Recommendations - 3.1 Setup Speakers, Subwoofer, Receiver - $6,500 Budget (Increased!) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 51 Old 08-21-2013, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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The thread title pretty much says it. I am currently using a 3.1 setup with the original Pioneer Andrew Jones speakers and subwoofer with an Oknyo 616 receiver (I have 5.1 for the speakers, but haven't figured out how to get the surrounds integrated into my new living room setup).

I'd like to move that entire system to a small office bedroom to be used for gaming and maybe an occasional Blu-ray.

So, here is what I would like to achieve for around $3,500 (100% HT use):

Speakers - Front L/R and Center
Subwoofer
Receiver

I have some direction where I'd like to head for the subwoofer and receiver, the Outlaw LFM-1 EX during one of their $550 or $600 shipped sales for the sub and the Denon X4000 for the receiver (I know that I want MultEQ XT32 and the SubEQ HT would be nice as well if I ever add a 2nd sub to the setup).

So, that puts me in the ballpark of $1,500 so far, which leaves about $2,000 for the speakers. I have given some thought to the following:

Klipsch RF-82ii
KEF Q900
PSB Image T6

I'd like to know what everyone thinks and what combinations they would suggest to get to the 3.1 system with the $3,500 budget. Thanks in advance for the help! I'm not in a huge hurry here, I think later this fall (Black Friday time period) would be the earliest any purchases are made.

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post #2 of 51 Old 08-21-2013, 12:08 PM
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Why not 5.3? biggrin.gif

I would shave off some of that speaker budget by getting monitors and putting that money towards more subs.

I think speakers are better off working the 100Hz - 20kHz region and letting the big subs handle the big bass below.

No towers will be able to play the bass from 20 - 100 Hz as well as the good subs anyway.

3 Rythmik LV12 subs would cost $1615 shipped (10% discount).

Call Electronics Expo and other dealers to see if they can help you out on the pricing of the X4000 AVR - I think $900 shipped would be good. Of course, it may be like $600 in 6 months.

So that should give you about $1K for speakers.

I would get the super accurate (+/-0.9dB FR) NHT Absolute Zero x 5. NHT had a sale on those for $175 each, I bet they would still give you the discount, so that would be $875 shipped for 5 speakers.

Total 5.3 system (5 speakers + 3 subs + 1 AVR) for $3.5K.

Run Audyssey XT32. Then manually increase the Sub Trim Levels since Audyssey will unequivocally set them too low. Also set speakers to Small & XO to 100Hz.

That's my take. biggrin.gif
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post #3 of 51 Old 08-21-2013, 02:47 PM
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I would check out the def tech sts. my local best buy quoted me 3k for two sts towers and a mythos 10 center. You can get the rythmik sub and call it a day.

The sts are very impressive in my non professional opinion

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post #4 of 51 Old 08-21-2013, 04:31 PM
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How big is your room?

I'd go with ATDG and get some bookshelf/stand speakers and a better sub or 2 subs.

$1K for the AVR,

$1.5K for subs- a pair of PSA XS or XV-15s, 1 XS or XV 30, 1 Ryhtmik FV15HP, 1 SVS PC 13 Ultra (just a few choices)

$1K for speakers. 3 Klipsch RB81IIs across the front would be nice. Give AVS a call to see what price they can get you.

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post #5 of 51 Old 08-21-2013, 05:05 PM
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Could run Klipsch RF-62 and RC-62 across the front with two SVS PB-1000. SVS usually has them $50 cheaper open box items and Klipsch you might even be able to find used and go 62's or 81/82's

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post #6 of 51 Old 08-21-2013, 11:16 PM
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Here is my thought it it means anything to you.

2x Paradigm Studio 20 V.(x) (~$1100 - $1500)
Paradigm Studio Center (unclear what the price is but we can try $500)
HSU VTF15H - $899 or your Outlaw for $699 Even an SVS PB12 for $769

Spend the rest on your receiver.

If you wanted towers this is the way I would go:

Monitor Audio RS6/RX6 ($1000)
Monitor Audio RX LCR ($500)
Same subwoofer options but I would be inclined to double up on subs since you'll have plenty left to spend. Maybe 2x PB12 from SVS.
The rest on the receiver.
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post #7 of 51 Old 08-22-2013, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to everyone who has offered their suggestions so far!

