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post #91 of 123 Old 07-15-2013, 08:03 PM
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The 250 watt amp is perfectly matched to that woofer. It's capable of getting plenty loud.
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post #92 of 123 Old 07-16-2013, 05:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok good to know.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #93 of 123 Old 07-16-2013, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Options, options options....

Thoughts?

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-7094 I could get a crossover and digital plate and aside from finishing it, 18" and 900 RMS should be plenty of volume and SPL for my liking but I wonder how it would fare w/ my Pantera and metal double bass. The inclosure is sealed so response will be improved over vented.

or

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=303-432 I could buy 3 these.
The BICs have good reviews.

More thoughts?

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #94 of 123 Old 07-16-2013, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerlifter405 View Post

Options, options options....

Thoughts?

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-7094 I could get a crossover and digital plate and aside from finishing it, 18" and 900 RMS should be plenty of volume and SPL for my liking but I wonder how it would fare w/ my Pantera and metal double bass. The inclosure is sealed so response will be improved over vented.


or

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=303-432 I could buy 3 these.
The BICs have good reviews.

More thoughts?


YES! If you are willing to get into the DIY side of things, the gains in quality and output increase disproportionally with budget, as in spending $300 might equal $600 commercially, but spending $1000 can equal $4000 commercially.

You can also get a full feature DSP pro amp, with 2 high power channels, like this

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=248-6706

That allows you to power two 4 ohm subs with substantial power, and completely EQ the response flat (or boost the low end). So yes, this puts you at a $1k sub build, but like I said, it will be like dropping $4k on some high end commercial sub.
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post #95 of 123 Old 07-16-2013, 10:53 AM
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These 15" Ultimax kits are also very good performers for a decent amount less then the 18" kit

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-7097

They only have slightly less output vs the 18", but actually have a deeper native response.
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post #96 of 123 Old 07-16-2013, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

These 15" Ultimax kits are also very good performers for a decent amount less then the 18" kit

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-7097

They only have slightly less output vs the 18", but actually have a deeper native response.

Would either one of these amps work:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-809
Specifications: • Rated power output: 497 watts into 8 ohms, 950 watts into 4 ohms with 0.92% THD (based on one-third power duty cycle) • S/N ratio: 98 dB (A-weighted) • Low-pass crossover: 30 ~ 200 Hz, 24 dB/octave • Parametric EQ: Frequency: 18 ~ 80 Hz; Bandwidth: 0.1 ~ 1 Q; Level: -14.5 dB to +6 dB • Phase Adjustment: 0° (NOR) or 180° (REV) • Input impedance: 12K ohms • Input voltage: User switchable 115V/230V (Euro cord available) • Stand-by power rating: 115V 24W; 230V 18.4W • Efficiency: 86% • Net weight: 17 lbs. • Dimensions: 11-15/16" W x 11-15/16" H x 5-1/4" D; Cutout dimensions: 10" W x 10" H.

or


http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-752
Specifications:
• 500 watts RMS @ 0.5% THD into 4 ohm load
• Signal to noise ratio: 105 dB (A-weighted)
• Dimensions: 12" W x 8" H x 3-1/2" D
• Cabinet cutout: 11" x 7"
• Line-in and high-level in crossovers: Adjustable 50 to 150 Hz, 12 dB/octave low-pass crossover, a fixed 230 Hz, 12 dB/octave low-pass crossover, and a fixed 330 Hz, 12 dB/octave low-pass crossover
• LFE-in crossover: A fixed 230 Hz, 12 dB/octave low-pass crossover, and a fixed 330 Hz, 12 dB/octave low-pass crossover

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #97 of 123 Old 07-16-2013, 02:56 PM
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The 1000 watt plate amp would be a good choice for either 15" or 18" sub. It does raise the price for 2 a good bit over using a pro amp.
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post #98 of 123 Old 07-17-2013, 04:47 AM
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Powerlifter for what its worth. I would get the Behringer iNuke 3000 DSP hell i may even opt for the 6000 if you have the money. I can tell you right now that the 1000watt amps will be pushing their limits with either of those subs if you use any sort of Low frequency boost or EQ if you use the iNukes.

