I don't get the Bose hatred - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Bose is not based on psychoacoustics. They're based on psychology, that being if you repeat a myth often enough there's a segment of the population that will accept it as fact. In this case the myth is 'Better sound...through research'. They repeat this myth in their advertising, the budget for which is as much as all the rest of the industry combined, and that pays off in sales made. To reveal actual factual data would contradict the myth, so they don't. To allow their dealers to have side by side comparisons with other brands in listening rooms would shatter the myth entirely, so they don't do that either.

Amar Bose's PhD was in psychoacoustics. I would think that would have a large influence on his products.

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post #152 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 10:58 AM
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As aside, reading this thread reminds me of how lucky I am to be married to my wife.

She has been completely supportive of buying "real audio" equipment and never would think of asking for those tinny tiny Bose cubes.
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post #153 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Bose makes some stylish systems that will appeal to women and that's a target market most of the other speaker mfrs ignore. They don't want wires, big speakers, bulky receivers and equipment, etc.

I have heard plenty of women ask about a Bose setup for their living room, they don't know any other brands. Shows how powerful their marketing is.
...

 

Years ago, my wife asked me about "cute" Bose speakers.  I explained to her the issues with them.  However, there is nothing like a fact learned from one's own experience.  We later attended a party at an acquaintance's home, and they had a Bose system with the "cute" little cubes.  Without any prompting from me, after we got home, my wife commented on horrible they sounded.  Of course, she is used to hearing these:

 

http://www.apogeespeakers.com/stage.htm

 

 

Since Bose has their speakers set up in stores such that people cannot easily compare them with the competition, it is understandable that many people have no idea of how they compare with other speakers.  Also, one never asks for a brand that one has never heard of, so it is likewise understandable that most people are not going to be asking for a brand that does not advertise much.

 

 

With many men, it is completely understandable that their wives do not accept their husband's judgement (both in general, and in the particular subject of audio gear).  Many men are into all sorts of nonsense in audio, and so they are obviously not a trustworthy source.  Many women know to go along with their husband's nonsense about the snake oil he believes in, as the husband will likely pout and throw a temper tantrum if the wives contradict their nonsense. And many who believe in nonsense berate those who are not as stupid as they are.  So if he says that Bose is bad, she has no reason to trust his judgement.  After all, he is wrong about so much else, that there is a high probability of him being wrong about anything he says about audio.

 

 

And because people should read this, even if the author is a bit overwrought, I am including the link again that has already appeared in this thread:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20130121081646/http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html

 

Looking at the measurements is very informative, for those who understand what the measurements mean.


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post #154 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 11:40 AM
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To me, Bose's marketing tactics is the same as Apple. And yet Apple is widely accepted and praised for their cellular phone products (and some others). They are no better than other smartphones and in some ways inferior. Just brand perception and great marketing strategy.

I have Bose systems in my cars. Counting speakers alone, I have more Bose than any other brands! smile.gif

I listened to alot of Bose sounds at the box stores. And alot of time came away pretty impressed. Of course their kiosk are pretty parameterized and optimally set up for good experience. Hey like an Apple kiosk! biggrin.gif Bose kiosks tend to be near TVs with their 8W tweeters.....
For the average people, this experience seals the deal. It's small, compact, not many wires.... all lead to positive WAF. It's a win-win situation. That or settle for TV speakers. eek.gif
The introduction of soundbar and subwoofer combo makes for a good alternative to HTIB. In some sense, it is an even cleaner implementation.

For me, while I seem to have more Bose products in my life, for HT and Stereo music I draw the line in the sand. I cannot stand the insane colorization of the so-called woofers from HTIBs like Bose and soundbars. Imaging is non-existent. The bass from the woofer is boomy and not authoritative. Then again it isn't a real sub is it?

