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post #1 of 123 Old 07-09-2013, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Howdy everyone!

I've been lurking and learning for a while and I finally have a question I can't find a solid answer or opinion on.

After having read a sh$t ton of info on receivers here I picked out a Denon AVR-2113CI from Denon as a refurb. $400 bucks so I figure thats a good deal. I currently haven't an AV system, the ex got it 8 years ago so i'm starting from scratch. we ARE on a budget but I can't justify spending $ at best buy for subpar junk. I'm trying to find a middle ground.

I listen to a variety of music, primarily metal( slayer metallica) but with a mix of country, classical, the occasional old school hip-hop rap, some 70's rock and motown.

We are doing movies more often and we also just got our 1st flat screen. We are in the stone ages in some regard, no cable, no satellite just an antenna and internet for netflix. So we have no need for a fancy system something that will work well for our needs. I will use it 3-4x's per week for when I'm working out so it will get some solid, realistically bordering on abuse when the wife is gone.

I did look at some HK but I decided on the Denon AVR-2113CI so now I need to get some decent speakers. My hearing SUCKS, I have failed hearing tests since a kid and I have nerve deafness in both ears. Understanding the dialogue in movies is hard for me at times but w/ music I feel the lower frequencies really well and i have compensated in the past for volume vs a decent speaker.

I had it whittled down to the HTD level 2 or some polks at the ebay polk store. My hope is that these will rock the basement when I'm lifting but will perform clearly when we watch movies.

HTD choices are:
Level TWO Tower Speakers
Level TWO Black Cherry Powered Subwoofer with 10" woofer and SDA-200 digital amplifier
Level TWO Bookshelf Speakers with 5.25" FCD
Level THREE Center Speaker

This comes out to about $1,096. I choose the level 3 center thinking it would be better for dialogue purposes. I also considered the Level TWO surrounds instead of the bookshelf.

Polk choices are:
RTiA7 CHERRY Tower Loudspeaker Polk Audio
RTiA1 CHERRY bookshelf
PSW125 Subwoofer
CSiA6 Center speaker

These come out to $1,190. Here too I also considered the FXiA4 to compare w/ the HTD surround.

The price is $100 difference. Both have warranties albeit the HTD has the 30 risk free. HOWEVER, given the nearly identical cost of the two I'm wondering which would be better for my hearing, or lack there of. I did read reviews of the HTD towers and I did seem a comment concerning bass reproduction. I did look at the Level Three but there is a significant jump in price.

I do like to feel my metal when I"m working out in the basement so I am leaning towards the larger sized Polk but I'm game to ideas but I have to keep a budget.
Thanks in advanced!

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #2 of 123 Old 07-09-2013, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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OH, I forgot to mention the room is 40x20. divided in half, one portion rubber floored for the workout area and the other half is our TV area.
Thanks again!smile.gif

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #3 of 123 Old 07-10-2013, 05:56 AM
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I might consider something that is more sensitive for such a big space. Additionally, in such a big space, you would need to spend your whole budget on a sub to do that room any justice. That said, I would suggest you look at HSU speakers. They are horn-loaded and will play very loud, helpful when you want to listen to music, while still offering great dynamics for movies.

The HSU Hybrid 1 5.1 package is one option, but with such a big room the sub will be underpowered. If you like a good bit of bass, you may need to go with a 2.1 setup and get a more capable sub. A pair of HB-1 MK2 with a VTF-15H sub would sound great and fill the room nicely.

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post #4 of 123 Old 07-10-2013, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok thanks for the input.
I had read on the forums multiple times that Sub brand wasn't as important as the other channels but thanks for the idea of going larger.

Music direct has wharfedale and focal on sale. I don't know much about either but they are mentioned in the forums as good speakers.

Where would you suggest I look at the HSU for pricing and is there any other brand you'd suggest in a similar price range of approx $1500 or less.

Thanks!

