1.5k budget in need of 5.1 surround sound gurus needed for advice - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 09-02-2013, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Well my hearing is not as god as it was when I was twenty, and my soundbar just is not cutting it. I am in need of advice for a nice 5.1 surround sound setup with new receiver. After selling of my ps3 goodies and some other things I have about $1,500.00 to spend. Please help me spend my money lol..

here are my wants
1.receiver must have hdmi pass through, and ability for 4k maybe wireless to future proof it
2. Front left and right channel must be floor standing
3. rears and center must be bookshelf or wall mountable

here is my current equipment
oppo 93
65in gt30

my room is 16x16
piks

the room itself
null_zps181b389b.jpg

rear bookshelves on top of planter (sry i am painting house) lol
null_zpsb7d8f2f8.jpg

front
null_zps9e2be72e.jpg

It's all fun and games until my wife notices something new in the entertainment center
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post #2 of 20 Old 09-02-2013, 02:13 PM
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At that budget the two must recommended speakers here are the HSU http://www.hsuresearch.com/speakers.html and ascend http://www.ascendacoustics.com/


Also Andrew Jone's Pioneers speakers http://www.pioneerelectronics.com ,emp tek www.emptek.com ,HTD http://www.htd.com/


For a receiver I recommend this store, very hard to beat price http://www.accessories4less.com/

Panasonic 65VT60 / Marantz SR7005 / Marantz UD7007 /PSA XS30 /Revel Performa3 F206 / Revel Performa3 C205 / Revel Surrounds/Sonos Connect/ Roku 3 / Amazon Fire tv / Xbox One / HTPC / Darbee 5000 /Sonos play:1 for bedrooms,kitchen,bathroom/Master bedroom Sonos sound bar/Sonos sub and Sonos play 1 surrounds.
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post #3 of 20 Old 09-02-2013, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

At that budget the two must recommended speakers here are the HSU http://www.hsuresearch.com/speakers.html and ascend http://www.ascendacoustics.com/


Also Andrew Jone's Pioneers speakers http://www.pioneerelectronics.com ,emp tek www.emptek.com ,HTD http://www.htd.com/


For a receiver I recommend this store, very hard to beat price http://www.accessories4less.com/

Yeah I'd have to agree with that. The problem with the Pioneer setup though IMO is the sub you're stuck with.
Well not really stuck with but after buying the complete setup I doubt you're going to turn around and buy another sub.
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post #4 of 20 Old 09-02-2013, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Are the pioneer's really that good?? I don't really trust cnet as they tend to be biast, I am a cable tech and I know in recent years after they stopped making plasmas that build quality on receivers and things has been terrible.. I personally had two receivers go bad from them, and have seen countless customers have their receivers bad as well..

It's all fun and games until my wife notices something new in the entertainment center
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post #5 of 20 Old 09-02-2013, 04:08 PM
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^^^ I personally haven't heard them but from the little that I've read the people who have had said great things about them for their price point.
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post #6 of 20 Old 09-02-2013, 04:37 PM
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^^^^^^I was referring about speakers no the subs.

Panasonic 65VT60 / Marantz SR7005 / Marantz UD7007 /PSA XS30 /Revel Performa3 F206 / Revel Performa3 C205 / Revel Surrounds/Sonos Connect/ Roku 3 / Amazon Fire tv / Xbox One / HTPC / Darbee 5000 /Sonos play:1 for bedrooms,kitchen,bathroom/Master bedroom Sonos sound bar/Sonos sub and Sonos play 1 surrounds.
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post #7 of 20 Old 09-02-2013, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by JRoX85 View Post

Are the pioneer's really that good?? I don't really trust cnet

Here some reviews


http://hometheaterreview.com/pioneer-sp-fs52-floor-standing-loudspeaker-reviewed/

http://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/pioneer-sp-pk52fs

http://www.hometheater.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-speaker-system

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-loudspeaker

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post #8 of 20 Old 09-02-2013, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you losser, I think I will go ahead and place an order for the pioneer's. My next question is do you think my pioneer sw-8 sub will suffice in a 16x16 room??

