Assembling my first audio setup, probably Genelec 8020 + 7050 and need some help - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 36 Old 08-27-2013, 08:05 AM
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cel4145 = +1

BobL = -1

The "size" of the speakers or subs has no bearing on which over powers which when playing content...until one approaches the limits of the weakest link.

When you were referencing "linearity" above, I was confused as well. However, taking the time to understand what context you are using the term for, I now understand what you are attempting to convey.

A system (speakers and subs) calibrated for a flat response across the frequency spectrum, will increase/decrease in a "linear" fashion as one adjusts their AVR volume. Meaning, if you increase your volume 3db, the entire fr will increase accordingly...until you reach the limitations of your equipment.

The only time the sub will "overpower" the speakers is when a system is not properly calibrated or the speakers reach their limits before the sub does.

I do not recall the OP identifying cosmetic (size) requirements/limitations or frequency extension goals.

Regardless of his goals, I don't see how/why anyone would recommend a poorer performing (more expensive) product. Does the Genelec have some sort of independent auto room correction or internal DSP optimization built in?

Even still... SVS + miniDSP 2x4 + miniMic/REW = Superior product, cheaper and the added benefit of learning A LOT about how to properly setup your system.
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post #32 of 36 Old 08-27-2013, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Even still... SVS + miniDSP 2x4 + miniMic/REW = Superior product, cheaper and the added benefit of learning A LOT about how to properly setup your system.

I just looked at your sig. I LOVE the insanity of your sub setup in that small room biggrin.gif

Perhaps you could help explain to the OP why an 8" ported sub with a 70 watt amplifier is just a bad idea (if not practically useless) for any HT usage in a medium-sized room?

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post #33 of 36 Old 08-27-2013, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I just looked at your sig. I LOVE the insanity of your sub setup in that small room biggrin.gif

Perhaps you could help explain to the OP why an 8" ported sub with a 70 watt amplifier is just a bad idea (if not practically useless) for any HT usage in a medium-sized room?

The logic and references you provided in earlier posts do a great job of supporting the rationale of choosing the SVS over the Genelec.

I'd only add a few small points in layman's terms to help the OP.

1. Subs are one of the first things people find themselves wanting to upgrade. Last thing you would want to do is drop $1,200 on a sub only to realize it isn't enough to suit your needs. (seems like you might be going through something similar with your current AVR...Yikes!)

2. I have more displacement than most and my subs do not over power my other speakers...unless I want them to.

3. A more capable sub = more headroom. More headroom = lower distortion. Lower distortion = more accurate reproduction of source content.

4. If it hasn't been mentioned already, room acoustics play a massive role in the performance of ANY product in YOUR space.

5. Take your time to learn the science behind the hobby...

Enjoy.
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post #34 of 36 Old 08-27-2013, 09:02 AM
 
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How many of you are calibrators or have formal knowledge on acoustics or calibrating a system?  Since I do this for a living I can see you don't!  I'm not here to take insults.  The OP said he was going to use small Genelecs and I KNOW which solutions work for that and how difficult it is to integrate something that is mismatched.  When he decided to use passive monitors and listed what equipment he was trying to interface with I gave suggestions that would better fit his situation.

 

The sub will also have linearity problems if you need to adjust the volume on it.  I have measured this many times in the past with enthusiast that think bigger is better and go with a monster sub with small speakers.  The crossover slope doesn't match if he was using this with a mixer and have to use the subs internal crossover or use the speakers high pass switch.  I'm done with this thread and maybe this forum altogether.  I don't need this BS when coming here as a professional and trying to help and getting ridiculed by inexperienced people.  I how understand when I talk to other colleagues in this profession why they don't bother with these forums.

 

If the OP wants further help he can PM me.

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post #35 of 36 Old 08-27-2013, 09:51 AM
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Since I do this for a living I can see you don't!  I'm not here to take insults. 

No one has been ridiculing you. Although I did give you a hard time about the phone app. Seriously, he should just buy a decent SPL meter with all the money he is spending. Of course you didn't bother to acknowledge that.
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Originally Posted by BobL View Post

I have measured this many times in the past with enthusiast that think bigger is better and go with a monster sub with small speakers.  

And here is one of the problems. No one has suggested he go with a "monster sub." The SVS PB12-NSD is a compact 12" sealed sub. For that matter, it's close in size to the 7050 and weighs about the same, too.

And you have still failed to mention that the difference between a 12db slope and 18db slope crossover will be negligible if he doesn't measure and EQ his system. The sub response is likely to be all over the place. And, as a professional, you could admit that the UMC-200 would provide him a much more flexible bass management/sub speaker integration setup. Nor have you really addressed the problem that the Genelec speaker/sub solution is really ineffective for having a decent cinema watching experience in a medium sized room. Something like the Adams I mentioned would be way better for that. Why didn't you suggest the Adams and then an Adam Sub 10 if that matched integration is as important as you believe. Then he could everything he wants and make you happy, too. rolleyes.gif

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post #36 of 36 Old 08-27-2013, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

How many of you are calibrators or have formal knowledge on acoustics or calibrating a system?  Since I do this for a living I can see you don't!  I'm not here to take insults.  The OP said he was going to use small Genelecs and I KNOW which solutions work for that and how difficult it is to integrate something that is mismatched.  When he decided to use passive monitors and listed what equipment he was trying to interface with I gave suggestions that would better fit his situation.

The sub will also have linearity problems if you need to adjust the volume on it.  I have measured this many times in the past with enthusiast that think bigger is better and go with a monster sub with small speakers.  The crossover slope doesn't match if he was using this with a mixer and have to use the subs internal crossover or use the speakers high pass switch.  I'm done with this thread and maybe this forum altogether.  I don't need this BS when coming here as a professional and trying to help and getting ridiculed by inexperienced people.  I how understand when I talk to other colleagues in this profession why they don't bother with these forums.

If the OP wants further help he can PM me.

My apologies if I came off as insulting. I guess my post was a bit brash. Not my style..

No need to give up on the thread or the forum. I'm just offering my .02 based on my experience.

Can you please provide further elaboration as to why you would choose the Genelecs over a larger/more capable/cost effective sub?

What are your thoughts on output headroom and it's relation to distortion, etc...

What do you mean by mismatched? Are you saying that it's difficult to integrate different brands of equipment together? I understand the concept of timbre matching speakers, but have never heard anyone have issues with purchasing a different brand sub to integrate with XYZ speaker brand?

I am not a professional, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

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