While I don't hate Bose. I certainly would avoid Bose in areas where it counts. Glad my wife recognizes that too well as long I keep my hi-fi set-up neat and tidy. biggrin.gif
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post #155 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by emerson1 View Post

So any recommendations for an alternative to the Wave® Music System III. I'm talking an all in one cd player system like this. I too dislike Bose and would love for this person to not spend $500 on it, but I had someone ask me about this and I can't say that I found anything that is all in one with a CD player like this. Bose might finally have one up on me frown.gif

 

There are many other choices; you just have to look for them (as they are not as well advertised as Bose products).  Such as:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-SoundWorks-Ambiance-Internet-Pandora/dp/B00CFULOZ8/

 

http://www.amazon.com/Crosley-Radio-Cr612-Bk-Corsair-Alarm/dp/B000FMV4TY/

 

Do a bit of searching, and you should find others.  I have no idea how any of these products sound compared to each other, as I have not bothered listening to such things, as I am not in the market for such a thing.  You could try a visit to your local Best Buy and whatever other stores there are in your area that sell small electronics if you wish to hear such things to be able to give good advice.


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post #156 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

However, there is this Yamaha one
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-MCR-B142BL-Desktop-Bluetooth-System/dp/B00B2IRJ76
Wow that is awesome! Can't believe I missed that I guess I wasn't using the correct term for it. I actually found an older model of this without Bluetooth that was only $299.

To add to the Bose hatred. This player comes with Bluetooth built in. The Bose Wave Whatever wants an extra $99.95 for a Bluetooth adapter...
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Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper View Post

There are many other choices; you just have to look for them (as they are not as well advertised as Bose products). Such as:

http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-SoundWorks-Ambiance-Internet-Pandora/dp/B00CFULOZ8/

http://www.amazon.com/Crosley-Radio-Cr612-Bk-Corsair-Alarm/dp/B000FMV4TY/

Do a bit of searching, and you should find others. I have no idea how any of these products sound compared to each other, as I have not bothered listening to such things, as I am not in the market for such a thing. You could try a visit to your local Best Buy and whatever other stores there are in your area that sell small electronics if you wish to hear such things to be able to give good advice.
I'm officially the world's worst searcher. I don't know how I didn't see these.
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post #157 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

Amar Bose's PhD was in psychoacoustics. I would think that would have a large influence on his products.
The only product they ever made to make full use of that knowledge was the 901, and the reviews on that have always been mixed as well. IME it's tolerable, but like all things Bose terribly overpriced.

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post #158 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 03:37 PM
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Bose makes "speakers" like mcdonalds sells a "hamburger". If they didn't do it, someone else would have.

The audio market has been about mediocre margins and relatively small customer base for a very long time. The electronics marketplace in general is in the same position and has been for quite some time.

Bose could do better, oddly they choose not to. It surprises me that they didnt build a higher end brand like toyota has lexus.

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post #159 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by blazar View Post

.

Bose could do better, oddly they choose not to. It surprises me that they didnt build a higher end brand like toyota has lexus.

Shhhhh. Don't give them any ideas....

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post #160 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by charmerci View Post

Shhhhh. Don't give them any ideas....

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They won't because it would expose their fraud.

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post #161 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post


To allow their dealers to have side by side comparisons with other brands in listening rooms would shatter the myth entirely, so they don't do that either.

There are some stores (excluding the actual "Bose Store") that allow side by side comparisons with other brands (usually Harman/Kardon or Polk Audio). I have done side by side comparisons with Bose and some other alternatives (B&W, JBL and KEF). I was expecting a massive difference in sound quality, and I will admit that these similar products from these 3 brands are better than some of Bose's home theatre systems (in terms of audio) for the price offered. However, they don't really "blow Bose away" as much as I anticipated. For example, if it were a blind test and they had a Bose vs. JBL comparison, there wouldn't be a drastic difference in sound quality, and JBL in particular isn't really that less expensive. 

