MillenniaOne Speaker System vs Morel Soundspot Music Theatre 2 Ultra / Aventage vs Anthem AV Receivers - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 07-15-2013, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm currently upgrading my home theater system and after some online research, I have narrowed down my search to the following:

Speaker System (design and performance both important):
1- Paradigm MillenniaOne (amazing reviews everywhere) paired with SB12-NSD sub.
2- Morel Soundspot Music Theatre 2 Ultra
3- Minx 525

A/V Receivers:
1- Anthem MRX 500 (I only chose it over the MXR 300 due to networking options which is a must for me)
2- Yamaha Aventage RX-A2030 or RX-A1030 (undecided)

The room is about 4m x 6m

I'm a beginner and would sincerely appreciate some professional help on this matter as I will need to make these purchases very soon.

Mind you I cannot test these products as I do not have any of them in my city (Cairo).

Thank you!
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post #2 of 34 Old 07-15-2013, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Can somebody please reply to my thread?

HELP!!!!
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post #3 of 34 Old 07-15-2013, 05:51 PM
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The Paradigm Millenia One is very highly rated. It'll be quite a bit better than the Minx because it has a separate midrange and tweeter. Don't get the sub that comes with it, there are much better ones for the money.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #4 of 34 Old 07-15-2013, 06:34 PM
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Hi muri11, I have the milleniaones and the SB12 along with a denon 4520 and I can tell you that those speakers are great they blend very well with the sb12 audessey set the crossovers at 120 for the LR and 110 for the centre, I suspect the anthem or the Yamaha's auto setups would be similar. Purchase with confidence.
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post #5 of 34 Old 07-16-2013, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muri11 View Post

I'm currently upgrading my home theater system and after some online research, I have narrowed down my search to the following:

Speaker System (design and performance both important):
1- Paradigm MillenniaOne (amazing reviews everywhere) paired with SB12-NSD sub.
2- Morel Soundspot Music Theatre 2 Ultra
3- Minx 525

A/V Receivers:
1- Anthem MRX 500 (I only chose it over the MXR 300 due to networking options which is a must for me)
2- Yamaha Aventage RX-A2030 or RX-A1030 (undecided)

The room is about 4m x 6m

I'm a beginner and would sincerely appreciate some professional help on this matter as I will need to make these purchases very soon.

Mind you I cannot test these products as I do not have any of them in my city (Cairo).

Thank you!

First, an Egyptian looking at Israeli speakers? Nice sign of how far the world's come. That said, I wouldn't recommend the Morels, simply because Morel has abysmal quality control on both their raw cone drivers and their finished products.

I also wouldn't actually recommend the Paradigms. They're well engineered speakers, but from what I know of Cairene home construction (heavy, reflective plaster walls, marble floors, etc.) they'll sound bright because they're voiced for standard North American "cardboard and spit" homes. And even there, they're a bit bright and thin sounding IMO.

The Minx, by contrast, is basically just "Bose cubes with an audiophile nameplate." May as well just go with the original...

A speaker set that might do well for you is the old KEF KHT3005SE. Voiced well for harder rooms (downward-tilted FR), very high standard of build and quality control, great sound. They've been replaced by a new model (name escapes me, E-something) that's probably good but I've not heard them or seen measurements. Another, more expensive but IMO not better, is the Tannoy Arena. That said, if the Tannoys are available to you and the KEFs are not, then they're a good option.

As for AVRs, it's dicey. ARC will make the MRX the better-sounding unit, but I would expect Yamaha to have better quality control. A few of us, myself included, had MRX's that had fatal flaws out of the box and needed swapping. (MIne gave me nothing but pink/purple screens through the HDMI output.) If you had a local dealer with stock who could just swap out a defective unit, I'd say MRX without a doubt. But if your purchase is remote (especially it involves shipping from Dubai or something) it's a closer call. I'd probably get the Yamaha.
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post #6 of 34 Old 07-16-2013, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

First, an Egyptian looking at Israeli speakers? Nice sign of how far the world's come. That said, I wouldn't recommend the Morels, simply because Morel has abysmal quality control on both their raw cone drivers and their finished products.

