Genelec (8040, 8030) vs Adam (A77X, A7X, A5X) for Home Theater - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Genelec (8040, 8030) vs Adam (A77X, A7X for home theater)
ADAM | A7X | A5X | A5X | $2750 1 20.00%
Genelec | 8040 | 8030 | 8030 | $4200 1 20.00%
ADAM | A7X | A7X | A5X | $3000 0 0%
Genelec | 8040 | 8040 | 8030 | $4600 3 60.00%
ADAM | A7X | A7X | A7X | $3400 0 0%
ADAM | A77X | A7X | A7X | $4600 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 5. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 39 Old 08-02-2013, 11:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Folks,

I need your help finalizing options for a 5.1ch Home-theater in my aptmt (15’ x 16’ Living room open to a 11’ x 11’ Dining room, ceiling height is 10’, flooring is polished marble, walls are brick with cement plaster - layout attached 3BHK layout.jpg 1045k .jpg file .
Location: I'm an American expat based in Bangalore, India and that means I fewer options to consider and there is no "used" market to speak of and imported things in general cost nearly double here compared to the base US prices.
WAF: "Any darned thing which is...Not too big, Not too loud. Not too ugly."

Usage will be about 70% movies - 30% music.
All videos (avi, mp4, mpg, mkv, divx etc) and music (mp3) files are on hard-disk and will be played via VLC player on the PC, all the speakers will be directly connected to the 5.1ch sound card on the PC using XLR (if available) or through RCA-XLR jack).

After considering various brands and based on my budget I've narrowed down my choices to Genelec vs ADAM:

Right now the brand perception/reputation, performance, build quality, cabinet material & shielding, features and the halo effect of their higher-end products on the consumer line, endorsements by great musicians/studios and surprisingly even on looks - I'm leaning towards Genelecs... the ADAM of course offers comparable performance at an incredible price to performance ratio... and the A77X is a 3 way 7" active speaker for the price of a two way active 7" from Genelec. ADAM has come this far also based on studio cred... but mainly due to Price/Perf and after vanquishing many worthy competitors like Focal, Dynaudio, Neumann, Mackies, Emotiva, KRK, Behringer, RCF, Tannoy, M-Audio etc... If ADAM were to have offered slightly better looks and a magnetically shielded aluminum cabinet - I would've gone with them no doubt...

Since this is a decision I will have to live with for a decade or more (I don't like the idea of selling and trading-up etc... besides there is no market for used hi-fi pro level equipment in India that I know of)

The following list is in ascending order of base price ranging from about $2750 to $5200 (excluding subwoofer and before taxes, customs-duties, shipping, installation etc)

Please enter your vote (and suggestions/reasons if any):

Options with same speakers for LCR and same/smaller speakers for Surrounds:

Make| Left,Right | Center | Surrounds | Price (US$)

ADAM | A7X | A7X | A5X | $3000
ADAM | A7X | A7X | A7X | $3400
Genelec | 8040 | 8040 | 8030 | $4600
ADAM | A77X | A77X | A7X | $5200 - would be nice but goes way over budget

Options with same speakers for LR and different Center or Surrounds (due to budget considerations):

Make| Left,Right | Center | Surrounds | Price (US$)

ADAM | A7X | A5X | A5X | $2750
ADAM | A7X | A77X | A5X | $ 3600
Genelec | 8040 | 8030 | 8030 | $4200
ADAM | A77X | A7X | A7X | $4600

For the subs: I would like to hear write-in suggestions. Subs that will suit the above apatmt and speaker setup for a max budget of $1000.
Subs with freq. response from 20Hz to 120Hz with not too high powered amps, very low distortion and should meet WAF and NAF (not too loud or rattling etc).

Thanks in advance for all the votes and responses.
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post #2 of 39 Old 08-03-2013, 12:49 AM
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I can't imagine those 8" ADAM or Genelec subs will be any use in a space that big. Look into the Power Sound Audio XV-15.

If you need bass management, have you looked into the Emotiva UMC-200? Or are you using an AVR?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I can't imagine those 8" ADAM or Genelec subs will be any use in a space that big. Look into the Power Sound Audio XV-15.

If you need bass management, have you looked into the Emotiva UMC-200? Or are you using an AVR?

I realize the subs may be under-powered but I have to consider pesky WAF and NAF.
why spend on a big sub-woofer - if it never gets to spread its wings...

I was looking to avoid the processor and receiver completely (pretty much had to because the money is going towards the speakers and I'm already over 200% of original budget).

That is why I'm looking for subs with bass management.

I'm also looking for a PC sound-card with 5.1 ch balanced XLR output - is there anything out there?
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post #4 of 39 Old 08-03-2013, 01:41 AM
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Those are some nice choices and you'll get super accurate sound no matter which route you go.