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post #162 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by GTA Beancounter View Post


I'd put forward that their target customer is someone who wants great sound, has the means to acquire it but not the time to invest in researching their purchase decision. There may be some products Bose offers that perform quite well, I heard their sound dock and it seems pretty decent for what it is. But there are others (Bose TV's, & Acoustimass) that are abysmal for the price being charged.
 

Yeah you're absolutely right. Some of Bose's products (particularly the Lifestyle, Acoustimass and Wave systems) are wildly expensive for what you get. But some of their other systems (including the SoundDock, Bluetooth speakers, Headphones and Cinemate systems) are definitely worth the price. There are less expensive alternatives out there of course, but these are the products from Bose which I believe are the most fairly priced. 

 

Another thing I admire about Bose is their innovation. This is particularly evident in their VideoWave system (Bose TV). Even though Bose claims that they developed the WaveGuide, Audio calibration and PhaseGuide radiators (which I don't think they did), they haven't been applied to an all-in-one TV system. I wouldn't buy the TV myself at the price, but given the limitation of a flat screen panel, they managed to install 16 speakers into producing some pretty good sound in a simple setup that doesn't require speakers and wiring all over the room (and the surround sound effects were pretty cool as well) which is the perfect solution for many people. 

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post #163 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by thejaywalker View Post

There are some stores (excluding the actual "Bose Store") that allow side by side comparisons with other brands (usually Harman/Kardon or Polk Audio). I have done side by side comparisons with Bose and some other alternatives (B&W, JBL and KEF). I was expecting a massive difference in sound quality, and I will admit that these similar products from these 3 brands are better than some of Bose's home theatre systems (in terms of audio) for the price offered. However, they don't really "blow Bose away" as much as I anticipated. For example, if it were a blind test and they had a Bose vs. JBL comparison, there wouldn't be a drastic difference in sound quality, and JBL in particular isn't really that less expensive. 

Perhaps you need your ears cleaned out?tongue.gif

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post #164 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 07:55 PM
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i just want to add that i found a really good replacement for the bose acoustimass , they sound a lot better and unlike bose they are really a product of engineering by people that know a lot of acoustics ...


Klipsch fronts 2xRF-82-II 150W 33Hz-24KHz
center RC-64-II 200W 59Hz-24KHz
sides 2xRS-62-II 150W 50Hz-24KHz
rears 2xRB-81-II 150W 44Hz-24KHz
Yamaha RX-A3040, YST-SW800 Sub 1000W RMS 6 Ohm 18-170 hz / SVS PB13-Ultra 1000W 14-200hz
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post #165 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post


Perhaps you need your ears cleaned out?tongue.gif

That's just my opinion :P

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post #166 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by emerson1 View Post

So any recommendations for an alternative to the Wave® Music System III. I'm talking an all in one cd player system like this. I too dislike Bose and would love for this person to not spend $500 on it, but I had someone ask me about this and I can't say that I found anything that is all in one with a CD player like this. Bose might finally have one up on me frown.gif

If they can handle separate speakers to get better physical separation these could fit the bill:
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post #167 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 08:58 PM
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To me, Bose's marketing tactics is the same as Apple. And yet Apple is widely accepted and praised for their cellular phone products (and some others). They are no better than other smartphones and in some ways inferior. Just brand perception and great marketing strategy.

I have Bose systems in my cars. Counting speakers alone, I have more Bose than any other brands! smile.gif

I listened to alot of Bose sounds at the box stores. And alot of time came away pretty impressed. Of course their kiosk are pretty parameterized and optimally set up for good experience. Hey like an Apple kiosk! biggrin.gif Bose kiosks tend to be near TVs with their 8W tweeters.....
For the average people, this experience seals the deal. It's small, compact, not many wires.... all lead to positive WAF. It's a win-win situation. That or settle for TV speakers. eek.gif
The introduction of soundbar and subwoofer combo makes for a good alternative to HTIB. In some sense, it is an even cleaner implementation.