It's all fun and games until my wife notices something new in the entertainment center
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post #9 of 20 Old 09-02-2013, 08:07 PM
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I absolutely would not use the pioneer sub woofer. I would buy the speakers (left, right, center, and pair of bookshelves) individually without the sub and save yourself the $60. I own those speakers and I can tell you that they are fantastic. I love them and can not come up with a better value. They sound like they cost A LOT more.

This is what I would do for $1500

Left and right- Pioneer SP-FS52 $124.99
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Pioneer---5-1/4%26%2334%3B-Floor-Speaker-%28Each%29/5086937.p?id=1218610014331&skuId=5086937

Center- Pioneer SP-C22 $99.99
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Pioneer---Dual-4%22-Center-Channel-Speaker/5086891.p?id=1218610015437&skuId=5086891

Surrounds- Pioneer SP-BS22-LR $129.99 (Pair)
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Pioneer---4%26%2334%3B-Bookshelf-Speakers-%28Pair%29/5086955.p?id=1218610014045&skuId=5086955

Subwoofer- SVS PB-1000 $499.99
https://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb-1000

Receiver- Denon AVR-X2000 $599.99
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Denon+-+IN-Command+1295W+7.1-Ch.+Network-Ready+4K+Ultra+HD+and+3D+Pass-Through+A/V+Home+Theater+Receiver/7928053.p?id=1218862378451&skuId=7928053

This will bring the house down. Check out reviews of the Sub if you haven't yet. It blows people away for the price. Plus they have a 45 day in home trial and if you are unhappy SVS will pay for you to ship it back. If you want to save a little you can find a great receiver for much less on the site that was mentioned earlier http://www.accessories4less.com/
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post #10 of 20 Old 09-02-2013, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bluegraysky22 View Post

Subwoofer- SVS PB-1000 $499.99
https://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb-1000

+1

Great sub choice to pair with those speakers. In fact, Audioholics recommended it in their review of the Pioneer speakers. Whatever you do, don't buy the Pioneer sub. It does not have enough output and does not have enough low frequency extension for a home theater sub. If you have go cheaper than the PB-1000, then look into the NXG NX-BAS-500.

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post #11 of 20 Old 09-03-2013, 07:52 AM
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A couple of great subwoofers are the Hsu VTF2 and the Rythmik LV12r. Both are only $100 more than the PB1000, but they will both be much higher performers. It looks like you have kids anyway, the VTF2 might be good for you, as it is a down-firing so the woofer is protected from curious kids.
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post #12 of 20 Old 09-03-2013, 08:00 AM
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A couple of great subwoofers are the Hsu VTF2 and the Rythmik LV12r. Both are only $100 more than the PB1000, but they will both be much higher performers.

While there is Jim Wilson's review of the LV12R in which he says that it has the "edge" over the PB-1000 (not sure if that translates to much higher performer), do have any data/reviews to support the VTF2 recommendation? Or is this just more anti SVS rhetoric?

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post #13 of 20 Old 09-03-2013, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

While there is Jim Wilson's review of the LV12R in which he says that it has the "edge" over the PB-1000 (not sure if that translates to much higher performer), do have any data/reviews to support the VTF2 recommendation? Or is this just more anti SVS rhetoric?
You know very well where a smaller and lesser driver in a smaller cabinet is going to leave the PB1000 with respect to the VTF2.
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post #14 of 20 Old 09-03-2013, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

You know very well where a smaller and lesser driver in a smaller cabinet is going to leave the PB1000 with respect to the VTF2.

How do you know it's a lesser driver? Could be much more sensitive. You are guessing. I don't which is better.

Meanwhile, Sound and Vision's measurements of the PB-1000 show it to be comparable to the HSU's measurements of the VTF-2.

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post #15 of 20 Old 09-03-2013, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

How do you know it's a lesser driver? Could be much more sensitive. You are guessing. I don't which is better.

