Wanting to 'upgrade' after quite a few years, advice please :) - Focus Movies - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 09-06-2013, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Asked and got some advice on another forum, but as stubborn and inquisitive as I am, I'd like to have some more opinions and advice.

'upgrade' - to me also stands for hearing something different to what I have been used to for the past 7-8 years.

My setup is more or less 99% Movies, it's not bad for music, but movies is the main use of the system.

I'm thinking it's time to upgrade my speakers, but I'm keeping the sub as I like it and it's more than enough for my room.

Still using, after I don't know how many years:
  • mission 772 speakers
  • mission 77c center speaker
  • mordaunt short msb20 rear speakers
  • mordaunt short 309i - I'm keeping hold of this and wanting advice on replacement of the fronts, rears and surrounds. I'm looking at bookshelf speakers for the main L/R as I dont have room for floorstanders.
Changed amp a few times now, definitely prefer Yamaha's, and the current amp is the:
  • Yamaha RX-V765
Just love the sound of the amp.

Room size is approx 18x13ft, I have the missions across the front sound stage (center is in the middle designated spot in my custom build cabinet - Still standing after about 5 years I might add :smashin:) and the sub (behind the cat house under the projector) and msb20's on the rear wall either side of the room.

Some pictures (just a quick couple shots, dont mind them) so you can see what I mean:

Front
front.jpg

Back
back.jpg
.... Yes our two cats are in there, excuse them lazing about.

I'm thinking of going down the Monitor Audio Bronze 2 route, but I'm only going to be able to spend £250 a time every few months or so, unless I have chance to sell my speakers as I go which would be ideal.

The speakers I'm currently looking at, but open to suggestions/advice:
Fronts - Monitor Audio Bronze BX2
Will be wall mounted or either on a shelf or inside my cabinet, not sure on those yet.

Rear - Monitor Audio Bronze BXFX
Will be mounted on the rear wall (which the sofa is up against, or can be mounted on the wall to either side of the room. Doing it that way though the rear right will be a fair bit further away from the listening position than the rear left.
I'm not sure if another two foot would make a difference, as thats all thats in it.

Center - Monitor Audio Bronze BX
Will be placed below the screen in my cabinet.

I'm not sure how long they will continue to be available, but I'm hoping that they will still be available when it comes to buying each set.

I have heard and liked the sound of the MA BX's, and also some Tannoy Mercury V1's. I think I preferred the sound of the MA BX's, which is why I looked into them. (both round mates houses).

I chose this set as the rears are the closest thing I can find to what I already have, I don't like normal bookshelf speakers for rears, and my sofa is right up against the wall so this type of speaker seems the best bet and I like the sound.
I do have the option to wall mount to the side of the listening position.... just, so I have a little more to play with.

I'm unfortunately not in a position to get out to any demo rooms, as they are too far for me to travel, so I only have those sets and my current set for reference.

Any suggestions with regard to upgrade of speaker/quality from what I currently own (to help me avoid side stepping) would be greatly appreciated, and I only really know of a few different sites to purchase from (Richer Sounds, Peter Tyson, Superfi), so if there are other places I can consider that would be great.

Would it be a good idea to buy them over the course of every few months or would it be better to get them altogether?
Or does it really matter if I get the rears first?
I ask this as I'm not sure how long the stores will keep stock of these.

I'm not ruling out the option for satellite speakers to use in conjunction with my sub, but I'm unsure weather satellite speakers are better for movies rather than bookshelf.
So open to suggestions regarding satellite speakers too, just after the best type to use with a primary focus for movies.

Thanks in advance

tris
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post #2 of 31 Old 09-06-2013, 07:29 AM
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If you know you like the sound of the MA Bronze speakers, seems like your decision is already made. MA makes good speakers, so hearing them yourself trumps anyone recommending you different ones over the Internet. smile.gif

I would think that the MA Bronze would be around for a while longer. If you are worried about that, get left, right, and then center. Wait on the rear speakers. Much less critical for them to match than the front.

