Which speaker interconnects to use for my $26,000 speakers? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 107 Old 09-21-2013, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by excusemaker View Post

ok... since speaker wire doesn't need to be shielded then I suggest we all clean up all our wiring in our houses and offices by running electrical wire inside the same conduit as our speaker wires. it will save time and energy. SHIELDING ISN'T NEEDED FOR SPEAKER WIRE? ok... I suppose its not needed for any communication wire is it?
I explained why speaker cable does not need to be, and should not be, shielded. if you disagree tell us why.
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monster cable is far from high end when it comes to speaker wire
It is priced too high, so that might qualify it as 'high end', although as far as performance is concerned there's no such thing as high end, only high priced.

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post #92 of 107 Old 09-21-2013, 04:44 PM
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Just go for Kimber cables. Copper cables are always better just to be safe.

Silver cables if not done correctly will be extremely bright and harsh at times. Although good ones will somewhat give you that tube sound.
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post #93 of 107 Old 09-21-2013, 07:47 PM
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Just go for Kimber cables. Copper cables are always better just to be safe.
Kimber is ludicrously over priced. Copper is the preferred material, that's why 95% or so of cables are made of it. Kimber gets their copper out of the same mines that Monoprice does, so there's nothing to be gained by paying Kimber prices over Monoprice's.
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Silver cables if not done correctly will be extremely bright and harsh at times. Although good ones will somewhat give you that tube sound.
There is no difference in the sound of silver versus copper. Silver has 5% better conductivity than copper, but that does not affect the sound whatsoever. To get the exact same result with copper as silver just use 5% larger gauge or 5% shorter length, and in the process save 98% on the price.

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post #94 of 107 Old 09-21-2013, 08:38 PM
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Discount? For 26k they damn well better include the wire and your choice of connectors if desired. Interconnects my butt, it's speaker wire.

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post #95 of 107 Old 09-21-2013, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Kimber is ludicrously over priced. Copper is the preferred material, that's why 95% or so of cables are made of it. Kimber gets their copper out of the same mines that Monoprice does, so there's nothing to be gained by paying Kimber prices over Monoprice's.
There is no difference in the sound of silver versus copper. Silver has 5% better conductivity than copper, but that does not affect the sound whatsoever. To get the exact same result with copper as silver just use 5% larger gauge or 5% shorter length, and in the process save 98% on the price.

You have got to be kidding to think copper and silver sound the same. Ones that are made of copper but use silver connecters might sound close, but 99% silver vs 99% copper will sound different.

Rule of thumb is always get THICK as possible cables.
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post #96 of 107 Old 09-21-2013, 09:13 PM
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Looks like we have a newbie who thinks he knows more than he actually does. This will be fun.

For every new thing I learn, I forget two things I used to know.
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post #97 of 107 Old 09-21-2013, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by NAIM101 View Post

You have got to be kidding to think copper and silver sound the same. Ones that are made of copper but use silver connecters might sound close, but 99% silver vs 99% copper will sound different.

Rule of thumb is always get THICK as possible cables.

You have to stop while you're behind.
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post #98 of 107 Old 09-21-2013, 09:49 PM
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Looks like we have a newbie who thinks he knows more than he actually does. This will be fun.

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post #99 of 107 Old 09-21-2013, 10:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by beaveav View Post

Looks like we have a newbie who thinks he knows more than he actually does. This will be fun.

Commsysman 2.0

He did get a succinct response to his first post...
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post #100 of 107 Old 09-21-2013, 11:51 PM
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removed wrong place

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. "can we make it louder "?
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post #101 of 107 Old 09-21-2013, 11:54 PM
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pls remove

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. "can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -
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post #102 of 107 Old 09-21-2013, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

No uninformed oddiophool you mean, who apparently have no clue what they listen to is mixed on in the first place:


I wonder what they think all those knobs are for? wink.gif

funny ... true also ! biggrin.gif

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. "can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -
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post #103 of 107 Old 09-22-2013, 12:01 AM
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CV580DRVR wrote
Gee Whiz Golly. Imagine that delicate signal surviving the trek through all sorts of crappy processors, and miles of spool wire on it's way to your CD/DVD.....only to be LOST by the last 3 feet of interconnect.