Meanwhile, Sound and Vision's measurements of the PB-1000 show it to be comparable to the HSU's measurements of the VTF-2.
Lol, Sound and Visions measurements show the PB1000 to be just behind the PC13 in CEA output. It also beats the PC12 NSD and absolutely owns the SB13, according to S&V. If we are to take S&V's measurements seriously, the PB1000 is bar none the absolute greatest sub value of all time. SVS's and Hsu's own internal measurements are at least consistent within their product lines. And even then, I wouldn't use their data to compare with other data sets, not Josh Ricci's and especially not S&V's.

As for the PB1000's driver, supposedly it is fairly light so I would guess it is more sensitive. However, last I heard the VTF2s were using the same driver as the VTF3s, and that thing is a brute. You are right that I am guessing here, but I think its almost certain that the PB100s driver is much inferior to that of the VTF2.
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post #16 of 20 Old 09-03-2013, 09:29 AM
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SVS has repeatedly told people that the output of the PB-1000 is within 3db of the PB12. So yeah. S&Vs measurements may be off. But even within 3db of the PB12, that could put it close to the VTF-2. No way to tell without consistent measurements from the same source smile.gif

BTW: Driver weight doesn't tell you anything unless you know the types of magnets being used.

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post #17 of 20 Old 09-03-2013, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Lol, Sound and Visions measurements show the PB1000 to be just behind the PC13 in CEA output. It also beats the PC12 NSD and absolutely owns the SB13, according to S&V. If we are to take S&V's measurements seriously, the PB1000 is bar none the absolute greatest sub value of all time. SVS's and Hsu's own internal measurements are at least consistent within their product lines. And even then, I wouldn't use their data to compare with other data sets, not Josh Ricci's and especially not S&V's.

As for the PB1000's driver, supposedly it is fairly light so I would guess it is more sensitive. However, last I heard the VTF2s were using the same driver as the VTF3s, and that thing is a brute. You are right that I am guessing here, but I think its almost certain that the PB100s driver is much inferior to that of the VTF2.

You sure do seem to make friends on every thread you post! cool.gif

I will give you that S&V's numbers are not consistent. So throw those out. The lower extension on the manufacturer's graphs of the PB1000 and LV12R look identical, and they are both rated wtih -3dB at 19Hz. SVS has always published graphs and specs that have been shown to be verified by third party testers, including Ricci, many times. So I doubt that the LV12R will play much lower. No doubt the extra $100 and bigger drive will deliver more output. How much more, I am not sure. It is up to the OP to decide if it is worth the extra money. As for the HSU, I can't seem to find many third party reviews or measurements. Do you have a link?

As far as the driver, here is a section of Jim Wilson's LV12R review:

The 12" driver isn't particularly impressive to behold, completely absent exotic materials for the cone or basket. Instead what you'll find seems pretty standard; treated paper cone, stamped steel basket and a fairly thin rubber surround (thin, as in material thickness). There are dual slug magnets, a sizable voice coil bump-out and a 1" cooling vent, but those are pretty standard for this class of subwoofer. The driver itself is only held in with wood screws too, so you certainly would be forgiven if you thought this setup was nothing special. But upon closer examination you see there are two sets of leads connecting the driver to the amp, one of which is marked "Servo". That's when you begin to realize looks are deceiving, and that perhaps something else is afoot.

He goes on to discuss the servo stuff in depth, but he does not seem to impressed with the driver itself, FWIW.

Here is his section on the SVS drivers:

The drivers are a long throw design utilizing what appears to be a polypropylene cone, along with a huge half-roll rubber surround. They're only held in place by wood screws though. There are dual ferrite magnets, a vented pole piece with a bump-out and an FEA (Finite Element Analysis) optimized motor. The frame is stamped steel, with the overall feel and appearance being of a light duty design. Based upon some of the photos I found of the previous generation PB10-ISD/NSD drivers this one doesn't appear to be as robust. One curiosity I noted was there are two sets of wires going to both the positive and negative terminals from the amp. I'm not sure what the purpose of that was.

To me it seems like the only difference is the surround being thicker on the SVS. From these reviews by the same guy I think they are of similar quality. Again, other than an old 2007 review linked on the Hsu site, I can't find much info on the VTF2 driver to declare it is far superior to the PB1000.