I also wouldn't actually recommend the Paradigms. They're well engineered speakers, but from what I know of Cairene home construction (heavy, reflective plaster walls, marble floors, etc.) they'll sound bright because they're voiced for standard North American "cardboard and spit" homes. And even there, they're a bit bright and thin sounding IMO.

The Minx, by contrast, is basically just "Bose cubes with an audiophile nameplate." May as well just go with the original...

A speaker set that might do well for you is the old KEF KHT3005SE. Voiced well for harder rooms (downward-tilted FR), very high standard of build and quality control, great sound. They've been replaced by a new model (name escapes me, E-something) that's probably good but I've not heard them or seen measurements. Another, more expensive but IMO not better, is the Tannoy Arena. That said, if the Tannoys are available to you and the KEFs are not, then they're a good option.

As for AVRs, it's dicey. ARC will make the MRX the better-sounding unit, but I would expect Yamaha to have better quality control. A few of us, myself included, had MRX's that had fatal flaws out of the box and needed swapping. (MIne gave me nothing but pink/purple screens through the HDMI output.) If you had a local dealer with stock who could just swap out a defective unit, I'd say MRX without a doubt. But if your purchase is remote (especially it involves shipping from Dubai or something) it's a closer call. I'd probably get the Yamaha.


Hi,

Have you heard any of the speakers? I have heard & auditioned all of them including the KEF's you mentioned. The Paradigm Milenia Ones are some of the very best sounding small speakers can can get and they are exceptionally good for their size - this is confirmed by numerous rave reviews & best buys from across the world.

As for your opinion on the Minx - you are sadly very wrong to assume that they are just another version of "Bose Cubes" - they sound nothing like a Bose and are far superior in every way - they are truly amazing for for size and create a huge, open soundstage and sound very different to most other small speakers due the the BMR Driver employed. Again, the Minx have received glowing reviews & best buy status from nearly every review the world over.

I have had Bose, KEF, Morel, Orbs & Gallos in the past amongst others and now have the Minx 20/21's and am very happy with them.

I agree with the poster who has the Millennia ones with the SVS SB12-NSD - this sub would be a great match.

OP, if you can afford the extra expense, my choice would be the Milenia Ones followed by the Minx21 from your list. If you can go bigger, consider the Monitor Audio Apex range & also have a look at the New KEF E Series.

I would strongly recommend you get a ID Sub like the SVS SB12-NSD, SB1000 etc.

Bazzy!
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post #7 of 34 Old 07-16-2013, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all for your help. I greatly appreciate it.

DS-21 - Thank you for your detailed reply.
As an Egyptian, I would be happy to tell you that we love music just as much as anybody else. And we will try to get the best sounding system possible, problem is, no showrooms to test them.We also supply Israel with the majority of their natural gas. People move on smile.gif

Politics aside, am I correct to narrow my search down to the following:
A- AVR:
1- Yamaha Aventage 2030

B- Speaker System:
1- New KEF E Series (they seem great!) - do i still need to ditch the KEF Sub?
2- MilleniaOne

Which speaker system out of these 2?

Thank you very much.

M
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post #8 of 34 Old 07-16-2013, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

]Hi,

Have you heard any of the speakers?

Yes, except for the Morel.
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Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

As for your opinion on the Minx - you are sadly very wrong ***

Not based on what I've heard from them, and third party measurements. Perhaps it's simply a matter that our expectations for loudspeakers are different.

They get "best buy" nonsense because...they're Bose cubes with an audiophile snob brand name, and nicer finishes. And CA advertises in audio review magazines and websites.

Also, the BMR drivers are nothing special. They're basically iPod dock drivers, and cost about 6 USD a piece in hobbyist quantities. But in the little things' defense, nothing in that size can provide much output under 300-400Hz at spirited levels. The best things in that size-class were probably the discontinued and rare Aura Whisper Ensemble, followed by the baby KEF eggs, 1005 or whatever. But all of them are just too small to be much good in the upper bass.