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #5 of 123 Old 07-10-2013, 10:38 AM
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www.hsuresearch.com

For movie purposes, your center and sub are the two most important speakers.

You could also look at Ascend, EMP, Infinity Primus, Home Theater Direct (HTD), and Klipsch Reference.

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post #6 of 123 Old 07-10-2013, 12:00 PM
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Another 405 I see, welcome!!!

Yamaha RX-V673 | HSU HC-1 MK2 | HSU HB-1 MK2 - LR | Pioneer SP-BS22-SLR | BIC RtR-V44-2 (Presence)
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post #7 of 123 Old 07-10-2013, 12:04 PM
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Having owned the HTD LEvel two's I will vouch for them. They sounded great and their imaging was absolutely fantastic. They actually hit a lot lower than I expected to, you'd still want a sub especially for movies but for music (unless it was something very bass driven like electronic type music) I usually left them in full range.

I can't completely compare them to polks, I had A polk center, not sure which one off the top of my head.. but i can tell you the polk never sounded that great, where as dialogue with the HTD was great

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post #8 of 123 Old 07-10-2013, 04:29 PM
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I just did a review on the HTD Level TWO system, and found them to be a pretty solid bargain given their price. Even with that... unless you sit right on top of the speakers they're going to struggle trying to fill that much space. The Polks would probably do better; they're still too small, but they won't be quite as over matched..

One thing is for certain though; neither of those subwoofers is going to work at all. Even a pair would be overwhelmed by that much space. Assuming your ceilings are only 8 feet high your room is 6400 ft^3, which is huge. You're going to need at least two very large subwoofers in order to get any bass.

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post #9 of 123 Old 07-10-2013, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

I might consider something that is more sensitive for such a big space. Additionally, in such a big space, you would need to spend your whole budget on a sub to do that room any justice. That said, I would suggest you look at HSU speakers. They are horn-loaded and will play very loud, helpful when you want to listen to music, while still offering great dynamics for movies.

The HSU Hybrid 1 5.1 package is one option, but with such a big room the sub will be underpowered. If you like a good bit of bass, you may need to go with a 2.1 setup and get a more capable sub. A pair of HB-1 MK2 with a VTF-15H sub would sound great and fill the room nicely.




Ok, I really didn't think of it as filling the whole room. I guess i'm over simplifying in my mind as I only use half for the TV area but I do want music for the whole room.

I saw several of their packages and I had thought about even going 7.1 vs 5.1 for better sound w/ movies but I'm in the 1,600 price range. So two subs, good to know. Old school would be two big 10's or 12's in a tower so that makes sense.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #10 of 123 Old 07-10-2013, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

www.hsuresearch.com

For movie purposes, your center and sub are the two most important speakers.

You could also look at Ascend, EMP, Infinity Primus, Home Theater Direct (HTD), and Klipsch Reference.

I found HTD, any good closeout websites for the the others?

I remember seeing klipsch at bestbuy and they always sounded like cr@p IMHO. Maybe it was HT in a box was the reason.

How would the others fare in price?

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #11 of 123 Old 07-10-2013, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hdnewbie21 View Post

Another 405 I see, welcome!!!

Thanks! Lurking is easier.. it means I still will have money in the bank. Posting means I'm spending money eek.gif

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #12 of 123 Old 07-10-2013, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Shady195 View Post

Having owned the HTD LEvel two's I will vouch for them. They sounded great and their imaging was absolutely fantastic. They actually hit a lot lower than I expected to, you'd still want a sub especially for movies but for music (unless it was something very bass driven like electronic type music) I usually left them in full range.

I can't completely compare them to polks, I had A polk center, not sure which one off the top of my head.. but i can tell you the polk never sounded that great, where as dialogue with the HTD was great

Great to know. I have read plenty about the HTD here but they seem so limited, I worried if they'd stack up but for basic entry level I guess they'd do ok but I have little point of reference.