Most people here are US, so probably won't know good places to buy in the UK. Might have better luck for that kind of recommendation over at AVForums, which is a UK based Internet community.
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post #3 of 31 Old 09-06-2013, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

If you know you like the sound of the MA Bronze speakers, seems like your decision is already made. MA makes good speakers, so hearing them yourself trumps anyone recommending you different ones over the Internet. smile.gif

I would think that the MA Bronze would be around for a while longer. If you are worried about that, get left, right, and then center. Wait on the rear speakers. Much less critical for them to match than the front.

Most people here are US, so probably won't know good places to buy in the UK. Might have better luck for that kind of recommendation over at AVForums, which is a UK based Internet community.

Thanks for the reply.

I know this is a US based site, so not looking for advice on where to buy, more what/if the 'upgrade' would be worth it.

I got my first lot of advice from the AVForums, been a member there since 2004 smile.gif Just wanted to see what the opinions are of you lot over here.

I like getting the advice over the internet, as if I goto a demo (which is a bit of a problem for me in most cases), I feel a bit pressured by sales staff and what not. I like to get good/sometimes even non bias advice and opinions from people who already own/listened to various speakers and the description of the sound is usually pretty accurate.

I have heard the MA Bronze with my ms309i sub and do like them, but I'm wondering if it's good to 'upgrade' for a different sound that I like or upgrade for more quality instead I guess.

Also after looking at any other recommendations that I might get a chance to demo smile.gif

Cheers
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post #4 of 31 Old 09-06-2013, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nero041001 View Post

Thanks for the reply.

I know this is a US based site, so not looking for advice on where to buy, more what/if the 'upgrade' would be worth it.

I got my first lot of advice from the AVForums, been a member there since 2004 smile.gif Just wanted to see what the opinions are of you lot over here.

Oh, I don't mean to make you think not to get advice here. Just as far as places to buy in the UK, seems like the AVForums crowd would be more knowledgeable. Sounds like you probably know better about that than the majority of us here smile.gif
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post #5 of 31 Old 09-06-2013, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by nero041001 View Post

I have heard the MA Bronze with my ms309i sub and do like them, but I'm wondering if it's good to 'upgrade' for a different sound that I like or upgrade for more quality instead I guess.

You probably aren't ready to think about this now, but SVS Sounds, one of the Internet subwoofer vendors that everyone raves about here, has a distributor that sells them in the UK. The SVS PB-1000 would be quite an upgrade over your MS309i. It will extend so much deeper that it would greatly enhance your movie watching experience. Here are a couple of reviews:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2013/04/19/review-svs-pb-1000-subwoofer
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/speaker-subwoofer-reviews/66069-svs-pb1000-sb1000-subwoofer-review.html
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post #6 of 31 Old 09-06-2013, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Oh, I don't mean to make you think not to get advice here. Just as far as places to buy in the UK, seems like the AVForums crowd would be more knowledgeable. Sounds like you probably know better about that than the majority of us here smile.gif

Ah, thank you. I was a little misunderstood.
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

You probably aren't ready to think about this now, but SVS Sounds, one of the Internet subwoofer vendors that everyone raves about here, has a distributor that sells them in the UK. The SVS PB-1000 would be quite an upgrade over your MS309i. It will extend so much deeper that it would greatly enhance your movie watching experience. Here are a couple of reviews:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2013/04/19/review-svs-pb-1000-subwoofer
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/speaker-subwoofer-reviews/66069-svs-pb1000-sb1000-subwoofer-review.html

There are a few more that sell them too, but I like my sub so I'm keeping hold of my that, it's just the front's, center and surrounds I'm looking into replacing smile.gif
(for the time being wink.gif)
Just added that to my first post to avoid confusion.