Another option to consider, cheaper and on the bright side of neutral but less bright than the MillenniaOne, are the NHT Absolute Zero. Very good little speaker.
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As an Egyptian, I would be happy to tell you that we love music just as much as anybody else.

smile.gif

Stay safe, man. And Ramadan Mubarak!

Also, no need to ditch the KEF sub if you go that way. You may want a bigger, better one later, but it comes with the eggs in the same box - IIRC the MillenniaOne is sold as a 5.0 channel set with the sub an extra purchase, and I concur with others that it doesn't represent great value - and it'll match the output capabilities of the eggs well enough. If you get an urge to upgrade later, you always can.
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post #9 of 34 Old 07-16-2013, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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thank you for your reply.

I'm almost there i believe.

M
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post #10 of 34 Old 07-16-2013, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh and Ramadan Karim sir.
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post #11 of 34 Old 07-16-2013, 05:14 PM
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Perhaps it's simply a matter that our expectations for loudspeakers are different.

Maybe but I always have realistic expectations & apply common sense when auditioning loudspeakers as there are many variables that can make speakers sound good, bad or different/indifferent when not evaluated long term in ones own environment. Having said that, my standards area as demanding as anyone else's.

The Minx need quite a large amount of break in time before they begin they begin to sound anywhere near good - initially I too was disappointed with the sound but after about 50-60hours they sounded like a completely different speaker. If I have one main criticism, it would be that they need a fairly high crossover.
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They get "best buy" nonsense because...they're Bose cubes with an audiophile snob brand name, and nicer finishes. And CA advertises in audio review magazines and websites.

Well, you are the one who sounds like a snob now - how ironic? I too was extremely skeptical of them but for what they are they sound very good indeed once broken in. Your argument that they get Best Buy status just because they are made by CA is just pure nonsense & BS - here in England where CA is based, CA is considered a somewhat decent but mid-level brand which does not have an evangelical following & certainly not in the same classification as the likes of Meridian, Naim, Linn etc which are considered true audiophile premium brands.

CA advertises is audio review mags & websites & that is why they get best buy status? Are you on crack? Hundreds of companies do the same! I always take reviews as a guide & not as holy gospel & appreciate that in a commercial world, certain factors may/may not have some influence but CA is not a huge Titan of a firm like Samsung that it has such power to dictate things to such a level - by CE standards, it is quite a small company.

The Best Buy Reviews incidentally are from all over the world - USA, UK, Australia, Asia,Germany, France, Scandinavia etc which shows consistency of results from different reviewers globally - unless of course they too have either different/lesser expectations than yourself, evaluated them over a longer term or as you implied, CA has full global control over what the reviewers from across the world can say about their products which is ridiculous!
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post #12 of 34 Old 07-17-2013, 03:11 AM
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The Minx need quite a large amount of break in time before they begin they begin to sound anywhere near good - initially I too was disappointed with the sound but after about 50-60hours they sounded like a completely different speaker. If I have one main criticism, it would be that they need a fairly high crossover.