If you are doing mostly movies, I don't know if active studio monitors will be the best choice. If you must go the active route, there is also the Emotiva Stealth 6 or 8. You can get 5 of them for under $3200 right now which is $550 off of the regular price. They dig deeper and put out significantly more volume than the other speaker you listed for the times when no one is home and you can crank them. IMO this is important for movies, especially if you want a clear midrange and a seamless transition to you subwoofer.

For the speakers you list I have to cast my vote for the Genelec 8040's. I'm a huge fan of Genelecs. They are clear and very very accurate as long as you high pass them. However I think they are just plain ugly. Not so much WAF compared to the other choices. I have also heard the Genelec sub. Don't get it. It is not worth the money. I could barely hear the difference with and without the sub.

I don't think I've seen a sound card with 5.1 balanced connections.

The UMC-200 mentioned above has a great parametric EQ and excellent bass management options.

If you need a small sub, consider a second hand JL fathom 110. It will wipe the floor with Genelec sub...

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post #5 of 39 Old 08-03-2013, 03:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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@dannybenz - thanks for your vote and suggestions and for warning me about the Genelec subs... The subs alone around $2100 and are the main culprits breaking my budget. Any other subs that perform equally of better in the $1000 or below range would be nice.

Thanks for the suggestion of Emotiva - just began looking at their speakers. Internet direct and lower prices. Tweeters look similar to ADAM.
Which is the higher end - couldn't tell based on their prices?
Stealth 6,8 or the Airmotiv 5,6?
what is the difference between the Stealth and Airmotiv series?
The one issue here is - I'm based in Bangalore India and ordering internet direct may prove to be troublesome with customs etc...


@cel4145 - again thanks for the heads-up on the subs...the Genelecs were overpriced anyway... but dealer insists they are the most accurate and tightest subwoofers around... I will go ahead and remove the subs listed from the options for the voting and just ask for write-in candidates on the sub...
Power Sound Audio XV-15 - looks awesome - which of their models come with base management that can take at least 5.1 channels of balanced XLR or unbalanced RCA input
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post #6 of 39 Old 08-03-2013, 08:04 AM
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I've never heard of a subwoofer with 5.1 bass management built in. If you find the soundcard you are looking for, I would imagine it will have some kind of bass management. Better 5.1 soundcards without XLR output generally do. Since you are trying to save money by skipping the processor or AVR, my guess is you'll have to skip the XLR soundcard idea, too.

As for the 8" sub, you might need to turn it off or turn it down if you do decide to run your system loud. If calibrated correctly with the other speakers, an 8" sub is likely to get distressed in such a large space. Not good for the sub, and even if it doesn't damage the sub, the bass will sound like crap. And not to mention that 8" subs lack good deep extension.

However, I do question the logic of going active without a processor or AVR because of the lack of room correction software. Studio monitors aren't going to achieve a flat response in a room without room treatments and/or some room correction. Then there are features like Audyssey Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ which would help with NAF. It seems like someone sold you on one principle--that active speakers can be better than passive speakers--without consideration that an HT setup is a whole system design where many different factors are important to consider.

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post #7 of 39 Old 08-03-2013, 08:11 AM
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Ok, first off, I seriously doubt you are going to find a sound card with 5.1 balanced connections, but I could be wrong, although highly unlikely. In my personal opinion, you should just go with a receiver that is small and nice looking. Something such as a Marantz SR1604. That is a slim nice looking receiver. Even if you find a balanced sound card with active speakers, you will stil have wires making a mess, plus you will have to have a wall outlet for each speaker. Not ideal in your situation.

I also recommend using a nice bookshelf speaker on some nice stands as that would have a very high WAF, if done right. I can personally recommend a pair of Sierra-1's with a Sierra-1 center from Ascend Acoustics, or a slightly less performing but better looking Paradigm Studio 20's.
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post #8 of 39 Old 08-03-2013, 08:28 AM
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For a sound card, look into the Creative Sound Blaster Z Series ZXR. I would imagine (double check) that it has bass management as part of the DSP. Here's a review: http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/soundblaster_zxr_review.html

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post #9 of 39 Old 08-03-2013, 10:20 AM
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The Emotiva Airmotivs are priced per PAIR whereas the Stealths' price is for a SINGLE speaker.

Another thing to note if you are using active speakers with a soundcrd is that the computer's volume control may not be lossless and you would have to control the volume on each speaker by adjusting the gain knob on top of having to turn each one on individually. For a two channel setup this might not be too big of a hassle, but for a surround setup it might get annoying having to do that every time you want to change the volume without losing bits of audio data.

