Bookshelves enough for a dedicated movie room? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I've done some extensive reading but cannot find a decisive answer. I'd like to opt for bookshelves/monitors over large bulky floorstanding speakers for our new home theater room. The room will be used for movies with dimensions of 20 x 13 enclosed.

Am I right in thinking that bookshelf fronts would be able to fill the room with dynamic sound? Are there any "good" suggestions for LCR at around $1200 including the matching center channel?

I have dual subs.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 08:32 AM
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Short answer, YES.

Long answer: generally, the biggest difference with a tower and bookshelves is the ability to play lower frequencies at a higher output. In a bookshelf speaker, designers are constrained due to size. In a home theater, you will usually use a dedicated sub-woofer. The sub will play the lower frequencies, and will have higher output than what the tower could offer. The sub will also allow flexible placement for better sound quality. That will leave you with $$$ to invest in a better bookshelf speaker that you would have left for a tower.

In conclusion (generally speaking), for dedicated home theater, all you need from your speakers is for them to play from 80hz to 20Khz at reference level. Most quality bookshelves will play in these frequencies at reference level. Towers don't have an advantage on these just for being towers. The consensus is that a X amount of dollars will allow you to buy better speakers that play 80hz (60hz) -20Khz (which is what you need in this setup) over something that plays 40hz - 20Khz. Usually, this end up being a bookshelf.

There are always exceptions. One that comes in mind, Pioneers FS52 at $77 (Fry's special). Arguably, at this price, there isn't a bookshelf speaker available in the market that has better sound quality in the 80hz - 20kHz frequencies.

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post #3 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks.
I'm going to go and audition some Imagine B's today but want to also see what else I should consider. I'm wondering if a Denon 4311 would be efficient enough to power these particular bookshelf speakers?

Would like to see some similar recommendations.
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post #4 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 09:03 AM
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Since you are looking for bookshelves, how about mini towers? Ascend Acoustics CMT 340 SE and CMT 340 SE center. Notice that the center is the same speaker, only configured for horizontal placement. That would give you an excellent timber match across the front soundstage with six 6.5" drivers firing at you biggrin.gif.

Sensitivity rating is 90dB @ 1 watt/ 1 meter, so the Denon 4311 should drive them just find. More information in this AVS member review: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1478626/ascend-acoustic-5-1-setup-review

Then put some of the rest of your budget toward a better sub smile.gif

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post #5 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 09:29 AM
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Is a MTM Bookshelf called "MiniTower" ?
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post #6 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdnewbie21 View Post

Is a MTM Bookshelf called "MiniTower" ?

That's what Ascend calls theirs smile.gif

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post #7 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 09:40 AM
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I would say for that mid sized room that a pretty sensitive bookshelf with atleast a5.25 inch woofer would be required, with a good sub, to fill that room.

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #8 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdnewbie21 View Post

Is a MTM Bookshelf called "MiniTower" ?
I believe MTM=Midrange Tweeter Midrange. For movie, look at those high sensitivity speaker (>92db) with horn tweeter. Are used speaker acceptable? If so, search for Klipsch on your local Craiglist. For $1200, you can easily get the older Klipsch and have some cash back in your pocket. The older Klipsch has >97db sensitivity and are excellent for movie and even with music.
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post #9 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Good suggestions. I almost pulled the trigger on the CMT-340s yesterday but they mentioned that they are not available till September which is too far away.

I just auditioned the PSB and Paradigm Synchrony lines and they were amazing, exactly the sound I want but for way less.
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post #10 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exlondoner View Post

Good suggestions. I almost pulled the trigger on the CMT-340s yesterday but they mentioned that they are not available till September which is too far away.

I don't blame you. A month is too long to wait for audio equipment if you are ready to buy smile.gif

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post #11 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Particularly after a 6month + ongoing project.

What are the opinions on similar MTMs (if any)?
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post #12 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

I believe MTM=Midrange Tweeter Midrange.

I know what MTM is. My question was about them being referred as "MiniTowers" which Cel replied as this being a marketing term used by Ascend. If you look at the OP, he is asking about the differences between bookshelves and towers. We don't want to confuse the OP as to thinking there is a 3rd type of enclosure called "minitower". Basically, Ascend's MTM is a bookshelf.
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What are the opinions on similar MTMs (if any)?
Don't get hung up on MTMs options. This is just a speaker design choice, no different than a 2 way or 3 way speaker (MTMs are 2 way). However, these Ascends are supposed to be really good. I don't have first hand experience but a lot of people like them. Also, look at the HSUs http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/hc-1.html. For pure movie theater, I think HSUs will do better for their dynamic prowess. These two are compared frequently here in AVS. What I take away from these is: Pure Home Theater, HSU > Ascend; For mix HT and Music, Ascend>HSU.
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post #13 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 11:54 AM
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I agree with hdnewbie21 look at the Hsu horn bookshelf speakers.... Which I and i believe one other poster had recommended in your first speaker recommendation thread. You could also look at BIC America Formula Series speakers. The Hsu's will be better than them but the BIC's will be cheaper. I have the Acoustech Platinum line from BIC which had design help from Dr. Hsu. I think they sound great especially considering the price.
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post #14 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdnewbie21 View Post

We don't want to confuse the OP as to thinking there is a 3rd type of enclosure called "minitower". Basically, Ascend's MTM is a bookshelf.

