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-   -   I don't get the Bose hatred (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/1482067-i-don-t-get-bose-hatred.html)

DSTJersey 07-17-2013 10:30 AM

OK So please don't attack me. I'm in no way an audio noob, just a noob to the forum.

I've been working with music for about 15 years. I've DJed, produced, engineered, mixed CDs, etc. The best speakers I've heard to this date were Yorkville, but Mackies didn't come far behind. I actually never really owned anything Bose besides headphones. My mom had that clock cd radio thing everyone gets.

So now that I'm looking for a home theater the Bose Cinemate GS II or whatever the full name is really attracted my attention. I've heard them in the store before and I love them, and regardless of haters I probably will purchase. They're going for something like $600 now. I get it's not a real subwoofer, more of a module as Bose admits, but between what I want and what my future wife doesn't want (bulkiness all over the room), this seems to fit where I'm at.

I'm just curious how this hatred to Bose started. "No highs, no lows, must be Bose". It seems that people who WANT to be audiophiles are the ones really feeling this quote. Do real audiophiles eventually admit that besides the price tag attached, Bose is actually a decent brand, or is it a hatred till the end?

I understand you can get floor speakers, 7.1, a sick receiver, etc. and will have an absolutely amazing sounding movie-theater like home theater, but for someone looking to get a 2.1 system to keep the wife happy, who hates the look of Soundbars, etc., do audiophiles still attack this?

Just curious to hear opinions.

Ron Alcasid 07-17-2013 10:52 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06YFFqiAw4c

electronicsfana 07-17-2013 10:52 AM

The hatred of Bose is due to the fact that they produce and sell over-priced, sub-par speaker systems. There are much better sound quality speakers from lesser known brands for much more affordable prices. Bose is a great marketing company and that is how they established themselves as having such great sounding speakers. If you really do your research you will see that Bose speakers are nothing more than a $5 paper driver.

Here is a good list of reasons: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081222092752AAECqYE

PipeSurfer 07-17-2013 10:53 AM

Bose is a good brand, the reason why people do not like them, especially audiophiles, is because they heavily market their products and they are said to be overpriced. Same with Beats headphones. You are paying for the name.

DSTJersey 07-17-2013 10:57 AM

I figured as much...thanks for the info...

Youtube won't open at work so I'll check out that link when I get home...

I think the setup is good for a medium sized room with cathedral ceilings, and a fiancé who doesn't want speakers all over (or 4 feet high)...that will come when I get a basement and get a real theater going.

Thanks guys

MrEastSide 07-17-2013 11:31 AM

If compact speakers are what you want, there's far better brands with superior construction and sound characteristics than Bose. There's nothing wrong with small speakers, but surf around the forums a bit. You can do much better for the same price and in a lot of cases, cheaper.

Try any of these for satellite speakers -

Klipsch
Boston
Orb Audio
Yamaha
Mirage

Hell, I'd even take some Sony satellites before Bose. You'll get the same quality as Bose if not better for much cheaper. Get some satellites from one of those companies and an entry level receiver, spend $150 bucks on like a BIC subwoofer and you'll be way ahead of a crappy Bose package. I'm not trying to bash Bose, but it is what it is.

Good luck.

Jay1 07-17-2013 11:38 AM

Its because bose uses the cheapest components possible, in the most gimmicky fashion, without any real consideration for fidelity, and then markets them as the most advanced audio components possible, charges insane prices, and sues any commercial entity that bad mouths them.

Reference_head 07-17-2013 11:53 AM

I have had 2 pairs of bose over the years. (301 & 901s). Both sounded pretty good to my ears.

The cubes are cheap and sound ok. But other brands spend much less on advertising and can offer more for less.

If you want bose im sure you will be happy.