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post #10 of 39 Old 08-03-2013, 01:02 PM
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Gsnr,

I actually work in Audio Engineering. Bit of trivia when looking at subwoofers. Most movies are mixed to a reference level of 83 db. This is from the reference standard Dolby's Ioan Allen proposed back in the 1970's

Genelec's are actually used in a TON of movie mixing rooms in the pro audio world. So those movies you watch actually had their soundtracks done on Genelecs. Movie Studios using Genelec include Sony Pictures, Pixar, LucasFilm etc... They are also used in the monitoring booth for the Grammy's.

The Genelec's have the 5.1 Bass Management built in. I recently installed a Genelec 8030 5.1 with 7060 sub set up for a business in a room that was 20K cubic feet. You can hear the system going from 70 feet away with the door open. It isn't setup for movie watching but it puts out enough bass for a room 10 times the suggested size. And that isn't even pushing it. If you are anywhere close to Michigan I'd be happy to let you check out the system. I have the 8020, 8030, 8240 monitors and the 7050 Also you can get a Genelec 6010 5.1 Setup for around $2495 and a 8020 5.1 setup for $3895 including subwoofers. I must stress audition the speakers in your own home. That is the only way to evaluate a speaker set up.

Sweetwater has those genelec 5.1 setups and also might I mention their return policy is great for home theater.

Sweetwater ""No Hassle" Return Policy:
We want you to be completely happy with your purchase from Sweetwater. If you are not satisfied with any product, you may return it for a refund of the purchase price, an in-house credit, or exchange for another product within a fair amount of time from the shipping date (30 days or so). If your purchase was eligible for Free Shipping, the shipping cost will be deducted from your credit or refund.

Returns must be in the complete and original packaging with all accessories and complete documentation (Owner's Manual, warranty card, quick start guides etc.), show no signs of wear or use and include a Return Authorization number or be subject to a restocking fee. Please see "Non-returnable Items" below for a list of items that do not apply to this policy."

Here are the links to those prices. Now bear in mind they don't charge tax on you.... OR Shipping... So these are the set prices you'd pay. End of story out the door. (No I don't work for them)

Genelec 6010 5.1 $2495 35 hz subwoofer output. Note: The Genelec 6010 Series uses RCA connections.
Genelec 8020 5.1 $3895 25 hz subwoofer output.
You can also do a 7060 Sub with 5 Genelec 8020's from sweetwater for $5194 19 hz subwoofer output.
If the 19 Hz is a hard sticking point.
You can also do a 7060 Sub with 5 Genelec 6010's from sweetwater for $4349 19 hz subwoofer output.

You can even do a 6.1 setup with a 7060 Sub with 6 Genelec 6010's from sweetwater for $4699 19 hz subwoofer output.

For Audio Critical Theater installs the 6010 is rated for rooms of up to 2000 cubic feet. As is the 5040A subwoofer.

GSNR: As for a reference mastering movie suite quality audio card to run your setup. I'd suggest a LynxTWO-B. It offers 6 channels of analog output. They can be found easily online for $899 and lynx converters are used in movie and music rooms worldwide.


Also if you ever want to sell them. A pro audio speaker is going to hold it's value consistently compared to most home audio speakers which are the equivalent of cars as you drive them off the lot!

Frankly, if it were me I'd go for the following setups and my logic.

Genelec 8020 5.1 for $3895 if you can give up the extra six hertz. The bottom A key of a piano is 27.5 hz and a 7050 Sub goes to 25 so all music material is covered. (rare exception for classical piano using a bosendorfer piano or lowest notes of organs and tubas. But these are well below the threshold of human hearing. All they will do is reinforce harmonics in frequencies above that.

7060 Sub with 5 Genelec 6010's from sweetwater for $4349 will get you your 19 hz and be under the price you wanted to be for speakers alone.

And hitting your 19hz requirement and the $4700 cap for speakers. You can do the 6.1 Genelec setup with a 7060 Sub with 6 Genelec 6010's from sweetwater for $4699

I'd spend any savings you had on sub and speakers and treat your room. Your room is highly reflective and boxy. That will make any system you go with sound worse than it is. Genelecs will sound good in an untreated room. I've installed them in a bowling alley before! Acoustically what you are going to get from the Genelecs is a more comprehensive enveloping sound field that you won't get with a more directional speaker like a Focal or Adam. I've use all three of the brands over the last 15 yrs. Focal is a recent entry into the pro audio sector so they've not gotten as much penetration as Genelec has since the 1970's. They are excellent speakers and I'd rank them above adams, The adam's uses a ribbon tweeter which is a bit more harsh to some in it's upper frequencies. Focal is a beautiful speaker maker but their pro line is the only one I'd consider because they overprice their home line for the same tech found in their pro line.
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post #11 of 39 Old 08-03-2013, 01:10 PM
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Great post

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post #12 of 39 Old 08-03-2013, 02:21 PM
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Thanks Danny!

