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post #1 of 28 Old 08-29-2013, 11:50 PM - Thread Starter
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My wife insists on placing the TV and the viewing sofa in opposite corners of a fairly large family room, so I'm struggling finding the right place for my 6.1 speakers.

The first picture is of the from the sofa (the end table stand is temporary until we can find the right piece of furniture). For scale, the TV is 70". The TV forms a triangle with the walls, but the walls are not the same length, and neither is long enough to provide the separation you're suppose to have for the front surround speakers (30 deg from the viewing position). I could place the left one on the other side of the left side doorway near the ceiling, but to match that on the right would require mounting one right in the middle of the ceiling...pretty sure the wife won't go for that.

The center speaker pretty much has to go either in the corner above the TV or mounted to the top of the TV (I'm considering using the wall mount holes in the back of the TV to fashion a speaker mount extending lust above the screen).



This picture shows the main seating. Like the TV the sofa is jammed into the corner. The farther apart I separate the speakers, the more forward relative to the listener they have to move. Current thought is to put one right at the edge of the fireplace "frame" and match the location on the other side best I can (about where the small lamp is now). I currently have a single speaker sitting on the floor behind the sofa to create some imaging...that is the "6" in the 6.1.



Looking for thoughts and/or recommendations as to the best place for the surround speakers.

Thanks for looking!

(edit: clicking on the pictures provides a larger version)

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post #2 of 28 Old 08-30-2013, 11:55 AM
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What is on the wall to the left of the TV. Looks to be some sort of cabinet. Can you move the TV to where that other cabinet is. You could buy a better stand / cabinet for the TV and put center channel speaker below TV as well as AV equipment.

I am not a fan of TV above fireplace. You probably don't have enough room for TV and center channel above fireplace in any event.

I assume you have thought of this as well as keeping TV where it is and buying a corner cabinet. But based on your comments a corner cabinet would likely extend into the door. This still may be your best get. Find some stand that can house AV equipment and center channel speaker below the TV and keep where TV is currently located.

It may be helpful to draw a simple outline of the room configuration.
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post #3 of 28 Old 08-30-2013, 09:11 PM - Thread Starter
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My bad for not stating the fundamental requirement...TV can't be moved. I had that conversation multiple times...

But yes, that's an old TV cabinet that we now use to store DVDs etc...

We are planning a cabinet for the corner, but corner units are very hard to find. Here's a layout...

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post #4 of 28 Old 08-31-2013, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roscoe View Post

My wife insists on placing the TV and the viewing sofa in opposite corners of a fairly large family room,
What power binoculars do you use to see the TV? eek.gif
It's common for wives, who don't care if it sounds good so long as it looks good, to insist on the worst possible audio compromises. You're also stuck with it not looking good, unless you're trying to duplicate watching movies from the last row in the theater, or sports from the bleacher seats. The only cure for this impasse is Man Cave, which not only offers you the opportunity to reclaim your male dignity, but you also regain control of the remote.wink.gif
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post #5 of 28 Old 08-31-2013, 10:57 AM
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Just to add a female perspective here, that setup is, and looks, gawd awful!!! And that's before you even get to the audio challenges. If I were you, when she's not around move the TV either to the left of the hallway or along the left side wall. Move some appropriate seating close to the TV to create a cozy effect. Maybe she just can't visualize how much better the room could look.
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post #6 of 28 Old 08-31-2013, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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We've dragged the sofa around numerous times and I can't convincer her. And the TV is not as far as you may think, the wide angle lens exaggerated the distance; we sit at 16 feet. Yes, that is more than I'd like but I bought the biggest TV I could afford (70").

Can we please go back to my original question? Where is the best location for the speakers? I put three options on a picture (note the TV is centered in the corner better now after I took this picture). The red gives the best separation but requires a speaker in the middle of an open ceiling, may be a hard sell. The Blue dots are easier to sell but less separation. Both of those are much higher than the TV (not sure if that's an issue or not). The orange dots keep the speakers at TV level but hard to get much separation.