My old system was a HK of some sort and a pair of 3 way's. The sub was a 10" MTX and the mid and high was an old school sansui all in a sansui tower. I eventually added a set of dipole Infinity speakers and I' liked the system for what it was but it stayed when I left.

I know folks that are Polk fanatics and from a box store perspective they are supposed to be great. Thus I found their ebay site and had done some window shopping. I am glad to have been reading more on AVS as I think had I not, I would have gone w/ an older HK and the polks. Been pleased given the limited knowledge but all things being equal I think the $400 for the denon and its specs will serve me better than the HK in the same price range. PLUS w/ $1200 in Polks priced out, I'm seeing that for nearly the same or slightly higher I can find something a lot better.

I saw the wharfedale diamond series @ musicdirect and i'm at about 1600ish so I'm using that as another product to consider.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #13 of 123 Old 07-10-2013, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

I just did a review on the HTD Level TWO system, and found them to be a pretty solid bargain given their price. Even with that... unless you sit right on top of the speakers they're going to struggle trying to fill that much space. The Polks would probably do better; they're still too small, but they won't be quite as over matched..

One thing is for certain though; neither of those subwoofers is going to work at all. Even a pair would be overwhelmed by that much space. Assuming your ceilings are only 8 feet high your room is 6400 ft^3, which is huge. You're going to need at least two very large subwoofers in order to get any bass.

Hi Jim thanks for the input. Yep, the ceiling is 8ft so your 6400 is accurate I suppose. Hadn't done the math yet but that sounds good to me smile.gif

What about http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-760 or http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-766

The two 12's should produce a lot of low end but I could build 2-10" cabinets. The 10's should respond better to some Pantera double bass but should still produce a decent volume for basic needs.
I've been eyeing the DIY as well but it'd have to be a complete kit. I have no desire to solider crossovers, or to spec out individual pieces so I've been extremely hesitant to do so.

I wish this was as easy as tracking down why the egt temps and boost#'s dropped on my 6.4L. Or buzz testing a set of Split-shot A codes on my 7.3.

W/ speakers, before AVS walmart, bestbuy and CC sony, mtx, pioneer and kenwood was the extent of my speaker knowledge.eek.gif

Thanks all for the info thus far. The suggestions have been really helpful and confusing as F tongue.gif I feel so lost but I'm trying to be patient and take it all in and learn something. I'm hoping to do this right the 1st go around smile.gif

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #14 of 123 Old 07-10-2013, 07:58 PM
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Volume for movies isnt going to be that difficult, looks like you're sitting pretty close. Getting good rock out, clean and loud music performance will be a challenge though. I've got a plan for you.

Get two of these PA 150 subs for $300 ea, one in each front corner.That will give you the chest thumping bass impact, even in a room your size. You sacrifice some low end extension, but everything has to be a compromise somewhere, and that is what you have to give up to get that clean impact.

http://slickdeals.net/f/4628734-Premier-Acoustic-PA-150-1000-watt-Sub-15-for-299-delivered-AC

For an LCR get 3 of these BIC FH6's. BIC has no issues proclaiming the 116db output capability of these speakers, plenty for rocking out.

http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-FH6-LCR-6-5-Inch-Frequency/dp/B0015A8Y3E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1373507340&sr=8-2&

And then for surrounds you can go with a pair of these, or even something cheaper

http://www.amazon.com/BIC-Acoustech-PL-66-Surround-Speakers/dp/B005YE7VM2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373507814&sr=8-1&keywords=bic+surround

http://www.sounddistributors.com/buynow.asp?action=detail&prid=753&crid=291&cat_name=BIC+Acoustech+Speakers

You wont need more then 5.1, you only have one row of seating
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post #15 of 123 Old 07-10-2013, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by powerlifter405 View Post

Hi Jim thanks for the input. Yep, the ceiling is 8ft so your 6400 is accurate I suppose. Hadn't done the math yet but that sounds good to me smile.gif

What about http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-760 or http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-766

I don't see either of those options being able to overcome that room.

