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post #1 of 60 Old 07-08-2013, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys so I have been looking around for speakers for quite some time, never really got serious about it until recently. About to pull the trigger finally within the next month. Just wanted to get some advice, I've done a bunch of browsing on the forums and I think I've decided on the BIC Acoustech PL89II system. I can get the set for $879 without a sub and I'm planning on adding a Klipsch RW12D for around $280. Overall budget for the speakers is around $1200. Will be running these with a Denon AVR, probably an X2000. Room is 13'x13' and carpeted.

Looking to get advice if my system is good, if I'm getting the best bang for my buck, and if there are any other options I should be considering. I'm moving up from a HTIB so anything really will be an upgrade, just want something that will kick hard for music and will be good for movies as I will use it equally for both.
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post #2 of 60 Old 07-08-2013, 01:24 PM
 
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I highly recommend the Hsu Hybrid-1 5.1 Package.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/hybrid1pkg.html
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post #3 of 60 Old 07-08-2013, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete the Greek View Post

Hey guys so I have been looking around for speakers for quite some time, never really got serious about it until recently. About to pull the trigger finally within the next month. Just wanted to get some advice, I've done a bunch of browsing on the forums and I think I've decided on the BIC Acoustech PL89II system. I can get the set for $879 without a sub and I'm planning on adding a Klipsch RW12D for around $280. Overall budget for the speakers is around $1200. Will be running these with a Denon AVR, probably an X2000. Room is 13'x13' and carpeted.

Looking to get advice if my system is good, if I'm getting the best bang for my buck, and if there are any other options I should be considering. I'm moving up from a HTIB so anything really will be an upgrade, just want something that will kick hard for music and will be good for movies as I will use it equally for both.

Those towers look like major overkill for a room that small.

I would look for some good bookshelf speakers for that space and spend more on a sub.

And spending less on the AVR and more toward the speakers and sub might also make some sense.

Like I said, that is a pretty small room, you don't need huge speakers or a huge receiver.
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post #4 of 60 Old 07-08-2013, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bladerunner6 View Post

Those towers look like major overkill for a room that small.

I would look for some good bookshelf speakers for that space and spend more on a sub.

And spending less on the AVR and more toward the speakers and sub might also make some sense.

Like I said, that is a pretty small room, you don't need huge speakers or a huge receiver.

So like the Hsu the guy above me recommended? Do you recommend anything in particular?
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post #5 of 60 Old 07-08-2013, 06:38 PM
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Horns of anytype might be overkill for that sized room. Btw, hsu speakers aren't true horns, they are metal dome with a horn guide...

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #6 of 60 Old 07-08-2013, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I don't want to revert back to a little HTIB, then I'd be back where I started.. Would it be advantageous to run a 2.1 or 3.1 system? Since the space is smaller maybe I wont even have a real advantage at running the full surround system.
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post #7 of 60 Old 07-08-2013, 06:51 PM
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Look at EMPtek speaker...a really great speaker for the price!
Another great option would be the def tech sm450s...which can be had for 220-280/pr from new egg about once a month. A real good speaker at that price! You could run three across the front!
Last, the infinity primus p163 bookshelves are often on sale for around 110/ pr...

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #8 of 60 Old 07-08-2013, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete the Greek View Post

Well I don't want to revert back to a little HTIB, then I'd be back where I started.. Would it be advantageous to run a 2.1 or 3.1 system? Since the space is smaller maybe I wont even have a real advantage at running the full surround system.

HSU is not a HTIB, far from it.

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JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
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post #9 of 60 Old 07-08-2013, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete the Greek View Post

Well I don't want to revert back to a little HTIB, then I'd be back where I started.. Would it be advantageous to run a 2.1 or 3.1 system? Since the space is smaller maybe I wont even have a real advantage at running the full surround system.

I run 5 NHT Super Zeros in a room just a little larger 13x14x9 and have no problem with volume for movies. This off a 50 watt/channel HK AVR. I do need more (power and speaker) for some types of music (RATM, Clutch etc..)

The HSU are well regarded. Klipsch bookshelf speakers (if you like their sound) would be really nice for movies. Maybe the new Polk TSX series or Monitors from NewEgg.

