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post #1 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I just bought a new home that has a dedicated media room prewired for 7.1. The room is 12' wide and 17' long. The speakers locations are all high on the wall (aprox 10 ft high)

I received the following quote from an Media room installer company

Projector: Epson Procinema 6020 : $2,700

Screen: Dragonfly 120" grey screen with 1.1 gain and velvet border: $650


Speakers: Episode 300 series model # ES-300-IW-6

7 of these inwall speakers for $525


Subwoofer: Episode 10" 200 watt : $289


Labor: $500

Plus i have the option to have the wires rerouted to a nearby closet for an additional $220 ($100 to move the wires and $120 to have electrician add an power outlet in the closet)

Are these speakers decent? I want movie theater quality sound in my media room.
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post #2 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 09:26 AM
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You're not going to get good sound with in walls mounted 10' high period. If they are going to rewire stuff, it needs to be moving the speaker placement down to ear level. I dont know if that screen is acoustically transparent, but you should get one that is so you can have your speakers mounted behind it.







Also, you are spending $3350 on a projector and screen, but only about $800 on 5 speakers and a sub. If you want the big theater sound quality, you have to even that up a bit.

Not sure I would be dealing with this installer if they didnt point out obvious stuff like this.
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post #3 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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I had three installers tell me the inwall speakers can be directed at the seating positions and the sound will be good even at 10ft. It's a must to bring the speakers lower?
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post #4 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 10:21 AM
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Unless you're getting a baffle like this installed with your in walls, I'm a little confused as to how they are going to angle them down?

http://www.fullcompass.com/product/368395.html?utm_source=googleps&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=googleps&gclid=CMGB4JC7qrgCFSqCQgodyy0AmQ

But yes, the drivers need to be on axis with your ear.
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post #5 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are some other quotes i received for speakers

Installer #2

Jamo IW626LCR 3 way inwall speakers- 3 speakers for $749- These three will be above the screen at 10 ft

Jamo 6.5" 406f6 In wall speakers- 4 speakers for $719 -These will be located on the sides of the room and the back at 10ft

Sunfire SDS12 Subwoofer 12" 200wt: $549

################################################################################################################

Installer #3

Speakercraft AIM7 MT inwall speakers: 7 speakers for $1,225 - speakers located same as above

Sunfire Subwoofer (quote had no model etc) for $425

#############################################################################################

Installer #4

Paradigm AMS-300 8" inwall speakers: 6 of these for $2,394

Paradigm Center Speaker( quote didn't list model) for $379

#####################################################################################

Installer #1 works for a well known compaany but does his own stuff on the side. He said he's giving me equipment for cost and his install charge is much less then others.
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post #6 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Should I expect a discounted install charge since the room is prewired? Assuming they don't move the locations of the wires?
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post #7 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Unless you're getting a baffle like this installed with your in walls, I'm a little confused as to how they are going to angle them down?

http://www.fullcompass.com/product/368395.html?utm_source=googleps&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=googleps&gclid=CMGB4JC7qrgCFSqCQgodyy0AmQ

But yes, the drivers need to be on axis with your ear.

I was told the tweeter/woofer or whatever inside the speaker can be angled toward seating position. I have heard this from several installers. All have suggested inwall speakers and none suggested lowering speakers
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post #8 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 10:41 AM
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I'm guessing you dont feel comfortable setting this stuff up yourself, but it would be so much better if you just had them move the speaker wire points down to ear level, and then you purchase and set up your equipment separately...
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post #9 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I want a 120" screen and have a riser at the back of the room. Some installers said becuase of that it would be better to keep speakers where are are now (10ft)
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post #10 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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[quote name="Jay1" url="/t/1481310/home-theater-install-advice#post_23521352"]I'm guessing you dont feel comfortable setting this stuff up yourself, but it would be so much better if you just had them move the speaker wire points down to ear level, and then you purchase and set up your equipment separately...[/quote]


That would be the point of hiring a home theater install company.
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post #11 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 01:06 PM
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10 feet is very high. How high is your ceiling? How high is the riser?
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post #12 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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The riser is 11 inches.
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post #13 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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There are 7 prewired speaker locations.

3 across the front

2 on the sides

2 in the rear

The room is 12ft wide and 17ft long
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post #14 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 01:24 PM
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I wouldn't be excited over any of those speaker packages. You will have a surround sound system in the end, but it won't sound spectacular, so hopefully your expectations aren't real high. The subwoofer in particular is pretty miserable, but it'll be a great system if you hate bass. I guess I would go with the Jamos from those choices, they look like they might be the most capable.
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post #15 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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The wall below the area where the three front speakers are located is 9 ft tall.


That wall will be the screen wall...It's 9 ft tall and 12 ft 1 inch wide.