I'm not ruling out the option for satellite speakers to use in conjunction with my sub, but I'm unsure weather satellite speakers are better for movies rather than bookshelf.
So open to suggestions regarding satellite speakers too, just after the best type to use with a primary focus for movies.
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post #7 of 31 Old 09-06-2013, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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How would these satellites fair up with movies only in mind:
Monitor Audio Radius R180HD - Centre
Monitor Audio R90HD - Main

I have seen they have a rrp of about £100 more than I have found them for on offer (end of line I presume) as they are normally £325 a pair, but I have a chance to get them £100 less smile.gif

cheers

Thought's and suggestions very welcome smile.gif
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post #8 of 31 Old 09-06-2013, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Any more advice on this please?

Also make sure you read post number 7 as it's a different approach with satellites smile.gif
(considering this set up is only for movies)

cheers
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post #9 of 31 Old 09-06-2013, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by nero041001 View Post

Ah, thank you. I was a little misunderstood.
There are a few more that sell them too, but I like my sub so I'm keeping hold of my that, it's just the front's, center and surrounds I'm looking into replacing smile.gif
(for the time being wink.gif)
Just added that to my first post to avoid confusion.

Just saying that for movies, you would notice a big difference, probably at least as big as your speaker upgrade. The MS309i is rated down to 35hz. The PB-1000 to 19hz. There is a ton of bass content in movies below 35hz for special effects and such. Plus, the PB-1000 is likely a better sounding sub as well.
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post #10 of 31 Old 09-06-2013, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Just saying that for movies, you would notice a big difference, probably at least as big as your speaker upgrade. The MS309i is rated down to 35hz. The PB-1000 to 19hz. There is a ton of bass content in movies below 35hz for special effects and such. Plus, the PB-1000 is likely a better sounding sub as well.

That is nice and low, definitely one I'd go for at a future date after replacing my others, which is my main focus at the moment.

How would these satellites fair up with movies only in mind?:
Monitor Audio Radius R180HD - Centre
Monitor Audio R90HD - Main

Or 3x Monitor Audio Radius R180HD for L/R and Center?

Cheers
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Monitor Audio would be an amazing upgrade for you.

I have the RS6's and RX1's in my living room and it would take a lot of money for me to make a change to something else. I absolutely love them, and they're the best fit/finish/sound quality for the money in my opinion.

Cel4145 always has great advice and getting an SVS sub would be the most significant improvement you could make in your system (when you're ready of course).
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post #12 of 31 Old 09-06-2013, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Monitor Audio would be an amazing upgrade for you.

I have the RS6's and RX1's in my living room and it would take a lot of money for me to make a change to something else. I absolutely love them, and they're the best fit/finish/sound quality for the money in my opinion.

Cel4145 always has great advice and getting an SVS sub would be the most significant improvement you could make in your system (when you're ready of course).

Would they be a good upgrade with the satellites I mentioned in the post above, keeping in mind I'm only after a good set for movies?:

Monitor Audio Radius R180HD - Centre
Monitor Audio R90HD - Main
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post #13 of 31 Old 09-06-2013, 12:22 PM
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There's an AVS MA owners thread where people that own them can probably help you decide on which MA speakers would be best. I usually find the owners threads on AVS a great source once you decide on the speaker make and just need help on the model and which ones to match smile.gif
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post #14 of 31 Old 09-06-2013, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

There's an AVS MA owners thread where people that own them can probably help you decide on which MA speakers would be best. I usually find the owners threads on AVS a great source once you decide on the speaker make and just need help on the model and which ones to match smile.gif

Cheers, I have posted there too, so might double the advice I get a bit smile.gif
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post #15 of 31 Old 09-06-2013, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Edit: My current sub:
http://avland.co.uk/ms/ms309i/ms309i.htm

Ok, so I have been having a think about what you said regarding the sub, and after watching U571 and The Dark Knight whilst playing about this evening, I really listened for the LFE, and simply thought I was missing something.

So, I have looked into a couple of subs:

You recommended the SVS PB1000 Subwoofer, which is at a price point I like at £425.
The only place I could find it was here (uk stockist):
http://www.hifix.co.uk/sub-woofers/svs/pb1000.html
I also noticed they had an SVS SB1000:
http://www.hifix.co.uk/sub-woofers/svs/sb1000.html
That is the only place online based in the uk that I can find that stocks SVS subs.