For me, while I seem to have more Bose products in my life, for HT and Stereo music I draw the line in the sand. I cannot stand the insane colorization of the so-called woofers from HTIBs like Bose and soundbars. Imaging is non-existent. The bass from the woofer is boomy and not authoritative. Then again it isn't a real sub is it?

While I don't hate Bose. I certainly would avoid Bose in areas where it counts. Glad my wife recognizes that too well as long I keep my hi-fi set-up neat and tidy. biggrin.gif
You are way off when it comes to Apple. Apple delivers a superior platform in every way. When the iPhone came out there wasn't a smart phone anywhere even close to it's capabilities. Now, many years later other companies are finally coming out with equally solid options but even as recent as 2-3 years ago the iPhone was way better than all of it's competition. When you start talking about Mac's vs PC's, well, Mac's are no joke and most heavy music and video production is done on Mac's. They are nothing like Bose.
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post #168 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post

i just want to add that i found a really good replacement for the bose acoustimass , they sound a lot better and unlike bose they are really a product of engineering by people that know a lot of acoustics ...


Ha, ha, ha!!! biggrin.gif

Yeah, but wouldn't tape be better acoustically than those screws???
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post #169 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emerson1 View Post

So any recommendations for an alternative to the Wave® Music System III. I'm talking an all in one cd player system like this. I too dislike Bose and would love for this person to not spend $500 on it, but I had someone ask me about this and I can't say that I found anything that is all in one with a CD player like this. Bose might finally have one up on me frown.gif

If they can handle separate speakers to get better physical separation these could fit the bill:

you are aware that sony speakers are made by bose ?


Klipsch fronts 2xRF-82-II 150W 33Hz-24KHz
center RC-64-II 200W 59Hz-24KHz
sides 2xRS-62-II 150W 50Hz-24KHz
rears 2xRB-81-II 150W 44Hz-24KHz
Yamaha RX-A3040, YST-SW800 Sub 1000W RMS 6 Ohm 18-170 hz / SVS PB13-Ultra 1000W 14-200hz
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post #170 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charmerci View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post

i just want to add that i found a really good replacement for the bose acoustimass , they sound a lot better and unlike bose they are really a product of engineering by people that know a lot of acoustics ...

Ha, ha, ha!!! biggrin.gif

Yeah, but wouldn't tape be better acoustically than those screws???

why ? the're made of cardboard just like the bose stuff and they hold suprisingly good.:D 

but yeah i still need to fix this nylon tape mod on it ^^


Klipsch fronts 2xRF-82-II 150W 33Hz-24KHz
center RC-64-II 200W 59Hz-24KHz
sides 2xRS-62-II 150W 50Hz-24KHz
rears 2xRB-81-II 150W 44Hz-24KHz
Yamaha RX-A3040, YST-SW800 Sub 1000W RMS 6 Ohm 18-170 hz / SVS PB13-Ultra 1000W 14-200hz
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post #171 of 227 Old 01-20-2014, 10:49 PM
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you are aware that sony speakers are made by bose ?

Wow, really? Which ones? Certainly not the AR and ES series? Where did you get that information? I didn't find it in a quick web search.
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post #172 of 227 Old 01-21-2014, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by wunderkind View Post

To me, Bose's marketing tactics is the same as Apple. And yet Apple is widely accepted and praised for their cellular phone products (and some others). They are no better than other smartphones and in some ways inferior. Just brand perception and great marketing strategy.

I have Bose systems in my cars. Counting speakers alone, I have more Bose than any other brands! smile.gif

I listened to alot of Bose sounds at the box stores. And alot of time came away pretty impressed. Of course their kiosk are pretty parameterized and optimally set up for good experience. Hey like an Apple kiosk! biggrin.gif Bose kiosks tend to be near TVs with their 8W tweeters.....