I would STRONGLY recommend getting the Behringer or something similar for the EQ capabilities, your Low frequency experiance will be so much better, I really cant stress this enough. I have a 15" ultimax like the build you are looking at, you will be sorely dissapointed with it if you dont EQ it unless you have an acoustically perfect room to begin with, and even so it can benefit from EQ

With that being said, when yous tart boosting certain frequencies to help with the nulls in your room you will begin to push that amp. I am pushing the iNuke 1000DSP on my Ultimax pretty hard when I watch a movie at say -10DB.. Having the headroom will be a good idea. I really really really cant recommend getting a bigger amp and something with EQ abilities enough, I plan on building a second ultimax 15" for my room and I will be getting the 6000 seriies amp just to have that headroom.

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post #99 of 123 Old 07-17-2013, 11:09 AM
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Just be careful Shady, you dont want to use more power then the driver can handle. Boosting cuts headroom, but it still delivers all of that power to the driver in the boosted range. If for example you have a 6 db 20hz boost, and you're comfortably listening at say 112db 40hz (500 watts), when that 20hz signal hits your driver is going to get 2000 watts from the 6 db boost with an amp like the 6000.
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post #100 of 123 Old 07-17-2013, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Either of the last two ways just really starts moving things way outta my price range. I could spend the $1000 on a sub and she'd be surprised but wouldn't complain but I'd ask myself why I did.

To me it is just a stereo. It is in no way shape or form a hobby. I like movies and I love to listen to the radio but it would be like me telling someone to get a les baer custom 45 when a G21 would work just as well at 1/3 the price. Someone gets a wilson combat or LB because its a hobby and they are smooth shooting pistols. Someone gets a Glock because it is super reliable, easy to get aftermarket parts and it is a simple and affective tool.

It looks as if I went w/ a pro-amp, i'd have to tune it, adjust it, blah blah blah, way tooooooo much work for me. I want to use the fancy speaker set up function Denon has, and call it good. I like the new powered subs, Auto-on/auto-off.

I have two women i'd have to give a tutorial to, ONCE I get it figured out. It would never happen, it would be a source of arguments when something goes pop or fizz as one of them does their thing.

One thing I noticed is several of the subs I've been looking at are geared more towards HT vs audio. From what I'm reading there is a difference between the two so I'm a bit confused has how to approach the HT vs audio preference.

I can't justify the need or money to get two subs let alone a several hundred kit plus another several hundred for the amp, plus wiring and so on.

I may do a basic DA kit but I'm feeling more confused now.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #101 of 123 Old 07-17-2013, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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double post

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #102 of 123 Old 07-17-2013, 05:40 PM
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You dont have to get swept up in the sub madness biggrin.gif You can make smart, cost effective solutions, that will still knock your block off compared to store brands.

This kit features a less costly driver, which still has very good excursion/output capability, and is a straight up steal at $200 with the cabinet flat pack.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-7098

Match that up with a $500 watt plate amp, and now you have a much more cost effective way of getting a big sub into your house

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-752

Two subs is still highly recommended for a multitude of reasons, but it can be hard for the average joe to understand the benefits.
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post #103 of 123 Old 07-17-2013, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

You dont have to get swept up in the sub madness biggrin.gif You can make smart, cost effective solutions, that will still knock your block off compared to store brands.

This kit features a less costly driver, which still has very good excursion/output capability, and is a straight up steal at $200 with the cabinet flat pack.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-7098

Match that up with a $500 watt plate amp, and now you have a much more cost effective way of getting a big sub into your house

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-752

Two subs is still highly recommended for a multitude of reasons, but it can be hard for the average joe to understand the benefits.

This ave joe is ave broke eek.gif not really but like I mentioned how can I justify two subs when we are paying for two mortgages, two car payments on one 1/4 income. Her salary now is 1/4 of what it was before we moved.

She is a great woman and wouldn't complain if I wrote a check for everything right now but family needs come first.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-7097

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=301-514

I figure these two would be a slightly better combo. Your thoughts? The Bash had some iffy reviews.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #104 of 123 Old 07-17-2013, 06:02 PM
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That amp is not a good choice because the boost it features is not a good match for that woofer setup. The woofer setup is better, but you won't get much benefit over the cheaper woofer without using the 1000 watt amp.

All of the Yung amps are a bad option, they all have very high filters
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post #105 of 123 Old 07-17-2013, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post


All of the Yung amps are a bad option, they all have very high filters

Bash or DA?

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #106 of 123 Old 07-17-2013, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by powerlifter405 View Post

Bash or DA?

The SPA500 is definitely a better amp, has a bunch of useful features. Is it worth the extra $65 to you? That I cant answer. Every plate amp has a failure rate, hopefully if there is a problem it shows up right away so you can exchange it.
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post #107 of 123 Old 07-17-2013, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok simple enough.

