Need Help with Receiver Power - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 08-29-2013, 11:25 PM - Thread Starter
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So the 1222k is darn near impossible to find other than third party or open box. SO i'm looking at other similar Pioneer's. My local Best Buy said they could do the VSX 70 for $575 or the Elite SC-61 for $680.

The VSX 70 doesn't look bad but it's only 90 watts per channel @ 8 ohms. With, given my speaker setup, is that really enough power?:
Speakers:

L/R - Infinity Beta 50's
Center - Infinity C-351
Sides - Infinity 150's
Rears - Infinity OWS-1's

Sub:
Rythmik LV12R

Room Size: Dedicated Theater Room
1200 cubic feet


The SC-61 is rated at 125 watts per channel @ 8 ohms which I feel more comfortable with but is it worth $100 more than the VSX 70.

Can both receivers have an external amp hooked up to them?

Could use some insight here Thanks guys.

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post #2 of 21 Old 08-30-2013, 06:11 AM
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You've been misled a little with the specs.

The SC-61 is rated a 125 watts at 1 Khz. That's a totally useless rating because no one listens to one frequency. That would be like listening to one note.

The advantage of the SC-61 is that it uses class D amplification and runs cooler and is more efficient than most other receivers. It is also certified for 4 ohm speakers.
Quote:
can both receivers have an external amp hooked up to them?

The SC-61 has a full set of preouts so you could add up to a 7 channel amp.

The VSX-70 only has preouts for the front L & R channels so you can add a 2 channel amp.


Since you said both receivers are available at your local Best Buy why don't you take some of your favorite music and try each receiver out. Crank them up a little and see if the power differences are really there.

The SC-61 MSRP is $1100 while the VSX-70 is $750 the $100 price difference is not bad at all.

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post #3 of 21 Old 08-30-2013, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh wow I must've missed that but you're right. Hmmm any idea what it's rated 20-20k?

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post #4 of 21 Old 08-30-2013, 04:52 PM
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If it ain't published then I have no clue.

If I were to guess its probably close to the 90W rating of the other receiver but have no way to be sure.

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post #5 of 21 Old 08-30-2013, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

So the 1222k is darn near impossible to find other than third party or open box. SO i'm looking at other similar Pioneer's. My local Best Buy said they could do the VSX 70 for $575 or the Elite SC-61 for $680.

The VSX 70 doesn't look bad but it's only 90 watts per channel @ 8 ohms. With, given my speaker setup, is that really enough power?:
Speakers:

L/R - Infinity Beta 50's
Center - Infinity C-351
Sides - Infinity 150's
Rears - Infinity OWS-1's

Sub:
Rythmik LV12R

Room Size: Dedicated Theater Room
1200 cubic feet


The SC-61 is rated at 125 watts per channel @ 8 ohms which I feel more comfortable with but is it worth $100 more than the VSX 70.

Can both receivers have an external amp hooked up to them?

Could use some insight here Thanks guys.

The 1222K is the non elite version of the SC61. No 12 volt trigger, one year less warranty and a few other small things.

Costco had the 1522K for quite a while for $599. Which is the non elite version of the SC65.

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post #6 of 21 Old 08-30-2013, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes. So is 90 watts per channel at 8ohms, 20-20khz enough power for my speaker and room setup? Or should I opt for the higher power of the SC-61? Also, the SC-61 is rater 125 watts per channel at 8ohms at 1khz instead of 20-20khz. What does this mean? The VSX 70 is rated 90 watts per at 8ohms at 20-20khz. Thanks.

Also, would I have any need for 4ohms with my speaker setup?

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post #7 of 21 Old 08-30-2013, 06:31 PM
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Dude, just a buy a receiver already, you're worrying WAY too much about this. You're never going to use the full power of either of these receivers. Plus you can return it to Best Buy if you don't like the way it performs and get the other one. Or if you're deeply worried about it then just buy the more expensive one. then you'll never have to ask yourself "what if?"

What is your room, 15 x 10?


Glad I i didn't go thru all this torture when buying my receivers. I just saw the feature set I wanted and made a purchase. I never worried about the power ratings because unless under extreme circumstances you'll never use half the power in the receiver.

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post #8 of 21 Old 08-30-2013, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Dude, just a buy a receiver already, you're worrying WAY too much about this. You're never going to use the full power of either of these receivers. Plus you can return it to Best Buy if you don't like the way it performs.

What is your room, 15 x 10?