An idea I just had doing this is to put the speakers on stands that can be moved outward when watching a movie and can be pushed back in for normal TV watching.

Thoughts and ideas? About speaker placement? smile.gif


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post #7 of 28 Old 09-01-2013, 04:42 PM
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What is your budget?

Do you have speakers already?

You might consider in ceiling. If you go in ceiling the LCR should all be at same height.

You will want to get in ceiling that have aimable tweaters.

Or skip 6.1 altogether and go sound bar route.
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post #8 of 28 Old 09-01-2013, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Already have the speakers that I brought from a previous house. In ceiling is too expensive. As for sound bars, I tried that but I don't detect any imaging at all. Going the classical route...or trying to anyway.

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post #9 of 28 Old 09-02-2013, 08:33 AM
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Looks like you are going to have to experiment. If the speakers are not blocked, then I would place to the left and righ of the TV. I would place your center immediately above or below the TV at an angle facing your sofa. If speakers are blocked I think your blue circles seem to make sense.

The reality is that the placement of your furniture gives you lousy options.

Good luck.
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post #10 of 28 Old 09-02-2013, 12:16 PM
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Basically, and as everyone has said, in that room and arraignment you are hosed sound wise. Just place the speakers wherever the wife likes them and enjoy. smile.gif

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post #11 of 28 Old 09-02-2013, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Basically, and as everyone has said, in that room and arraignment you are hosed sound wise. Just place the speakers wherever the wife likes them and enjoy. smile.gif
lol

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post #12 of 28 Old 09-02-2013, 12:44 PM
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My vote would be for the blue dots. If you are using bookshelf speakers these are great mounts.
http://www.amazon.com/Pinpoint-AM-40B-Clamping-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B002UV03MW/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1378150982&sr=1-1&keywords=pinpoint+mounts

Good luck.

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post #13 of 28 Old 09-02-2013, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roscoe View Post

As for sound bars, I tried that but I don't detect any imaging at all..



Not Cheap, but Artison LCRDM-MK2 Series (link) semi-custom either-side-of-tv speaker extensions might meet your (wife's) criteria.

Disclaimer: I have not heard this technology in use.
_

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post #14 of 28 Old 09-02-2013, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

My vote would be for the blue dots.
Curious why Blue (higher) rather than Orange (even with picture) since the Blue aren't that much wider...?
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If you are using bookshelf speakers these are great mounts.

Actually not bookshelf but Mirage surround speakers with rear mounts.

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post #15 of 28 Old 09-02-2013, 07:08 PM
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16 feet is fine for a 120" screen...

I think true imaging will be lost. I would go 4.1 with phantom center myself. 6.1, stick the 3 fronts immediately beside and below the TV, side surrounds on the wall immediately beside and slightly above the couch and the rear-center out from the corner a foot or so. sounds should at least be clear and in the general direction that they are intended to be.

How about flip the room. TV beside fireplace and couch next to hallway?

Good luck.
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post #16 of 28 Old 09-02-2013, 07:10 PM
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Blue would be wider apart. Should provide improved imaging and a larger soundstage. They would also be more out of the way. Mount them up high and tilt them down. Pointed directly at the couch would probably be best.

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post #17 of 28 Old 09-02-2013, 07:16 PM
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Yi. You need 3 speaker stands for around the couch. Put the surrounds at ear level and get that back surround speaker off of the floor.

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post #18 of 28 Old 09-02-2013, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

You need 3 speaker stands for around the couch. Put the surrounds at ear level and get that back surround speaker off of the floor.
That's my plan

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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Blue would be wider apart. Should provide improved imaging and a larger soundstage. They would also be more out of the way. Mount them up high and tilt them down. Pointed directly at the couch would probably be best.
I think that's where I'm going (Unless I can convince the wife to let me go with the wider red dots (I think that's the least she can do...)

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Originally Posted by lespurgeon View Post

16 feet is fine for a 120" screen...
Nothing I can do about that. 70" was all I could afford and I can't sit closer, so...
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I think true imaging will be lost. I would go 4.1 with phantom center myself.
Not sure what that means.