I would have to disagree because I love my 15" MacBook Pro retina (MBPr) and I'm no "Apple sheep". I've replaced my iPhone with a Note, but I still have a Mac Mini though I also have a Windows desktop and laptop, as well as a Linux media server (Ubuntu) at home. Yes, Mac's tend to be more expensive like Bose products but there's much to like about them, unlike Bose products. Take my 15" MBPr for example, it has good spec's, a glorious screen (with 2880x1800 resolution!), nice build quality, great OS, and so on. It'd be hard to find a laptop just as nice as that one.

 

Anyway, back to Bose. Didn't really own any Bose stuff myself except for the stereo system in my car, which is actually decent. They have real tweeters! My dad bought an AM 5 a long time ago when I was groing up and we liked it. Then, he bought speakers from brands like Energy, Axiom, Athena, Polk, Paradigm, and Magnepan, which are/were much better at typically lower cost. Interestingly, he still has the AM 5 and uses them as rears in a 7.1 setup. Maybe it's for sentimental reasons.

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post #173 of 227 Old 01-21-2014, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Vital View Post


You are way off when it comes to Apple. Apple delivers a superior platform in every way.

Impossible given that their desktop and laptop computers are just IBM PC clones with BIOS modified to inhibit installing Windows.

Therefore any superiority that may exist is by definition limited to the software, which is pretty much one of the many off-the-shelf Unix systems with a highly enhanced shell and application suite riding on top of it.

Now they do a lot of nifty things with that enhanced shell and application suite, but that is the physically defined scope of their potential for superiority.
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post #174 of 227 Old 01-21-2014, 07:29 AM
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Having been a user of both Windows & Mac, I find I have far fewer aggravations with Mac. They are not perfect by a long ways, but I will not be going back to a Windows system any time soon.
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post #175 of 227 Old 01-21-2014, 07:46 AM
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Having been a user of both Windows & Mac, I find I have far fewer aggravations with Mac. They are not perfect by a long ways, but I will not be going back to a Windows system any time soon.

Nobody in their right mind dispute's Apple's abilities when it comes to human engineering. Of course we have Microsoft working overtime to make themselves look bad with $#@!! POS like Windows 8.x - the logical follow-on to their previous mess-to-the-max Vista.
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Yep, I had my first exposure to 8 trying to help a friend get his new 'puter set up. I won't go there again.mad.gif
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post #177 of 227 Old 01-21-2014, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Marantz guy View Post

Yep, I had my first exposure to 8 trying to help a friend get his new 'puter set up. I won't go there again.mad.gif

LINUX all the way baby!!
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post #178 of 227 Old 01-21-2014, 10:12 AM
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Regardless of what OS you prefer, Apple still uses decent components in their computers. Bose does not. I think that is the point that Vital was making.
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post #179 of 227 Old 01-21-2014, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Impossible given that their desktop and laptop computers are just IBM PC clones with BIOS modified to inhibit installing Windows.

Therefore any superiority that may exist is by definition limited to the software, which is pretty much one of the many off-the-shelf Unix systems with a highly enhanced shell and application suite riding on top of it.

Now they do a lot of nifty things with that enhanced shell and application suite, but that is the physically defined scope of their potential for superiority.


I develop very large enterprise Web apps for a living, and you are correct about Apple. It's full of Intel parts, just like a PC. People become too fanatical about devices (and speakers smile.gif ). They're just tools. You pick the best one for the job. I've been doing this a long time and trust me, that device or software people can't live without will be considered total crap in five years. As long as it does what you want, that's all that matters.

BTW, I use Windows 8.1 at home smile.gif. But then again, I know the shortcuts and tricks that make it so much faster to use than Windows 7 or the Mac. And as Obama might say, "If you don't like Metro, you don't have to use Metro". You can even boot straight to the desktop. However, I use several of the Metro apps.

And in keeping with the thread, my living room speakers, the similar sized, far prettier Mirage Nanosat Prestiges, sound way better than my friend's Bose Acoustimass.
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post #180 of 227 Old 01-21-2014, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by DaJoJo View Post

you are aware that sony speakers are made by bose ?

Are you serious or just joking? If you are serious, please post some proof.
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