I won't address the rest of your post, because it has only the most tenuous relationship to what I actually wrote. However, I have to call BS here. There's simply no such thing as "break in," except for a person's ear-brain system learning to cope with the flaws of a device. Here's what Dr. Floyd Toole (former researcher for the NRC in Canada and former head of research at Harman International) wrote about this "break in" idiocy:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Floyd Toole 
In parts of the audio industry, there is a belief that *** loudspeakers need to “break in.” Out of the box, it is assumed that they will not be performing at their best. Proponents vehemently deny that this process has anything to do with adaptation, writing extensively about changes in performance that they claim are easily audible in several aspects of device performance. Yet, the author is not aware of any controlled test in which any consequential audible differences were found, even in loudspeakers, where there would seem to be some oppor- tunities for material changes. A few years ago, to satisfy a determined marketing person, the research group per- formed a test using samples of a loudspeaker that was claimed to benefit from “breaking in.” Measurements before and after the recommended break-in showed no differences in frequency response, except a very tiny change around 30–40 Hz in the one area where break-in effects could be expected: woofer compliance. Careful listening tests revealed no audible differences. None of this was surprising to the engineering staff. It is not clear whether the marketing person was satisfied by the finding. To all of us [engineering staff], this has to be very reassuring because it means that the performance of loudspeakers is stable, except for the known small change in woofer compliance caused by exercising the suspension and the deterioration—breaking down—of foam surrounds and some diaphragm materials with time, moisture, and atmospheric pollutants. It is fascinating to note that “breaking-in” seems always to result in an improvement in performance. Why? Do all mechanical and electrical devices and materials acquire a musical aptitude that is missing in their virgin state? Why is it never reversed, getting worse with use? The reality is that engineers seek out materials, components, and construction methods that do not change with time. Suppose that the sound did improve over time as something broke in. What then? Would it eventually decline, just as wine goes “over the hill”? One can imagine an advertisement for a vintage loudspeaker: “An audiophile dream. Model XX, manufactured 2004, broken in with Mozart, Schubert, and acoustic jazz. Has never played anything more aggressive than the Beatles. Originally $1700/pair. Now at their performance peak—a steal at $3200!”
-Toole, Sound Reproduction (Focal Press 2009), at 353. (emph. added)

To put it another way, if a mechanical system changes dramatically in 60 hours of use, then by 120 hours of use it's probably all used up.
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post #13 of 34 Old 07-17-2013, 05:30 AM
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I won't address the rest of your post, because it has only the most tenuous relationship to what I actually wrote. However, I have to call BS here.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black - if anyone wrote a tenuous statement it was you when you stated:

"They get "best buy" nonsense because...they're Bose cubes with an audiophile snob brand name, and nicer finishes. And CA advertises in audio review magazines and websites."

There is no meaningful or factual data/information there apart from your own biased viewpoint which hardly qualifies as fact & to then accuse others of a weak argument when presented with actual facts & choosing not address such is somewhat hypocritical to say the least.

I have had Gallos, Orbs, KEF's, Morel's amongst other sub/sat systems as well as the Minx and gave my opinion based on an actual owners perspective. There are many controversial areas in the audio world - speaker break in being one of them. It was my experience that there was a huge difference in SQ after they were played for some time & this seems to be the main consensus of many Minx owners worldwide.

At the end of the day, it all boils downs to how speakers perform in real life rather than what some white paper says which you seem to base your judgements upon - you carry on reading - the rest of us will carry on using our ears & listening and making objective determinations in real world environments.

Edit:

From Home Theatre Magazine:

"Bending, and not always acting like a piston, is what makes BMRs different from conventional cone and dome drivers. Conventional drivers attempt to move like pistons, with the entire diaphragm moving back and forth in unison. A BMR driver creates controlled ripples in the diaphragm like a bunch of stones tossed into a pond, bending the diaphragm to generate high frequencies. Effectively, the higher frequencies are being produced with the diaphragm in a controlled version of what engineers often call “break-up mode.” Once out of the driver’s piston band, different frequencies cause areas of the diaphragm to move in different directions relative to one another, resulting in phase behavior that yields a sonic character that many would describe as spacious or larger than life. On the plus side, sound is disbursed so evenly horizontally and vertically that the distinction between on- and off-axis response all but disappears. This phenomenon applies here to frequencies above about 800 Hz; below that point, the driver has a more conventional pistonic movement. Shift around the sofa all you want: The sound will move with you. To anyone weaned on ordinary speakers, this can seem like a miracle."

Speaker break in may/may not be an issue with conventional speaker drivers depending either on the actual drivers or speakers themselves but you have failed to understand & appreciate that the BMR Driver is designed to operate in a completely different way.

As for your biased assertion that the Minx's are just another version of Bose just because they have similar form factor & that break in is not an factor please read the following excerpts from the the same Home Theatre magazine review:

"I’d been warned that the Minxes needed break-in time. What I had not expected was how dramatically they would morph from a stingy bass-light sound to a full, rich tonal balance. As uncrated, the speakers could barely muster a soundfield or a stereo image. Within just a few hours, they commanded the room with a swagger, transcending both their size and positioning to produce a huge and seamless soundfield with a vertically and horizontally spacious front soundstage that didn’t seem to come from the little cubes at all.