Also I'd suggest the following regarding whatever speaker is chosen you buy the same identical model. You will get the best surround sound effect that way.

I also wanted to add before I got too far past. I was looking through my manuals and found this passage for you.

You said your room is "(15’ x 16’ Living room open to a 11’ x 11’ Dining room, ceiling height is 10’, flooring is polished marble, walls are brick with cement plaster" The other thing I was looking for was documentation to verify what I wanted to say. From the Genelec Theater setup and Design Manual they also state that "Conversely, if the room is minimally furnished and has many hard surfaces with little absorption (although that would be a rarity in a dedicated home theater), then it may be possible to step down a model in the range. Such a room will tend to be highly reflective and support the loudspeakers’ output, so some adjustment of the Room Response Controls will be necessary"

Right now the Genelecs you chose were kind of oversized for room if you were to use the living room only the 8040 and 8030 are kind of a bit large. The largest I'd go is the 8020.

Sadly the room with the best ratio that is closest to the Dolby Suggestion of Recommended Room ratios is probably the master bedroom. It would make for one hell of an alarm clock! wink.gif

The Dolby Labs Suggestion on Room Ratio is a room Height 1.00 Width 1.49 Length 2.31

Some of your bedrooms in the apartment layout might be better choices for sound performance if you have the flexibility of choice. You could also place the HTPC in a closet for sound isolation of the components.

I have added a diagram of the ITU Surround Sound Speaker and Sub Placement for Surround Sound Monitoring.

This should help you visualize where the speakers should be going. I'd suggest using floor stands given the open wall to the kitchen.
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post #13 of 39 Old 08-03-2013, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterMacC View Post

The Genelec's have the 5.1 Bass Management built in. I recently installed a Genelec 8030 5.1 with 7060 sub set up for a business in a room that was 20K cubic feet.

That Genelec 7060 is a $2500 subwoofer. LOL

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GSNR, I wanted to mention that the Lynx Two B has the following which are useful for a HTPC. "A single digital in and out in either AES-EBU or S/PDIF format which also supports Dolby AC3 and DTS-format signals, along with timecode in and out, a very-low-jitter internal sample clock output, and a sync input, which is also capable of being locked to NTSC or PAL video signals." If you like to tweak it's a AV tweaker's dream card.

Analogue inputs: four (A model), two (B model), six (C model), electronically balanced or unbalanced, using female XLR connectors on flying leads.
• Analogue outputs: four (A model), six (B model), two (C model), electronically balanced or unbalanced, using male XLR connectors on flying leads.
• Analogue I/O levels: +4dBu nominal (+20dBu max), or -10dBV nominal (+6dBV max), software-selectable.
• Input impedance: 24k(omega) balanced, 12k(omega) unbalanced.
• Output impedance: 100(omega) balanced, 50(omega) unbalanced.
• A-D converters: AKM AK5394 24-bit.
• D-A converters: Crystal CS4396 24-bit.
• Dynamic range: 115dBA (input), 116dBA (output).
• Signal-to-noise ratio: 114dBA (input), 116dBA (output).
• Frequency response: 20Hz to 20kHz, +0/-0.05dB at 44.1kHz.
• Input THD + noise: 0.0006%, 22Hz to 22kHz.
• Output THD + noise: 0.001%, 22Hz to 22kHz.
• Supported bit depths: 8, 16, 24, and 32.
• Supported analogue sample rates: 8kHz to 200kHz with high resolution adjustment.
• Digital I/O: AES-EBU or S/PDIF, transformer-coupled, on XLR flying lead connectors.
• Supported digital sample rates: 32kHz, 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, and 96kHz.
• Word clock: in and out using BNC connectors on flying leads.
• SMPTE timecode I/O: LTC in and out using BNC connectors on flying leads, supporting 24, 25, 29.97, and 30 frame rates (drop and non-drop).
• Sample-rate conversion: supports conversion ratios up to 3:1 on digital input, with 128dB dynamic range.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I can't imagine those 8" ADAM or Genelec subs will be any use in a space that big.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

That Genelec 7060 is a $2500 subwoofer. LOL

The 7050 actually for it's size gives quite a kick.
Genelec 7050 Test

You'd love the big daddy of their subs I bet.
Genelec 7073

Here is a cheaper 7060 Genelec 7060 $1699

Genelec 7050 for $699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterMacC View Post

The 7050 actually for it's size gives quite a kick.
Genelec 7050 Test

That's pretty weak output for a $700 sub. The PSA XV-15 I already recommended slays it on output and has much more linear response from 20hz to 100hz. Illka also talked about the problems with compression and distortion on the 7050B: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/981-genelec-7050b.html#post14622.

