Elite has a new digital amp section so efficiency, power and very lo wheat are the benefit. Both units have all the requisite features that you listed before.

As for speakers, I don't know what looks you are going for, but if you want good looks and sound with floorstanding units as your mains, I would look at Dali and Triad.
I can vouche for Dali speakers being built in Denmark because I visited the factory. Triad speakers are made in USA and are fantastic speakers.

I know that Triad doesn't make a traditional floorstanding speaker but they do make matching pedestals for any of their in-room models. They also do veneers (and bookmatched to boot) also for any model. They have veneer samples online but they MAY send you a sample book if you ask. Another nice feature is that they match sound from various speaker types in their respective lines, ie, In the Bronze line, they make in-rooms, in-ceilings and wall mounts that sound very similar to each other so you can be assured that you will have consistent sound from any of the speakers in the room.
Here are some pics of the build quality of Triad speakers. http://www.avsforum.com/t/921427/triad-owners-thread/4890#post_23116440

I hope I didn't muddy you up too much.

fyi, look at the new Google Chromecast.
ifor is offline  
post #104 of 121 Old 07-25-2013, 03:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
@ifor - thanks for the info.
will chek out Triad (another one to the mix)

but I'm actually still at square one...

1. Are active monitors - innately better than passive speakers (assuming we are comparing sensibly - hifi, audiophile, studio grade speaker models)
2. if active speakers are indeed better - then should I still get a receiver (and use it as a processor) or go for a processor?
3. I can't seem to find a simple processor that has just the basics - a few HDMI inputs, 5.1ch preout, 4k passthrough, source switching and all necessary decoders, ethernet for firmware updates at around the USD500 price point?

can someone suggest the best make/models of processors that offer the basic features I need?
I was hoping to be able to eliminate having to connect my spare laptop (with USB, Wifi and Bluetooth) to the setup - but it seems most receivers USB ports may not even read the NTFS hard-disk and all the file video formats (avi, divx, mkv, mpg, mp4) ... so the laptop and VLC media player need to be an integral part of the setup - if so I think I'm willing to forego the Bluetooth, wifi, USB input etc - as all these are available on the laptop except for the MHL would be the only thing missing
grnsr is offline  
post #105 of 121 Old 07-25-2013, 05:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ifor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: La Quinta, CA
Posts: 2,444
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 47
1. You will never get a consensus on whether active is better than passive or vice versa. It is still a very vague question. It's like asking what's better a car or a truck. It all depends on your requirements. Then there are different brands (Ford, GM Chevy etc.) and different models in each brand. Active designers will tell you that they tailor the amp sections for their drivers and tweeters yielding better results. Hi-fi, audiophile and studio grade are the same thing, they are all trying to accomplish the reproduction of sound as cleanly as possible. The only difference is that some are engineered for different environments, such as near-field studio monitors.

2. You will most likely have to go with a receiver and forgo the amp section if you want a processor. They make more, and sell more, receivers than processors so that's the reason for the disparity.

3. The Least expensive processor is the Marantz AV7701 or the Emotiva UMC-200 but that is a far cry away from $500. I would definitely, at least, double you receiver/processor budget.
ifor is offline  
post #106 of 121 Old 07-25-2013, 05:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ifor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: La Quinta, CA
Posts: 2,444
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 47
If you are leaning towards Genelec, then look at their HT line of speakers, not the 1000 series.

http://www.genelec.com/products/residential-loudspeakers/
ifor is offline  
post #107 of 121 Old 07-25-2013, 06:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Nethawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidawgz View Post

You can, and I do (before chromecast) You can upload 20k music files to Google Music, for free. Google suppoerts FLAC and WAVE. You can play Google Music files over Chromecast. I actually just checked on this thread just to make the recommendation for Chromecast. I am waiting for them to become available again, as it is a must have for me!

Google transcodes flac to 320kbps mp3. I'm with Curtis, I'd like to see support for flac playback. For this reason I keep my local files out of the cloud.

Nethawk is offline  
post #108 of 121 Old 07-25-2013, 07:14 PM
Senior Member
 
skidawgz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 494
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Google transcodes flac to 320kbps mp3. I'm with Curtis, I'd like to see support for flac playback. For this reason I keep my local files out of the cloud.

thanks for letting me know, and I guess that's what you get for free!

Try Synology NAS and the applicable apps it offers.
Nethawk likes this.

