Budget Home Theatre....critique setup options - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 09-09-2013, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I am in the process of doing a setup for my brother in law who is re finishing his basement. He is on a tight budget and has still not given me a dead set price. He is going to be using this for watching movies and TV. He is coming from an old Panasonic Home Theatre in a box and he thought that sounded good. I have been doing my research here to find what I feel is a good system for a budget. I have setup several systems for myself but I was much more picky and gave myself room on my budget. I will not get that with my brother in law. I don;t know the exact dimensions of his room but it is fairly open and has probably 7.5 foot ceilings. I have put together what I feel will be a pretty good system for him below and I think I will be within his budget. I would like to hear what others think and see if there is anything that I am missing. Thanks


Denon 2113 from A4L
Cambridge S30
Cambridge S50
Bic F12
Monoprice in ceiling Surounds

This comes in just under 1k from Amazon with free shipping on everything as I am a prime member and the Denon is from A4L
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post #2 of 33 Old 09-10-2013, 04:54 AM
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That would probably be a good upgrade for him, however I feel you are spending too much on the receiver. Do you need 7.1? If so, the 1913 would be a better option, if 5.1 is what you need, go for the 1713. With the savings, see if you can find a Klipsch RW-12D, it is a much better sub than the F-12.

Another option to consider is the Pioneer FS series, you could get the bookshelves and center for $230, and then with one of the cheaper receivers possibly squeeze in a SVS PB-1000 sub.
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post #3 of 33 Old 09-10-2013, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I have thought about lowering the level of the receiver. I am even looking at Onkyo as well. I have also looked at the Pioneer speakers and may en up going that route but I saw some pretty good reviews on the Cambridge audio speakers and the price difference seemed pretty small. I have also looked at the NXG subwoofer which I see is getting some good reviews.

I am still playing around with things and was looking for some suggestions from everyone. Thank you Transmaniacon
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post #4 of 33 Old 09-11-2013, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadcj7 View Post

I have thought about lowering the level of the receiver. I am even looking at Onkyo as well. I have also looked at the Pioneer speakers and may en up going that route but I saw some pretty good reviews on the Cambridge audio speakers and the price difference seemed pretty small. I have also looked at the NXG subwoofer which I see is getting some good reviews.

I am still playing around with things and was looking for some suggestions from everyone. Thank you Transmaniacon

Onkyo has been having some HDMI issues lately, I would probably hold off. Yamaha and Pioneer offer good value, but Denon comes with Audyssey which I think is a fantastic tool. You really can't go wrong with the Cambridge or Pioneer, you should enjoy both. The NXG sub was well liked by Jim Wilson, and I think is probably a better buy than the F-12.

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post #5 of 33 Old 09-11-2013, 04:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback. I am going to see if I can find some of these speakers locally and take a quick listen as I have polk speakers myself and as much as I enjoy them, they are towers and will be replaced in the future


Thanks again
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post #6 of 33 Old 09-11-2013, 08:06 AM
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NHT had a sale on the NHT SuperZero for $75 each shipped, normal is $99 shipped. Call NHT and see if they would extend you the sale price. I would get five NHT + a Rythmik LV12 sub for $589 shipped.
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post #7 of 33 Old 09-11-2013, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

NHT had a sale on the NHT SuperZero for $75 each shipped, normal is $99 shipped. Call NHT and see if they would extend you the sale price. I would get five NHT + a Rythmik LV12 sub for $589 shipped.

Actually they were $60 shipped, I know because I bought some biggrin.gif

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post #8 of 33 Old 09-11-2013, 08:12 AM
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Actually they were $60 shipped, I know because I bought some biggrin.gif

Even better. biggrin.gif

I must be losing my memory. eek.gif

They were my first audiophile speakers for 10 years. Awesome accurate speakers. All you need are some great subs. wink.gif

Really can't find many $5,000 towers that could outperform the little NHT sat + sub combo in most rooms & listening distance of < 13 ft.
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post #9 of 33 Old 09-11-2013, 08:42 AM
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Even better. biggrin.gif

I must be losing my memory. eek.gif

They were my first audiophile speakers for 10 years. Awesome accurate speakers. All you need are some great subs. wink.gif

Really can't find many $5,000 towers that could outperform the little NHT sat + sub combo in most rooms & listening distance of < 13 ft.

Yeah I have been thoroughly enjoying them. I am in the process of selling some active Mackie studio monitors and did some comparisons with the NHT SuperZero 2.0s, and the difference is considerable. The NHTs are much clearer and detailed, surprising considering they were up against something designed to be as accurate as possible.

OP if you can get that deal, it would offer a lot of value, and the money you save could go towards a better sub.

