First time setting up from scratch 5.1 setup. Things to look out for? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 26 Old 08-28-2013, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ppilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 12
So I finally bit the bullet and decided to build my own budget 5.1 system as I got really tired of wasting my DTS encoded digital movie library on TV speakers. Also with football season almost here, it would be nice to have a little more immersive feeling while watching games.

The components are the following Denon AVR 2113ci $255
5.0 setup using Pioneer SP-BS22-LR and SP-C22 $257
NXG BAS 500 Sub $259

I've done a bunch of reading about placement of the speakers and Subs but wasn't sure if there was specific settings I should be adjusting beyond what the Audessey system will do.

Thanks for any help!
ppilot is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 Old 08-28-2013, 05:07 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
afrogt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 22,701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 346
Let the Audyssey calibration do its thing. You should do at least 6 position settings around the main listening position.

Then go into the manual settings and changed the speaker size to small for the front, center and surrounds. Also set the crossover to 80hz for all speakers unless Audyssey set them higher than 80hz. In that case leave the speaker at that setting.

Read Batpig's Denon guide, very helpful.
http://batpigworld.com/wp/?page_id=55
ppilot likes this.

Afro GT
afrogt is offline  
post #3 of 26 Old 08-28-2013, 07:06 PM
Senior Member
 
Valtyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 77
It is nice to see someone that has done their research.

Let your receiver work it's magic.
ppilot likes this.
Valtyr is offline  
post #4 of 26 Old 08-28-2013, 08:16 PM
Member
 
elementtw1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I work in HT sales and I see a lot of Denon receivers go bad after a few years. I myself was a big Denon Fan until I had two go bad (one had problems with the DSP and the other HDMI video pass through stopped working). So maybe consider a different receiver. The Pioneer speakers you mentioned sound great. I use the Pioneer SW-8MKII sub with my Polk TSi system and its fantastic! Any reason you are going with a different sub?
ppilot likes this.
elementtw1023 is offline  
post #5 of 26 Old 08-29-2013, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ppilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Let the Audyssey calibration do its thing. You should do at least 6 position settings around the main listening position.

Then go into the manual settings and changed the speaker size to small for the front, center and surrounds. Also set the crossover to 80hz for all speakers unless Audyssey set them higher than 80hz. In that case leave the speaker at that setting.

Read Batpig's Denon guide, very helpful.
http://batpigworld.com/wp/?page_id=55

How about the crossover for the sub? But holy crap, that Batpig guide is insanely comprehensive. Definitely a lot to take in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtyr View Post

It is nice to see someone that has done their research.

Let your receiver work it's magic.

Well it's nice when you have a place like AVS Forum that puts all your background reading in one place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elementtw1023 View Post

I work in HT sales and I see a lot of Denon receivers go bad after a few years. I myself was a big Denon Fan until I had two go bad (one had problems with the DSP and the other HDMI video pass through stopped working). So maybe consider a different receiver. The Pioneer speakers you mentioned sound great. I use the Pioneer SW-8MKII sub with my Polk TSi system and its fantastic! Any reason you are going with a different sub?

Well if the receiver manages to last until the end of the warranty, I figure I will get my money's worth out of it. but I appreciate the heads up on the reliability issues. As for the subwoofer, I wanted to get something a little better as most of the feedback I got was that it was the weak point when compared to the bookshelfs and center. Overall, the NXG seemed to have a good bang for your buck quotient. Anyway, I am putting everything together tonight so I might be back on here with some questions.
Valtyr likes this.
ppilot is offline  
post #6 of 26 Old 08-29-2013, 09:22 AM
Senior Member
 
Valtyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 77
I'm excited to read your thoughts on it. I love your approach at this.

BTW, I love my Denon 1713 and haven't had a single problem with it. I don't work in HT but I have experience. Both Yamaha and Denon have served me just fine.
ppilot likes this.
Valtyr is offline  
post #7 of 26 Old 08-29-2013, 12:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
airgas1998's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 42degsN 92degsW
Posts: 2,156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 95
I would lean on caution of what mr salesman says about denon being a little short in the reliability dept. In fact I would say onkyo may be more prone to issues.
Transmaniacon and Valtyr like this.

Habit Forming....Wallet Burning Hobby....

64" Samsung F8500 Plasma
55" Samsung B8500 Full Array Lcd
Channel Master Dvr
Onkyo 818
Crown xls-2000
Sony Blu-Ray 790
Svs Ultra Towers/Center, Energy Rc-50 Surround
Svs Pb-13 Ultra Sub
airgas1998 is offline  
post #8 of 26 Old 08-30-2013, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ppilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 12
So things have not gone smoothly to put it mildly. Got everything situated and turned on my sub and it starts making a high pitched squeal that is very audible from the main viewing position. So that is going to get returned. The second issue I am having is a little less clear. All my speakers work fine except for the left surround. In the Audyssey setup, it was very clear something was not right as the test tone sounded a little off was was much quieter. This was confirmed when playing a movie, the sound coming from the speaker is very crackly and distorted.

