Brain BLOCK...HOW DO YOU BI-WIRE SPEAKERS??? do you use the binders??? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 07-16-2013, 11:14 PM - Thread Starter
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title says it all. Right now I have the binders off, and am sending 2 sets of speaker wires to my top and bottom end WITHOUT binders....Did I just have a brain Fart??? biggrin.gif

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post #2 of 16 Old 07-16-2013, 11:47 PM
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You can biwire with or without the bridges(binders) attached: it will make no difference sonically.

If you bi-amp you must disconnect the bridges to prevent electrical problems.
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post #3 of 16 Old 07-17-2013, 05:05 AM
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Why would you biwire? All it does is waste wire, it doesn't change anything.

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post #4 of 16 Old 07-17-2013, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

Why would you biwire? All it does is waste wire, it doesn't change anything.
+1. All it does functionally is to move the jumper position from the back of the speaker to the back of the receiver. That accomplishes absolutely nothing, except to double what you spent on wire. mad.gif

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post #5 of 16 Old 07-17-2013, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I already had the wire, so I said, 'why not?'......I'm using kimber kable.....no need to take it out when it's been in place for 12 years now.......

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post #6 of 16 Old 07-17-2013, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by KBMAN View Post

...I'm using kimber kable.....
Screwed you were on paying the price for that stuff as well, but I guess it's 12 years too late for that advice. rolleyes.gif

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post #7 of 16 Old 07-17-2013, 01:22 PM
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Binders???

Do you mean the metal jumpers that connect the LOW and HIGH speaker terminals?

They need to be in place when NOT bi-wiring, and they need to be REMOVED when bi-wiring.

Richard Vandersteen is one of the top speaker designers in the USA, and he says that his in-house research work proves the benefits of bi-wiring for HIS speakers.

Some speakers will benefit from bi-wiring and some will not.
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post #8 of 16 Old 07-17-2013, 03:10 PM
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Vandersteen hasn't proven anything. No speakers benefit from biwiring. Still trotting out the same old BS aren't you commy?

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post #9 of 16 Old 07-17-2013, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

Vandersteen hasn't proven anything.
He's proven that he's not above pandering to the oddiophool contingent. biggrin.gif
But until he's provided peer reviewed double-blind test results that's all he's proven. tongue.gif

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post #10 of 16 Old 07-17-2013, 03:27 PM
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I am considering upgrading to the Vandersteen Treo's. I've never biwired speakers but EVERYTHING I've read says it's a waste of time with the exception of Vandy.

I have a chance to audition the Treo's locally and the dealer told me he'd hook the jumpers up (they are currently biwired in his showroom) so I could hear what they sound like. With my current setup (my AV equiptment is in a different room than the speakers) it would be a major PITA to biwire or biamp.

I want to do a blindfold test on the Treo's to see if biwiring makes a difference. I'm not expecting much, if any difference at all.
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post #11 of 16 Old 07-17-2013, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by steady teddy View Post

I want to do a blindfold test on the Treo's to see if biwiring makes a difference. I'm not expecting much, if any difference at all.

Steady, I biamp (active crossover) so I'm going to presume much of my experience won't matter here.

 

As a side-bar comment....  I was once intrigued by all the wire threads that are on forums.  I decided that I wanted to try some fancy wires....any kind of wires....I WANTED to hear a difference.

 

Mind you, I'm from the school of thought that says 12g lamp cord is fine.  In fact, I am using 12g low voltage outdoor wiring as my speaker wires right now.

 

I had a friend send me his esoteric wires that were full of bloom, spatial qualities....  and other nifty things.

Interestingly, I also had a guy that bought something from me on Ebay, send me as an appreciation gift, some fancy esoteric wire that he had.  This was two runs of about 18 feet each.  This stuff was literally about 8g in size...  about the size that you'd power your oven/stove with.

 

I tried these wires.  Nothing scientific mind you, I didn't have anyone interested enough to dabble with me so I was just changing them around and swapping them with my low voltage wires.

 

I repeat that I WANTED to hear a difference....  frankly.....  I heard nothing.

 

Zippo, nada.

 

Could some golden ears hear something that I couldn't?

 

Perhaps......but if so....then bless them for their ears and my tin ears.....I'd rather not pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for an incremental gain when instead, I could put those funds for a higher class of speaker (or some TAD drivers!) and have some proven qualitative improvements.

 

Back to my friend went his esoteric wire....  and literally, just about 2 weeks ago, I sold "my" esoteric wire that was stuck in a box on Ebay.  I had zero reserve on it as I was happy to give it away and let someone who's got esoteric hearing appreciate the vast improvement over my low voltage wires.

 

Today, we're both happy. 

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post #12 of 16 Old 07-17-2013, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

Binders???

Do you mean the metal jumpers that connect the LOW and HIGH speaker terminals?

They need to be in place when NOT bi-wiring, and they need to be REMOVED when bi-wiring.

If you are biwiring but not biamping you can remove them or leave them in place. It makes no difference.

(actually: I could make a technical case that it's *worse* with the jumper off as you are, in effect, powering two separate speakers with cables half the size (as compared to with the bridge in place))
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post #13 of 16 Old 07-17-2013, 08:32 PM
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The reason why von speaker makes a difference with biwire is because they make special biwire cables for their speakers. So they come up with snake oil to make you believe that their speakers are somewhat different then others. I find that von makes some very nice speakers but some of them could be made by other desinger at a fraction of the cost. I read their vr33 manual, and is pure joke.
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post #14 of 16 Old 07-18-2013, 01:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Screwed you were on paying the price for that stuff as well, but I guess it's 12 years too late for that advice. rolleyes.gif

I used to sell the sh*t and got it for a $1 a foot....so much for your 'advice' rolleyes.gifrolleyes.gif

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post #15 of 16 Old 07-18-2013, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KBMAN View Post

I used to sell the sh*t and got it for a $1 a foot....so much for your 'advice' rolleyes.gifrolleyes.gif
$1 a foot was four times what it was worth. biggrin.gif
And as noted this advice wasn't for you, that horse having long ago left the barn. It was for those who might be inclined to follow your example.

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post #16 of 16 Old 07-18-2013, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicardoJoa View Post

The reason why von speaker makes a difference with biwire is because they make special biwire cables for their speakers. So they come up with snake oil to make you believe that their speakers are somewhat different then others. I find that von makes some very nice speakers but some of them could be made by other desinger at a fraction of the cost. I read their vr33 manual, and is pure joke.
The VR33 is made by Von Schweikert Audio which is a different speaker company than Vandersteen Audio. Although both are California based.

Vandersteen recommends bi-wiring and provides two binding posts on most of their speakers, at least the mains. Looking at the VR33 it seems to only have 1 binding post so I don't think Von Schweikert is in the bi-wiring camp at all.

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