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post #10 of 33 Old 09-11-2013, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post


I am in the process of selling some active Mackie studio monitors and did some comparisons with the NHT SuperZero 2.0s, and the difference is considerable. The NHTs are much clearer and detailed, surprising considering they were up against something designed to be as accurate as possible.

"Designed to be" or "supposed to be" is one thing. biggrin.gif

How they actually measure and actually sound is another matter. smile.gif

Budget speakers from NHT, Infinity Primus, EMP, Pioneer, etc., actually measure accurately and they sound accurately as well. Just don't expect great bass for their prices. Better supply your own great bass. biggrin.gif
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post #11 of 33 Old 09-11-2013, 01:31 PM
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If you live near a Fry's Electronics the Infinity Primus P163s are on sale for $118/pair in-store price only.
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post #12 of 33 Old 09-11-2013, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

Yeah I have been thoroughly enjoying them. I am in the process of selling some active Mackie studio monitors and did some comparisons with the NHT SuperZero 2.0s, and the difference is considerable. The NHTs are much clearer and detailed, surprising considering they were up against something designed to be as accurate as possible.

OP if you can get that deal, it would offer a lot of value, and the money you save could go towards a better sub.

Which Mackies? I get tired of hearing the pro audio hype that pro audio is inherently better that passive speaker setups. Good to hear that some small passives (along with a t-amp) can offer that good a listening experience. Especially since I recommended that SuperZero 2.0 bargain to my brother who is a long time NHT fan; but he hasn't hooked his up yet. LOL

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post #13 of 33 Old 09-12-2013, 04:43 AM
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Which Mackies? I get tired of hearing the pro audio hype that pro audio is inherently better that passive speaker setups. Good to hear that some small passives (along with a t-amp) can offer that good a listening experience. Especially since I recommended that SuperZero 2.0 bargain to my brother who is a long time NHT fan; but he hasn't hooked his up yet. LOL

I had a pair of Mackie MR2 MK5 studio monitors hooked up to a USB mixer for volume control, and while they play loud, the clarity in the little NHTs is far superior. I found the Mackies to be muddy in comparison, and am very happy I jumped on the $60 NHT SuperZero 2.0s (it was an impulse buy rolleyes.gif). Now these are definitely on the low end of the pro-audio spectrum, but I was a litte surprised at the difference to be honest.

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post #14 of 33 Old 09-12-2013, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

I had a pair of Mackie MR2 MK5 studio monitors hooked up to a USB mixer for volume control, and while they play loud, the clarity in the little NHTs is far superior. I found the Mackies to be muddy in comparison, and am very happy I jumped on the $60 NHT SuperZero 2.0s (it was an impulse buy rolleyes.gif). Now these are definitely on the low end of the pro-audio spectrum, but I was a litte surprised at the difference to be honest.

Yeah, but the pro audio is best crowd will swear that Mackies are good, and your Mackies are the same price range as MSRP SuperZeros and a t-amp. smile.gif

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post #15 of 33 Old 09-12-2013, 06:57 AM
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Which Mackies? I get tired of hearing the pro audio hype that pro audio is inherently better that passive speaker setups. Good to hear that some small passives (along with a t-amp) can offer that good a listening experience. Especially since I recommended that SuperZero 2.0 bargain to my brother who is a long time NHT fan; but he hasn't hooked his up yet. LOL

Well, everybody claims to have the best. biggrin.gif

They won't concede that other speakers are better. That's impossible.

Just like the high-efficiency & ID crowd claims their speakers are the best and the high-end B&M crowd claims their mighty speakers are the best. biggrin.gif
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post #16 of 33 Old 09-12-2013, 07:01 AM
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Yeah, but the pro audio is best crowd will swear that Mackies are good
Not real pros. The only swearing they do with respect to Mackies is at them. rolleyes.gif

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post #17 of 33 Old 09-12-2013, 08:46 AM
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OP: I like the setup you're considering. I love the S30's that are on your list.

I'd strongly recommend you consider a better sub and a lower cost receiver. HSU has some inexpensive subs that might meet your needs. The F12 is really bad. I have one hooked up with my S30's right now and every single time I listen to it, I want to put my SVS SB1000 back in my room. frown.gif
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post #18 of 33 Old 09-12-2013, 09:02 AM
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Not real pros. The only swearing they do with respect to Mackies is at them. rolleyes.gif

I don't doubt it. I've listened to Adam, KRK, Mackie and Yamaha powered studio monitors in that $300 to $500 price range. Not that impressed.
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OP: I like the setup you're considering. I love the S30's that are on your list.

