Any advantage of the Pioneer FS-52 over the Pioneer BS-22 for mains with a BIC F12 sub? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 08-23-2013, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I keep reading these discussions about bookshelves vs towers for mains, and some have very strong arguments about them. For these particular speakers (or in general I suppose), would there be any advantage to use the Pioneer towers over the bookshelves if I'm running them with the BIC F12? The FS-52 goes down to 40hz and has a 87 db sensitivity, whereas the BS-22 goes to 50hz and has a 85 db sensitivity. Purchasing stands for the bookshelves isn't neccesary because I have matching tables that I can set them on.

What would you guys do? I only have so much time to audition the speakers so your advice from personal experience would be helpful. Thanks!
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post #2 of 23 Old 08-23-2013, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by butie120 View Post

I keep reading these discussions about bookshelves vs towers for mains, and some have very strong arguments about them. For these particular speakers (or in general I suppose), would there be any advantage to use the Pioneer towers over the bookshelves if I'm running them with the BIC F12? The FS-52 goes down to 40hz and has a 87 db sensitivity, whereas the BS-22 goes to 50hz and has a 85 db sensitivity. Purchasing stands for the bookshelves isn't neccesary because I have matching tables that I can set them on.

What would you guys do? I only have so much time to audition the speakers so your advice from personal experience would be helpful. Thanks!

With the towers only going down to 40hz, they do not go very low. I would just get the book shelf speakers. If that allows you to add a second sub sooner, then you will be farther ahead.

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post #3 of 23 Old 08-23-2013, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

With the towers only going down to 40hz, they do not go very low. I would just get the book shelf speakers. If that allows you to add a second sub sooner, then you will be farther ahead.

Interesting. So even though we hear about towers "pushing more volume" or "having a bigger presence", I wouldn't be missing out on any sound with running the bookshelves instead of the towers? Even with only running one sub?
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post #4 of 23 Old 08-24-2013, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by butie120 View Post

Interesting. So even though we hear about towers "pushing more volume" or "having a bigger presence", I wouldn't be missing out on any sound with running the bookshelves instead of the towers? Even with only running one sub?

There will be a difference in how they sound crossed to a sub at 80hz because of crossover design and also sound bigger because, well, they are bigger and have more drivers emanating sound from a larger area. On the other hand, bookshelf's seem to be able to disappear easier and many prefer the sound coming from more of a single point. They both have their benefits.

They will be very similar. It really depends on your placement options for the sub.

The towers are a insane value so the bookshelves should be as well.

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post #5 of 23 Old 08-24-2013, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

What about Tower vs bookshelf on the mid bass region?
What's the -3dB frequency of the two options? If the -3dB frequency of a bookshelf is the same or lower than the crossover frequency to the subs then any lower F3 that a tower may have is moot, since you won't be listening to it lower frequencies than where the bookshelf extends to anyway.

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post #6 of 23 Old 08-24-2013, 07:57 AM
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http://www.avsforum.com/t/1278774/pioneers-speaker-genius-hits-low-price-point/4440#post_23655023

This would be the best place to post that question.

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post #7 of 23 Old 08-24-2013, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

What's the -3dB frequency of the two options? If the -3dB frequency of a bookshelf is the same or lower than the crossover frequency to the subs then any lower F3 that a tower may have is moot, since you won't be listening to it lower frequencies than where the bookshelf extends to anyway.
Arent you leaving volume and presence out of the equation? Wouldnt multiple drivers provide a larger soundstage in most cases if comparing similar speakers? Not comparing a $50 tower to a $600 bookshelf speaker here...

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post #8 of 23 Old 08-24-2013, 08:16 AM
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Personally I would get 4 towers if you can easily afford it and are able to place them properly.

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post #9 of 23 Old 08-24-2013, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Arent you leaving volume and presence out of the equation? Wouldnt multiple drivers provide a larger soundstage in most cases if comparing similar speakers? Not comparing a $50 tower to a $600 bookshelf speaker here...

And that's been the angle I've been trying to approach this as well. Wouldn't the multiple 5 1/2 drivers in the FS-52 compared to the one 4 inch driver in the BS-22 provide a bigger soundstage?
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post #10 of 23 Old 08-24-2013, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by butie120 View Post

And that's been the angle I've been trying to approach this as well. Wouldn't the multiple 5 1/2 drivers in the FS-52 compared to the one 4 inch driver in the BS-22 provide a bigger soundstage?
I absolutely think it would. Ask the owners over in the thread link I provided you. They can tell you best.