I was looking at the flat box kit and there is no provision to cut the area for the plate amp, or so it appears. Am I seeing this right?

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #108 of 123 Old 07-17-2013, 08:01 PM
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You have to cut out a section in the back, you can cut into the back brace, it is designed that way. You will need a drill and a jig saw.
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post #109 of 123 Old 07-18-2013, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Just be careful Shady, you dont want to use more power then the driver can handle. Boosting cuts headroom, but it still delivers all of that power to the driver in the boosted range. If for example you have a 6 db 20hz boost, and you're comfortably listening at say 112db 40hz (500 watts), when that 20hz signal hits your driver is going to get 2000 watts from the 6 db boost with an amp like the 6000.


Thats why the Behringer has a cutoff function wink.gif

I get what your saying though..

Powerlifter, maybe you had said it earlier, but whats the room size this is going to be in? From the sounds of it you just want somthing that workds and really don't care to much about how accurate it is so to speak, just something that brigns thigns a bit more life..

Have you looked at the Klipsh RW-12D? It would be a great cost effective option.. I had one before I built my Own 15" ultimax, It's 300 bucks, and it gets plenty loud and its a decent sub.. Just nothing to write home about if your looking for something "accurate"
It's $349 right now but it constantly goes on sale for just undfer 300 bucks

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882780078


If I was going to do that 15" ultimax that you posted, its very simlar to my setup however I'd at minimum use this amp to power that one
http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-NU1000DSP-Ultra-Lightweight-High-Density-1000-Watt/dp/B0042Z1RME

While you say you don't care about setting it up, the option will be there one day to sit down, learn a thing or two and tinker and it will deffinately allow you to get a much better response than just using the plate amp.

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post #110 of 123 Old 07-18-2013, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Shady195 View Post

Thats why the Behringer has a cutoff function wink.gif

I get what your saying though..

Powerlifter, maybe you had said it earlier, but whats the room size this is going to be in? From the sounds of it you just want somthing that workds and really don't care to much about how accurate it is so to speak, just something that brigns thigns a bit more life..

Have you looked at the Klipsh RW-12D? It would be a great cost effective option.. I had one before I built my Own 15" ultimax, It's 300 bucks, and it gets plenty loud and its a decent sub.. Just nothing to write home about if your looking for something "accurate"
It's $349 right now but it constantly goes on sale for just undfer 300 bucks

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882780078


If I was going to do that 15" ultimax that you posted, its very simlar to my setup however I'd at minimum use this amp to power that one
http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-NU1000DSP-Ultra-Lightweight-High-Density-1000-Watt/dp/B0042Z1RME

While you say you don't care about setting it up, the option will be there one day to sit down, learn a thing or two and tinker and it will deffinately allow you to get a much better response than just using the plate amp.

Getting the Behringer would be like getting my wife a 911. She would be like, "it sits a little low, I like the truck because I can see traffic better. It is nice inside. Ok I'll drive it to work if you want but I like my Rav4."

It will never get driven to its full potential.

I have read plenty of good reviews about the PA-150. @ 349 for the RW-12D I can get the PA-150.
Also it should be remembered that most of the sound will be for music reproduction, primarlily metal and rock.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #111 of 123 Old 07-18-2013, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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I did look at http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=245-652

how is the volume controlled w/ these??

If I have my Denon 2113 does it control the amp? I'm trying to keep an open mind if I use two subs but I can't rap my head around a lot of this.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #112 of 123 Old 07-18-2013, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerlifter405 View Post

I did look at http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=245-652

how is the volume controlled w/ these??

If I have my Denon 2113 does it control the amp? I'm trying to keep an open mind if I use two subs but I can't rap my head around a lot of this.

you're looking at that..

Thats 500 watts and 100 more

but you won't look at the 1000 watt behringer for 100 bucks less?

I dont understand your logic

Anyways it doesn't matter if its ever going to be driven to its full potentional, I dreally don't even know why your having this discussion then instead of just getting a 200 dollar Bic F200 and being done with it. The fact is with the Behringer it has enough power to drive the subwoofer if you decide to actually turn up the volume.. That 500 watt amp will run out of power fast, not nearl enough to drive that subwoofer efficiently.