Normally, I don’t make a big deal of break-in, but the reader who buys these speakers needs to know that the first few hours will not be even remotely indicative of long-term performance. Be patient.

I go out of my way to review compact satellite/subwoofer sets and have acquired a large frame of reference for the category. Cambridge Audio’s S325v2 speaker package is one of the best I’ve heard. Let me be more specific: As far as the Min 21 satellite is concerned, I’ve never heard a better one, and I can count its equals on the fingers of one hand with a few fingers left over.

The Minx offers a completely satisfying listening experience, both musically and cinematically. If I were buying a compact sat/sub set today, this would be the one."



Bazzy.
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post #14 of 34 Old 07-17-2013, 03:46 PM
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I won't address the rest of your post, because it has only the most tenuous relationship to what I actually wrote. However, I have to call BS here. There's simply no such thing as "break in," except for a person's ear-brain system learning to cope with the flaws of a device. Here's what Dr. Floyd Toole (former researcher for the NRC in Canada and former head of research at Harman International) wrote about this "break in" idiocy:
-Toole, Sound Reproduction (Focal Press 2009), at 353.

To put it another way, if a mechanical system changes dramatically in 60 hours of use, then by 120 hours of use it's probably all used up.
Bill Fitzmaurice has said that he's actually measured a difference with woofer breaking in. I think he said the Q dropped a bit. You'd have to ask him.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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Bill Fitzmaurice has said that he's actually measured a difference with woofer breaking in. I think he said the Q dropped a bit. You'd have to ask him.

That is in the paragraph pasted from O'Toole. But that doesn't matter since a slight lowering of the Q wouldn't be noticeable. The point stands, break-in is largely a product of imagination.
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post #16 of 34 Old 07-17-2013, 07:14 PM
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I have had Gallos, Orbs, KEF's, Morel's amongst other sub/sat systems as well as the Minx and gave my opinion based on an actual owners perspective. There are many controversial areas in the audio world - speaker break in being one of them. It was my experience that there was a huge difference in SQ after they were played for some time & this seems to be the main consensus of many Minx owners worldwide.

Yes, your ears adapt to their many glaring flaws and they seem less horrid than they did with fresh ears. That's the real "break-in."

Furthermore, many of these "controversial" areas are in fact not controversial at all to people with any sense. But if you want to believe against evidence in bizarre idiocies such as speaker break-in, wire sound, the magical effects of green pens on CDs, and other "controversial areas"....whatever.

Furthermore, I know full well how a BMR operates. (Though using break-up modes to extend the HF response is a design "feature" in many non-rigid cone drivers too, of course.) The fact remains that if a BMR or any other mechanical device changes performance dramatically in a mere 60 hours of use, then it is a mechanical device with a very short lifespan. How often does Cambridge recommend one swap out those little pea-shooters? See, if what you write is actually a mechanical change rather than user adaptation, then it must follow that the drivers are a wear item like tires on a car!

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post #17 of 34 Old 07-17-2013, 08:07 PM
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Yes, your ears adapt to their many glaring flaws and they seem less horrid than they did with fresh ears. That's the real "break-in."

Furthermore, many of these "controversial" areas are in fact not controversial at all to people with any sense. But if you want to believe against evidence in bizarre idiocies such as speaker break-in, wire sound, the magical effects of green pens on CDs, and other "controversial areas"....whatever.

Furthermore, I know full well how a BMR operates. (Though using break-up modes to extend the HF response is a design "feature" in many non-rigid cone drivers too, of course.) The fact remains that if a BMR or any other mechanical device changes performance dramatically in a mere 60 hours of use, then it is a mechanical device with a very short lifespan. How often does Cambridge recommend one swap out those little pea-shooters? See, if what you write is actually a mechanical change rather than user adaptation, then it must follow that the drivers are a wear item like tires on a car!