We are planning to have a 120" Dragonfly screen installed. Their website lists the dimesnions of the screen as :

65.16" x 110.9" x 1.375"


I assume that means the screen is 65.16" tall and 110.9 inches wide.
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post #16 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nflguy View Post

I just bought a new home that has a dedicated media room prewired for 7.1. The room is 12' wide and 17' long. The speakers locations are all high on the wall (aprox 10 ft high)

I received the following quote from an Media room installer company

Projector: Epson Procinema 6020 : $2,700

Screen: Dragonfly 120" grey screen with 1.1 gain and velvet border: $650


Speakers: Episode 300 series model # ES-300-IW-6

7 of these inwall speakers for $525


Subwoofer: Episode 10" 200 watt : $289


Labor: $500

Plus i have the option to have the wires rerouted to a nearby closet for an additional $220 ($100 to move the wires and $120 to have electrician add an power outlet in the closet)

Are these speakers decent? I want movie theater quality sound in my media room.


Those speakers, especially at that height will not get anywhere close to theater quality audio

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Originally Posted by nflguy View Post

I had three installers tell me the inwall speakers can be directed at the seating positions and the sound will be good even at 10ft. It's a must to bring the speakers lower?

Even if the tweeter and midrange drivers are pointed down towards the listening area, it will be extremely noticable that the speakers are way to high. It will sound like everything is coming from the ceiling, not from the screen where it should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nflguy View Post

I was told the tweeter/woofer or whatever inside the speaker can be angled toward seating position. I have heard this from several installers. All have suggested inwall speakers and none suggested lowering speakers

Having worked for a custom installer I can tell you exactly why they suggest in-wall

1) They want in-wall speakers because they can charge you more for install of in-wall than floorstaing/bookshelf speakers but because they are pre-wired it's extraordinarily easy to do.

2) In addition, even though all speakers have high mark-ups, in-wall speakers have a much higher profit margin than anything else they carry. For example, a set of typical bookshelf or tower speakers will run about a 50% profit margin. I know that speakercraft, and this is fact based on MSRP and our dealer cost, has about a 65-70% margin.
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post #17 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nflguy View Post

I was told the tweeter/woofer or whatever inside the speaker can be angled toward seating position. I have heard this from several installers. All have suggested inwall speakers and none suggested lowering speakers

think of it this way: if someone is standing above you (on a balcony or something) and they are talking to you, it is very obvious they are high above you even though their mouth is pointed towards you. you would be able to hear the speakers, but it certainly wouldn't sound right.
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post #18 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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The thing is though at our last house we didnt have a media room but we had a 5.1 sound Hardon Kardon speaker system in the family room with the center speaker sitting on the tv stand below the tv with the other 4 speakers 10 ft high in the corners of the room and the sound was really good.
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post #19 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 02:35 PM
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I think the OP has a couple options. We all agree speakers at ear height behind a screen are the best solution. It would seem easy to drop the three prewired speakers lower on the front wall and install in wall speakers behind an acoustically transplant screen. You do not even have to patch the existing holes in the angled ceiling, just paint them blue to match. If I was the OP, that is what I would do and leave the other four speakers up high, angled down.

However, I have been in a couple houses with in ceiling main speakers. It is a bit odd at first but not absolutely horrible. At least his are angled down. You kind of get used to it after awhile. Having the surrounds up high does not bother me.

A far as which in wall speakers to get, it is really hard to demo in wall speakers, for obvious reasons, so you kinda have to go by specs. I don't have time to look up the four options now, but I would look for the ones with a -3dB at below 60 Hz if possible to crossover to a sub, and also ones with higher efficiency ratings so they can get appropriately loud for movies when needed.

I would avoid any sub a custom installer wants you to buy. I get your cu feet at about 2000 (12x17x10), which is not a huge room. There are many subs that can give you great sound in a room that size. Rhythmik LV12, SVS has a couple, Hsu, Powesound Audio. Research some of those Internet direct sub companies. For movie watching, getting a good sub will probably make the most difference as opposed to choosing between Jamo or Episode or whatever for your speakers.