Thinking it might be a speaker problem I switched the surround, but no change at all. Then I thought maybe the wiring was bad so I completely replaced the wiring and made sure the connections to the receiver post were good. Still no change, so I am thinking there is a problem with that speaker post/receiver in general. Does anyone else have any ideas? There is a Denon Super Service center about ten minutes from me and so I might take it into them right after opening and see would be willing to do some quick tests to check it out.
ppilot is offline  
post #9 of 26 Old 08-30-2013, 08:38 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
afrogt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 22,701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 346
do a processor reset first and then recalibrate your system.
ppilot likes this.

Afro GT
afrogt is offline  
post #10 of 26 Old 08-30-2013, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ppilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

do a processor reset first and then recalibrate your system.

I already reset the processor after the initial setup to get the video going and didn't see any change. Should I do it again?
ppilot is offline  
post #11 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 08:38 AM
Senior Member
 
Valtyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Move one of the speakers that you know is working to the left surround position and see if it is the post that is not working or the speaker that is not working. That will help you identify what is wrong.
Valtyr is offline  
post #12 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ppilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtyr View Post

Move one of the speakers that you know is working to the left surround position and see if it is the post that is not working or the speaker that is not working. That will help you identify what is wrong.

Haha....yeah I thought about this right before going to bed and confirmed that the post is in fact bad as the speaker I switched over sounded like crap. So I am going to call Best Buy when they open and see if we can figure something. If I can't find a equitable solution (getting the same dollar value as this was an open box item) I might end up getting it repaired as there is a Denon Super Service center about 10 minutes away from me (would be free under the warranty). Anybody have any experience with repairs on newer receivers?
ppilot is offline  
post #13 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 12:05 PM
Senior Member
 
Valtyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 77
No experience on it, but I wish you well. Mine has worked incredibly well and I really hope Best Buy helps or you can get it fixed. I'm sad to see someone that has put so much time and effort into their selection process being negatively impacted like this.

I wish you well, hopefully someone can help!
ppilot and kkirsche like this.
Valtyr is offline  
post #14 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ppilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtyr View Post

No experience on it, but I wish you well. Mine has worked incredibly well and I really hope Best Buy helps or you can get it fixed. I'm sad to see someone that has put so much time and effort into their selection process being negatively impacted like this.

I wish you well, hopefully someone can help!

Best Buy would only give me my money back as the AVR2113ci is last year's model and it was an open box purchase, so I decided to take it to the repair center (service will be free since under warranty) since anything comparable would end up costing me about $150-$250 more. More than anything else this has really turned me off to open box purchases as you can't just take it back to the store for a replacement if something goes wrong.. Anyway, I should get my receiver back in about week which works well since my replacement sub should get here about the same time. Hopefully everything works from there!
ppilot is offline  
post #15 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 12:38 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
afrogt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 22,701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 346
You got a great price on the 2113CI. The current equivalent is the X2000 but I doubt they'd give you a straight up trade.

A dropoff at the Super Service Center might be in the near future for you. Good luck.

Afro GT
afrogt is offline  
post #16 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 12:38 PM
Senior Member
 
Valtyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 77
They offered you your money back? I think you should take it. How much was it all in all?

You can get the 1713 on Amazon for ~$300 depending on your area you may not have to pay sales tax and the price could end up pretty close to the same.
Valtyr is offline  
post #17 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ppilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

You got a great price on the 2113CI. The current equivalent is the X2000 but I doubt they'd give you a straight up trade.

A dropoff at the Super Service Center might be in the near future for you. Good luck.

That's what I ended up doing. It's free and even afterwards it will have a three year warranty remaining so figured it would makes sense from a monetary standpoint

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtyr View Post

They offered you your money back? I think you should take it. How much was it all in all?

You can get the 1713 on Amazon for ~$300 depending on your area you may not have to pay sales tax and the price could end up pretty close to the same.

Yeah I saw some decent prices on some other receivers, but it wouldn't have the same value as the 2113ci for $255. As I said before, it will be at most a two week wait to get it back so while it's frustrating I am willing to wait.
ppilot is offline  
post #18 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 02:11 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
afrogt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 22,701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 346
You did the right thing. 1713 only has 2 year warranty and is 5.1. Your 2113 has the 3 year warranty and is 7.1, Zone2 plus has 5 analog audio inputs if you need them.
kkirsche likes this.

Afro GT
afrogt is offline  
post #19 of 26 Old 08-31-2013, 11:54 PM
Member
 
elementtw1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Imagine that... a Denon with a problem. Whatever you do, don't listen to a salesman. They're all crooks with minimal training. They know more about selling worthless protection plans than the actual product... pfffftt
elementtw1023 is offline  
post #20 of 26 Old 09-19-2013, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ppilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 12
So after two weeks of waiting, I finally got my receiver back yesterday and set everything up (new sub seems to be ok as there is no squealing sound this time). After being frustrated as heck the first while attaching the speaker wire to the post (didn't leave enough slack to pull completely out of media center cabinet) I used sewell deadbolts with my 14awg monoprice wire. First thing I thought when I turned on my HTPC and watched TV is that it sounded quiet, moreso than I remembered without the banana plugs. When playing movies I have to turn it up 60+ to get any fullness/volume at all, even more with the TV, and Pandora radio.