Like most subs from traditional speakers companies (both pro and home audio), the Genelec subs just seem overpriced to me for what one gets in comparison to subs from Power Sound Audio, HSU Research, Rythmik Audio, SVS Audio, and Outlaw Audio.

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@PeterMacC
Simply amazed at your detailed and thoughtful response - with an image for speaker placements...
the amount of effort and thought put into it
all for... little more than the feeling of sharing your knowledge...
I gez its a lot like our under appreciated and low paid teachers - who serve without

may be my dealer was/is trying to recommend the biggest system he could sell and had completely ruled out the 6000 series suggesting it was too small. He said he has a 8030 setup at his own house and feels it is just about enough...

I'm now 99% sold on the Genelecs and may go for G Four and G Three .. for their XLR + RCA inputs and glossy finish...

Focal is still in the running as the prices are comparable to Genelec.

I can't buy used as I've relocated to India...

and for the sound card reco... (any other cards with less features and lower price?)
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post #18 of 39 Old 08-03-2013, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterMacC View Post

Thanks Danny!

Also I'd suggest the following regarding whatever speaker is chosen you buy the same identical model. You will get the best surround sound effect that way.

I also wanted to add before I got too far past. I was looking through my manuals and found this passage for you.

You said your room is "(15’ x 16’ Living room open to a 11’ x 11’ Dining room, ceiling height is 10’, flooring is polished marble, walls are brick with cement plaster" The other thing I was looking for was documentation to verify what I wanted to say. From the Genelec Theater setup and Design Manual they also state that "Conversely, if the room is minimally furnished and has many hard surfaces with little absorption (although that would be a rarity in a dedicated home theater), then it may be possible to step down a model in the range. Such a room will tend to be highly reflective and support the loudspeakers’ output, so some adjustment of the Room Response Controls will be necessary"

Right now the Genelecs you chose were kind of oversized for room if you were to use the living room only the 8040 and 8030 are kind of a bit large. The largest I'd go is the 8020.

Sadly the room with the best ratio that is closest to the Dolby Suggestion of Recommended Room ratios is probably the master bedroom. It would make for one hell of an alarm clock! wink.gif

The Dolby Labs Suggestion on Room Ratio is a room Height 1.00 Width 1.49 Length 2.31

Some of your bedrooms in the apartment layout might be better choices for sound performance if you have the flexibility of choice. You could also place the HTPC in a closet for sound isolation of the components.

I have added a diagram of the ITU Surround Sound Speaker and Sub Placement for Surround Sound Monitoring.

This should help you visualize where the speakers should be going. I'd suggest using floor stands given the open wall to the kitchen.

where is that floorplan from? I have seen the exact one before and thought it was nice.

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post #19 of 39 Old 08-03-2013, 09:31 PM
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GSNR,

Save you a bit of time. Also few areas to save money. Genelec stands are made for them by Konig Meyer. And they are usually cheaper. Also the pro audio line is cheaper than going through a home audio dealer.

Your dealer is going to upsell. The 6010 and 8020s for that room size are totally fine. Read this guide. It will help you navigate your home theater setup as well as keep your dealer honest.

I've got six 8030s, Five 8020s, three 7050B subs covering an area with seating for over 230 people and there isn't a bad spot in the place. When I was doing the install, and the system turned on I had carpenters stopping what they were doing to listen to the radio over the speakers as they were shocked as the area those eleven speakers and three subwoofers were covering was 2016 cubic feet. In contrast your living room is 2440 cubic feet. Another area in that building is a 90 seat restaurant and it has five 8020 speakers covering that area and the bartenders and serving staff ask it to be turned down as it can be too loud sometimes.

Here are some quotes from within AVS and some links to reviews and PDF's of articles. These should help you keep your dealer from overselling you on the speakers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genelec Man View Post

Hello,

I have installed many Genelec systems & highly recommend. The small 6020/5050 is wonderful as long as it's in a small room. In a 14 x 11 it was just fine. I like the bass management features it offers for the front channels. It sounded huge and controlled. The sub was amazing for it's size. The 8030 would be the next step up. I installed 5.1 with the larger 7070 sub (12 ") & was excellent. Soundood is correct in that they are nearfield monitors. They do a fantastic job however in typical HT setups. I have had 8050's in a 14 x 24 room (treated) & worked great. Take a look at the recommended speaker/room size charts offered by Genelec. The difference between the pro & home (recommended spkr for room size & distance) is interesting. The same speaker on the HT chart allows for greater distance & room size. BTW 99% of the Genelec's are identical pro vs. HT. Difference is usually the HT version would include an RCA as well as XLR input. Example: HT312 is = 1037C.