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post #11 of 23 Old 08-24-2013, 08:32 AM
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btw Just to be sure you know. The towers go on sale for $77 pretty often at Frys.com and Best Buy will price match that.

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post #12 of 23 Old 08-24-2013, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

I cant simply not match the sound of my bookshelf with a sub, with the sound of my towers with the sub.


Why insist that bookshelf with sub will equal the sound of a tower with a sub?
It would depend on the tower and the bookshelf. But in most cases, definitely in this one, I agree with you. Theres more to good sound than just being able to create certain frequencies.

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post #13 of 23 Old 08-24-2013, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

In my case, I did the test with my bookshelf and sub ,the bookshelf didn't approach the sound of the towers with the sub.
That only proves that you did not have the same frequency response with the two setups. If you had there would have been no audible difference.

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post #14 of 23 Old 08-24-2013, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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So there is no advantage to the towers if a bookshelf can reach a similar frequency range? This whole idea of a bigger sound stage is just non-sense?
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post #15 of 23 Old 08-24-2013, 12:47 PM
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So there is no advantage to the towers if a bookshelf can reach a similar frequency range? This whole idea of a bigger sound stage is just non-sense?
On their own a bookshelf won't reach as low as a tower, but that doesn't matter if the tower is only being used as low as a bookshelf, with subs handling the lows. If they're set up the same, they'll sound the same. If they sound different it's because something is different.

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post #16 of 23 Old 08-24-2013, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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So what you are saying is that in this instance if the bookshelf reaches 55hz and the floor standing 40hz and we cross over at 80hz, you would expect no audible difference?
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post #17 of 23 Old 08-24-2013, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

On their own a bookshelf won't reach as low as a tower, but that doesn't matter if the tower is only being used as low as a bookshelf, with subs handling the lows. If they're set up the same, they'll sound the same. If they sound different it's because something is different.
In this case something is very different. You have 3 5.25" drivers vs 1 4" and I wouldnt be surprised if the crossover is different.

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post #18 of 23 Old 08-24-2013, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by butie120 View Post

So what you are saying is that in this instance if the bookshelf reaches 55hz and the floor standing 40hz and we cross over at 80hz, you would expect no audible difference?
Hes not saying anything about this instance. He speaking in general terms. If you want a technical lesson hes the man. If you want to know if the towers sound different from the bookshelfs ask the people who own them.
Good luck.

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post #19 of 23 Old 08-24-2013, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

I will re test everything to see what I did wrong,
That would show up in the in-room measured response. Your ears can tell you if it sounds different, but not why it sounds different. You'd not only want to measure the full system response, but also that of the two sets of mains, both crossed over at the same frequency, with the sub turned off. It's critical to do both measurements with only the speakers changed, while all else in the test setup remains identical. Moving the mic six inches can completely alter the result, as explained here:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/believe.html

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post #20 of 23 Old 08-25-2013, 07:45 AM
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btw Just to be sure you know. The towers go on sale for $77 pretty often at Frys.com and Best Buy will price match that.

Very true. I'm in Canada and these Pioneer speakers are not sold here. I picked up a pair from BB after getting them to price match frys.

I kept hearing so much hype about the sound quality given their bargain-basement price and decided to buy them without even listening to them. When I got them set up in my 5.1 system, I was absolutely shocked by how good they sound for the little amount that I paid.
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post #21 of 23 Old 08-25-2013, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by audit13 View Post

Very true. I'm in Canada and these Pioneer speakers are not sold here. I picked up a pair from BB after getting them to price match frys.

I kept hearing so much hype about the sound quality given their bargain-basement price and decided to buy them without even listening to them. When I got them set up in my 5.1 system, I was absolutely shocked by how good they sound for the little amount that I paid.

Glad they worked out for you. Also glad that you learned an important lesson and that is that price often has little to do with sound quality. Good design and componentry will trump price every time.
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post #22 of 23 Old 08-25-2013, 08:50 AM
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The ability to play lower doesn't matter if you are crossing them with a sub. However, with that said, the FS52 are different from the BS22. they play louder, higher sensitivity, 3 way design (different crossover), rated by audioholics as 8ohm impedance vs 6 ohm for BS22. So yes, they are different and better speakers. See this review to see clear differences http://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/pioneer-sp-pk52fs/pioneer-sp-pk52fs-listening-tests

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post #23 of 23 Old 08-25-2013, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by hdnewbie21 View Post

The ability to play lower doesn't matter if you are crossing them with a sub.

Not always true. I get better midbass by crossing my full range speakers with a sub. I've tried it both ways. I definitly prefer leaving my mains full range.
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