As for the AVR buy the one that has the features you want. Don't skimp on it, it will only lead to frustration. That said you could save a little by going with the X1000 since your room wouldn't really benefit from 7.1.

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post #10 of 60 Old 07-08-2013, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

Look at EMPtek speaker...a really great speaker for the price!
Another great option would be the def tech sm450s...which can be had for 220-280/pr from new egg about once a month. A real good speaker at that price! You could run three across the front!
Last, the infinity primus p163 bookshelves are often on sale for around 110/ pr...
For the EMPtek are you referring to the E55Ti towers or the E5Bi bookshelf
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HSU is not a HTIB, far from it.

Sorry, I wasn't referring to the Hsu's when I made that comment but it sounded like the other poster was looking away from everything that had been suggested thus far and I thought he was implying I go with a HTIB
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post #11 of 60 Old 07-08-2013, 07:11 PM
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... I'm planning on adding a Klipsch RW12D for around $280. Overall budget for the speakers is around $1200. Will be running these with a Denon AVR, probably an X2000. Room is 13'x13' and carpeted.
You can get three Ascend CMT-340s across the front, and a pair of CBM-170s for surround duty, for $998 + $98 shipping = $1,096. Add the RW-12d for $280 and your total is $1,376.

But your room isn't that large, so you could realistically go with five CBM-170s for $688 + $84 shipping = $772. This leaves enough room in your budget for a well-rated Rythmik LV12R for $598, shipped. Total is $1,370.

(And I believe Ascend - which also sells the Rythmik - may offer a better price if you package the sub with the speakers.)

Just a thought. And my apologies in advance should Brian decide to start spamming this thread, too. wink.gif
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post #12 of 60 Old 07-08-2013, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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So many choices frown.gif and I thought I had it all figured out...
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post #13 of 60 Old 07-08-2013, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

You can get three Ascend CMT-340s across the front, and a pair of CBM-170s for surround duty, for $998 + $98 shipping = $1,096. Add the RW-12d for $280 and your total is $1,376.

But your room isn't that large, so you could realistically go with five CBM-170s for $688 + $84 shipping = $772. This leaves enough room in your budget for a well-rated Rythmik LV12R for $598, shipped. Total is $1,370.

(And I believe Ascend - which also sells the Rythmik - may offer a better price if you package the sub with the speakers.)

Just a thought. And my apologies in advance should Brian decide to start spamming this thread, too. wink.gif

I'm actually starting to like those Ascends. How is the quality on them? A few quick searches shows that people generally love them.

Thinking of starting off with L/C/R then seeing if I need the additional surrounds. Also, I think I'm going to lower my receiver to an X1000 vs the X2000 I had originally planned on.

Stands are damn expensive though ugh...

One more thing: I know many people mentioned that the BIC Acoustechs were overkill for a small room, but am I getting less speaker with the Ascend 340s? Even if it's overkill now, I'd rather have more speaker for my money because I'll be building a larger HT within the next few years and it would be easier to use existing speakers in a larger room.
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post #14 of 60 Old 07-08-2013, 08:38 PM
 
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Going 340SE for 13 x 13 room is NOT a overkill. I am in a 13 x 14.5 room and 3 x CBM170SE couldnt do it as far as soundstage goes. And soundstage is important in home theatre when watching movies.

I persoinally like the horn tweeters for home theatre because its a bit forward than the soft dome tweeters.


Both BIC (the speakers you prefer in OP ) and the Hsu use horn loaded tweeters (but with Hsu's direct controlled so there is ZERO harshness). Again, I recommend the Hsu Hybrid package because clearly you are getting atleast a VTF2-MK4 for the price you will pay for Klipsch RW12d.

And I seriously doubt the BIC towers will sound any better than the Hsu HB1's when looking at engineering skills by both company's engineers. (Judging based on subs both companies put out)
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post #15 of 60 Old 07-08-2013, 08:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete the Greek View Post

I'm actually starting to like those Ascends. How is the quality on them? A few quick searches shows that people generally love them.

Thinking of starting off with L/C/R then seeing if I need the additional surrounds. Also, I think I'm going to lower my receiver to an X1000 vs the X2000 I had originally planned on.

Stands are damn expensive though ugh...