Petden 07-17-2013 11:57 AM

The jist of it is that you have the largest audio company producing some of the worst products possible. The drivers they use are very low quality, the design doesnt make sense and much more. The acoustics module (their bass module) has to reproduce the mid range which means, as the youtube video states, you have stereo mixes coming out as mono let alone the fact that their subwoofer is producing voices. This really doesnt make sense. There was a site that has since been taken down, but they published Bose's measurements and there was a hole in the frequency response from where the speakers stopped and where the sub started. This was around 250hz. I believe the speakers were -10db at this point and the module was rated at like 45-150hz at -6db. Honestly i wouldnt be surprised if you took the cheapest drivers PE offered, put them in a shoe box, didnt use a crossover, and they measured similarly to the bose.

Now to give them credit I believe the wave radio and acoustimas module both use some form of horn loading.

eljaycanuck 07-17-2013 12:09 PM

Quote:
There was a site that has since been taken down, but they published Bose's measurements and there was a hole in the frequency response from where the speakers stopped and where the sub started. This was around 250hz.
The problem with Bose:
Quote:
Bose Acoustimass speakers are only able to produce sound from 46Hz to 13.3kHz at + or - 10.5dB. Bose Acoustimass, Lifestyle, and 3-2-1 systems are not able to meet standard specifications expected by DVD sound producers.

Because of a frequency gap between the bass module and the cube speaker, Bose Acoustimass speakers lose all sound material from 200 to 280Hz, often the frequency range of a human voice. Because the bass module has frequencies as high as 200hz, a user is able to pick out the location of the bass module within a room. The Bose bass module is unable to reproduce frequency ranges below 46Hz while DVDs have bass down to 20hz.

The Bose Acoustimass cube speaker has a frequency range of 280Hz to 13.3kHz at + or - 10.5dB. ... The removal of high frequency ranges will result in a loss of accuracy in DVD and CD material. The large 10dB fluctuation in frequency accuracy results in inaccurate sounds between 280Hz and 13kHz resulting in sound being louder or softer than the original recording.

DSTJersey 07-17-2013 12:13 PM

Thanks for all the responses..i definitely see where it's all coming from.

I guess my main concern is finding a clean looking 2.1 satellite home theater set up for around the same price. We are just moving in to our first house so I'm really not trying to go over $600 on our first home theater. This will be upgraded in the future, but the trouble is just finding the alternate route

eljaycanuck 07-17-2013 12:17 PM

Quote:
I guess my main concern is finding a clean looking 2.1 satellite home theater set up for around the same price. We are just moving in to our first house so I'm really not trying to go over $600 on our first home theater. This will be upgraded in the future ...
Dunno about $600, but how about $718?
- Cambridge Audio S30 ($219, shipped, at Amazon.com)
- SVS SB-1000 or PB-1000 ($499, shipped)

The speakers are compact and well-rated.

The subs are relatively compact and also well-rated. And SVS currently has a promotion on: A 45-day in-home trial w/ free shipping both ways.

When you upgrade, get new mains + CC speaker, and assign the S30s to surround duty.

afrogt 07-17-2013 01:01 PM

Bose makes some stylish systems that will appeal to women and that's a target market most of the other speaker mfrs ignore. They don't want wires, big speakers, bulky receivers and equipment, etc.

I have heard plenty of women ask about a Bose setup for their living room, they don't know any other brands. Shows how powerful their marketing is.

That Cinemate GS II the OP asked about doesn't need a AV Receiver, just an optical out from the TV if all the other devices are connected directly to the TV via HDMI.

I would never buy one but it does have its place.

The Cambridge S30 and SVS sub make a good system, but you still need a receiver too which adds more cost. Definitely wont get all 3 pieces for the cost of the Cinemate GS.

You could buy the S30, a $120-180 Dayton or Bic sub plus an entry level $200-$250 AVR that will blow away the Cinemate though, plus it gives you room to expand later if you want go more than 2.1.

Of course you could buy something like this for less than half price of the Cinemate and it would sound better, and has HDMI inputs!
http://www.goods2purchase.com/onkyo-onkyo-htx22hdx-home-theater-p-5728.html
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003BEDQRQ

Jay1 07-17-2013 01:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Dunno about $600, but how about $718?
- Cambridge Audio S30 ($219, shipped, at Amazon.com)
- SVS SB-1000 or PB-1000 ($499, shipped)

The speakers are compact and well-rated.