A few clarifications, I suggested towers for the front speakers because this system will be in a rather large, open-concept living room. Living room is roughly 15' x 20', with a sloped ceiling (9' at TV location, 20' at rear "half wall"). The rear "half wall" is the top of the sloped ceiling, and then a kitchen with 9' ceilings behind that. Kitchen connects to an entry-way and dining room. The staircase to an upstairs loft area is also open to the living room, as is a 12' x 12' sunroom that has french doors which can close.

So with all of that said, these speakers will be filling a LARGE space. It is also a living room, so aesthetics must be good and two subs has about a 0.0001% chance of happening, one will cause enough problems!

The 3.1 system doesn't have to be capable of creating an earthquake or providing reference-level clarity, but I do want to have a setup that will create as enveloping of a listenting environment as possible from 10' away.

The receiver and subwoofer budgets provide several options for about $1000 and $750, respectively. So ultimately I'd like to know what L/C/R speaker combination would perform best in these tough situations for around $2,000 combined for the three.

Thanks again!

Video - Panasonic VT50 55" | Panasonic BDT320
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post #8 of 51 Old 08-22-2013, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtyr View Post


Monitor Audio RS6/RX6 ($1000)
Monitor Audio RX LCR ($500)

You could also bump up the speakers to the RX8/RS8 series for more money but I think the 6's will be amazing for you.
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post #9 of 51 Old 08-22-2013, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emr25 View Post

Thanks to everyone who has offered their suggestions so far!

A few clarifications, I suggested towers for the front speakers because this system will be in a rather large, open-concept living room. Living room is roughly 15' x 20', with a sloped ceiling (9' at TV location, 20' at rear "half wall"). The rear "half wall" is the top of the sloped ceiling, and then a kitchen with 9' ceilings behind that. Kitchen connects to an entry-way and dining room. The staircase to an upstairs loft area is also open to the living room, as is a 12' x 12' sunroom that has french doors which can close.

So with all of that said, these speakers will be filling a LARGE space. It is also a living room, so aesthetics must be good and two subs has about a 0.0001% chance of happening, one will cause enough problems!

The 3.1 system doesn't have to be capable of creating an earthquake or providing reference-level clarity, but I do want to have a setup that will create as enveloping of a listenting environment as possible from 10' away.

The receiver and subwoofer budgets provide several options for about $1000 and $750, respectively. So ultimately I'd like to know what L/C/R speaker combination would perform best in these tough situations for around $2,000 combined for the three.

Thanks again!

The saying that towers can "fill" a big room and monitors cannot is erroneous.

In fact, monitors w/ sensitivity of 92-100dB can play much, much louder & can "fill" bigger rooms better than big towers w/ lower sensitivity .

The monitors won't play the bass as low, but some monitors can play the midrange and treble as loud as most towers and louder than many towers.

The important thing is to get multiple big subs that can fill the room.
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post #10 of 51 Old 08-22-2013, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

The saying that towers can "fill" a big room and monitors cannot is erroneous.

In fact, monitors w/ sensitivity of 92-100dB can play much, much louder & can "fill" bigger rooms better than big towers w/ lower sensitivity .

The monitors won't play the bass as low, but some monitors can play the midrange and treble as loud as most towers and louder than many towers.

The important thing is to get multiple big subs that can fill the room.

Understood on the towers vs. monitors "filling" a room debate. The reasoning behind towers was to aid in the bass output since more than one subwoofer is not an option. And TBH, any subwoofer much bigger than an Outlaw LFM1-EX type is not an option either.

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post #11 of 51 Old 08-22-2013, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by emr25 View Post

Understood on the towers vs. monitors "filling" a room debate. The reasoning behind towers was to aid in the bass output since more than one subwoofer is not an option. And TBH, any subwoofer much bigger than an Outlaw LFM1-EX type is not an option either.

The powersoundaudio XV-15 is that general size.

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post #12 of 51 Old 08-22-2013, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by auceny View Post

The powersoundaudio XV-15 is that general size.

That was actually towards the top of my list as well! I like the clean fit and finish of the Outlaw, but the PSA would definitely be more capable in the large space.

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post #13 of 51 Old 08-22-2013, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emr25 View Post

The reasoning behind towers was to aid in the bass output since more than one subwoofer is not an option.

Unless you plan on running double bass (mains set to full range and a sub) the towers won't contribute a whole lot of bass below the recommended 80hz crossover.

If you have room for 2 tower speakers then you have room for 2 bookshelf speakers and 2 subs to use as stands. Get subs that have a nice finish or look and you're all set. smile.gif

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post #14 of 51 Old 08-22-2013, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

Unless you plan on running double bass (mains set to full range and a sub) the towers won't contribute a whole lot of bass below the recommended 80hz crossover.