I have no idea what the difference is between them, but the SB1000 isn't ported, it's a sealed box, so I am presuming that the PB1000 that is ported would be better due to better airflow?
(or something along those lines)

As for BK, all I could find was their own website which has the one that everyone seems to like, the BK Monolith:
http://www.bkelec.com/hifi/sub_woofers/monolith.htm
No where else that I can find sells BK subs.

The BK states that it go's down to 15hz/20hz and the SVS down to 19hz.

They both appear to be the best on the market at the price range, and possibly evenly matched so I have two questions, for the time being:

I am going to presume both would be a big noticeable difference to the 309i

1. Would it be more beneficial to me to upgrade the sub as opposed to the rest of my speakers which I can tweak?

2. Which would you go for out of the SVS PB1000 and the BK Monolith and why?

Cheers

ps, I live in a downstairs flat in a block of 6 smile.gif
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The PB1000 will bring amazing sound into your life. I honestly think it is a much bigger upgrade than your speaker.

I have an SB1000 and it is amazing for the master bedroom but underpowered for the living room. I'd get the PB1000 if I could do it again. (I'll be getting some soon).

I've never heard of Monolith so I can't comment but I find it almost impossible to believe that at ~$600 sub could get to 15hz. I think it MAY get to 15hz but is tuned to get to 20hz in most real world applications. The PB goes to 19hz and to me is probably a bit better.

I would get a PB + MA speakers when you can afford them, but certainly hit the sub first.


To your other question, I don't know or have interest in surrounds, I'd just use bookshelf speakers instead of anything else.
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SVS is an Internet direct subwoofer vendor here in the US who has a few international resellers. So likely you might only find one place.

The SB-1000 is a very compact 12" sealed sub. The PB-1000 is a much larger ported sub. So the SB-1000 will be a little better for music. But it doesn't have the max output and would be challenged in larger rooms--best for a bedroom. I use it for a computer desktop setup. It also doesn't extend down quite as low, so the PB-1000 definitely has the edge for HT usage there as well. Jim talks about both of them in his hometheatershack review I linked to above. And he is an active participant in this thread about them in the AVS subwoofer forum: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1439755/new-svs-sb1000-pb1000-subwoofers

If the Monolith does what it says it does, it could be a very good sub. It's a pretty big sub. Here are some measurements for one of Monolith's subs by Ilkka who measured a lot of subs for a while. Looks pretty good: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/5750-bk-monolith-df-2-a.html

Would the PB-1000 be better or worse? Hard to know.

You might post to the AVS subwoofer forum and see if anyone has any first hand experience with that specific Monolith sub you are considering. I'd put something like UK Monolith 12" sub any good? in the subject line. Might also try doing the same at AVForums.

Update: Oopps. I walked away from the computer and then posted. I see that Valtyr already said some of this smile.gif
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post #18 of 31 Old 09-07-2013, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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SVS is an Internet direct subwoofer vendor here in the US who has a few international resellers. So likely you might only find one place.

The SB-1000 is a very compact 12" sealed sub. The PB-1000 is a much larger ported sub. So the SB-1000 will be a little better for music. But it doesn't have the max output and would be challenged in larger rooms--best for a bedroom. I use it for a computer desktop setup. It also doesn't extend down quite as low, so the PB-1000 definitely has the edge for HT usage there as well. Jim talks about both of them in his hometheatershack review I linked to above. And he is an active participant in this thread about them in the AVS subwoofer forum: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1439755/new-svs-sb1000-pb1000-subwoofers

If the Monolith does what it says it does, it could be a very good sub. It's a pretty big sub. Here are some measurements for one of Monolith's subs by Ilkka who measured a lot of subs for a while. Looks pretty good: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/5750-bk-monolith-df-2-a.html

Would the PB-1000 be better or worse? Hard to know.

You might post to the AVS subwoofer forum and see if anyone has any first hand experience with that specific Monolith sub you are considering. I'd put something like UK Monolith 12" sub any good? in the subject line. Might also try doing the same at AVForums.

