Floorstanding speaker recommendations please -- budget $1500 - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 80 Old 08-30-2013, 01:51 PM
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Both options are nice.

If you went with 2, I'd probably go with the HSU. I think that is what I'd do, sound quality is more important than bass loudness to me.

You cannot go wrong with either option.
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post #62 of 80 Old 08-30-2013, 02:37 PM
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Your receiver will be adequate to run those tower speakers with no problem.

You know, what you could do in lieu of tower speakers is just use subwoofers as bookshelf speaker stands. That is pretty much what most tower speakers are anyway, except the bass from a decent subwoofer is far superior to the bass from most tower speakers. A pair these KEF Q300s on top of a pair of VTF3s would make for a superb stereo system. The KEF Uni-Q driver measure beautifully. Another bookshelf speaker you should checkout would be this Dayton kit. It's gorgeous and it will also have terrific sound quality, better than most finished speakers of the same price, as you do save money on labor. But the labor is very easy and simple, you don't need any special tools, and it wouldn't take long at all to assemble, so it is not at all a big project. Just watch the video on the product page there, it looks real easy.
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post #63 of 80 Old 08-30-2013, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by acousticdelight View Post

Ok, here is what I have based on the recommendations so far. Thank you all for posting!

1. Emp tek towers or bookshelves such as Ascend NRT Sierra-1 or NHT classic 3s with
1(a) Power sound audio XS30 / dual Dayton woofer kit / Rythmic FV15 (OR)
1(b) a pair of SVS PB-12 subs / a pair of Rythmik LV12R subs

2. Monitor Audio RX 6 or any other comparable towers in this price range with smaller subs such as HSU VTF3 / Rythmik LV12R/ Power Sound Audio XS15.

The first option helps me save some money from the speakers and spend more on the subs.

And do I need an amp upgrade if I take option 2? Not sure if the Yamaha RX V675 will have enough juice to power the big tower speakers. Thanks.

Is there any way you can listen to the RX6? I listened to the RS6 a few years ago and came away really impressed. If I had 1k to spend on towers right now they would be my pick. I just like the aesthetics of a tower more.

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post #64 of 80 Old 08-30-2013, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Your receiver will be adequate to run those tower speakers with no problem.

You know, what you could do in lieu of tower speakers is just use subwoofers as bookshelf speaker stands. That is pretty much what most tower speakers are anyway, except the bass from a decent subwoofer is far superior to the bass from most tower speakers. A pair these KEF Q300s on top of a pair of VTF3s would make for a superb stereo system. The KEF Uni-Q driver measure beautifully. Another bookshelf speaker you should checkout would be this Dayton kit. It's gorgeous and it will also have terrific sound quality, better than most finished speakers of the same price, as you do save money on labor. But the labor is very easy and simple, you don't need any special tools, and it wouldn't take long at all to assemble, so it is not at all a big project. Just watch the video on the product page there, it looks real easy.

I like the option of using the twin subs as bookshelf stands. What do you think is the best performing bookshelf speaker in this range ($600 to $800)? I like the look of KEF Q300s, and I see that the NHT 300s have great reviews as well. The Ascend Sierra 1 series might well be over my budget again if I spend at least $1500 on the subs smile.gif There are just way too many options in this segment!
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post #65 of 80 Old 08-30-2013, 03:48 PM
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Towers with sub sounds better to me than bookshelf with sub more dynamic and bigger sound also better midbass.
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post #66 of 80 Old 08-30-2013, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by acousticdelight View Post

I like the option of using the twin subs as bookshelf stands. What do you think is the best performing bookshelf speaker in this range ($600 to $800)? I like the look of KEF Q300s, and I see that the NHT 300s have great reviews as well. The Ascend Sierra 1 series might well be over my budget again if I spend at least $1500 on the subs smile.gif There are just way too many options in this segment!

Not having heard the Kef or that particular NHT I would say the NHT is worth the extra money. Much nicer finish, probably a better internal build. It's a three way and reviews place it as one of the best sub $1K monitors you can get.

Not to further complicate your decision but this might be one of the better deals around for high quality monitors-

http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php?p=swan-d2-1se%2B-stand-monitor&products_id=69&osCsid=93338445f56d7515e870c959c28f5630
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post #67 of 80 Old 08-30-2013, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by acousticdelight View Post

I like the option of using the twin subs as bookshelf stands. What do you think is the best performing bookshelf speaker in this range ($600 to $800)?!

A lot of these bookshelf speakers will have different strengths. The KEF, for instance, has terrific off axis performance, so it will sound good in less forgiving acoustic environments than many other speakers. This also lets them sound great even when you are not sitting right on their aim. Sierras would be great too, as well as the NHTs. If you want something that has lots of punch and great dynamics, check out the Klipsch RB-81. Another great kit speaker for this would be the Dayton UA721, it will look nice and have lots of punch thanks to two 7" woofers and a higher end dome tweeter. That has higher quality drivers than the last kit I linked too, but of course it is more expensive. It will have greater dynamics certainly, and probably without Klipsch's tendency toward hot treble.