Subwoofers work a bit differently than speakers do. Speakers can be slightly undersized and they'll still work, by sitting close and aiming them directly at the listeners. Subwoofers, on the other hand, "see" the entire volume of space and try to pressurize it. Size them inappropriately and they will be rendered mute. While you may not necessarily want to watch TV from the other side of the room the sub(s) are still going to try and fill it I'm afraid.

Duals will be a necessity, so you should really think along those lines. Bass reflex too, because the additional output is going to come in very handy. Given your budget perhaps another option to consider would be a pair of these. Can't tell you much about them, but they should at least be able to provide pretty solid output.

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post #16 of 123 Old 07-10-2013, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Volume for movies isnt going to be that difficult, looks like you're sitting pretty close. Getting good rock out, clean and loud music performance will be a challenge though. I've got a plan for you.

Get two of these PA 150 subs for $300 ea, one in each front corner.That will give you the chest thumping bass impact, even in a room your size. You sacrifice some low end extension, but everything has to be a compromise somewhere, and that is what you have to give up to get that clean impact.

http://slickdeals.net/f/4628734-Premier-Acoustic-PA-150-1000-watt-Sub-15-for-299-delivered-AC

For an LCR get 3 of these BIC FH6's. BIC has no issues proclaiming the 116db output capability of these speakers, plenty for rocking out.

http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-FH6-LCR-6-5-Inch-Frequency/dp/B0015A8Y3E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1373507340&sr=8-2&

And then for surrounds you can go with a pair of these, or even something cheaper

http://www.amazon.com/BIC-Acoustech-PL-66-Surround-Speakers/dp/B005YE7VM2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373507814&sr=8-1&keywords=bic+surround

http://www.sounddistributors.com/buynow.asp?action=detail&prid=753&crid=291&cat_name=BIC+Acoustech+Speakers

You wont need more then 5.1, you only have one row of seating

for the L&R why would I not want to use a tower type such as http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-Venturi-Speaker-Single/dp/B00011KLOI/ref=pd_sim_e_5 or http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/core/view_BigProduct.cfm?pid=1767&sc=32
I'm honestly afraid of the smaller FH6 as the LR but not knowing for sure I'm trying to keep an open mind.

W/ the sub could I get two different brands/models to cover the low end extension?

BTW thanks for showing some options. It's nice to be able to keep some price points but move up in quality as using those items and prices is still $1100 and I'm guessing better $ spent.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #17 of 123 Old 07-10-2013, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't see either of those options being able to overcome that room.

Subwoofers work a bit differently than speakers do. Speakers can be slightly undersized and they'll still work, by sitting close and aiming them directly at the listeners. Subwoofers, on the other hand, "see" the entire volume of space and try to pressurize it. Size them inappropriately and they will be rendered mute. While you may not necessarily want to watch TV from the other side of the room the sub(s) are still going to try and fill it I'm afraid.

Duals will be a necessity, so you should really think along those lines. Bass reflex too, because the additional output is going to come in very handy. Given your budget perhaps another option to consider would be a pair of these. Can't tell you much about them, but they should at least be able to provide pretty solid output.

Ok never thought about it that way. We aren't but 10 feet or so from the TV and I'd just wall mount the LCR speakers if I got a smaller BIC that Jay mentioned. I'm stuck on towers but I'm trying to learn that the smaller LCR is ok when paired w/ a powered sub. IF, a big IF, i'm understanding speaker tech nowadays.

The PA's Jay mentioned are cheaper than my selections price wise. I'm not trying to be too cheap but I want some quality but not at spending several weeks worth of pay. I honestly couldn't justify spending 2k on a pair of towers knowing that the cats could claw it, the dogs may knock it over playing or I'll eventually break them by playing Becoming or Reign in Blood at peak volume too often.