I smell poop, so I'm gonna throw a B.S. Flag on that play!!:)quality is easy to get. You don't have to pay a lot either.

CV

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riginally Posted by holt7153 View Post

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Originally Posted by beaveav View Post

Looks like we have a newbie who thinks he knows more than he actually does. This will be fun.

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+1 tbms up
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Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

He did get a succinct response to his first post...
+1 tbms up
Sometimes after a while all you can do is help those that want help and leave the others alone .......... but that's no fun biggrin.gif

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. "can we make it louder "?
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- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -
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post #104 of 107 Old 09-22-2013, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by excusemaker View Post

I think technology has changed a lot of things when it comes to the need for special speaker wires. if you shop by specs instead of a name brand. the main issue I think is resistance and shielding. the thicker the wire gauge and the more strands you have the less resistance you are going to have. also you want a good thick outer jacket or conduit over the actual speaker wires themselves to properly shield the wires. the speaker connections is where its critical I think. some are soldered on to the speaker wire and there's different types of solder that can varying affects on the cable performance. I personally like the monster tips (banana tips), because there's no soldering and there's no set screw holding the wire in the connector. the monster tips are designed where you can mechanically make contact with all the individual strands onto the connector and then the top piece is screwed on over it. its the best connection I've seen and the one that makes the most sense. the downside to using these connectors are their price at $25 per 2 pair. that's only enough to do a single speaker wire.

I saw on a SEWELL website what I believe to be these exact same banana tip connectors by MONSTER CABLE only they said SEWELL on them instead. I have a feeling that MONSTER gets them from SEWELL and relables them and packages them as a MONSTER product. its just a suspicion of mine based on what I saw, but both connectors are identical from what I could see. the difference? PRICE! the ones by sewell cost less than half of what monster charges for theirs. is it worth buying sewell to find out? I think so. I bought most of my MONSTER TIPS used on ebay before I ever saw the ones by sewell so that's why I haven't bought the sewell yet.

I would be very interested in comparing your $300 cables to the ones i'm using. I highly doubt there will be any detectable difference, but I could be wrong.

I get the insulation and resistance thing to a point but resistance of copper wire is determined by gauge and length pretty much copper is copper. I would disagree on the shielding thing for purposes of speaker wire it's just not needed but I think others here have already beaten that horse , it's just magic marketing. IMO
Even the telco pots line my u verse comes in on from the vrad on is not shielded ?works fine eek.gif
RF wiring is whole different thing altogether,and a lot of internal RF wiring is not always shielded different discussion .

. I never use high end cables I've got some decent stuff pro studio gear and HT , IMO Belden speaker wire is pretty good so are inexpensive monoprice cable
So is Home Depot zip cord and their own speaker wire .

16 gauge UL household lamp cord will easily carry 500 wpc @ 8 ohm @ 30ft continuously with only a 1.9 v drop and 0.26 db signal loss at 30 ft nothing you can hear for sure . Nothing wrong with 14- awg though.and 12 ga in certain applications where wattage (lots) and distance or in wall wiring may warrant it .lots of on line calculators on the web .
http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/speakerwireselectorassistant.swf


IMO C11000 -99.9% regular copper wire is fine. The more expensive C10200 99.95% and C10100 99.99%pure OFC wire offer no better electrical conductivity
for audio purposes line level or speaker just more expense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen-free_copper But I've only been screwing around with electronics for over 40 yrs computers almost as long better to put your money in source components or speakers .


Maybe SEWELL gets their connectors from Monster or maybe they both get them from Monoprice or maybe the same Chinese (or other) OEM you just never know these days !
In any event FWIW Monster has been around a lot longer and I agree they are overpriced .

Sewell direct /parent company Sewell development corp. NAICS code is not manufacturing they are a re seller much like Monoprice they do not make anything (not uncommon in this business.) or a lot of others. http://sewelldirect.com/ no affil.
That's not to say their products are not good or priced reasonably only that they are buying their branded and other products from OEMs.

it's probably safe to assume that Monster Cable Products Inc. *may at least or in part have a similar business model

You can only help those that want to be helped and leave the rest alone !