Update: Oopps. I walked away from the computer and then posted. I see that Valtyr already said some of this smile.gif

I'm pretty much sold on the SVS range now, so I have it down to the two, either the SVS PB1000 or SVS SB1000.

Of course they have different cabinet designs, one ported and one not ported.

So it's a toss up between the two.
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The PB1000 will bring amazing sound into your life. I honestly think it is a much bigger upgrade than your speaker.

I have an SB1000 and it is amazing for the master bedroom but underpowered for the living room. I'd get the PB1000 if I could do it again. (I'll be getting some soon).

I've never heard of Monolith so I can't comment but I find it almost impossible to believe that at ~$600 sub could get to 15hz. I think it MAY get to 15hz but is tuned to get to 20hz in most real world applications. The PB goes to 19hz and to me is probably a bit better.

I would get a PB + MA speakers when you can afford them, but certainly hit the sub first.


To your other question, I don't know or have interest in surrounds, I'd just use bookshelf speakers instead of anything else.

I have re positioned my speakers today and they sound much better than they did, so I might as well head for a much better sub.

What size is your living room? as mine is 18ft x 13ft.
Would the PB ported model with a 10" woofer be better for movies than the sealed model?
(Movies would be the primary use and I have read that the sealed subs have a slight edge for music and ported a slight edge for movies.)

Over at AVF some think that the ported design would be too 'boomy', but I'm not so sure in my setup and once configured properly with my Radioshack analog spl meter.
(Went for the analog as I find it more accurate after using a digital)

Cheers
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A ported svs boomy?I don't think.
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post #20 of 31 Old 09-07-2013, 10:56 AM
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The SVS ported subs are not "boomy." Is your MS sub boomy? The PB-1000 is a better quality ported sub than your MS. That kind of comment is sealed sub fanboy rhetoric. I have dual 18" sealed subs in my HT setup in my living room, the SB-1000 in my home office, and a 10" sealed sub in my car. So, obviously, I'm not a ported sub fanboy. I go for the best sub for the room and use that fits the budget.

For you room size, I would go with the PB-1000. It has significantly more headroom (max output). The SB-1000 could be challenged if you ever decide to crank it up to watch an action movie. The PB-1000 will not. And if you read Jim's review at hometheatershack, you'll see the differences in SQ are not that big. Jim is an AVS member who has reviewed quite a few subs in the $600 and under range. I trust his opinions.

The main thing to make sure of is that you have room for the PB-1000. Check the measurements. It's bigger than people might think.
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post #21 of 31 Old 09-07-2013, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

sealed sub fanboy rhetoric

Haha biggrin.gif

Nah, I don't find it boomy, and the things sitting right next to me. I did find it a little too directional, as I heard where the lfe was coming from, though after adjusting the crossover and volume trim, that went away.

Just reading through the review now, think it's this one:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/speaker-subwoofer-reviews/66069-svs-pb1000-sb1000-subwoofer-review.html

Room for it is certainly not a problem.
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post #22 of 31 Old 09-07-2013, 12:05 PM
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Yep. Crossover makes a difference. That's why I think it's Dolby (or maybe THX?) who recommends 80hz. Above that, and the bass becomes more localizable. And sitting close to the sub with the speakers elsewhere can enhance that.

If you do go with the new sub, you'll have to try some of the 4 to 5 star movies in this list. They've actually measured to see which have the most awesome bass output and debate it in the thread. LOL

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post #23 of 31 Old 09-07-2013, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Yep. Crossover makes a difference. That's why I think it's Dolby (or maybe THX?) who recommends 80hz. Above that, and the bass becomes more localizable. And sitting close to the sub with the speakers elsewhere can enhance that.

If you do go with the new sub, you'll have to try some of the 4 to 5 star movies in this list. They've actually measured to see which have the most awesome bass output and debate it in the thread. LOL

Ahh, I had mine at 120hz, which used to be the norm.... I think.