I would say if you are going to sit 20' away from your speakers like you originally intended too, I would go for one of these more dynamic speakers like Klipsch or the Dayton UA721 kit, however if you are sitting at the 12' distance against a wall, you wouldn't need those higher dynamics. I guess how loud you like to listen is a factor as well.
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post #68 of 80 Old 08-30-2013, 04:14 PM
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shadyJ that's a very good choice ^^^^^^^^the klipsch and Dayton best choice so far for bookshelf.

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post #69 of 80 Old 08-30-2013, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Menasor View Post

Is there any way you can listen to the RX6? I listened to the RS6 a few years ago and came away really impressed. If I had 1k to spend on towers right now they would be my pick. I just like the aesthetics of a tower more.

Yes, I found a dealer in my area who has the RX 6, so I am planning to audition it! Thanks.
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post #70 of 80 Old 08-30-2013, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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A lot of these bookshelf speakers will have different strengths. The KEF, for instance, has terrific off axis performance, so it will sound good in less forgiving acoustic environments than many other speakers. This also lets them sound great even when you are not sitting right on their aim. Sierras would be great too, as well as the NHTs. If you want something that has lots of punch and great dynamics, check out the Klipsch RB-81. Another great kit speaker for this would be the Dayton UA721, it will look nice and have lots of punch thanks to two 7" woofers and a higher end dome tweeter. That has higher quality drivers than the last kit I linked too, but of course it is more expensive. It will have greater dynamics certainly, and probably without Klipsch's tendency toward hot treble.

I would say if you are going to sit 20' away from your speakers like you originally intended too, I would go for one of these more dynamic speakers like Klipsch or the Dayton UA721 kit, however if you are sitting at the 12' distance against a wall, you wouldn't need those higher dynamics. I guess how loud you like to listen is a factor as well.

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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

shadyJ that's a very good choice ^^^^^^^^the klipsch and Dayton best choice so far for bookshelf.

Thank you for opening up a whole new bunch of options! I like the great dynamics in these speakers, which I think should sound good for action movies and rock music.
I also auditioned the Klipsch RF 82 towers after work today and found them a little too bright. I could feel my ears ringing after listening to some classic rock music for about 15 mins. Not sure if it was a bad set up or I played them too loud.
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post #71 of 80 Old 08-30-2013, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Towers with sub sounds better to me than bookshelf with sub more dynamic and bigger sound also better midbass.

So for a 2.1 setup, does it mean we usually set the cutoff frequency lower in the case of towers with better frequency response? Or do you enable the extra bass option and allow the towers to work along with the subwoofer for the low frequency components?
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post #72 of 80 Old 08-30-2013, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by acousticdelight View Post

So for a 2.1 setup, does it mean we usually set the cutoff frequency lower in the case of towers with better frequency response? Or do you enable the extra bass option and allow the towers to work along with the subwoofer for the low frequency components?

You could do either. It's mostly recommended that you just let the subs handle the bass, because usually subs have a lot easier time with lower frequencies than the woofers in towers. Bass from the tower woofers will run into distortion long before a decent sub driver will start to distress. Sub drivers are made exclusively for that region of bass, whereas the bass woofers in tower speakers may have to stay linear well past 1 Khz and sometimes much higher. That makes it not nearly as efficient for handling such a narrow range like subwoofer drivers do.
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post #73 of 80 Old 08-30-2013, 10:31 PM
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Tuning Frequency Relationship Between Subwoofer and Speakers

Speakers, particularly woofers, are designed to work within a calculated volume to achieve optimal performance. Bass Reflex speakers/subwoofers use a port or opening to tune the cabinet to a certain frequency to ensure optimal frequency response and dampening characteristics for the system. It is usually desirable for the speakers and subwoofer to be tuned to about the same frequency. It is also a good rule of thumb to crossover the sub at one octave abouve the 3dB point of the main speakers for optimal blend and uniform bass response of the system as a whole. For example, if the lower bass extension (-3dB point) of your main loudspeakers is 30Hz, then crossing over the subwoofer at 60Hz will usually deliver a more uniform response between the main speakers and subwoofer. This usually helps to maintain proper mechanical phase between the subwoofer and speakers resulting in a seamless blend between the two. This point is mostly important when matching large bass capable speakers with a subwoofer, and usually becomes less of an issue when blending a pair of small, bass deficient speakers with a subwoofer.
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post #74 of 80 Old 08-31-2013, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

It is usually desirable for the speakers and subwoofer to be tuned to about the same frequency.
I can't think of a reason why you'd want to do that. First off, tuning frequency and the low frequency f3 may be close, but they're seldom the same. Where response is concerned f3 is what matters. Second, there's no benefit for the f3 of the mains to be any lower than the crossover frequency to the subs. In most cases having the f3 of the mains significantly lower than the crossover actually lessens how well they work above f3. As for having the same f3 for the mains and subs, you'd only get a benefit from that if the same low frequency signal was being sent to both the mains and subs, which defeats the purpose of the AVR LFE, and that pretty much defeats the purpose of having subs.
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Towers with sub sounds better to me than bookshelf with sub more dynamic and bigger sound also better midbass.
The simple explanation for that is by overlapping the bandwidths of the towers and subs it's louder, and louder usually sounds subjectively better. If you were to realize the same frequency response with tower/sub versus bookshelf/sub they'd sound the same. If they don't sound the same it's simply because they aren't the same.