Any other budget type subs that might work that have been tested / used by members? All the stuff i'm finding is PA150 price point or higher.

So we/I know that I have to find 2 subs. I like the specs of the PA150, big and loud and the reviews are mostly good but I'm open to keeping an eye out for options but it feels good to be whittling it down.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #18 of 123 Old 07-10-2013, 08:59 PM
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The PA 150 was also tested by databass, so its performance is known and verified. Massive output capability for the price.

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=48

If you're willing to spend just a little more you can get the tower version of that BIC LCR speaker

http://www.amazon.com/America-FT-6T-400-Watt-2-Way-Speaker/dp/B002ISZEV2/ref=pd_sim_e_3

all it gets you is more bass extension vs the LCR.
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post #19 of 123 Old 07-10-2013, 09:45 PM
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Ok never thought about it that way. We aren't but 10 feet or so from the TV and I'd just wall mount the LCR speakers if I got a smaller BIC that Jay mentioned. I'm stuck on towers but I'm trying to learn that the smaller LCR is ok when paired w/ a powered sub. IF, a big IF, i'm understanding speaker tech nowadays.

I'd still be looking long and hard at towers. They're more suited to larger areas.

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So we/I know that I have to find 2 subs. I like the specs of the PA150, big and loud and the reviews are mostly good but I'm open to keeping an eye out for options but it feels good to be whittling it down.

The PA150 doesn't extend down very low but for the price they do have good output, and most owners seemed to be pleased with the sound quality, so they probably have the edge over the Theater Solutions subs. I only suggested those because they're dirt cheap and have a 15" driver.

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post #20 of 123 Old 07-11-2013, 05:53 AM
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I think the HSU Hybrid 3 - 5.1 system would work pretty well for you. It gives you a very capable sub, and horn-loaded speakers that will play loud. It also gets you about halfway to a second HSU VTF-3 MK4, which would really solidify the bass in that room.

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post #21 of 123 Old 07-11-2013, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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I'd still be looking long and hard at towers. They're more suited to larger areas.
The PA150 doesn't extend down very low but for the price they do have good output, and most owners seemed to be pleased with the sound quality, so they probably have the edge over the Theater Solutions subs. I only suggested those because they're dirt cheap and have a 15" driver.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1364342/the-official-theater-solutions-owners-thread

So maybe I'll steer clear of the TS sub, i'd rather not risk lost time. At least the reviews on the PA are good as even the Dayton's DIY. All things being equal I'd rather spend the projected amount and get what I'm wanting VS saving some coin and being dissappointed.
I only read your first page but you returned the 12" sub so I'll pass on the TS sub.

What tower would you suggest?

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #22 of 123 Old 07-11-2013, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I think the HSU Hybrid 3 - 5.1 system would work pretty well for you. It gives you a very capable sub, and horn-loaded speakers that will play loud. It also gets you about halfway to a second HSU VTF-3 MK4, which would really solidify the bass in that room.

You use EMP and BIC.
Do you think the HSU is a better setup or is it price?

The BIC Jay mentioned would keep me at or below even going w/ two of those giant 15's.

Comparative thoughts?

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #23 of 123 Old 07-11-2013, 09:20 AM
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I think the HSU is a good choice for a large size room because of the higher sensitivity of horn-loaded speakers. Also going with bookshelves gives you more budget for a bigger sub, which you desperately need in a room that size. I can't comment on the sound between the BIC Formulas and HSU speakers, I only have a BIC sub. His recommendation of the 3 LCR BICs with PA subs would work well, I am just offering another option.

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post #24 of 123 Old 07-11-2013, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Music direct has some demo stuff.
The Wharfedale Diamond
EPOS
Focals

I see on a lot of sigs, people here are matching the LCR and sometimes using different surrounds/bookshelfs for the back two and even a different name sub.