Exception would be HT206 HT208(1030,1031). The newer 8000 series on the pro side is much better in my opinion. 8040, 8050. The 8000 series has trickled over to the smaller guys like the 6020 which is an 8020.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvih View Post

I must say I was rather impressed with a 5x6010A speakers + 1x5040A sub setup at a recent HIFI fair. Never thought it was possible to get sound that good from a system that small. Audio DVDs sounded great. And in two-channel listening I actually preferred the 6010A + 5040A to the larger speaker models.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundood View Post

Genelecs are excellent...period. You are not going to get a huge midbass punch, but smooth, refined, and well integrated. Only drawback is that they are designed and voiced for nearfield production work so in a large space...maybe not so good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim HTPC View Post

Genelec has a sub that makes the difference between "being at the movie" vs. "being IN the movie". Get the HTS6 sub from Genelec. I have it in my house and EVERY person that auditions it says, WOW! I never knew this was possible. Every punch, kick, bullet, and explosion is felt with energy.


With Genelec you have room controls on the back of each HT315 speaker: treble, mid, bass level, bass tilt, bass rolloff. This GREATLY helps when dialing in your system.


With Genelec you do not need an amplifier. I would recommend using XLRs instead of single ended RCA.


The B&W Diamond series are nice for music if you have awesome monobloc amps. Another problem is the B&Ws are traditional speaker designs. Meaning when you feed your amplified signal, it goes to their passive crossover to each speaker. Whereas the Genelecs go into an active crossover, and then to 3 separate amplifiers (one for each driver). Each amplifier is matched to the driver as well at the factory.


I will also reiterate, Genelecs like to be flush mounted, whereas B&Ws like to stand out into the room. I looks like you are building a proscenium, which would be perfect for the Genelecs.


If you have not heard Genelec's you WILL be impressed if the dealer knows what they are doing.


My arrangement is 3 x HT315s (front- left/center/right), HTS6 sub front-center under HT315.


For your rear surrounds, you can go with HT210's for side and rear. Or you could go with AIW26's. Those 2 speakers are very close.

Genelec 8020 and 5040 subwoofer review
Review: Genelec 8020 Monitor & 5040 Subwoofer


6 Moons Genelec Review

Electronic Musician Review of 8020& 7050 Sub

half dozen more reviews on Genelec and their subs and speakers here. http://www.ecoustics.com/editorial/reviews/genelec

http://www.genelec-ht.com/awards-review/products-reviews/

Mix Magazine on the 7000 Series Subs


Music Tech Magazine Review

Pro Audio Review

Resolution Magazine

Trusted Reviews

Future Music Review
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The Speaker Layout or the Apartment? The speaker layout is the ITU spec for 5.1 and the apartment is the image GSNR posted in his first post as an attachment.
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GSNR

There is a nice thread on Gearlslutz thought you'd appreciate it.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/531818-genelec-vs-adam-subwoofers.html
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@PeterMacC

Thank you so very much... for all the info and references. Saying thanks just doesn't seem enough at all...

btw: I'm considering the 8040/G4 and 8030/G3 setup because the head-room may become necessary as there is a slight chance that I may have to move to a bigger place with the attached layout...
4BHK layout.jpg 775k .jpg file
Living/Dining hall: 25' x 18' open to a Foyer: 9' x 12' with Ceiling height 10'
I hadn't mentioned it earlier because TMI always confuses...ideally the setup I choose now should be sufficient for the above - so that I could use it in either scenario...(should accidents wink.gif necessitating a move to a 4BHK happen - I may still be able to finagle a dedicated bedroom for a HT)

Taking this into account - I'm planning on the following options:
Left/Right - 8040 / G4 - Which if I paired with a really good sub - I will have a powerful 2.1 ch setup for when listening to good music... and for movies I'll have the following
Surrounds - 8030 / G3
Center (undecided) - 8040 / G4 or 8030 / G3
I realize, ideally LCR should be the same, but putting the 8030 / G3 as center gives me a system that is in effect 8030 in all 5 channels (because the 8040 can match/perform the same as 8030 but not the other way round)
I can spend the $400 saved on the sub... which takes the maximum I'm willing to spend on the subs to about $1100.

Now that is where my dilemma continues...even though the Genelec 7050B is $1100 - the Owner's Manual for 7050B says it "should not be used in surround applications with the 8030A due to their greater SPL capacity"...

I like the idea of using Genelec subs which is well integrated with the other speakers looks/sound but the subs are mostly going to be out of sight anyways and there are far better looking subs from other makers - so the looks are not a concern but what is important is performance - distortion, frequency range, power consumption and output.
The 7050 may be very efficient and consume only 70W for an SPL@1m of 100dB but if its not suitable for the 8030 setup then the higher model 7060 which is well integrated with the 8040 and 8030 but is priced at $2200 well beyond my budget... can only take XLR and not XLR+RCA (like the speakers G4 or G3) so I can't really skip the processor either...