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post #20 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Would a 120" screen on a wall that is 9 ft tall by 12 ft wide leave much room for speakers?
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post #21 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 03:13 PM
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I would just get a screen like this, and have it mounted sticking out about 12" from the wall

http://www.projectorscreenstore.com/Projector-Screens/Elite-Screens-Spectrum-Series-125-Diag-61x109-Electric-Projector-Screen-HDTV-Format-AcousticPro1080P2-Fabric-Electric125H-A1080P2-71343.html

You would then get standard speakers placed up against the wall less then 12" deep, and your screen drops down right in front of them
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post #22 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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We already feel like the room isn;t as long as we would like (17') so a screen that sticks out one ft from the wall probably wouldn't be best.
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post #23 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 03:42 PM
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It may be prudent to establish a budget at well. There are good options at almost any price point, but we need to find that price point. That being said, if you want truly theater like audio, you won't get it for $700 for all 7 speakers, though you do get a lot more sound quality for your money if you don't use in-wall speakers.
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post #24 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 09:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are the speakers: Episode 300 Series In-Wall Speaker with 6.5 in. Woofers

http://www.episodespeakers.com/product/41/Episode-300-Series-In-Wall-Speaker-with-6.5-in.-Woofers

Episode 300 Series In-Wall Speaker with 6.5 in. Woofers

Woofer: 6-1/2" Polypropylene Cone, Nomex Spider & High Temp Voice Coil

Tweeter: 1" Fabric Dome, Ferrofluid Cooled, Neo-Magnet Tweeter

Recommended Amplifier Power: 90 Watts RMS, 225 Watt Peak

Nominal Impedance: 6

Frequency Response (-6DB): 50Hz - 20KHz

Crossover Frequency: 6.0 kHz

Sensitivity- 2.83 V / 1 Meter 87

Color: White

Connector Type: Gold Plated push terminals

Grill Type Aluminum Micro-Perf Mesh

Finished Dimensions 12" x 8.6" x 3.3"

Cut Out Dimensions 10.8" x 7.4"

Mounting Depth: 3.0" Weight: 7.6 lbs.

I have no idea what those specs mean or if they indicate a decent speaker. The installer is charging me aprox $540 for all 7 speakers.
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post #25 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 10:11 PM
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the specs aren't great, even taking the very low price into consideration. they will struggle to fill even a modest size room. The website even says they are meant for "background music" which is a far cry from what you said you wanted. do you absolutely need to stick with in-wall speakers? like I said, using in-walls is a huge liability if sound quality matters.

for about the same price you could get 7 of the Pioneer Andrew Jones speakers which would be a huge step up. even so, if theater sound really is what you are after you will need to adjust how much of your budget goes towards your speakers. I'd also agree with NewHTBuyer, don't go with any of the subs they want you to buy. you will get significantly more for your money buying from one of the internet direct companies.
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post #26 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 10:26 PM
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They don't look terrible for the price, but it's a shame that you are going cheap on audio when everything else is looking nice. I realize you might not have a lot of lots of extra money for a higher end audio system, and if that is the case, I would urge you to just get two decent speakers for now and add the other channel speakers as funds allow. This will get you a decent system to start with a provide a base for a much better setup in the end. You don't really need to spend a fortune to get a good sound, however you will need to spend more than $500. Anyway I would skip those speakers in either case. If you are going to punch holes in your wall, it should for something better than a budget in-wall speaker.
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post #27 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 10:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm just listing what the installer recommended. Why wouldn't the installer recommend a better/more expensive speakers? I never gave him a budget. I just said I wanted a good HD 3D projector, 120 inch screen and movie theater quality sound.
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post #28 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 11:05 PM
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What is your budget?
Where are you planing an placing the equipment?

As an Episode dealer, I would never recommend the 300 series speakers for a dedicated theater room.

If you want to keep the room as clean as possible, I would place the take the option to move the wires to the closet and get a RF remote to control the gear. Get an AcoustiWeave Dragonfly screen and place way better in-wall speakers (like Episode 900 series) behind the screen at ear height to the lower seating or slightly higher, and place in-walls in the surround and rears locations as they kind of point down anyways.

The other option is to use the existing speaker locations but use wall mounted speakers that would ave better performance per dollar than in-walls and point the speakers at the listening area. Something like MK 150 Series or JTR Single 8HT-lp speakers.

This still leaves a dilemma for the subwoofer. Maybe you can try placing one between the door and the riser and see how it sounds.
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post #29 of 91 Old 07-12-2013, 11:08 PM
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To be honest, the first installer sounds like a friend or family and you are looking for options instead of using them.
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post #30 of 91 Old 07-13-2013, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nflguy View Post

I'm just listing what the installer recommended. Why wouldn't the installer recommend a better/more expensive speakers?.
Clueless? IME perhaps 10% of installers really know what they're doing. IMO none who do would recommend cheap in-walls or in-ceilings to go along with that screen size, nor even one a quarter that size. It makes as much sense as powering a 120 foot yacht with a ten horsepower outboard motor. Real speakers behind an acoustically transparent screen, and at least two 15 inch subs, is the way to go. No less than half your budget should be devoted to the audio.
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Should I expect a discounted install charge since the room is prewired? Assuming they don't move the locations of the wires?
Don't botch the job just to use existing wires.

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