It is no point talking to you - you refuse to see any point of view or accept any opinion other than your own even when presented with facts & data from a number of sources & experiences of users worldwide. You apply sweeping & generalised statements that are either biased or limited & conveniently ignoring what does not suit your viewpoint only then to respond with & resort to childish & personal attacking comments which again is very telling.

Unlike you, I actually own the speakers & have used them over a long time & my findings are consistent with that of nearly every professional review & of the many other user experiences - you can take that, like it or lump it - I use my ears to determine what sounds good & have had many a different sub/sat system to compare with. Sub/Sat systems are a compromise by their very nature & all have some sort of deficiency and/or limitations as do all speakers.

You can believe whatever mumbo-jimbo you want or convince yourself that you & you alone are the one & only divine authority on what sounds good - whatever feeds that massive ego of yours to get you through the day. You come across as a guy that thinks he is an expert lover just because he has read a book about how to have sex or just because he watches porn.
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It is no point talking to you *** You can believe whatever mumbo-jimbo you want ***

The mere fact that you dismiss the results of an experiment reported by Dr. Floyd Toole in his comprehensive lit review of the science behind audio, Sound Reproduction, as "whatever mumbo-jumbo," says more than I ever could. So good day, sir.

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post #19 of 34 Old 07-18-2013, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

The mere fact that you dismiss the results of an experiment reported by Dr. Floyd Toole in his comprehensive lit review of the science behind audio, Sound Reproduction, as "whatever mumbo-jumbo," says more than I ever could. So good day, sir.

And the more than mere facts you have have consistently dismissed the findings of multiple professional reviewers across the world as well as that of hundreds of actual owners together with published data backing up their findings confirms that you are both a hypocrite and egotist & your justification for such is to attack others & by coming up with ridiculous conspiracy theories which have no substance.

I was perfectly civil to you from the outset with the aim of helping the OP with their direct enquiry - but all you seemed to want to do was stroke your ego online by being arrogant & refusing to accept any point of view other than your own & then being sarcastic to others trying to help the OP. You seem to suffer from some sort of deep Borderline Personality Disorder entrenched in a narcissistic framework and a huge ego - get some help before it is too late unless of course, it already is.
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post #20 of 34 Old 07-18-2013, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

Bill Fitzmaurice has said that he's actually measured a difference with woofer breaking in. I think he said the Q dropped a bit. You'd have to ask him.
All of the specs change, as they're all intertwined. I routinely measure a drop of 10-15% in Fs, which is the major change. More examples are found here:
http://www.gr-research.com/myths.htm
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Yes, your ears adapt to their many glaring flaws and they seem less horrid than they did with fresh ears. That's the real "break-in."
That does occur, but the fact that it does in no way diminishes the fact that loudspeaker drivers are mechanical devices, and like all mechanical devices their properties do change with usage.
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The fact remains that if a BMR or any other mechanical device changes performance dramatically in a mere 60 hours of use, then it is a mechanical device with a very short lifespan
Hardly. The change in how a driver functions in a mere 60 hours of use is not the least bit different than how a pair of unwashed blue jeans or stiff leather shoes fit after a mere 60 hours of use, and for exactly the same reason. That change by no means affects the life of the pants or shoes, or a driver.

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The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
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post #21 of 34 Old 07-18-2013, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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So just to clarify can somebody pls rank the following speaker systems:

- MelleniaOne with SB12-NSD sub
- New KEF E series
- Minx 525
- Morel (nobody mentioned them at all. Are they bad?)

I think that I will then get the collective average for each system and make my decision.

It's jus a bit confusing at the moment.

Thank you

M
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post #22 of 34 Old 07-18-2013, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by muri11 View Post

So just to clarify can somebody pls rank the following speaker systems:

- MelleniaOne with SB12-NSD sub
- New KEF E series
- Minx 525
- Morel (nobody mentioned them at all. Are they bad?)

I think that I will then get the collective average for each system and make my decision.

It's jus a bit confusing at the moment.