Quote:
6.1, stick the 3 fronts immediately beside and below the TV, side surrounds on the wall immediately beside and slightly above the couch and the rear-center out from the corner a foot or so. sounds should at least be clear and in the general direction that they are intended to be.
Seems to be the consensus
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How about flip the room. TV beside fireplace and couch next to hallway?
Tried, but the bulk of the sofa made that impractical; I was willing to try it but wife said "H... No" She's compromised on many things for me (like moving to Las vegas for my job) so I'm caving on this one. Just trying to do the best I can...

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post #19 of 28 Old 09-02-2013, 07:50 PM
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4.1 with a phantom center just means you dont use a center.
I wouldnt want to put the fronts too far apart either. If you put them ceiling height and too far apart like the red dots it might not sound so good especially with such small speakers. If you separated 2 floor towers that much it would be different.

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post #20 of 28 Old 09-02-2013, 07:52 PM
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Btw Where are you putting the sub?

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post #21 of 28 Old 09-02-2013, 08:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

4.1 with a phantom center just means you dont use a center.
Ah...
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I wouldnt want to put the fronts too far apart either. If you put them ceiling height and too far apart like the red dots it might not sound so good especially with such small speakers. If you separated 2 floor towers that much it would be different.
They're pretty good speakers, they worked pretty well in the old house like that. When I put together my first system (previous house, same speakers) I was told 30 degree of center. In this case that would be 8 ft (red dots).
Quote:
Btw Where are you putting the sub?
It's in the picture and the drawing (below right of the TV). Not sure I like that because it's on hard tile so I'm sure I'm getting some wicked multipath, but again, I don't have many options.

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post #22 of 28 Old 09-02-2013, 08:28 PM
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Put the sub on a piece of carpet or a bathroom type rug.

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post #23 of 28 Old 09-02-2013, 08:31 PM
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In fact, behind the couch would probably be the best place for the sub. That would probably make a big difference. You cant be getting much out of that sub that far away.
Matter of fact, if you can afford it, leave that one there and put a second one behind the couch.

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post #24 of 28 Old 09-02-2013, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Good idea...I'll have to look into that. It's carpeted back there too.

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post #25 of 28 Old 09-03-2013, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

In fact, behind the couch would probably be the best place for the sub. That would probably make a big difference. You cant be getting much out of that sub that far away.
Matter of fact, if you can afford it, leave that one there and put a second one behind the couch.

That's what I was thinking also :

Were the size of your speakers and power of your amp ever stated ? > For optimal listening speakers should be 42" -48" off floor so as to center upon your ears .

If I were You I'd get a custom cabinet maker to build a piece of furniture for the TV raising it up ,incorporating your left and right speakers where the yellow or whatever color dots are next too the TV are. Center channel above center of TV or on top of new TV cabinet . Now as for the rear left and rights , I'd place those equal distances at right angles off of your couch ; Thus making a triangle of sound with couch centered and sub behind .

Get some Styrofoam or use wood battens for support and heavy cardboard boxes and tape them up , use that to mock up sound arrangement and sit down tune in . Try different locations or heights until YOUR SATISFIED , then measure draw up the TV cabinet and find a cabinet maker and have em build exactly what YOU WANT AND NEED . Your happy Wife should be happy everybody wins ...
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post #26 of 28 Old 09-03-2013, 09:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I had that thought yesterday...we have a couple of talented wood workers in our church that are looking for work. I was thinking of asking one of them to make one for us. One big advantage...my Onkyo receiver runs really hot meaning it can't sit in a closed cabinet that I'm sure my wife will want. A custom unit can have small computer fans installed to move the air through and out the back.

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post #27 of 28 Old 09-03-2013, 09:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DocCarbon View Post

Were the size of your speakers and power of your amp ever stated ?
http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-loudspeakers/speaker-systems/mirage-avs-series-microsystem.html

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post #28 of 28 Old 09-04-2013, 01:37 AM
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You badly need a subwoofer for a good home theater experience. That 8" mid bass module you have wont cut it in any room let alone yours. No offense. Just sayin...

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