I don't know how important of a factor Genelec’s new Laminar Spiral Enclosure (LSE) is: "LSE is sheet metal rolled into a spiral shape and clamped between thick MDF side panels which forms a seamless, gently curving reflex tube with excellent laminar flow characteristics and minimal turbulence noise. The curved shape also offers excellent structural stiffness and optimal packing of a very long reflex tube into a small space. The bass management unit is mounted on vibration absorbers, to ensure rattle-free operation. This results in a robust and reliable system. The handsome cast-aluminium grille also functions as a heat-sink for the power amplifier."
- Do these features make it worth twice the price of other subs with similar output?

Frankly I think a good sub shouldn't cost that much - especially considering the intense competition among the multitude of sub makers and some people even assemble their own subs as a weekend-DIY.
Therefore please correct me if I'm wrong... I assume there are much better subs out there with equal or better performance that cost far less...

Assuming the "integrated Genelec look/sound" and the purported benefits of the above aren't essential to me and am willing to give these up, how important is 5.1 bass management in a sub - especially if its not going to be used for mixing music or in a studio,

I see it can be handy if you don't add a processor and can somehow get balanced XLR output from the sources...

- but since it looks I'm going to have to buy some kind of sound card - do these come with room correction software and volume controls similar to Dolby Volume?

Its quite a surprising that there isn't a serious Home-theater PC to this day - all that talk of "windows media-center", "apple-TV", roku, "chromecast" etc still don't quite do everything a HTPC should do...but that's for a different topic...

Now add another slight wrinkle - the ADAM sales person called to offer delivery in 2 weeks and may be even a very small discount - whereas Genelec is a wait time of 5-6 weeks and prices seem firmer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grnsr View Post

I like the idea of using Genelec subs which is well integrated with the other speakers looks/sound

Keep in mind that there is no audio SQ reason to use subs from the same manufacturer as the speakers. A good sounding sub is a good sounding sub. Get the sub that best suits your needs, your room, and your budget smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by grnsr View Post

The 7050 may be very efficient and consume only 70W for an SPL@1m of 100dB

The measurements that PeterMacC shared indicate that more realistically, that output is somewhere closer to 95db (or less) before major compression and distortion kicks in.

All of the sub measurements in this table were taken by Josh Ricci, who is a reviewer for Audioholics (click on the sub itself to see more measurements). You can see how many of the Internet direct sub vendors already mentioned measure. The measurement process is similar to Ilkka who did the Genelec measurements, with measurements taken at 2m. So for example, here is the full review that Ricci did for the SVS PB12-NSD: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/pb12-nsd
Note that the PB12-NSD was rated by Audioholics as good for rooms from 3,000 to 5,000 cubic feet (although it can certainly be used in smaller rooms) on the last page of the review.

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Folks,

I have now removed Focal - from the running even though its the best in looks of the 3 and price-wise right in the middle but its not the first choice in the "heart category" which clearly is with Genelec - the halo effect of the brand and first choice in "head category" is with ADAM due to price/performance.

I've updated the original post to reflect this...
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Folks,

So far - just 1 vote received and the Genelec is winning by 100% margin... without anybody to oppose or even second it....

Can we get some votes/opinions and debates going?


If possible could someone explain a technical question that I had:
According to my dealer: "In comparing the input sensitivity of Genelec - G 3 vs 8030 the 8030 has an input sensitivity of +4dB - the reference signal levels of "professional audio equipment" whereas the G 3 levels reference to -10dB for consumer audio equipment. The sensitivity references do not impact speaker performance but only indicate the kind of equipment the speaker is designed to interface."

Could someone please elaborate/help me understand this statement?

This is to help me decide if I should go with the home theater grade G 3/G 4 which look way better than the pro-monitor grade 8030 vs 8040 (with front power switch and volume dial")

I'm also looking for sub-suggestions to go with a 8040 (L/R) and 8030 (Center, Surrounds) setup...
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post #26 of 39 Old 08-06-2013, 09:29 AM
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You're beating this like a dead horse.

Just pick one and go with it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grnsr View Post


If possible could someone explain a technical question that I had:
According to my dealer: "In comparing the input sensitivity of Genelec - G 3 vs 8030 the 8030 has an input sensitivity of +4dB - the reference signal levels of "professional audio equipment" whereas the G 3 levels reference to -10dB for consumer audio equipment. The sensitivity references do not impact speaker performance but only indicate the kind of equipment the speaker is designed to interface."

Could someone please elaborate/help me understand this statement?

This is to help me decide if I should go with the home theater grade G 3/G 4 which look way better than the pro-monitor grade 8030 vs 8040 (with front power switch and volume dial")

I'm also looking for sub-suggestions to go with a 8040 (L/R) and 8030 (Center, Surrounds) setup...