Thank you

M

Hi,

I have heard & auditioned most of most of them except the KEF E Series at length. I have the Minx set up & it really does sound excellent - ask other Minx owners on this & other forums & also google the reviews. Having said that, the order I would say without any bias or agenda would be:

1) MileniaOnes with the SVS SB12-NSD. (Bear in mind that the MileniaOnes are the most expensive satellites)

2a) Minx 525 with the X500 Subwoofer or SVS-SB12-NSD. (Note: The X500 is quite expensive but if you can afford it & want it to keep everything CA go for it but the SVS SB-12NSD/SB1000 would be a fantastic match & should work out cheaper).

2b) KEF E Series - I have not heard them yet but initial reviews seem very positive indeed. KEF have a good track record of making good sub-sat systems but their subs have always been considered a weak point. Again, I would forgo the package 8" KEF sub & go for the SVS SB12-NSD/SB1000.

Please do not go for an 8" Sub if you can - you will probably feel the need to upgrade it at a later stage & then have to spend even more money - why not just match properly in the first place & then you will not have to worry about it. I think if you go to the subwoofer section & ask anyone there, which would be better - an 8" package supplied sub or a 10"/12" ID brand model like SVS etc - the response will be overwhelming in favour of the latter (do not follow the disastrous advice given to you previously to buy the KEF sub & then upgrade later). You can ask the resident subwoofer guru Jim Wilson who reviews subwoofers & speakers to confirm as well as others if need be.

You will also see from the Paradigm & Minx thread just how happy owners of the MileniaOnes & Minx's are which should give you some peace of mind as well as the many glowing reviews for both products. If you can afford the MileniaOnes, go for them , if not consider either the Minx Min21 set up or the KEF E Series. A MileniaOne & SB12-NSD owner has already posted on this thread how happy he/she is with the set up.

If there is any way for you to audition at length first that would be best especially in your home. If you can accommodate bigger speakers but still somewhat compact, then please also strongly consider the Monitor Audio Apex range (with the exception of the sub) - they too are excellent for their size.

If you do consider the Apex, then I would say they would be my first choice as they are the same price range as the MileniaOnes - just something to consider.

Hope that helps!

Bazzy!
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post #23 of 34 Old 07-18-2013, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muri11 View Post

So just to clarify can somebody pls rank the following speaker systems:

- MelleniaOne with SB12-NSD sub
- New KEF E series
- Minx 525
- Morel (nobody mentioned them at all. Are they bad?)

I think that I will then get the collective average for each system and make my decision.

It's jus a bit confusing at the moment.

Thank you

M
I agree with your assesment. Millenia One with the SVS sub would be my first choice as well.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #24 of 34 Old 07-18-2013, 04:30 PM
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To the OP, I don't think many people have heard the new KEF eggs, as they're just a couple months on the market. I personally prefer the old KEF KHT-3005SE to the Paradigms, but they're both well-engineered, high-quality speakers. Either way, you'll be getting about as good as you can get for the size.
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Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

Bill Fitzmaurice has said that he's actually measured a difference with woofer breaking in. I think he said the Q dropped a bit. You'd have to ask him.
All of the specs change, as they're all intertwined. I routinely measure a drop of 10-15% in Fs, which is the major change. More examples are found here:
http://www.gr-research.com/myths.htm

Right, Fs and compliance change...in opposite directions (Fs down, Vas up) such that the end result is basically the same alignment. At any rate, the effects shown by minor drifts in T/S parameters are completely swamped by the room anyway, so not that relevant or interesting.

Danny's little demo would've been more interesting had he presented relevant and material data, such as changes in midband frequency response over time. As it were, he proved nothing that wasn't already obvious. (Never mind that in running a driver for 80 hours...you're not measuring "burn in," you're measuring burning, which is to say thermal compression. Interesting that he didn't bother to list delta-Re, no?)
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Hardly. The change in how a driver functions in a mere 60 hours of use is not the least bit different than how a pair of unwashed blue jeans or stiff leather shoes fit after a mere 60 hours of use, and for exactly the same reason. That change by no means affects the life of the pants or shoes, or a driver.

I think I'll stick with Dr. Toole's controlled listening tests on this one. And if your shoes don't feel conforming and comfortable right away, you're not buying shoes made on lasts well-suited to your feet. (And both shoes and jeans are clearly wear items, just like my earlier examples of tires or motor oil.)

