Out of the market for a while, want new front mains for my theater. $10k Budget. - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 45 Old 08-19-2013, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

So you are looking at 10-12 ft to listening position which opens up a lot of choices. Problem is that rear wall being so close to listening position........good thing you're already using treatments. wink.gif

Your open room will suck energy from the listening position which creates other issues...........ie. a waveguide would be better but that rear wall being so close creates another issue.

You have some hard decisions to make..............

I suppose I should have included the measurements. I sit around 2 feet away from the back wall(couch has been moved since that picture). I am 13 feet from my mains.

The main thing I want anyone to consider when posting an opinion on speakers, this room isnt the permenant theater. I plan on moving probably within the next 5 years and making an actual dedicated theater in the next house. So Im looking long-term on speakers, not just for short term in this room. Thats why I dont care about budgeting a bit more or going for larger speakers. Even if they overpower the room for now(which I can control by lower volumes) they will be more adequate for the theater in the future.
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post #32 of 45 Old 08-19-2013, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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With that room open...............forget about the Noesis completely!

So now you have me confused. Why are the Noesis ruled out? I would have thought with the horn and controlled dispersion, I wouldnt lose much from the open room.
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post #33 of 45 Old 08-19-2013, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

Let me guess........................11 or 12 ft wide by 13 to 15ft deep?

With that room open...............forget about the Noesis completely! I suggest Triad Gold Monitors........my favorite speaker besides the $30,000 a pair Ariel 20t V2's. Triad Gold LCR would be too much too...............look into Gold Monitors.

Talk to Mike at AVS......................he can meet you budget! wink.gif

Why would you say that? The Noesis speakers have a very focused sound where as other speakers have a much wider sound. The JTR's would be great because the sound will be very focused on the listeners instead of something wider with sound bouncing around the room.

My room isn't sealed off and has about a 7ft wide opening and that's another reason why I love the Noesis speakers. Others have also commented that you would actually need less first reflection point sound treatments going with something like the Noesis speakers because of there focused sound.
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post #34 of 45 Old 08-19-2013, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Why would you say that? The Noesis speakers have a very focused sound where as other speakers have a much wider sound. The JTR's would be great because the sound will be very focused on the listeners instead of something wider with sound bouncing around the room.

My room isn't sealed off and has about a 7ft wide opening and that's another reason why I love the Noesis speakers. Others have also commented that you would actually need less first reflection point sound treatments going with something like the Noesis speakers because of there focused sound.

Exactly. In a room like that the Noesis will do better than most, not worse because they are more immune to reflections which has been shown in quite a few measurements including the northeast GTG at Gorilla83's.

Also, the Noesis were put up against some higher end Salks (Salk HT2-TLs) speakers in a blind comparison at another dlbeck GTG. Don't get me wrong, the Salks sound awesome and plenty of people preferred them, but surprisingly the Noesis 212's came out ahead for music and overwhelmingly ahead for movies.

I was nervous going to this meet, because I had yet to heard the Salk's and if I like them better I would be making the change, selling my 212's and buying some new speakers. I really like them, that ribbon tweeter is sweet and they look awesome but the 212's sounded better to me.

Here are the results of that GTG.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/871474/ia-meet/3450#post_22789054


It's all opinion and it's obviously fine if some think that the 212's are unrefined and aren't a great choice for music. For me I couldn't disagree more. I thought I was perfectly happy with my speakers but upon hearing these 212's the first time I knew I was in trouble, I knew I had to have them. For me the motivation was music since that was my priority but it didn't hurt that they are over the top awesome for movies. I'm listening to music right now and it is such a sweet, smooth, open, huge, sound with unreal imaging.


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post #35 of 45 Old 08-19-2013, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Why would you say that? The Noesis speakers have a very focused sound where as other speakers have a much wider sound. The JTR's would be great because the sound will be very focused on the listeners instead of something wider with sound bouncing around the room.

Look at post #30 in this thread.........wink.gif

With an open room............sure, waveguides would be much better but the listening position is right up against the back wall. Not a good solution IMHO.

Like I mentioned before, the OP needs to give something up here...............waveguides would work due to openess of room........but inherent problems are in fact real due to listening position relative to wall.

I've spent time with fore mentioned Ultra's, Noesis 212's............and would put both in the same category. The one caveat............the Noesis will not compress when the volume is increased to ear bleeding levels unlike the Ultras.

Noesis 212's are fine speakers.............in the right setting and application.

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post #36 of 45 Old 08-19-2013, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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To be fair, my couch has been moved away from the wall since I took that picture. I'm about two - three feet from the wall depending if I'm sitting up or reclining.
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post #37 of 45 Old 08-19-2013, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

Look at post #30 in this thread.........wink.gif

With an open room............sure, waveguides would be much better but the listening position is right up against the back wall. Not a good solution IMHO.

Like I mentioned before, the OP needs to give something up here...............waveguides would work due to openess of room........but inherent problems are in fact real due to listening position relative to wall.

I've spent time with fore mentioned Ultra's, Noesis 212's............and would put both in the same category. The one caveat............the Noesis will not compress when the volume is increased to ear bleeding levels unlike the Ultras.

Noesis 212's are fine speakers.............in the right setting and application.

Well with all due respect my recliners are basically right up against the wall just like the OP's and while yes you went and listened to RMK's I live with mine everyday and hear them pretty much daily. All of your reasoning aren't really what all other owners of the Noesis speakers feel IMO. I've heard the Ultra's and I still feel the 228HT's are a better speaker.

Sorry doublewing, I'm not trying to call you out but everything you have said about the Noesis speakers has been off.
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post #38 of 45 Old 08-20-2013, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Ugh, this is killing me. I am craving something new so bad now. My mind is almost blowing up with the amount of threads I have been reading, literally, till the wee hours of the morning.