AVR: Marantz 7008 Phono: Pro-Ject Debut III Speakers: BW CMC2 + 2xCM9 + Energy 2xCB-10 (rear)
TV: Panasonic 65ZT60, Samsung 60F5300
skidawgz is offline  
post #109 of 121 Old 07-25-2013, 10:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Nethawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 115
^^ I can't detect a difference above 192kbps listening to anything but classical but it took a lot of work to rip my music to flac, by golly it's what I'm going to listen to smile.gif

The one bummer about Google Play streaming is lack of mobile playback control. Most of my casual listening is from a setup with computer directly connected to an AVR serving 2 zones. My own collection with foobar2000, Squeezebox, Spotify, MOG, Pandora can all be run from my server with good control via Android, but with Listen Now I have only basic control via Unified Remote app. This is why I'm interested in chromecast for audio - to be able to use the Google Play app.

Nethawk is offline  
post #110 of 121 Old 07-25-2013, 10:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Nethawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 115
For professional nearfield use I haven't heard passive speakers that can equal actives, but they come at a steep price. Anything else I've heard and was impressed with probably had nothing to do with their being active speakers, just good designs. The same with passive speakers. They either sound good and measure well or they don't. Their difference, IMO, is no more debatable than one amp sounding better than the other.

Nethawk is offline  
post #111 of 121 Old 07-26-2013, 03:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
ok if I'm going the active speakers route and am building in stages with an initial budget of about $1500 to $2000 for the L-R pair - which make/models should I consider?

Genlec, Dynaudio, ATC, PMC, ME-Geithain etc?
grnsr is offline  
post #112 of 121 Old 07-28-2013, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Folks,

Thank you for all the responses in this thread - which has evolved quite a bit...
It has been quite a learning experience... and thanks to my dealer who put me on the "Active" vs "passive" consideration...
I was once in love with B&W 800s or even 600s and now they just seem like a really beautiful but shallow girl who isn't marriage material. (The B&W Nautilus of course is a different beast - as it is probably the best fully active speaker in the world)

I now realize once you go Active you can never go back...

So...here is what I can summarize of my fine tuned requirements so far:
1. WAF: "Anything you want but not too loud, not too big and not too ugly..."
2. Budget: around US$2000-$2200 for the mains (LCR) and around US$500-$700 for the sub (which I will start a separate thread for)
3. Speaker characteristics:
- 2 way Active cross-over, Bi-amped
- Drive size: 5" to 7"
- Freq. response: 50Hz to 21kHz
- Inputs: 3 pin XLR, 1.4" TRS
- Power Supply: 220V / 50 Hz
- Optional considerations: Good quality 3 way Active, Tri-amped speakers if available within the budget
4. Sub characteristics:
- Powered, Active with filter to exclude HF
- Drive size: 10" to 12"
- Freq. response: 18Hz to 100Hz
- Inputs: 3 pin XLR, 1.4" TRS, RCA
- Power Supply: 220V / 50 Hz
- Not sure about sealed. open etc...
- It will rest on the floor - so I gez it should be side firing

Prefer speakers that are actually made in Europe, Australia or North America - if they are from north America they do have to be specifically rated for 220v/50Hz which may be hard to find..

ok now that most technical parameters are nailed down (I've modified the title of the thread accordingly)...
I'm looking for some more opinions to help narrow down the specific make/models that I should go for...

so far based on what I'm hearing .. the brands/quality/performance perception rank/bracket seems to be:

for speakers:
1. AVI, PMC, ATC
2. Genelec, Focal, Mackies, ADAM, Event
3. DynAudio, RCF, Behringer, M-Audio, KRK

Would this ranking/bracketing be about right?

for Subs:
SVS, HSU, Rhythmic, Seaton, JTR (not sure of the rank brackets for the subs)

Any other suggestions...

Pl. suggest specific models that I could consider in my budget range...
grnsr is offline  
post #113 of 121 Old 07-28-2013, 11:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ifor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: La Quinta, CA
Posts: 2,444
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 47
How many threads do you have going regarding your system? I think you would have more cohesive responses if you only had one thread.

BTW, the Nautilus isn't an active speaker.

I think you would be better served by going with a 2.1 system so you can increase your processor and subwoofer budget and get the center and surrounds later on.

Also keep in mind that most powered monitors don't come with speaker grills. The drivers will be exposed all the time. Just fyi.
Check out the SVS PB12-NSD sub.
ifor is offline  
post #114 of 121 Old 07-29-2013, 12:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifor View Post

How many threads do you have going regarding your system? I think you would have more cohesive responses if you only had one thread.

BTW, the Nautilus isn't an active speaker.

I think you would be better served by going with a 2.1 system so you can increase your processor and subwoofer budget and get the center and surrounds later on.