If you have room for 2 tower speakers then you have room for 2 bookshelf speakers and 2 subs to use as stands. Get subs that have a nice finish or look and you're all set. smile.gif
+1 ; I see towers appropriate only you are not going to use a sub at all.

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post #15 of 51 Old 08-22-2013, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by emr25 View Post

That was actually towards the top of my list as well! I like the clean fit and finish of the Outlaw, but the PSA would definitely be more capable in the large space.

The XV15 has very little output advantage over the Outlaw sub at all. It isn't any more capably of filling your space than the Outlaw. If you don't believe me you can compare their measured performance here. Personally I would go with a Hsu VTF3 over either.
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post #16 of 51 Old 08-22-2013, 04:57 PM
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Is the LFM-1 EX $649 shipped or is there shipping on top of that? If there's shipping on top of the Outlaw sub the XV15 becomes a lot more attractive at $799 shipped. Shady's right at 20hz it would only have about 1.5dB-2dB more output over the LFM-1 EX, but that's a 20hz. Above that its more then that, and on top of the PSA has a better warranty I believe and PSA has the best customer service in the ID business IHMO.

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post #17 of 51 Old 08-22-2013, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Is the LFM-1 EX $649 shipped or is there shipping on top of that? If there's shipping on top of the Outlaw sub the XV15 becomes a lot more attractive at $799 shipped. Shady's right at 20hz it would only have about 1.5dB-2dB more output over the LFM-1 EX, but that's a 20hz. Above that its more then that, and on top of the PSA has a better warranty I believe and PSA has the best customer service in the ID business IHMO.

Looks to be before shipping which is another $90 so you're close to $740 for the Outlaw.

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post #18 of 51 Old 08-22-2013, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by auceny View Post

Looks to be before shipping which is another $90 so you're close to $740 for the Outlaw.

At $740 shipped for the Outlaw, IMHO the XV15 is a better buy with better performance and a better warranty.

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post #19 of 51 Old 08-23-2013, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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So this may sound crazy given the thread title, but I may be reconsidering where I want to go with my first round of upgraditis.

The more research I do and the more I think about what I want to get out of my new setup (essentially 100% movie/TV use), the more inclined I am to just go for broke (within "reason") and get it over with.

(3) JTR Noesis 228HT - LCR
(1) JTR Captivator S1
(1) Denon X4000

At $3600 for speakers and $2200 for the sub, I will be doubling my budget once a receiver is thrown in. I keep telling myself it is crazy to go from a $700 setup to a $7,000 setup, but I also know that I want to be truly blown away with how awesome a movie sounds in my living room. I already have what I consider a top-notch display (Panasonic VT50 55"), so top-notch audio is next on the list and I'm sure I will continue upgrading until I get there. So again, I am leaning towards going for broke now and having no regrets later!

Any suggestions on a receiver that would be a significant upgrade from my Onkyo 616 and somewhere around $1000? Other than the Denon X4000 that I suggested.

Video - Panasonic VT50 55" | Panasonic BDT320
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post #20 of 51 Old 08-23-2013, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emr25 View Post

So this may sound crazy given the thread title, but I may be reconsidering where I want to go with my first round of upgraditis.

The more research I do and the more I think about what I want to get out of my new setup (essentially 100% movie/TV use), the more inclined I am to just go for broke (within "reason") and get it over with.

(3) JTR Noesis 228HT - LCR
(1) JTR Captivator S1
(1) Denon X4000

At $3600 for speakers and $2200 for the sub, I will be doubling my budget once a receiver is thrown in. I keep telling myself it is crazy to go from a $700 setup to a $7,000 setup, but I also know that I want to be truly blown away with how awesome a movie sounds in my living room. I already have what I consider a top-notch display (Panasonic VT50 55"), so top-notch audio is next on the list and I'm sure I will continue upgrading until I get there. So again, I am leaning towards going for broke now and having no regrets later!

Any suggestions on a receiver that would be a significant upgrade from my Onkyo 616 and somewhere around $1000? Other than the Denon X4000 that I suggested.

Now you're talking! wink.gif
I love my 228HT's, but I would suggest maybe taking at look at a Cap 2400 over the S1 if you're mostly movies. A Cap 2400 would have way more output to its port tune of 17.5hz.