JTR(228/212), Triad inroom Gold LCR, Aerial 7t, Pendragon...I think I have ruled out the Catalyst 12c at this point as I would rather have passive speakers. Anything else Im missing in the mix?

Please, lets all come together and help me make a purchase!
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post #39 of 45 Old 08-20-2013, 09:00 AM
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Yeah that was basically me 6 months ago so I know how you feel.
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post #40 of 45 Old 08-20-2013, 09:08 AM
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Please, lets all come together and help me make a purchase!

You've received a lot of good recommendations................now YOU have to go out and hear for yourself. I took 2.5 years..............you're under a tighter timeline........so be it.

Do not purchase anything until you have listened for yourself...............audio is so subjective............. owners tend to be extremely bias. Keep that in mind and complete the task! biggrin.gif

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post #41 of 45 Old 08-20-2013, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

You've received a lot of good recommendations................now YOU have to go out and hear for yourself. I took 2.5 years..............you're under a tighter timeline........so be it.

Do not purchase anything until you have listened for yourself...............audio is so subjective............. owners tend to be extremely bias. Keep that in mind and complete the task! biggrin.gif

Yep, exactly.


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post #42 of 45 Old 08-20-2013, 11:39 AM
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At $10 for the front three you might look at some of JBL's Sythesis linup. Those are going to be well engineered speakers. I would give Funk Audio a call and inquire about their speaker lines, which are sure to be good. If you need something that looks nice, check out the Klipsch Palladium p-17, it has some pretty respectable measurements, better than its floorstanding brothers. I would also give Pi speakers a look if you intend to put the speakers in the corner, Pi looks like they have some great corner based speaker so check out those corner horns. A Seven Cornerhorn would be amazing, it's well worth your time to ask about. Another speaker maker with nice looking speakers for corner loading is AudioKinesis, I don't know as much about them but the designs look intriguing. I think at this stage it's worth asking about on your budget.
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post #43 of 45 Old 08-20-2013, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

You've received a lot of good recommendations................now YOU have to go out and hear for yourself. I took 2.5 years..............you're under a tighter timeline........so be it.

Do not purchase anything until you have listened for yourself...............audio is so subjective............. owners tend to be extremely bias. Keep that in mind and complete the task! biggrin.gif

Owners never show bias around here.....

That being said; I have three Aerial Acoustics LR5's for my front L,R and C. You can find them pre-owned for well under your budget. They are absolutely the best speakers in the world rolleyes.gif

David Lynch Current Equipment: Marantz AV8801, Proceed HPA3, Parasound HCA-1206, Aerial Acoustics LR5's (LCR), Aerial Acoustics LR3's (sides), RBH in-walls (rears), Seaton Submersive, Marantz VP15s1, 106" Carada BW screen, Oppo BDP-103.
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post #44 of 45 Old 08-21-2013, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, to update this thread, I finally visited my local HIFI house to audition some speakers.

First up are the speakers I specifically went there for, The Paradigm Signature S6. Right off the bat they were beautiful looking speakers. However, once we started playing them I was turned off immediately. Thley had none of the full sound I was looking for. The midrange was less that detailed, if anything I would say it was overwhelmed. We werent even playing it loud but the instruments in the music just seemed to overlap each other. There was no soundstage or definition. I was less than enthused and was now looking at other speakers they offered.

Next up were the Totem Forest. I really like the Totem brand as I have the Hawks in my 2-channel system downstairs. These sounded fantastic as expected but I didnt want these type of speakers in my home theater...so moving on.

Lastly the rep suggested I listen to Sonus Faber as it has the same sound quality as the Totem. I listened to one set in their theater room(I forget the model but it was a new one) and it sounded pretty good. Nice and detailed with a very dimensional midrange which was what I was looking for. Unfortunately with these, they just didnt have any height to them. The sound stage was flat even though it was wide. Instruments were separated but they never got above the speakers. Any live recordings sounded like the stage was on the same plane as my seat. Wasnt like other speakers, the Totem, that gave me the impression I was looking up a bit to hear it. They were around 2k each but didnt impress me enough to say Yeah I want them.

Then the rep said he had something for me and led me to another room. In this room was a set of Sonus Faber Cremona M speakers. Apparently these are discontinued now but they were absolutely gorgeous. We listened to the same tracks as on the other speakers and the room came alive. Instruments were detailed and placed accordingly. The height on movie tracks were imaged very well and again very detailed. They got so low in full range without a sub on that I felt hits in my chest and feet. Impressive to say the least.

Ok, so the bad part. The rep said he would give me the floor models of these Cremona's for half off since they were being discontinued. Half off a lot of money is still a lot of money. The full set of front 3 and the 2 rear speakers would run me around 11.5k. Normally these would be around 20k+. They offered me 0% financing for 18 months on anything which made it a little more acceptable. However, 11k is still a tough pill to swallow.

The whole time I kept thinking about the other speakers I was wavering on like the JTR for 3.5k and the Triad for a little more than that. Paying half of the price of these Cremonas for speakers that are very well regarded is more palatable for me.

So, after all that, has anyone ever heard these Sonus Fabers before and what did you think? Is it worth the step up for speakers that look absolutely beautiful but probably perform the same as the lesser priced speakers aforementioned?

I keep thinking that even if I just ordered up the JTR's and didnt like them, I probably wouldnt have a hard time selling them pretty quickly. But if I liked them it would be money well spent.
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post #45 of 45 Old 08-22-2013, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Final update:

Just got off the phone with Jeff a couple hours ago and ordered up 3 228's and two pedastals. Decided it was the best decision with my money at this point. Will post up a new thread when they arrive.
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