One more thing: I know many people mentioned that the BIC Acoustechs were overkill for a small room, but am I getting less speaker with the Ascend 340s? Even if it's overkill now, I'd rather have more speaker for my money because I'll be building a larger HT within the next few years and it would be easier to use existing speakers in a larger room.


They are detailed and flat. (I had them) Laid back speakers. Finish and aesthetics on the 170SE are big boxes pretty much. They look like a MDF black box. Nothing your girlfriend or wife or your friends would be impressed with.

If you are gonna go back with lauid back speakers that go for detail and flat response, I'd recommend the B&W. They sound silky smooth and detailed and laid back. Great imaging as well. And they look pretty nice too.
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post #16 of 60 Old 07-08-2013, 09:03 PM
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^^^^^ consider the source and take it with a grain of salt....hardly
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post #17 of 60 Old 07-08-2013, 09:22 PM
 
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Horn Tweeters.

Enjoy.




http://forums.soundandvisionmag.com/showthread.php?43995-Why-Horn-Loudspeakers

I posted this summary of the benefits of horn loudspekers on another forum. I thought that it might be interesting to also post it here as a topic of discussion:

Horns used to be the only way to get any sound out of the feeble power amplifiers available in the 1920''''s. They were used in large spaces like movie theaters to make a few watts of power fill an auditorium. And, of course, they were used on acoustic phonographs to get any sound at all!

Is there an advantage in using them now? Well, let''''s see.

They are still used in movie theaters, stadiums, concert halls and any other place where the sound has to be very loud, and fill a large space. One of their chief advantages is that because of their sensitivity and efficiency, they can easily take the wide dynamic range of motion picture soundtracks, live music, etc. If you tried to push any all-direct radiator speaker to the sound presure levels encountered in filling a movie theater, it would self-distruct in no time. Also, horns can be made to any directional characteristic needed. They can be made to fill a very specific area of an auditorium, with no sound wasted from being directed where it''''s not needed.

None of the above advantages have anything per se to do with home theater, or sound quality in general. In fact, the above systems sound pretty darn bad by hi-fidelity standards!

Now, Paul Klipsch of Klipsch Loudspeaker fame recognized the advantages of horns for home use in the late 1940''''s and created the Klipschorn. He championed one unique advantage to horns that does have a direct bearing on sound quality. That is low doppler distortion, in addition to low amounts of harmonic distortion. Simply put, doppler distortion arises whenever the source of sound moves, relative to a fixed point (the listener in this instance). What is moving? Picture the cone of a 15" speaker moving back and forth by 1/2" as it reproduces a 30Hz tone at a loud volume. Now superimpose another tone of 1000Hz on top of that 30Hz tone. The speaker cone is now moving that 1000Hz tone nearer and farther from you at a rate of 30Hz! The effect is exactly as that of a car passing you by while honking it''''s horn. In that speaker, it will make the 1000Hz tone sound like it''''s ''''underwater'''', or ''''gurgly''''. You are literally frequency modulating that 1000Hz tone, and creating distortion sidebands in the process.

Paul Klipsch reasoned that since a horn is very efficient, it''''s moving parts (the diaphram of the horn) needed to move very small distances in order to create healthy sound pressure levels. Because of this, his horn speakers produced dramatically reduced levels of doppler distortion (and also lower levels of harmonic distortion, for the same reason). They sounded cleaner than what was available at the time.

This is still true today, and is one of the chief advantages of horn speakers.

Of course, speaker technology has marched forward since that time, and today''''s speakers are much better than they were in 1950. BUT - take any speaker system today with direct radiators and play a loud continous bass tone that the speaker can reproduce, and add another pure tone that will be reproduced by that same driver (that has not been crossed over to the mid-range speaker by the crossover network), and you will hear doppler distortion if the level is increased enough.

Does this still matter today? People who make horn speakers (like Klipsch) think so.

When hi-fidelity meant only two speakers and music only, all this was somewhat a non issue to all but a few crazies like myself. Now, with the advent of home theater, with it''''s requirement to reproduce all manner of explosions, gunfire and other acts of violence, maybe it does matter. There''''s no denying that horns reproduce movie soundtracks with more ''''punch'''' than direct radiators do. Those of you who have Klipsch speakers probably purchased them because they sounded good with movies. But does this make horns better?