Would the banana plugs affect the sound that much? Maybe I did the setup wrong? I really don't want to remove all the deadbolts, but I am kinda underwhelmed with the sound stage when compared to my girlfriend's take 5 classics and HK AVR1700 I bought her her this last holiday season. I will redo the Audyssey either later tonight or tomorrow to make sure.
ppilot is offline  
post #21 of 26 Old 09-19-2013, 07:38 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
afrogt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 22,701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 346
banana plugs don't do anything to the sound, they just make easier connections.

If you haven't rerun Audyssey yet that may be part of your problem.

Afro GT
afrogt is offline  
post #22 of 26 Old 09-20-2013, 04:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Transmaniacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppilot View Post

So after two weeks of waiting, I finally got my receiver back yesterday and set everything up (new sub seems to be ok as there is no squealing sound this time). After being frustrated as heck the first while attaching the speaker wire to the post (didn't leave enough slack to pull completely out of media center cabinet) I used sewell deadbolts with my 14awg monoprice wire. First thing I thought when I turned on my HTPC and watched TV is that it sounded quiet, moreso than I remembered without the banana plugs. When playing movies I have to turn it up 60+ to get any fullness/volume at all, even more with the TV, and Pandora radio.

Would the banana plugs affect the sound that much? Maybe I did the setup wrong? I really don't want to remove all the deadbolts, but I am kinda underwhelmed with the sound stage when compared to my girlfriend's take 5 classics and HK AVR1700 I bought her her this last holiday season. I will redo the Audyssey either later tonight or tomorrow to make sure.

Check and see if Dynamic Volume is on in your Audyssey settings, I would try turning it off and see if you like the sound better. Also, how far away do you sit from your speakers?

+1 to re-running Audyssey, make sure after your speakers are set to small, the sub level in the receiver is 0.0, and your crossovers are 80-100Hz.

Living Room
Samsung PN60F5300 | Denon DBP-1611 | Roku 3
Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | BIC F-12

Computer
Topping TP23 | NHT SuperZero 2.0 | Velodyne DEQ-8R
Transmaniacon is offline  
post #23 of 26 Old 09-20-2013, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ppilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

banana plugs don't do anything to the sound, they just make easier connections.

If you haven't rerun Audyssey yet that may be part of your problem.

That's what I figured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

Check and see if Dynamic Volume is on in your Audyssey settings, I would try turning it off and see if you like the sound better. Also, how far away do you sit from your speakers?

+1 to re-running Audyssey, make sure after your speakers are set to small, the sub level in the receiver is 0.0, and your crossovers are 80-100Hz.

I am about 7-8 feet from the fronts and center and 5-6 feet from the surrounds. But yeah, I am going to factory reset the receiver and redo the Audyssey setup from scratch to see if that fixes it. Thanks for the other suggestions
ppilot is offline  
post #24 of 26 Old 09-20-2013, 08:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Transmaniacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppilot View Post

That's what I figured.
I am about 7-8 feet from the fronts and center and 5-6 feet from the surrounds. But yeah, I am going to factory reset the receiver and redo the Audyssey setup from scratch to see if that fixes it. Thanks for the other suggestions

I feel like it is something in your settings, at that close you should be able to make those speakers louder than you care to listen to.

Living Room
Samsung PN60F5300 | Denon DBP-1611 | Roku 3
Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | BIC F-12

Computer
Topping TP23 | NHT SuperZero 2.0 | Velodyne DEQ-8R
Transmaniacon is offline  
post #25 of 26 Old 09-21-2013, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ppilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 12
So just an update. I hard reset the receiver and reran the Audyssey setup which resulted in marginal improvement. Going into manual setup I reviewed the level settings and found that the automated setup was putting my center at -6 and my sub at -10. That seemed really low, so I manually adjusted both (along with some smaller adjustments to the other speakers) to much closer to the median everything sounded much much better. I must be doing something wrong with the Audyssey setup for there to such a big problem. Regardless I like the overall sound right now.

Just another quick question, what should should be my crossover for my sub? I currently have it set at 80hz along with the fronts. Also what would be good music for breaking in a subwoofer? I listen to mostly classical while studying, but wasn't sure if another genre would be more effective.
ppilot is offline  
post #26 of 26 Old 09-25-2013, 01:26 PM
Senior Member
 
bmurray716's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kenmore NY
Posts: 312
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
80 is probably a good place to start with the speakers you have selected. I don't think I'd go any lower. remember, that is where it rolls off. the cross-over is not a brick wall. If after listening for a while and given a chance for the sub to break in, you can always bump it up to the next increment (i.e., 100, etc.). enjoy

Sony Bravia KDL32S3000 HDTV | Pioneer VSX-1019AH-K AVR | Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300 HDC HD Cable Box | Sony BDP-S390 BD | Harmony 700| Logitech Squeezbox Classic | Squeezebox Radio | Polk T15 (front - L/R) | Polk OWM 3 (rear) | DefTech ProCenter1000 (center) | Polk DSW Pro 400 Sub
bmurray716 is offline  
Reply Speakers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off