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post #21 of 51 Old 08-23-2013, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Now you're talking! wink.gif
I love my 228HT's, but I would suggest maybe taking at look at a Cap 2400 over the S1 if you're mostly movies. A Cap 2400 would have way more output to its port tune of 17.5hz.

That was my next question, I like the small form factor of the S1 and I know it is proven to be a beast! I haven't heard/read much on the Cap 1000 or 2400 (haven't been over to the subwoofer forums much since last summer when I was deciding on my Andrew Jones setup). I'm assuming the 1000 would be underpowered in my very large open living room environment? Especially alongside the 228HTs.

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post #22 of 51 Old 08-23-2013, 01:32 PM
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Somebody had thrown the idea out here earlier. How about dual subs (like PSA XS-30's) and just put the 228HT's on top of them so no stand required?

Dual PSA XS-30's would be $2,184 shipped just for reference.

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post #23 of 51 Old 08-23-2013, 04:45 PM
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Also for pure HT use how about the Klipsch Ultra2? From what I've seen you can get good prices through the dealers. Just ideas from what I've overheard while lurking here.

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post #24 of 51 Old 08-23-2013, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

At $740 shipped for the Outlaw, IMHO the XV15 is a better buy with better performance and a better warranty.
You're wright ,my brother had one. A better performance and a better warranty is important.IKdVSO
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post #25 of 51 Old 08-23-2013, 08:37 PM
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sorry,i am new.smile.gif
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post #26 of 51 Old 08-24-2013, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by emr25 View Post

Understood on the towers vs. monitors "filling" a room debate. The reasoning behind towers was to aid in the bass output since more than one subwoofer is not an option. And TBH, any subwoofer much bigger than an Outlaw LFM1-EX type is not an option either.

Limited space?

No prob.

Place the Sats on stands ATOP the Subs!

It would be like towers, except much better bass!

I place my five KEF 201/2 on stands atop my five RBH SX-1010N subs, so it's like having five large towers! Except the bass is better than ANY tower I have EVER heard.

I prefer my KEF+RBH over my Revel Salon2, B&W 802D2, Linkwitz Orion3, Phil3, and every single tower speaker I have ever heard.
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post #27 of 51 Old 08-24-2013, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by auceny View Post

Also for pure HT use how about the Klipsch Ultra2? From what I've seen you can get good prices through the dealers. Just ideas from what I've overheard while lurking here.

KL650-THX & KL525-THX are ultra accurate +/-1dB FR & smooth off-axis and measured sensitivity of 92dB/2.83v/m, THX Ultra2 certified and Ultra Accurate! Dealer cost on these Klipsch are almost 61% OFF MSRP, so deals can be had.

If I could sell all my speakers, I would get the KL650-THX monitors + KW120-THX subs for my living room.
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post #28 of 51 Old 08-24-2013, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by emr25 View Post


The more research I do and the more I think about what I want to get out of my new setup (essentially 100% movie/TV use), the more inclined I am to just go for broke (within "reason") and get it over with.

(3) JTR Noesis 228HT - LCR
(1) JTR Captivator S1
(1) Denon X4000
This simple statement above is why I would go with these choices you have listed. The 228 features the BMS 4547nd Neodymium compression driver attached to a high end aluminum horn . You can read about it at the BMS website.
This purchase could truly be considered a One and Done purchase.
Good Luck
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post #29 of 51 Old 08-24-2013, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post


This simple statement above is why I would go with these choices you have listed. The 228 features the BMS 4547nd Neodymium compression driver attached to a high end aluminum horn . You can read about it at the BMS website.
This purchase could truly be considered a One and Done purchase.
Good Luck
Chris

I always knew that my 228HT's were build like tanks, but until I pulled the horn out to confirm which CD were in it I didn't totally appreciate how well they were.

But after pulling the horn and CD out I really do have a new appreciation at how they are! Just the high quality horn alone was impressive, when so many other horn speakers use plastic waveguides.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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post #30 of 51 Old 08-24-2013, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
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So I'm still thinking along the same lines for the direction I'm headed, but where they're used may be changing. I may be converting a small bedroom/office into a 2-seat HT room. I've attached a picture from our house floor plan. Will (3) 228HTs and (1) Cap 2400 or Cap S1 be overkill in this small space? MLP will probably only be ~7 feet from the TV (top wall of the picture).

Thoughts?


Video - Panasonic VT50 55" | Panasonic BDT320
AVR - Denon X4000 | Sherbourn PA 7-350
Speakers - JTR Noesis 228HT | DIY Sound Group Volt V10 | JTR Captivator S2
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