That is a personal question. Any good speaker can sound wonderful. Speaker manufacturing technology has evolved tremendously, and today''''s consumer speakers sound WAY better than they did 20 years ago. But here are a couple points:

As discussed above, horns reduce forms of distortion like doppler, and also harmonic and intermodulation distortion because the moving parts have to move so little to create high sound pressure levels.

Because horns can have a very well defined directional pattern, they are very adaptable to the principles espoused by certification entities like THX. It is much harder to control directivity with direct radiators. The sound can be controlled and kept off walls, floors and ceilings to a greater extent before it reaches the listener. This has become important in home theater.

With a all-horn system, it is possible by nature of the length of a horn to achieve precise time alignment between the low and high frequency drivers by simply moving them in relation to each other, forward and back. Moving their relative position while looking at the reproduction of a square wave is a good way to achieve precise time alignment. This is not possible with direct radiator speakers, when the drivers are all mounted on one flat baffle. This limitation can be overcome however by slanting the baffle, or having stepped mounting surfaces for each driver.

Then, there is the characteristic ''''horn sound''''. This can be absolutely wonderful and ''''alive'''' sounding if the horn system is executed well. Horns can also have a unique way of imaging the soundstage. They can image well behind the speakers (in stereo) as most conventional designs can, but they also have the ability to image the performers well into the room and all around you, way beyond the confines of the speakers. I''''ve yet to hear a non-horn system that can do that as effectively.

Horns are unfortunately not executed well a good deal of the time, and the resulting horns sound simply "honky". Horn systems such as these, and horns used for PA applications have given them a bad reputation for some people.

As horn coverage is widened to encompass more of the audio spectrum, it becomes increasingly important to use tube amplification. This is because of the uniquely wide "class ''''A'''' window" these tube amplifiers afford.

Horns are used mainly for tweeters in consumer systems today. It is very expensive to make a horn. In fact, most all horns today do not make use of a very important component that complements the horn: THE COMPRESSION DRIVER. Most horns today could be more accurately described as horn-loaded tweeters. They use a conventional speaker driver with a horn in front of it. A compression driver has a diaphram that fires through a ''''donut'''' shaped magnetic structure. But before it reaches the throat of the driver, the sound passes through a ''''phasing plug'''' which corrects the phase of the signals that enter the throat from the various parts of the diaphram. Thus there is no phase cancellation from say , the sound coming from the edge of the diaphram and that coming from the center. The problem with compression drivers is that they are extremely expensive to make. They require machining of precision parts, and this makes them cost prohibitive for consumer use.

The makers of today''''s horn speakers have done an excellent job of working around some problems arising from the lack of a true compression driver. Some of the phase problems resulting from direct loading of a conventional driver remain, however.

As home theater has come into being, there has been a gradual shift upwards in the sensitivity of speakers. This is probably for two reasons. More sensitive speakers (especially horns) are more able to take the abuse of sound effects that exist in modern motion picture soundtracks. This is simply because the speaker elements do not have to move as much to generate a particular sound pressure level. Thus less likelyhood of damage to the drivers. Another reason is that higher sensitivity speakers makes it possible to lower the power requirements of the power amps that power them. This was not much of an issue when amplifiers only had two channels, but gets to be a very big issue when as much as seven channels are put into a single amplifier chassis. 7 times 1000 watts? Get ''''outta town!!


Should you consider a horn system? Well, that is a question only you can answer. Shop around and give the various horn designs a listen. There are only a couple firms that market all horn speaker systems currently, most systems having horn tweeters. Therefore, for better or worse, your selection, and therefore how crazy you can get with it, is somewhat limited. That is, unless you go with professional speakers....





Now, the NEW and improved HORN loaded tweeters talked about in the article are the DIRECT CONTROLLED Horn loaded tweeters, in which the Hsu put out the harshness is completely gone.


Its no question really that horn loaded tweeters are the way to go for home theatre.



Peace!
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post #18 of 60 Old 07-08-2013, 10:22 PM
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^^^^^ consider the source and take it with a grain of salt....hardly
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^, however, the HSU seem to be very good speakers, so it's just a coincidence that Brian is saying that a good speaker sounds good. It could have gone either way. tongue.gif

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post #19 of 60 Old 07-09-2013, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete the Greek View Post

So like the Hsu the guy above me recommended? Do you recommend anything in particular?