My brother said the same exact thing lol. Just want to get the best bang for my little buck is all. Room is 16.8x10.5

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post #9 of 21 Old 08-30-2013, 06:38 PM
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That's not a big room, just pick one.

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post #10 of 21 Old 08-31-2013, 02:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok bear with me a little longer.

The 1222k and VSX-70 I can get for the same price.

Now the 1222k is rated for 4ohms as well, and has a little more power per channel, plus the newer Class D3 amp.

The VSX-70 doesn't have any of that BUT has a trigger and a second HDMI output for another TV.

I guess what is more important is the actual theater room itself and how well the speakers sound.

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post #11 of 21 Old 08-31-2013, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

Ok bear with me a little longer.

The 1222k and VSX-70 I can get for the same price.

Now the 1222k is rated for 4ohms as well, and has a little more power per channel, plus the newer Class D3 amp.

The VSX-70 doesn't have any of that BUT has a trigger and a second HDMI output for another TV.

I guess what is more important is the actual theater room itself and how well the speakers sound.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree. You've made amplifier power into any speakers, even speakers you don't own, the ultimate criteria.

Given that virtually any amplifier can make just about any reasonable speakers plenty loud for most people (especially with the relatively short listening distances suggested by your room's size) maybe that's not the most important thing.

For about 80% or more of everybody, sound quality is more important than max loud, given that reasonable loudness is pretty much a slam dunk.

The most significant sound quality difference in receivers is based on their automated system optimization facility (Audyssey, MCACC, YPAO).

It seems like the best system optimization facility is Audyssey Xt32. None of the receivers you have been talking about seem to be in the picture.

And, the most significant variable in system sound quality is room acoustics, not electronics.
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post #12 of 21 Old 08-31-2013, 06:28 AM
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That 1222k looks like a winner. Plenty of power, the MCACC programming, networking, and Pioneer's latest amplifier technology.
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post #13 of 21 Old 08-31-2013, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

If it ain't published then I have no clue.

If I were to guess its probably close to the 90W rating of the other receiver but have no way to be sure.

Here are some measurements of the SC-61: http://www.hometheater.com/content/pioneer-elite-sc-61-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

So it can get up to 150 watts with 2 channels. 127 watts with 5 channels driven.

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post #14 of 21 Old 08-31-2013, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for that link. Now I wonder if the VSX-70 has even less that 90 because in the manual it says those specs but only for the front(stereo). nothing about 7 channels driven at all. What should I take from this?

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post #15 of 21 Old 08-31-2013, 02:16 PM
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You should take that it has 90W x 2, but it will be less for 5 or 7 speakers. Most mfrs rate their receivers with only 2 channels driven. Its very common.

In all reality you're worrying way too much about this. It doesn't take much power to drive your speakers. If you need the 2 HDMI outputs then get the VSX-70. If you're concerned about more power get the SC-1222 or SC-61.

If it were me I'd get the 1222 since its the same price as the VSX-70. I'd have no need for the extra HDMI out.

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post #16 of 21 Old 08-31-2013, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I finally found some lab tests:
VSX-70 7 channels driven 59.6 watts per
SC-61(1222k) 7 channels driven 99.4 watts per

I won't be able to get the Pioneer warranty on the 1222 because it's through third party on Amazon though. I haven't really read about any of these Pioneer models having major issues, but a nice warranty will help me sleep at night. I COULD get the Squaretrade warranty through Amazon for an additional $55.

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post #17 of 21 Old 08-31-2013, 02:41 PM
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Well depending where you live you may not have to pay sales tax on Amazon. That pretty much covers the square trade warranty. Best Buy will charge you tax unless you live in one of the five states with no sales tax.

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post #18 of 21 Old 08-31-2013, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah very true. Apparently from what I understand of the Squaretrade warranty, you get repair cost equal to the cost of the item purchased. If they are not able to repair it within their allotted time they reimburse you. Sounds pretty good to me unless someone can correct me?

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post #19 of 21 Old 09-01-2013, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

I finally found some lab tests:
VSX-70 7 channels driven 59.6 watts per
SC-61(1222k) 7 channels driven 99.4 watts per
Even with this apparent huge difference in power, that is only 2 dB difference. Plus, I can't see many soundtracks pushing all channels to the max at the same time. Just doesn't happen.

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post #20 of 21 Old 09-01-2013, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you get that is' only 2db difference because the 59 would need to be doubled in order to get 3db?

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post #21 of 21 Old 09-02-2013, 04:26 PM
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10 log(99.4/59.6) = 2.2 dB

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