Also keep in mind that most powered monitors don't come with speaker grills. The drivers will be exposed all the time. Just fyi.
Check out the SVS PB12-NSD sub.

The other thread "title" attracted responders to the debate on Active vs Passive - which is now settled.
I have come back to my original thread on deciding the speakers within the budget.. and also to possibly inform other followers of this thread who were considering speakers with the same budget... but were stuck in the "passive" world...

Regarding Nautilus - I too was surprised to find out that it was fully active but here's the link from B&W website:
http://blog.bowers-wilkins.com/speakers/the-story-behind-the-finest-speaker-in-the-world/

"Rather than potentially inhibit the performance of the system by employing a conventional passive crossover network, Nautilus™ employs sophisticated active filters and separate power amplifiers for each driver. Active filters and separate power amplifiers, while impractical for most domestic audio applications through cost and the shear bulk of necessary electronics, are the true no-compromise solution to dividing the audio bandwidth between drivers. As a ‘no compromise’ project, Nautilus™ could really follow no other path."

If the drivers are exposed all the time - they are going to get dusty - how do I clean or maintain them?
grnsr is offline  
post #115 of 121 Old 07-29-2013, 12:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ifor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: La Quinta, CA
Posts: 2,444
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 47
The Nautilus can use up to 4 separate amps for each speaker but does not include them, although they do come with the active crossover network. B&W, Classe and Rotel are all owned by the same company (Equity Audio) and B&W dealers are, more than likely, also Classe dealers to sell you both speakers and amps.

Look at a pair of the Adam Audio ARTist 6 speakers, the SVS PB12-NSD sub and the Marantz AV7701 processor. Look at the center and surrounds later on.
ifor is offline  
post #116 of 121 Old 07-29-2013, 02:34 AM - Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
B&H has the following pairs of DynAudio, Tannoy on sale:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/696917-REG/Dynaudio_Acoustics_BM_5A_MKII_BM_5A_MKII_7.html - special price of pair below US$750
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/490879-REG/Dynaudio_Acoustics_995_002211_BM6AMkII_150W_6_9.html - special price of below US$1300

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/727580-REG/Tannoy_8001_5870_Reveal_601A_6_5_Active.html - special price of pair below US$350 (but made in China?)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/727579-REG/Tannoy_8001_5850_Reveal_501A_5_Active.html - special price of pair below US$400 (but made in China?)

How do DynAudio and Tannoy compare to Genelec, Focal, ADAM, and Neumann

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/967468-REG/genelec_8030bpm_5_compact_2_way_active.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/966519-REG/genelec_m030am_m030_active_two_way_5.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/687632-REG/Focal_Professional_FOPRO_CMS50_CMS_50_5_Active.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/687633-REG/Focal_Professional_FOPRO_CMS65_CMS_65_5_Active.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/688848-REG/Adam_Professional_Audio_A7X_A7X_7_150W_Active.html


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/750764-REG/Neumann_KH_120_A_G_KH_120_5_25_2_Way.html


Hoping that the above will be sufficient for my aptmt with living room of size (15' x 16') open to Dining room (11' x 11') - ceiling height is 10'

The below is the lowest priced 3 way I could find in the above group of makers:
Adam Audio ARTist 6 which is a 2 way and just seems to be just 10% lower than the Adam A77X - 3 way
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/771269-REG/Adam_Professional_Audio_ARTIST_6_BLACK_ARTist_6_150W_Dual.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/857499-REG/Adam_Professional_Audio_A77X_A77X_2_Way_Active_Studio.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/870035-REG/Adam_Professional_Audio_A77X_B_A77XR_2_Way_Active_Studio.html

apart from
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/811416-REG/KRK_RP10_3_ROKIT_Powered_10_3_140W.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/922786-REG/m_audio_m3eightx110_m3_8_3_way_amplified.html
which are unbelievably low for a 3 way - which make me wonder about the compromises they had to make to reach this price point

are there any other websites other than B&H to locate some of these pro-sumer grade items?
grnsr is offline  
post #117 of 121 Old 07-29-2013, 05:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ifor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: La Quinta, CA
Posts: 2,444
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 47
zzounds, guitarcenter, musiciansfriend.

Ask yourself this, do any of these manufacturers make a quasi center speaker? Or can you use a standing or bookshelf center?
ifor is offline  
post #118 of 121 Old 07-30-2013, 05:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ifor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: La Quinta, CA
Posts: 2,444
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Also look at the Neumann KH120a speakers
ifor is offline  
post #119 of 121 Old 07-30-2013, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Folks,

Finally managed to get time for some demos and here are my impressions...