The subs are relatively compact and also well-rated. And SVS currently has a promotion on: A 45-day in-home trial w/ free shipping both ways.

When you upgrade, get new mains + CC speaker, and assign the S30s to surround duty.

While that would be a great setup, I think when we are comparing a setup against bose quality we can come down a little bit and still stomp what bose is offering. He would also need some kind of receiver right?

Stick with the Cambridge speakers. Pick up this sub

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-629

And a budget receiver

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-1513-Channel-Through-Receiver/dp/B007R8U5VM/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1374091976&sr=1-2

If for some reason you dont want something that large, or maybe you think it's to complicated, you could always just get a mini tripath amp, and run the speakers thorugh the subs hi/low level inputs, which gets you a super cheap setup.

http://www.amazon.com/Lepai-LP-A68-Digital-Amplifier-Remote/dp/B00721Z1AE/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1374092071&sr=1-4&keywords=mini+amplifier

losservatore 07-17-2013 01:27 PM

you can also check Cambridge sound works and Boston acoustic this are the bose completion in Massachusetts, they have a very similar sound all 3 brands are from Massachusetts.


I was from Massachusetts for 17 years.

Chevypower 07-17-2013 01:35 PM

Insted of spending $600 now and then replacing it later with something else, why not just invest $600 in part of the system you really want? Even if it means buying just the front pair, or just the center? It will sound much better than a make-do 5.1 system.

Tuan 07-17-2013 01:56 PM

If looks are your primary concern, just pickup a quality sound bar and call it a day.

DSTJersey 07-17-2013 02:26 PM

Looks like Cambridge is a favorite here..I'll see if I can put together a wife-approved system

eljaycanuck 07-17-2013 04:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 
While that would be a great setup, I think when we are comparing a setup against bose quality we can come down a little bit and still stomp what bose is offering. He would also need some kind of receiver right?
If an AVR is required, I agree with going the SUB-1200 route in order to leave some money for the AVR, but I'd go with an AVR-1612 (off Amazon.com) over a 1513. It's only $40 more, but it's much better-equipped.

Petden 07-17-2013 04:34 PM

The Klipsch Rw12D is a very good sub for the price too, albeit a bit larger than a sb1000.

Knucklehead90 07-17-2013 10:16 PM

I may consider buying Bose - just as soon as they manage to get a THX certification.

MrEastSide 07-17-2013 11:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuan View Post

If looks are your primary concern, just pickup a quality sound bar and call it a day.

That's another good route that I didn't consider.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post

I may consider buying Bose - just as soon as they manage to get a THX certification.

So you're never buying Bose. biggrin.gif

Transmaniacon 07-18-2013 04:42 AM

I would imagine the new Pioneer soundbar would be a pretty good choice. It has a wireless sub and is $399.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2013/06/26/pioneer-announces-andrew-jones-designed-soundbar-399

Shady195 07-18-2013 05:14 AM

Did you listen to those BOSE speakers in a demo room? Either at a best buy or at a bose store?

Were they playing an actual movie or a ton of demo content?

I've heard bose in 2 ways..

1: I went to a bose store, numerous times with my father who loves bose (can't teach an old dog new tricks tongue.gif love the man to death just doesn't want to listen to me) went into their little room where they show off their speakers. They play nature sounds, some various bose specific content and i will admit, THEY SOUND AMAZING, the first time I ehard them I was like WOW, these little things sound great for what they are

Then I heard them in the second scenarious

2: in someones living room. We were watching a movie, the diaglouge sounded okay, but anyone with a deep voice sounded muffled because their voice was now comming through the acoustamass module. Their voice went from in front of me, off to the side where the module was.

Explosions were harsh, they broke up a bit.. The bass was nearly non existant in any real mannor. Sound was super directional, it had no "image" every speaker seemed like its own source rather than blending in and providing an immersive experiance.