I like the Primus series from Infinity. Going with come P163's and a PC351 center would save give you more money to spend on a sub.

Some people have mentioned Ascend Acoustics, they seem to receive a lot of love on this site.

Some people like Cambridge Audio:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_779S30N/Cambridge-Audio-S30-Noir.html

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_779S50N/Cambridge-Audio-S50.html?showAll=N&search=cambridge_center&skipvs=T

My main point is towers are overkill for that room. Save some money with some bookshelf and get a better sub.
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post #20 of 60 Old 07-09-2013, 04:20 AM
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I think the HSU might be a bit overpowering in such a small space. They also are more forward than a typical soft dome tweeter and to some people this is perceived as harsh and even fatiguing to the ears. The Ascend recommendation is a good one, and I would definitely consider allocating less of your budget to the receiver, and more to the sub.

Another great choice is Home Theater Direct (HTD). They are very well reviewed, there is a good one on audioholics. You could get 2 pairs of HTD Level 3 bookshelves and a Level 3 center for $800. Pair that with say an SVS PB-1000 and you would have a great system. They also come in a very nice looking dark cherry.

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post #21 of 60 Old 07-09-2013, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete the Greek 
I'm actually starting to like those Ascends. How is the quality on them? A few quick searches shows that people generally love them.
From what I've read, Ascend makes well-designed, well-built and well-rated speakers.
Quote:
Thinking of starting off with L/C/R then seeing if I need the additional surrounds. ... Stands are damn expensive though ugh...
Good idea to start off with L/C/R, rather than try to squeeze everything into a limited budget. If the stands are too much right away, pick up some inexpensive wood speaker stands as an interim solution. You should be able to get a pair off a local used-goods site or off eBay for fairly cheap (i.e., ~$30).
Quote:
One more thing: I know many people mentioned that the BIC Acoustechs were overkill for a small room, but am I getting less speaker with the Ascend 340s? Even if it's overkill now, I'd rather have more speaker for my money because I'll be building a larger HT within the next few years and it would be easier to use existing speakers in a larger room.
Since you plan on using a sub, and unless you intend on listening to music using only your mains, there's no advantage to having towers up front. So what counts is how the speakers perform above the crossover (say, ~80Hz) and, in that respect, I don't think the Ascends - which reportedly sound good and can play loud cleanly - are "less speaker" than the BICs.
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post #22 of 60 Old 07-09-2013, 05:24 AM
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I have heard the Ascends extensively and they are NOT FLAT, IMHO! Very accurate, detailed and dynamic speaker. They will get loud, but most impressive, they will pay clear at low volumes. NOT EVERYONE is listening to movies at reference levels and if you are like me, you want a speaker that can be dynamic even when played well below reference levels. Disclaimer, the Ascends I have heard are the CMT340 and only the 340s!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #23 of 60 Old 07-09-2013, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian323 View Post

Going 340SE for 13 x 13 room is NOT a overkill. I am in a 13 x 14.5 room and 3 x CBM170SE couldnt do it as far as soundstage goes. And soundstage is important in home theatre when watching movies.

As has been previously pointed out, your speakers are very poorly placed to support good soundstage and proper imaging. You got lucky that the HSUs worked in your room.

Pete: One thing about the Ascends. You could order the CBM-170 SEs for front left/right, and the CMT-340 SE center. If you feel like you need more speaker, then get another pair of CMT-340 SEs. Otherwise, get another pair of CBM-170 SEs. Most likely Ascend would allow you to "demo" your front three and then order the other pair for their full system discount (call them and ask).

Here's an AVS member review of the Ascends in case you are interested: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1478626/ascend-acoustic-5-1-setup-review

Meanwhile, the BIC Acoustech PL-89II you are looking at are considered a good value for people that have very large rooms and need higher sensitivity speakers to fill them (although BICs sensitivity rating is likely exaggerated a little) and or people that just want to run their speakers REALLY loud. HSU or Ascend Acoustic speakers would likely give you better sound quality and would be more than sufficient in your size room.