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post #75 of 80 Old 08-31-2013, 12:11 PM
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Just because THX specified a suggested LFE cutoff frequency, doesn't mean it is always appropriate for all room/speaker implementations or that it must be blindly followed. Many times its easy to forget what a subwoofer is meant to do. It is meant to act like a subwoofer, not a woofer. The purpose of a subwoofer is to reproduce very low frequencies that most loudspeakers cannot reproduce with authority on their own. In the 5.1 Digital realm, the LFE channel was introduced as a means to alleviate the demand placed on the other channels to deliver low frequencies with ample amounts of "oomph" without limiting the dynamic range. When using an LFE/subwoofer cutoff (-3dB) at 80Hz / 24dB/octave slope, these frequencies are high enough to still have directional perception, especially if the sub is located in close proximity to the listening position. This makes it easier to locate the sub in the listening room and / or reinforcing standing bass waves in the listening room (above 60Hz) by coupling with the bass output from the main speakers if they are configured large.

I didnt understand your theory either. My fronts are f-3 around 65 hz. Based on your thery, i should cross one octave higher so that ends up at 135 hz, that would be way to high.
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post #76 of 80 Old 08-31-2013, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I am sorry if my newbie question has triggered a much deeper discussion on bass management smile.gif I wanted to know if there was any difference in system performance, especially at lower frequencies, between the tower and bookshelf-based systems. Looks like the answer to this question is, as always, "it depends," since there are so many factors involved. Given that I would be moving to a medium or larger configuration (12 or 20') in my new apartment, my gut feeling says that I might be better served with two towers and a quality $800 sub. I might be wrong, since there are many powerful and dynamic bookshelves in the market, which further complicates my decision, and I feel the more options I have the farther I am moving away from making a final decision smile.gif So, I am sticking with the tower-based configuration (unless, of course another interesting option comes along smile.gif)

Looks like the Monitor Audio RX6 has emerged a front runner in this thread for its quality and performance in this price range. Emp tek is definitely a worthy contender given its attractive price point. I am also slightly biased towards the PSBs smile.gif just because I have read a bunch of good reviews online. I will also consider the JBLs and the DTs that were mentioned in this thread. Any other towers you think I need to audition before pulling the trigger? Thanks.
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post #77 of 80 Old 08-31-2013, 02:05 PM
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My vote still for the monitor audio RX6.
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post #78 of 80 Old 08-31-2013, 02:15 PM
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Monitor is known for having a laid back sound as with many of the UK speakers, almost the opposite of the forward sound of Klipsch. I think the RX6 would be good, their measurements are not bad. They don't have a lot of off axis upper treble energy which would certainly suggest a laid back sound, but that isn't a bad thing, its basically a matter of taste. However, a bookshelf speaker would probably do better with respect to cabinet resonance. When you audition them, take your time, and don't be shy on the volume.
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post #79 of 80 Old 08-31-2013, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Monitor is known for having a laid back sound as with many of the UK speakers, almost the opposite of the forward sound of Klipsch. I think the RX6 would be good, their measurements are not bad. They don't have a lot of off axis upper treble energy which would certainly suggest a laid back sound, but that isn't a bad thing, its basically a matter of taste. However, a bookshelf speaker would probably do better with respect to cabinet resonance. When you audition them, take your time, and don't be shy on the volume.

I'm a little surprised at these comments. From all I've read, Monitor Audio - and especially their silver line - are not at all known for having a laid back sound. I own the RX6s and find them anything but laid back. They're lively and forward and not mellow at all. Of all the speakers I've owned, they're probably the most lively and and forward. Now, granted, compared to certain Klipsch models they might seem laid back, but that's like saying I'm short compared to Yao Ming! wink.gif

I should be clear that I'm not saying the RX6s are bad. I have them and like them. But I do find them on the lively/bright side of neutral, if just a little. The Energy RC, PSB, Ascend, and Boston Acoustics speakers I've owned have all been more mellow and laid back than my Monitor Audio speakers.

In their price range, I do think they're good speakers and I recommend them. They have a nice sound and are very well built with great looks. But there are other speakers that are more neutral, and definitely many more that are more laid back, if the OP is looking that way.
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post #80 of 80 Old 08-31-2013, 03:43 PM
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In the end, having owned several speakers in the price range the OP is considering, I should say this:
Most of them sound pretty darn good, and the differences we all like to obsess about are not that big to the average person.
The only way to know what you like is it hear speakers themselves in your own room, and preferably even to live with them a while.

acousticdelight, I don't think you would dislike any of the speakers under consideration, but if you were able to hear them all side-by-side in your room, you would find you had preferences. Since you can't do that, you'll have to rely on other people's opinions, and ultimately pick on looks, price, size, etc. Also consider return possibilities in the unlikely event that you truly don't like whatever you end up buying - but I doubt that will happen.
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