Is it? What defines a bookshelf? A mini tower? And don't forget that term monitors. wink.gif

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post #15 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exlondoner View Post

I've done some extensive reading but cannot find a decisive answer. I'd like to opt for bookshelves/monitors over large bulky floorstanding speakers for our new home theater room. The room will be used for movies with dimensions of 20 x 13 enclosed.

Am I right in thinking that bookshelf fronts would be able to fill the room with dynamic sound? Are there any "good" suggestions for LCR at around $1200 including the matching center channel?

I have dual subs.

Thanks!
It depends on the bookshelf speaker. My Klipsch bookshelves will do it easily but my Paradigm Studio 20's will not. I tried running my Paradigm's in my living room and they just don't have what it takes for a room that size. Three Klipsch RB-81 II's would take a room that size to theater quality sound reaching whatever SPL you want and never miss a beat. They also fit into your $1200 price range pretty much. Go give them a listen and see if it's a sound you like.
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post #16 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Is it? What defines a bookshelf? A mini tower? And don't forget that term monitors. wink.gif
For all intents and purposes, in my view they are all "bookshelves".
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post #17 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is my shortlist now:

PSB Imagine B with the matching center
HSU Bookshelves

The Klipsch albeit excellent specs just won't pass the WAF
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post #18 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by hdnewbie21 View Post

For all intents and purposes, in my view they are all "bookshelves".

Yet, interestingly, the vast majority are designed such that they should NOT be placed on a bookshelf... wink.gif
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post #19 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

Yet, interestingly, the vast majority are designed such that they should NOT be placed on a bookshelf... wink.gif

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif, it seems you haven't met our AVS friend Brian biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

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post #20 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exlondoner View Post

Here is my shortlist now:

PSB Imagine B with the matching center
HSU Bookshelves

The Klipsch albeit excellent specs just won't pass the WAF

Since you would come down way under budget, I suggest you order the 30 day trial on the HSU. Call them and ask them for a discount if your order 3, they usually discount them as "speaker package" At worst, you end up paying shipping cost both ways, but there won't be better judge for those speakers than yourself.

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post #21 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by hdnewbie21 View Post

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif, it seems you haven't met our AVS friend Brian biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

Be careful. Don't invoke Beetlejuice smile.gif

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post #22 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exlondoner View Post

Here is my shortlist now:

PSB Imagine B with the matching center
HSU Bookshelves

The Klipsch albeit excellent specs just won't pass the WAF

Curious, the rather large HSUs pass the WAF but the similar looking Klipsch do not? If the 81s are too large there's always the 61s. IMO the Klipsch are the better theater speaker as they use a compression driver in the horn rather than a regular driver in a horn as a wave guide. The Klipsch will be more dynamic and more "theater" like.

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post #23 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

Curious, the rather large HSUs pass the WAF but the similar looking Klipsch do not? If the 81s are too large there's always the 61s.
I thought the same thing.
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IMO the Klipsch are the better theater speaker as they use a compression driver in the horn rather than a regular driver in a horn as a wave guide. The Klipsch will be more dynamic and more "theater" like.

At the same time, the HSUs are not as harsh or bright as Klipsch. HSUs are also praised for a wide soundstage, so those may be good trade offs. the HSU are also known for "theater like", but agreed on them not being compression tweeter.

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post #24 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by hdnewbie21 View Post


I thought the same thing.
At the same time, the HSUs are not as harsh or bright as Klipsch. HSUs are also praised for a wide soundstage, so those may be good trade offs. the HSU are also known for "theater like", but agreed on them not being compression tweeter.

I would much rather have controlled directivity over wide dispersion. With controlled directivity, you can direct the sound toward the audience and help minimize the reflections on the walls, ceiling and floor.

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post #25 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdnewbie21 View Post


I thought the same thing.
At the same time, the HSUs are not as harsh or bright as Klipsch. HSUs are also praised for a wide soundstage, so those may be good trade offs. the HSU are also known for "theater like", but agreed on them not being compression tweeter.

Its funny that you mention that the HSU speakers have a wide soundstage because one of the knocks against it from the reviews that I've read mention that they sound great but have a small sweet spot. Which would suggest the opposite of what you said.

I do agree that they are excellent speakers for the money and have recommended them to some of my friends too.
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post #26 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 07:26 PM
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Sound stage at the sweet spot can sound wide
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post #27 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Good feedback here, I appreciate everyone's different views. I listened to some Klipsch RF82 towers this past weekend and they didn't sound too harsh to me, but at the same time not much clarity but that could be blamed upon the room.

I heard the top of the line Paradigm and PSB bookshelves today and was in awe, they sounded perfect to my ears, no fatigue at all, so that's the sound I'd like in my HT room.
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post #28 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 07:38 PM
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How far is your seating position? Speaker spec?
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post #29 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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So I'll have two rows, first row will be 13' from the front and the second approx 19'.
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post #30 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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The Synchrony 1 B: http://www.psbspeakers.com/content/130129093350-13-014_PSB_Synchrony_One_English_Specifications.pdf

Way out of of my price range unfortunately, but at least I know the sound I like.
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