GSNR,

I spoke with some people today about your system requirements. Basically, they did confirm that for either of the rooms being full of hard reflective surfaces you can use a smaller speaker setup so you could use a 6010/6020 or 8020. It's the same speaker aside from connections in the back and the power control on the front.

The potential space you might wind up in is bigger yes. But the fact of the matter is. You wouldn't be placing the speakers on the back walls of the room. So you realistically only have a space that is 12' by 18' by 10' that is being used as the listening area. So the largest listening area is 2160 Cubic Feet. That's within the room size Genelec specs out as still being close enough to match a 6010 system that is going to cost you a lot less money which you seem to be wavering on in the heart and head thinking. And if you think it's too small the G2/6020/8020 surround setup is probably the ideal setup for your system for price and performance because you seem to be wanting to balance the two in your thinking. And as far as the 7050 being too small. Genelec has a 8030 broadcast pack with 5 speakers and a 8050 sub. They aren't going to bundle something like that if it won't sound great.

About the tech question.

"In comparing the input sensitivity of Genelec - G 3 vs 8030 the 8030 has an input sensitivity of +4dB - the reference signal levels of "professional audio equipment" whereas the G 3 levels reference to -10dB for consumer audio equipment. The sensitivity references do not impact speaker performance" but only indicate the kind of equipment the speaker is designed to interface."

All that +4dbv and -10dbu indicates is voltage on the line level. The operative statement of the quoted thing is bolded. The speakers are going to perform the same.

I wouldn't let that be a sticking point on either. But bear in mind most PC Home theater cards for good boxes do offer a setting for +4 or -10 in the software or hardware.
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post #28 of 39 Old 08-06-2013, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grnsr View Post



I'm also looking for sub-suggestions to go with a 8040 (L/R) and 8030 (Center, Surrounds) setup...

It's scary spending your money on something you want to make sure you aren't buying wrong. You're not going to go wrong with a Genelec setup. What I do see a concern with. And this is something DOLBY, DTS, & even genelec says about LCR speakers.


Remember that Custom Install Guide I linked you to?

They mention this for Center & L R Channels

"Conventional two-way 'center' loudspeaker designs are inherently compromised in the power response (the total radiated energy into the room). The driver spacing leads to horizontal off-axis cancellations around the high-pass crossover in the horizontal direction. In addition, the use of three drivers positioned in a line narrows the directivity in the plane of the drivers, i.e. horizontally. This severely compromises the sound quality for people sitting to the left and right of the center of the room, i.e. off-axis.

Given these two-way center loudspeaker design compromises and the recommendations from Dolby, DTS and others that, in an ideal surround sound system, the front loudspeakers are all the same for good timbre matching, the best choice for a center loudspeaker is another loudspeaker that it is the same as that used for the left and right loudspeakers. For example, the best match for an HT208B is another HT208B!"

Also by maintaining the same size speaker you enable a volume boost for every time a sound source is amplified. So if you have something playing out of one speaker and you have another speaker playing the same thing. Your volume is going to go up by 3db.

The 6020/8020/G2/4020 are all in a theater setup allowing you a distance of 8 feet from the listening area. So if you go out 8 feet each way from your listening space in any of the rooms even your larger 4BK unit that's a sixteen foot wide circle. You still will be ok with a 8020/8030 setup.

They also state in that guide section
Quote:
2.10 Selecting the Right Model

Use the following chart as a guide for product selection and follow these three simple steps:


• Calculate the room volume and find the highest row in the table where the value of "Maximum Room Volume" is not smaller than the actual room volume.

• Measure the listening distance to the center of the listening area and find the highest row in the table where the value of "Maximum Listening Distance" is not shorter than the actual listening distance.

• If there are two different rows selected in the previous two steps, select the loudspeakers from the row that is lowest in the table, i.e. the larger of the two if there are two different lines recommended.
Note: these recommendations are for the SMALLEST system that can be expected to give a good theatrical experience. Larger systems offer more impact and headroom, so do not be afraid to select larger models in the range than those indicated. The main thing to be concerned about when up rating the system is to keep the whole system in balance, so do not select a 1036A for the front wall and have 6020A's for sides and rears!
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post #29 of 39 Old 08-06-2013, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grnsr View Post

I'm also looking for sub-suggestions to go with a 8040 (L/R) and 8030 (Center, Surrounds) setup...

You might want to start a thread in the AVS subwoofer forum.

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post #30 of 39 Old 08-06-2013, 03:47 PM
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He's better off on a site like gearslutz.com or Computeraudiophile.com There you'll find people who are used to matching pro audio speakers like Genelec and Adam to subs.
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