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"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait

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post #25 of 34 Old 07-19-2013, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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thank you very much. your reply has been most helpful bazzy.

Thank you all for your posts.
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post #26 of 34 Old 07-20-2013, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello All,

I've stumbled upon the B&W MT-60 and MT-50. Should any of these systems factor into my decision while considering the results that you have given me in this thread?

ie. vs any of the following:
- Monitor Apex
- MelleniaOne with SB12-NSD sub
- New KEF E series

thank you and much appreciated
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post #27 of 34 Old 07-20-2013, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by muri11 View Post

Hello All,

I've stumbled upon the B&W MT-60 and MT-50. Should any of these systems factor into my decision while considering the results that you have given me in this thread?

ie. vs any of the following:
- Monitor Apex
- MelleniaOne with SB12-NSD sub
- New KEF E series

thank you and much appreciated

Hi,

I have heard the first generation M1's & they were very good indeed & have quite a following in the UK - reports are that the MKII's are even better! If I get a chance to check them out in the next couple of weeks, I will let you know - both have received Best Buy Status over here as well - if you do consider them, it would make sense to get the newer versions.

The PV1-D is a very cool looking sub but quite expensive - if cost is a concern, I would go for one of the SVS subs. Another very good value to performance sub to consider would be XTZ from Sweden - take a look at the 99W10.16 - exceptional value for money - I am just factoring for the possibility that certain brands might be more difficult to get or cost more over others where you are!

Bazzy!
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post #28 of 34 Old 07-20-2013, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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you're the best bazzy!

so assuming the new MKII's are better, would you prefer them to the the speaker systems i mentioned?
oh and budget is an issue. so outsourcing the sub is a definite option.

thank you
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post #29 of 34 Old 07-20-2013, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by muri11 View Post

you're the best bazzy!

so assuming the new MKII's are better, would you prefer them to the the speaker systems i mentioned?
oh and budget is an issue. so outsourcing the sub is a definite option.

thank you

Hi,

Even though I have the Minx which just sound fantastic for their size (& I am not saying do they not have limitations!), it depends on how big you want to go in terms of speaker size!

TBH, if you music is as important to you than movies then I would still say the Apex - did you check them out? The B&W M1's (MKI's) I heard were very nice & a little warm sounding but quite smooth. The MileniaOnes can punch really hard are more impressive with movies they sound very dynamic but can be a little dry/hard depending on the material under some circumstances.

Not heard the new KEF E- Series but plan to soon - initial reports are very positive on the satellites but seem a little cheaper made than the 3005 probably to keep costs down.

TBH, most sub/sat systems will sound better with movies than music but that is the nature of the beast! It is a pity you are not in the UK - as I am planning to sell my X500 Subwoofer & some spare Min21's!

What size is your room? I really do not think you will be disappointed in any of them but I would go for the one which gives best value for money in your local market and/or availability. If say one of your options might be a little better than the other, no real reason to pay significantly more for a small improvement due to high import costs/charges, customs taxes etc!

Is there no way you can audition any of the options? Forgive me if that might not be an options with all the current events & happenings.

Bazzy!
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post #30 of 34 Old 07-21-2013, 02:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey Bazzy,

'TBH, if you music is as important to you than movies then I would still say the Apex - did you check them out?'
I woud say 60% movies and tv shows vs 40% music

'What size is your room?'
My TV room is about 4.5m x 6m. But i plan on connecting speakers to the rest of my home as zone 2.

'Is there no way you can audition any of the options?'
Unfortunately we do not have showrooms here for me to test any of them. So I'm basing my decision on reviews an mainly this forum. I will purchase them from abroad in all cases.

This is also the reason why I will not buy the Anthem MRX 500, as I've read reviews stating that it commonly ships defective units which would be fine if the store is in Cairo but as this is not the case I've opted for the new Yamaha Aventage (either the RX-A1030 or the RX-A2030 .. don't know which one I'll need) . Do you have any suggestions on this matter?

Thank you Bazzy
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