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- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -
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post #105 of 107 Old 09-22-2013, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by NAIM101 View Post

You have got to be kidding to think copper and silver sound the same. Ones that are made of copper but use silver connecters might sound close, but 99% silver vs 99% copper will sound different. Rule of thumb is always get THICK as possible cables.
I make my living as a professional acoustical engineer and loudspeaker designer. When it comes to engineering issues, I never kid around.
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Looks like we have a newbie who thinks he knows more than he actually does
Another example of someone trying to give an expert opinion without first becoming an expert. rolleyes.gif
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post #106 of 107 Old 09-22-2013, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by NAIM101 View Post

You have got to be kidding to think copper and silver sound the same. Ones that are made of copper but use silver connecters might sound close, but 99% silver vs 99% copper will sound different.

Rule of thumb is always get THICK as possible cables.
I would really like to see you provide facts to back that claim.
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post #107 of 107 Old 09-22-2013, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by NAIM101 View Post

You have got to be kidding to think copper and silver sound the same. Ones that are made of copper but use silver connecters might sound close, but 99% silver vs 99% copper will sound different.

Rule of thumb is always get THICK as possible cables.

Quote:
You have got to be kidding to think copper and silver sound the same

By the same logic does food taste any better with silver dinnerware as opposed to maybe stainless? Oh yea and some one has to polish the silver not cool.gif
I'll take my chances with stainless:D
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Rule of thumb is always get THICK as possible cables.
So am to I understand that I should be using 12 awg or maybe even 0 awg wire on my 2.1 powered desk top computer speakers (thick as possible right ? ) eek.gif
geez I think I gypped they got maybe 18-24awg wire ................. but what does Sony know anyway ? I bet they even used copper wire mad.gif

In case you missed it take a look at this I would bet it was written by an engineer http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/speakerwireselectorassistant.swf

NAIM101 or anyone else If you don't believe us maybe read up on the subject not advertising or magazine hype either, but rather some peer recognized scientific publications ? or better yet , Roger Russell from McIntosh audio Labs (you have heard of them no? ) has quite a bit to say on the subject (Roger was former Director of Acoustic Research for McIntosh Labs) oh and he discusses OFC /silver wire and power cords also] he is a proponent of zip cord or even 16awg lamp cord used correctly , he also pretty much agrees with Bill and others here and has this to say about silver wire "Silver is more expensive but there is no listening difference, " He has verifiable electrical measurements and wave forms and and DBX blind testing results posted there also, pretty much anybody that is not an engineer already and is at all serious about audio should read this .
In any event Russel says you can't hear wire but what does he know anyway ?[/B http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

here is Roger Russell speaker wire /length/ gauge chart it's widley accepted http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable

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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

I make my living as a professional acoustical engineer and loudspeaker designer. When it comes to engineering issues, I never kid around.
Another example of someone trying to give an expert opinion without first becoming an expert. rolleyes.gif

I'll put my money with the professional advice AND he is giving it freely for nothing ! I'm just saying I would think it smart to take advantage of it

Instead of using silver for speaker wire anybody would be better served to put silver in the bank, actually maybe not sell it while you can, it peaked in 2011 and is trending down now just like gold!
Maybe put some money on twitter after the IPO ? instead of buying silver wire .

Personally I've learned a lot from engineers over the years I would think it foolish not to take advantage when the opportunity arises !
I wouldn't automatically (probably never) assume I knew more than an engineer unless he was trying to sell me expensive cables (not likely)
I've stripped a lot wire over the years stranded wire and solid wire (same size /type/#strands ) with but a few exceptions pretty much each looks the same with insulation off .

Pretty much any same gauge wire from Belden ,Monster,Cardas Golden Presence, Maple Shade , Nordost ,Home depot ,or maybe Shenzhen ADP Cables Co., Ltd. of China ,solid or stranded is going to sound alike.


There is a lot of verifiable proven science going back over 100 yrs regarding wires just not expensive audiophile speaker wires or power cords !





You can only help those that want to be helped and leave the rest alone !

But then some people just don't know when to give it up:D I will provide this link once again http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen-free_copper


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