While I'm not super experiance in compact system, I do recall people advovating even these speakers over the bose. They used to retail for nearly a grand if I recall some other members posts correctly..

Energy Take classic 5.1
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001202C44

I believe energy offers a 2.1 setup as well..

Use the extra money to take your wife out to a nice exspensive dinner or buy a more poweful subwoofer..

If you take her out to a nice dinner and talk about how much you saved over the bose.. your chances of getting laid that night are much better

Elihawk 07-18-2013 05:31 AM

If you have to go small, the Cambridge Audio Minx system will be much better than Bose. Not likely a good as the CA s30s, but smaller...

thestumper 07-18-2013 06:17 AM

I don't "hate" Bose - they're entitled to sell and market anything they like, and if they can sell a set of $200 speakers for $1500, then more power to them. I just don't find any value there. As others have said, you can do far better in sound quality and value by looking elsewhere.

You might want to check out the Paradigm Cinema series - the smaller ones are what I would consider "satellite" size. I had a Paradigm Cinema setup for years and it served me VERY well - I just recently reviewed it here on the forums. I've had them for ten years, and the new ones might be better or worse, but I'd have a listen to them if possible. They might have a setup that plays into your budget.

I've also heard good things about Definitive Technologies satellite setup. Just about everyone has some sort of take on the satellite system, Everything already mentioned here is also good. The advice to spend extra on a better sub is definitely worth considering.

Good luck!

MMMorish 07-18-2013 06:51 AM

I can vouch for the Energy 5.1 Take Classic. I installed one in my non-audiophile parents basement and I was pleasantly surprised at the sound quality of the system. Very nice for the money and Amazon has it on sale right now for $279.99. That's an amazing price for that system.

simp1yamazn 07-18-2013 07:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Bose makes some stylish systems that will appeal to women and that's a target market most of the other speaker mfrs ignore. They don't want wires, big speakers, bulky receivers and equipment, etc.

I have heard plenty of women ask about a Bose setup for their living room, they don't know any other brands. Shows how powerful their marketing is.

That Cinemate GS II the OP asked about doesn't need a AV Receiver, just an optical out from the TV if all the other devices are connected directly to the TV via HDMI.

I think you hit the nail on the head. As much as we would like to think that people care about sound quality, they just don't. If it sounds better than the TV speakers then they are happy. What sets Bose apart is ease of use and customer support. We can talk about how simple it is to set up a receiver with only HDMI inputs, 5 satellite speakers, 1 sub, and audyssey room correction but the simple fact is that most people don't want to go through even that much effort. Try explaining a crossover point to 99.5% of consumers and you will get a blank stare with absolutely 0 comprehension. They don't want options, they don't want choices, they don't want to do research. They want it to look good and be unobtrusive. Bose products look good. Their "receiver" that comes with their surroundsound systems is better looking to a non-techie than anything else on the market.

If SQ is not the top priority for you, which for most it is not, then Bose is exactly what you want. Though I can't prove it, I would venture to guess that many people who buy Bose products actually see them as being very high value because their priorities are aesthetics and ease of use.

I don't see a problem with making those types of products. My only issue with Bose is their willingness to attack any reviewer who doesn't write a glowing review of their products. Consumer Reports anyone?

Bazzy 07-18-2013 07:57 AM

Hi,

Here are some alternative to Bose that sound far better & have similar size/form factor:

1) Cambridge Audio Minx
2) Anthony Gallo A'Diva or Nucleus
3) Orb Audio
4) Cabasse
5) KEF E Series
6) Monitor Audio Mass

These are just a few & there are probably quite a few more options available in the US market as well. I currently have the Cambridge Audio Minx (Min20's/Min21's) & they are a world of difference from the Bose. You can get the satellites of your choice & get a decent ID branded subwoofer from the likes of SVS (SB12-NSD/SB1000) etc for even better value/performance.

Bazzy!

losservatore 07-18-2013 09:11 AM

Don't mistake Cambridge soundworks from Massachusetts with Cambridge audio from UK.
2 different company's.


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