Oh don't worry about that, I'm planning on getting it delivered by this time next week, already got a buyer for my old sub (he's upgrading from a petiful Gale Storm like I did and his room is tiny, so it'll be good for him at least.

AVF also have threads for that:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/subwoofers/1033175-avforums-favourite-films-subwoofers.html
Part three of this one:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/subwoofers/1668562-best-movies-subwoofer-moment-part-3-a.html

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post #24 of 31 Old 09-07-2013, 12:38 PM
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Ahh, I had mine at 120hz, which used to be the norm.... I think.

Oh don't worry about that, I'm planning on getting it delivered by this time next week, already got a buyer for my old sub (he's upgrading from a petiful Gale Storm like I did and his room is tiny, so it'll be good for him at least.

AVF also have threads for that:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/subwoofers/1033175-avforums-favourite-films-subwoofers.html
Part three of this one:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/subwoofers/1668562-best-movies-subwoofer-moment-part-3-a.html

smile.gif

Awesome! New sub day is always a good day! Come back and share your thoughts. smile.gif
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post #25 of 31 Old 09-07-2013, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Awesome! New sub day is always a good day! Come back and share your thoughts. smile.gif

Just found a pretty crap sub here:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=126707

wink.gif

But, yeah, Going to try and get it delivered Thursday if I can. I'll certainly keep you posted smile.gif
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post #26 of 31 Old 09-08-2013, 12:07 AM
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Awesome choice.

Sorry about a lack of a response, I've been playing with new toys all day.

My room is 16' x 27' and is too large for the SB, the bedroom is 13' x 14.5' and is perfect for SB1000.

I hope you got the PB1000, and I hope it blows your mind!

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post #27 of 31 Old 09-08-2013, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Awesome choice.

Sorry about a lack of a response, I've been playing with new toys all day.

My room is 16' x 27' and is too large for the SB, the bedroom is 13' x 14.5' and is perfect for SB1000.

I hope you got the PB1000, and I hope it blows your mind!

No problem mate.

I'm pulling some strings at the moment and checking stock tomorrow morning (monday), and if they have one in stock, which looks likely going by another site they have a store on, I could have it delivered as soon as Tuesday wink.gif

I'm presuming it come's as standard with floor spikes? as I'll be shoving it on carpet.
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post #28 of 31 Old 09-08-2013, 11:45 AM
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I'm presuming it come's as standard with floor spikes? as I'll be shoving it on carpet.

Probably not. Spikes aren't necessary. Many people find them more gimmick than useful. The only time I think they are really helpful is if you have a downfiring sub, because you have to get it up off the floor.

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post #29 of 31 Old 09-09-2013, 04:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Probably not. Spikes aren't necessary. Many people find them more gimmick than useful. The only time I think they are really helpful is if you have a downfiring sub, because you have to get it up off the floor.

Just notice my current sub (which is now sold smile.gif) more or less just sat on the carpet and it looks like the PB1000 comes with rubber feet.

Had a slight hiccup with sage pay making payment with two cards (The first time either me or the site has ever had this issue), but it's been an interesting couple of hours.

Mat at Hifix (uk site) is a top bloke and we got it all sorted, ordered and being delivered tomorrow

I cannot recommend Hifix enough for their customer service and unhindered communication keeping me up to date through out through out he entire process. I'll definitely be using them again as and when needed

Can't wait till tomorrow now, sorting some films to test, and I might as well sort a couple of cds to listen to whilst I'm at it. Optimization mic at the ready along with my Analog Radio Shack SLP meter for some fine tuning, oh, and my ears too
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post #30 of 31 Old 09-10-2013, 05:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Got it through this morning and going to be setting it up this evening.

Given that my speakers can handle 80Hz, here are the specs for the main Mission 772's:
Max power :: 100w
Frequency Response :: 75-20,000HZ
Sensitivity :: 87dB/1w/1m
Crossover Frequency :: 3kHz

Do you think it'd still be 120Hz on the cross over or should I drop it to 80Hz?

I can't find the information on it now, but I'm sure someone mentioned somewhere to have the crossover set to 80Hz.

Cheers
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