I have concluded, a matching sub isn't necessary. So maybe I'll stay w/ the gigantor PA that Jay mentioned. At almost 80'lbs each I'll use them as coffee tables!!

But in all seriousness, I liked the pricing and look of the BIC's but would I be happier spending a tad more, getting one of the three mentioned towers and center in a LCR combo then getting some BIC or something else for the surrounds?

I might just go BIC all around to keep it simple and matched but Jim and even in a few threads towers are mentioned to work slightly better.

Whats the thought on the three mentioned above that are for sale on http://www.musicdirect.com/c-610-towers.aspx?sortfield=Price&sortdirection=ASC&perpage=24&BrandFilterID=0
They are more than I wanted to spend but If they are worth it and are almost half off, I might consider them.

Thoughts????

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #25 of 123 Old 07-11-2013, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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http://www.theaudioinsider.com/index.php?loudspeakers=original-swan-diva&cPath=21_30&osCsid=7dca8677d2656126f76f101442ad6d9d

What about Swan or ARX?

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #26 of 123 Old 07-11-2013, 09:43 AM
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Arx are very popular, the A5 towers would be a good choice, however the matching A2c center has not been released (supposedly the first half of 2013). And no you do not need to worry about matching the sub with the rest of your speakers. The front three should be timbre matched, and if you can use three identical speakers (three towers for example) it is even better.

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post #27 of 123 Old 07-11-2013, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by powerlifter405 View Post

What tower would you suggest?

The Polks you originally mentioned might not be bad, so they should probably still be under consideration. Even though matching a sub to the speakers is not necessary, Premier Acoustic also makes some inexpensive speakers. Perhaps something like the PA-6C or PA-8C for center duty, mated to either the PA-6F or PA-8F towers. For surrounds you could add the PA-6B's.

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post #28 of 123 Old 07-11-2013, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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The Polks you originally mentioned might not be bad, so they should probably still be under consideration. Even though matching a sub to the speakers is not necessary, Premier Acoustic also makes some inexpensive speakers. Perhaps something like the PA-6C or PA-8C for center duty, mated to either the PA-6F or PA-8F towers. For surrounds you could add the PA-6B's.

Why not the Pa-6S?
http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/core/view_BigProduct.cfm?pid=1209&sc=29

I see they have a 5.1 set http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/core/view_BigProduct.cfm?pid=1212&sc=27

I wonder if they have the PA15, save a little coin w/ a package deal. For the$ that package set up as made is cheaper than the Polk or HTD or the HSU I've seen.

Still a stereo Noob, Denon 2113 w/ Arx5 & A1b surrounds.
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post #29 of 123 Old 07-11-2013, 10:32 AM
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Why not the Pa-6S?
http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/core/view_BigProduct.cfm?pid=1209&sc=29

I see they have a 5.1 set http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/core/view_BigProduct.cfm?pid=1212&sc=27

I wonder if they have the PA15, save a little coin w/ a package deal. For the$ that package set up as made is cheaper than the Polk or HTD or the HSU I've seen.

They sell the PA-150 sub there, and you can usually get a price considerably lower than what is listed with the make an offer feature. Just ask them what the lowest price they can do is. Also, you could probably ask if you can bundle the PA-150 with that 5.1 system instead of the PA-120. I would wager if you are wanting to get 2 PA-150s, you can probably leverage a good deal on the lot.

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post #30 of 123 Old 07-11-2013, 11:03 AM
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Why not the Pa-6S?

No reason, other than dipole/bipole speakers are more of a challenge to place. Given the fact that your rear wall is at least 2 dozen feet from where you're sitting it could very well mitigate their true value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by powerlifter405 View Post

I see they have a 5.1 set http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/core/view_BigProduct.cfm?pid=1212&sc=27

I wonder if they have the PA15, save a little coin w/ a package deal. For the$ that package set up as made is cheaper than the Polk or HTD or the HSU I've seen.

Definitely see if you can get the 15" subs instead. You'll need them.

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