First, the caveat: I like the "good stuff" in cars, gadgetry, food and wine...but every time I describe any of the "good stuff" - "good stuff or not good" is all I can think to say...

For eg: in wine "I like red wines that are dry" and when I taste'em its either a simple - its good, not bad or bad - I can't imagine how oenophiles come up with words and descriptions that need a separate code-book to decipher...and so I begin with an apology for the lack of precision or nuance... and the plain language below may be insufficient for the many experts here...

Enter the Passives world (just to get a feel before going over to the Actives dimension):

1. Yamaha passive 5.1 setup - not even sure which model - as it didn't and still doesn't matter - they came across as a little too bright and once you've started looking at speakers in the active/pro-audio monitors world - most passives look like toys packaged for kids... lot of gloss and flash but not enough class
2. Boston Acoustics 5.1 setup - again not even sure which model - just a glossy box with some decent sound coming out of it...but a lot better than the Yamahas
3. Tried the B&W CM and 600 series - sounded way better than the Bostons - but underwhelming for the hype and expectation I had built-up on them
4. GoldenEar Triton Two Towers - although the name sounds like some Chinese takeout item these are awesome looking speakers and quite a conversation piece... they remind me of those triangular foot print towers in Manhattan at the intersections of Broadway and some of the Avenues (a building near where I used to work at on 23rd, Fifth Ave and Broadway comes to mind) ... and they do sound as good as they look with fine imaging, perfect for music or HT. If you are into good looking passives and a thick wallet these are worth a listen and can be compared to the best in the passives world...

well this dealer had some "electro static" or some such speakers that looked like the monolith in the 2001 Space Odyssey - didn't have time to try them out as he had it in the same room as the B&W 800Ds and he had to switch them out for me to try...

5. B&W 800Ds - I was a bit irritated to hear the dealer say I should have given him 30mins lead time (to warm-up the valves etc - WTF!?!) before showing-up unannounced for a demo... and he wasn't that keen on demoing it either - he kept asking "what are you really looking for" - I said I'm considering the 600s but would just like to try these out.. he said "No pl. don't try the 800Ds because if you are looking at 600s (a $2000 product)...and then try the 800Ds ($20000 product) you will never like any other speakers"... he actually WAS serious and didn't want to let me try or may be he didn't want to go through the trouble of warming it up etc for someone who was in the 600 range and couldn't possibly buy the 800 range... and after I showed some displeasure at having come that far to try the 800Diamonds - he relented and let me try it...

well despite his attitude - I was not disappointed with the speakers - these are truly one of the best speakers in the world, perfect imaging and may be a little softened and refined but still very good fidelity - pretty wide sweet spot - practically an area as wide as 15' x 5' - and very strong in the entire spectrum and good solid low range... if you had the money to sink you couldn't go wrong with these...these would give you immense pleasure, bragging rights and 2 rotund-dwarf-no-neck-fat-boys to stare at all day...


the Actives and the after party is where the fun is at:

1. Event - the dealer had Opals in a box but none for demo.. so I had to be content trying the 20/20bas - sounded pretty good...better than the B&W 600s nice lows and highs... will I get them? nah... may be if I had tried the Opals and if it had impressed me - I might have considered the 20/20bas as a halo effect...
2. The Genelecs: it was the 8260 along with the subwoofer 7060 which I would say was quite equal to the 800Diamonds. Remember the 800Diamonds were playing with the sub-woofer off - whereas the Genelec setup was all routed through the subwoofer and so I really couldn't get a feel for the speakers without the subs... so its a 3 way 800D whereas 8260+7060 was a 4 way...

Played a song I'm quite used to in both "Eagles - Hotel California"
In general though the 800Ds sounded just a shade softer to listen to than the 8260...which seemed to be more edgy and precise at reproducing exactly what was on the file/cd being played warts and all...may just be the tuning and calibration (as the Genelec was brought-in just then may not have been thoroughly calibrated) and the sweet spot was quitesmall about a 5' x 3' (this was one of the major differences as compared to the B&W 800Ds) - which means their signature Directivity Controls work as intended but I can't decide if a wider sweet spot is more desirable...

since people who are looking for speakers in this range don't care much about the price... I'd say either could work for you - depending on what you value... the Genelec's "function before form" looks that grows on you over time, a more controlled sweet spot and precise response and the fact that they have many of the world's recording studios (from what the dealer showed me it appeared to be a lot more than B&W), famous musicians and composers who use it as their reference monitor...
or the flash, pizzazz and softer delivery of B&W 800Ds... so its more of a style preference...but B&Ws cons include the price, the snootyness of the brand/dealers and sillyness of the long warm-up time and the slight variations in performance over a few hours due to the heating up of the cross-over units...