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post #113 of 123 Old 07-18-2013, 11:45 AM
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Actually im kind of confused why you're asking any questions then if anytime someone makes a reasonable suggestion you come back with some ridiculous analagoy on why most choose the cheaper handgun or why you wouldent buy your wife a porche.

Buy a cheap 200 dollar HTIB setup.. If you're never going to driev it hard, well then it should have no problem keeping up

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post #114 of 123 Old 07-18-2013, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady195 View Post

you're looking at that..

Thats 500 watts and 100 more

but you won't look at the 1000 watt behringer for 100 bucks less?
I did, didn't like that option initially but I tried to keep an open mind.
Quote:

I dont understand your logic
You have no obligation to post or respond smile.gif
Quote:
Anyways it doesn't matter if its ever going to be driven to its full potentional, I dreally don't even know why your having this discussion then instead of just getting a 200 dollar Bic F200 and being done with it. The fact is with the Behringer it has enough power to drive the subwoofer if you decide to actually turn up the volume.. That 500 watt amp will run out of power fast, not nearl enough to drive that subwoofer efficiently.

To me it does. WTF should I spend nearly $800 bucks or more end up w/ another piece of equipment I have to find room for or make shelving, get a rack and so on.
Then don't have the discussion w/ me or Jay or anyone else in this thread for that matter.

I did, was against it but I'm trying to validate options.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #115 of 123 Old 07-18-2013, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Shady195 View Post

Actually im kind of confused why you're asking any questions then if anytime someone makes a reasonable suggestion you come back with some ridiculous analagoy on why most choose the cheaper handgun or why you wouldent buy your wife a porche.

Buy a cheap 200 dollar HTIB setup.. If you're never going to driev it hard, well then it should have no problem keeping up

"some ridiculous analagoy "

Actually it is analogy-Similarity, likeness, comparison. If you're gonna talk smack then at least spell correctly.

And if you think my analogy is ridiculous, then leave the thread. OR its okay for shady to think it's ridiculous when I'm finding a way for me to compare price points and useage of items i'm familiar with. I'm glad you have a greater valididated opinion thus enabling you to talk down to me or my ideas. Kuddo to you, thumbs up.

I have listened to many reasonable suggestions and I have questioned many for the sake of trying to understand why.
If you cannot comprehend my comparison of a 911 or a handgun then don't bother responding. I didn't ask you too. I responded to your ideas, like I responded to others. You're not that special so don't get worked up over it.

Your complaining about my comparisions do nothing for the thread. Therefore, do me and anyone who may have something insightfull to say or a question to ask, alone, by staying out of the thread.

Good bye shady.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #116 of 123 Old 07-19-2013, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerlifter405 View Post

"some ridiculous analagoy "

Actually it is analogy-Similarity, likeness, comparison. If you're gonna talk smack then at least spell correctly.

And if you think my analogy is ridiculous, then leave the thread. OR its okay for shady to think it's ridiculous when I'm finding a way for me to compare price points and useage of items i'm familiar with. I'm glad you have a greater valididated opinion thus enabling you to talk down to me or my ideas. Kuddo to you, thumbs up.

I have listened to many reasonable suggestions and I have questioned many for the sake of trying to understand why.
If you cannot comprehend my comparison of a 911 or a handgun then don't bother responding. I didn't ask you too. I responded to your ideas, like I responded to others. You're not that special so don't get worked up over it.

Your complaining about my comparisions do nothing for the thread. Therefore, do me and anyone who may have something insightfull to say or a question to ask, alone, by staying out of the thread.

Good bye shady.

LOL

I can comprehend your analogy just fine, its the fact that many of the suggestions people have brought fourth you then turned around and asked "Why should I get that.. Thats like me telling you to go buy a Kimber instead of picking up a S&W Governer when they will both do the same thing"

It seems many of the suggestions being brought to your attention you are then trying to justify your way out of buying it, and by that logic you mine as well go spend 200 bucks on some HTIB. If its never going to be pushed and you don't really care all that much then why spend anything more than that?

I Really wasn't trying to be a complete dick. Just having a serious WTF moment as to why you even made this thread if your just coming up with some analogy as an explanation to your reasoning behind NOT wanting to buy something of higher quality.