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post #24 of 60 Old 07-09-2013, 08:40 AM
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Pete, another option you could look into is BIC America Formula series speakers. You could do any combo with the FH-65B or the FH6-LCR. Like 5 FH-6 LCRs, or 3 FH6-LCRs and 2 FH-65Bs, or 4 FH-65Bs and 1 FH6-LCR. Then that would also allow you enough money to get a good sub such as Rythmik LV12R, or Hsu VTF2-MK4, or Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus, or SVS PB1000.

BTW I have the PL-89 7.0 speaker set with 2 LFM-1 Plus's. For the price they are great speakers. I love the way they sound especially for movies.

Shawn
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post #25 of 60 Old 07-09-2013, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete the Greek View Post

Hey guys so I have been looking around for speakers for quite some time, never really got serious about it until recently. About to pull the trigger finally within the next month. Just wanted to get some advice, I've done a bunch of browsing on the forums and I think I've decided on the BIC Acoustech PL89II system. I can get the set for $879 without a sub and I'm planning on adding a Klipsch RW12D for around $280. Overall budget for the speakers is around $1200. Will be running these with a Denon AVR, probably an X2000. Room is 13'x13' and carpeted.

Looking to get advice if my system is good, if I'm getting the best bang for my buck, and if there are any other options I should be considering. I'm moving up from a HTIB so anything really will be an upgrade, just want something that will kick hard for music and will be good for movies as I will use it equally for both.

Here's my recommendation:

Speakers - Pioneer Andrew Jones set – the SP-PK52FS (minus the included 8" sub)


So, entry-level home theater - more so than any other price point - really has to be about bang for the buck. Every component in your system has to be selected for maximum impact towards the end result. So, with that said, for the speakers, hardly any introduced over the past two years have garnered as much industry and enthusiast praise as the Pioneer Andrew Jones set – the SP-PK52FS. Known best for designing premium TAD speakers where price is no object, Andrew Jones turned his design eye towards the budget end of the spectrum. This incredibly neutral and balanced system is the result. Forget about the Klipsch sub you're considering, and pair it with the Hsu VTF-1 Mk 2 sub and you'll have all this for $899!! It will destroy systems costing 2 and 3 times as much.

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post #26 of 60 Old 07-09-2013, 04:33 PM
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Speakers - Pioneer Andrew Jones set – the SP-PK52FS (minus the included 8" sub) ... Pair it with the RW12D you mentioned and you'll have all this for $829!! It will destroy systems costing 2 and 3 times as much.
Three Ascend CMT-340s, two CBM-170s and a Rythmik LV12R amount to roughly "2 times as much" as the Pioneers + RW-12d. Will the latter system really "destroy" the former? Impressive.
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post #27 of 60 Old 07-09-2013, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

I have heard the Ascends extensively and they are NOT FLAT, IMHO!

Interesting statement. The CBM-170's are some of the flattest measured speakers at any price point:

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cbm170/cbm170meas.html

http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/ascend_cbm170/

Compare those to the full list of NRC measurements and you will be hard pressed to find better example of flat:

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=140

I'm not saying that a flat response is better or not (that's subjective).

The CMT-340's you mentioned are not far off:

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cmt340m/cmt340mmeas.html
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post #28 of 60 Old 07-09-2013, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Three Ascend CMT-340s, two CBM-170s and a Rythmik LV12R amount to roughly "2 times as much" as the Pioneers + RW-12d. Will the latter system really "destroy" the former? Impressive.

You quoted me too soon. I amended the rec to substitute the Klipsch sub with a VTF-1 Mk 2 sub. Makes the total 899! And yes, it still destroys the Ascend/Rythmik recommendation.

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post #29 of 60 Old 07-09-2013, 04:57 PM
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Pioneer + Klipsch can be had for about $700+ without much wait and not $800+; The Ascend package runs about $1,700+ so technically that's more than twice the price, so...... smile.gif Your point is taken though.

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post #30 of 60 Old 07-09-2013, 04:57 PM
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You quoted me too soon. I amended the rec to substitute the Klipsch sub with a VTF-1 Mk 2 sub. Makes the total 899! And yes, it still destroys the Ascend/Rythmik recommendation.
OK, well, that just makes the assertion that the Pioneer + HSU combo can "destroy" the Ascend + Rythmik combo even more impressive.
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