Net - net - Your choices define who you are and how you see yourself and what you value in life/things... I think the only analogy I can make is a BMW M3 (the Genelec 8260) vs a Benz SL AMG (the B&W 800D)... and I'm clearly on the side of the M3.

If it was this close comparing the highest-end of B&W with one of the mid-level Genelecs - I can't imagine what the really higher-end Genelecs could do... therefore I wouldn't consider any of the B&Ws if I had to get anything lower than 803D or 804Ds but at that price point I get Genelecs that punch in a much higher category

That settles the matter of Genelec vs B&W...

Now to things that are more relevant to me - I got to try the 8050 and 8040 - which sounded quite comparable to the B&W 800Ds... (but at a much lower price point)...
The 8040 had a slightly less SPL and lower clipping point than the 8050...
The Genelec dealer was quite friendly and patient with all my questions. He showed me some of the pics he took at the Genelec factory when he was trained, some pics with famous musicians, composers, sportsmen and actors along with their Genelecs. We youtubed some informational videos on Genelecs and the TEA awards won. He talked about how he got into the "speaker trade" since he was young and after trying most every brand there was and finally landed exclusively on Genelecs ... He has even invited me to come to demo his Genelec setup at his home... He seemed really passionate about the brand (and so did the B&W fellow but he was selling many other brands too) but far more down-to-earth. He did brag that B&W, Focal, ADAM, Dynaudio, Neumann etc aren't near as good as Genelec and the other brands like Mackie, Behringer, KRK etc aren't even in the same league - and those in the "audio" know generally go for Genelec and invariably scoff at other products. However, among many other valid points he did make 1 that stood-out - the broad range of deployment of Genelec products and how even their mid-range competes with the top of these other brands and the top range of Genelecs are in a different league altogether...shows that they have considerable "head-room" in the product offering aspects. I'm not sure how some other highly regarded "super premium" brands such as ATC and PMC compare to Genelec... but they sure don't have a product in my price range... that can beat B&W, Focal, ADAM, Dynaudio, Neumann etc...

All in all a very pleasant experience but beyond a point I do not (not yet or never will) have the ability to hear or clearly describe the subtle differences between the really good, excellent and out-of this world... and the differences are barely noticeable and depend on many configurable/controllable/uncontrollable and unknown factors...so I'd have to make a decision based on expert reviews, performance charts and a good bit of my heart/gut feel than relying solely on my ears...

The Genelec dealer has recommended the following setup for my aptmt and budget:
1. 8040 for L/R, 8030 for C and Surrounds and 7060 for subs
2. 8030 for L/C/R, 8020 for Surrounds and 7060 for subs

However... I still have to demo the ADAM, Dynaudio, Neumann, Focal, Mackie... I'm hoping the ADAM comes close - the others seem further away in performance, product range "head-room" and perceived value... but in my unabashedly layman's opinion - they will all have to surpass the Genelec.
l0nestar8 likes this.
grnsr is offline  
post #120 of 121 Old 08-01-2013, 01:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
If I can ask for a vote from the forum - pl. enter your vote for the following options:

1. Genelec - G4 (LCR), G3 (SL/SR)
2. Genelec - G4 (LR), G3 (C/SL/SR)
3. Genelec - G3 (LCR/SL/SR)
4. Focal - CMS65 (LCR), CMS50 (SL/SR)
5. Focal - CMS65 (LR), CMS50 (C/SL/SR)
6. Focal - CMS50 (LCR/SL/SR)
7. Adam - A7X (LR), A77X (C), A5X (SL/SR)
8. Sub suggestions for the above (will 5.1 bass management be required?)

Apart from Genelec, the benchmark for professional grade studio monitors - I still have to locate the dealers to demo the other serious contenders ADAM and Focal - which seem to have good enough studio cred.

Thanks in advance for all the responses, suggestions and votes.
grnsr is offline  
Reply Speakers

Tags
Marantz Sr8002 Surround Receiver , Hsu Vtf 15h Subwoofer , Boston Acoustics A 360 Dual 6 5 Inch Woofer Three Way Floor Standing Speaker Each Gloss Black , Psb Speakers Image T5 Tower , Psb Image T6 Tower Floorstanding Speaker , Kef Q500wa Floor Standing Speaker , Canton Chrono 507 2 Standing Speaker , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver
Gear in this thread - Q500wa by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off