EMP E55ti | EMP E56ci | Polk T15's for surround duty | Ultimax 15" Sub | Integra 40.2 | Rotel 976 | Panasonic 60ST60
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post #117 of 123 Old 07-20-2013, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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LOL

I can comprehend your analogy just fine, its the fact that many of the suggestions people have brought fourth you then turned around and asked "Why should I get that.. Thats like me telling you to go buy a Kimber instead of picking up a S&W Governer when they will both do the same thing"

It seems many of the suggestions being brought to your attention you are then trying to justify your way out of buying it, and by that logic you mine as well go spend 200 bucks on some HTIB. If its never going to be pushed and you don't really care all that much then why spend anything more than that?

I Really wasn't trying to be a complete dick. Just having a serious WTF moment as to why you even made this thread if your just coming up with some analogy as an explanation to your reasoning behind NOT wanting to buy something of higher quality.

I'm asking "why" because I"m uninformed to a big degree. I've read a lot of posts and I'm guessing if I spent a few grand I'd blow my doors off but I can't/dont want to afford that. So I'm trying to understand why a "good bang for my buck" is just that.

On the HTIB I know I wouldn't be happy w/ it and neither would the wife. That was why I did give us some head room.

I can understand the WTF moment, had them myself and my bad if I came off like a turd. I took the post the wrong way and I'm just so green w/ audio I want to make sure I'm making a solid purchase. I deal w/ douchebags all day at work so sometimes I get my panties in a wad w/ little prompting. Sorry.

On speakers I'm down to either the PA system or the large BIC system for speakers. I think for the $$ they should do fine and not break the bank.

On the sub, there are many ideas that had gotten thrown around and I went from almost 400 for a complete sub to a DIY spending twice that. The more I understand and comprehend the data at hand the better I feel about the final outcome. I'm a questioning mf'er, not for the sake of, "you're retarded why did you suggest that", it is "I AM retarded, why did you suggest that". Like I said, i'm fine saying I don't know diddley d$ck about speakers.

I did have the idea of wanting something nice and viable but I didn't know where to start. I had read some liked the polks and I shopped the idea but it seems the PA or BIC would be a better buy. So for that I'm glad to have gotten the input.

On some of the suggestions they really put me out of my price and comfort range. The amp you suggested, if used w/ two of the 15" or 18" speaker kits would probably be killer, in the right hands. But it sounds chicken sh$t but I just don't want to fiddle w/ another item and have to by a rack get it setup, etc, etc... But I'm not dead set against it, I'm just as confusing to myself as I am to everyone else biggrin.gif. Jay keep suggesting two subs for my room and he preferred the BIC due to their efficiency. I can only get one sub for now so I have to be content w/ that, and think about a second next summer.

FWIW, I have been very appreciative of all the input. Again, I ask tons of questions not to doubt sincerity w/ the suggestions but because I' don't understand. Please forgive my audio ignorance. redface.gif

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #119 of 123 Old 07-20-2013, 07:09 PM
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Well depending on your room size

A custom ultimax 15" With the behringer will cost you about ~600 all said and done

Will put out much better bass than getting 2 PA or BIC, Klipsch subs

However if you want something that will shake the room a bit, but may not be entirely accurate or able to really adjust/equalize

The BIC, the PA or the Klipsch would do just fine. I personally had an RW-12D.. Watfching something like cloverfield i was amazed at how much bass it put out.. it got loud in my ~1200sq ft room.. However it wasy very boomy in the 60hz range which is why it seemed so loud

Where as spending an hour with the ultimax using a mic and rew I now have a nearly flat response in my room

and as far as speakers I can only comment on the HTD Level twos having owned them, they were FANTASTIC speakers. They imaged extremely well

EMP E55ti | EMP E56ci | Polk T15's for surround duty | Ultimax 15" Sub | Integra 40.2 | Rotel 976 | Panasonic 60ST60
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post #120 of 123 Old 07-20-2013, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Well depending on your room size

A custom ultimax 15" With the behringer will cost you about ~600 all said and done

Will put out much better bass than getting 2 PA or BIC, Klipsch subs

However if you want something that will shake the room a bit, but may not be entirely accurate or able to really adjust/equalize

The BIC, the PA or the Klipsch would do just fine. I personally had an RW-12D.. Watfching something like cloverfield i was amazed at how much bass it put out.. it got loud in my ~1200sq ft room.. However it wasy very boomy in the 60hz range which is why it seemed so loud

Where as spending an hour with the ultimax using a mic and rew I now have a nearly flat response in my room

and as far as speakers I can only comment on the HTD Level twos having owned them, they were FANTASTIC speakers. They imaged extremely well

The Denon has the mic for the auto EQ but what is "rew"??

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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