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post #18 of 20 Old 09-03-2013, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

SVS has repeatedly told people that the output of the PB-1000 is within 3db of the PB12. So yeah. S&Vs measurements may be off. But even within 3db of the PB12, that could put it close to the VTF-2. No way to tell without consistent measurements from the same source smile.gif

BTW: Driver weight doesn't tell you anything unless you know the types of magnets being used.

I agree a consistent source is needed. However, I think driver weight can tell you something in this case, because in all likelyhood these subs are using high grade ceramic magnets. They certainly aren't using Neodymium at this price point.
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post #19 of 20 Old 09-03-2013, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by NewHTbuyer View Post

You sure do seem to make friends on every thread you post! cool.gif

I will give you that S&V's numbers are not consistent. So throw those out. The lower extension on the manufacturer's graphs of the PB1000 and LV12R look identical, and they are both rated wtih -3dB at 19Hz. SVS has always published graphs and specs that have been shown to be verified by third party testers, including Ricci, many times. So I doubt that the LV12R will play much lower. No doubt the extra $100 and bigger drive will deliver more output. How much more, I am not sure. It is up to the OP to decide if it is worth the extra money. As for the HSU, I can't seem to find many third party reviews or measurements. Do you have a link?

As far as the driver, here is a section of Jim Wilson's LV12R review:

The 12" driver isn't particularly impressive to behold, completely absent exotic materials for the cone or basket. Instead what you'll find seems pretty standard; treated paper cone, stamped steel basket and a fairly thin rubber surround (thin, as in material thickness). There are dual slug magnets, a sizable voice coil bump-out and a 1" cooling vent, but those are pretty standard for this class of subwoofer. The driver itself is only held in with wood screws too, so you certainly would be forgiven if you thought this setup was nothing special. But upon closer examination you see there are two sets of leads connecting the driver to the amp, one of which is marked "Servo". That's when you begin to realize looks are deceiving, and that perhaps something else is afoot.

He goes on to discuss the servo stuff in depth, but he does not seem to impressed with the driver itself, FWIW.

Here is his section on the SVS drivers:

The drivers are a long throw design utilizing what appears to be a polypropylene cone, along with a huge half-roll rubber surround. They're only held in place by wood screws though. There are dual ferrite magnets, a vented pole piece with a bump-out and an FEA (Finite Element Analysis) optimized motor. The frame is stamped steel, with the overall feel and appearance being of a light duty design. Based upon some of the photos I found of the previous generation PB10-ISD/NSD drivers this one doesn't appear to be as robust. One curiosity I noted was there are two sets of wires going to both the positive and negative terminals from the amp. I'm not sure what the purpose of that was.

To me it seems like the only difference is the surround being thicker on the SVS. From these reviews by the same guy I think they are of similar quality. Again, other than an old 2007 review linked on the Hsu site, I can't find much info on the VTF2 driver to declare it is far superior to the PB1000.

I don't know of any third party measurements for the VTF2. according to Hsu it looks to be about 3 dB shy of the VTF3s performance. I do know what a VTF3 can do, and I really doubt the PB1000 can come within 3 dB of the VTF3's max output. I did have an opportunity to play with the LV12's predecessor though, the FV12. That thing was a little beast. I didn't remove the driver, but it didn't seem very powerful on the outside, however it could belt out a tune, no doubt, and it had terrific sound quality. I would be surprised if the PB1000 could match its performance as well. Anyway, this is all speculation, I can't know for sure unless these subs get directly compared with measurements somehow, and that is almost certainly never going to happen.
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post #20 of 20 Old 09-16-2013, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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So I ended up getting some monitor 55t's front L&R monitor 15c for cc and monitor 45b's for rear through newegg's great deal. Now I just need a sub and receiver and I am golden, thinking of either elite vsx-423 or marantz 1504 decisions decisions. yeah I have a daughter she will be three next week. I appreciate all the help so far guys.

It's all fun and games until my wife notices something new in the entertainment center
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