I'd strongly recommend you consider a better sub and a lower cost receiver. HSU has some inexpensive subs that might meet your needs. The F12 is really bad. I have one hooked up with my S30's right now and every single time I listen to it, I want to put my SVS SB1000 back in my room. frown.gif

Notably, you are comparing what could likely be the best sub for SQ for under $500 (and from an ID sub vendor) against probably the best sub for HT at $200. While you are probably spoiled now (as one SB-1000 owner to another wink.gif ), it definitely shows how much spending more on a sub scales in providing improved performance.

Even stepping up to the NXG subwoofer would be a worthwhile improvement.

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post #19 of 33 Old 09-12-2013, 09:12 AM
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I agree NXG should be the only thing worth considering between the F12 and the NXG. I'm hoping that less money spent on the receiver equates to a higher budget for the sub.

Klipsch RW-12D (if you can find it)
NXG NXBAS (great sub for the money)
Here is a really awesome thread

I'd estimate that anything JimWilson has reviewed, (and liked) would be a better budget sub than the F12.
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I agree NXG should be the only thing worth considering between the F12 and the NXG. I'm hoping that less money spent on the receiver equates to a higher budget for the sub.

Klipsch RW-12D (if you can find it)
NXG NXBAS (great sub for the money)
Here is a really awesome thread

I'd estimate that anything JimWilson has reviewed, (and liked) would be a better budget sub than the F12.

+1

This Velodyne VDR-12 is probably a good bet for the price, too.
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post #21 of 33 Old 09-12-2013, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you everyone for the input. I am taking the F-12 off of the sub list. I am probably going to replace that with the NXG. I will also look at either a refurbished denon 1713 or a 1913 instead of the 2113. I still may look at an refurbished onkyo 616 but not sure yet.

I have also thought about replacing the S30 with the infinity Primus speaker but not sure what to do for a center channel
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post #22 of 33 Old 09-12-2013, 12:30 PM
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Why not stick to the Primus line and get the C351 center from Amazon or Crutchfield for $200 with free shipping?
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post #23 of 33 Old 09-12-2013, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree. I did not see the see that there was a Primus center. Thanks for pointing that out.
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post #24 of 33 Old 09-12-2013, 03:45 PM
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I own Primus and S30. S30 is the better sound quality undoubtedly. The Primus plays a little louder but is annoying and fatiguing to hear for extended times.

I would take S30's over P163's any day biggrin.gif
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post #25 of 33 Old 09-12-2013, 05:34 PM
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I currently own the F12 in a huge room with high ceilings. It puts out serious bass, hard to imagine anything better for less than $250. My previous sub was a velodyne ct-12, and the BIC is better. Not to mention the 5 year amp warranty

Think before you speak....
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:-/ it is not a good sub. It emphasizes mid bass so much that it misses the important lows that a subwoofer needs to handle. It is loud I'll give you that, but it is not a good sub at all. It is undefined and muddy in my experience. The NXG is a significant improvement over the F12 the SVS PB1000 is certainly a lot better than NXG. I have an SB1000 that uncovered so much depth that the F12 missed it was sad to hear. I didn't know it was bad until I heard what I was missing.
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:-/ it is not a good sub. It emphasizes mid bass so much that it misses the important lows that a subwoofer needs to handle. It is loud I'll give you that, but it is not a good sub at all. It is undefined and muddy in my experience. The NXG is a significant improvement over the F12 the SVS PB1000 is certainly a lot better than NXG. I have an SB1000 that uncovered so much depth that the F12 missed it was sad to hear. I didn't know it was bad until I heard what I was missing.

It's a great sub for its price , and I would admit its mostly for HT and as you probably know placement has a lot to do with bass performance. The Bic subs have tons of positive reviews, but as you know as well, speaker performance is a personal preference. But I definitely would not mention SVS in the same category as a BIC, we're talking about a sub that's down to $185 on Amazon now. Anyone purchasing any type of speaker should listen on their own. (There's been plenty of people who have been less than impressed with there $1k SVS sub, becuase they've been expecting a little too much from them).

Think before you speak....
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post #28 of 33 Old 09-13-2013, 04:09 AM
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It really all depends on what your budget is. Unlike speakers, subs scale pretty well with price, and so the more you spend the more you get (for the most part). At $200, it's hard to find anything better than an F-12, but sure if you can stretch to $260 for the NXG, it's a good upgrade. You need to jump up to a SVS PB-1000 or Rythmik LV12R to get a meaningful performance increase though.

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post #29 of 33 Old 09-13-2013, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

It really all depends on what your budget is. Unlike speakers, subs scale pretty well with price, and so the more you spend the more you get (for the most part). At $200, it's hard to find anything better than an F-12, but sure if you can stretch to $260 for the NXG, it's a good upgrade. You need to jump up to a SVS PB-1000 or Rythmik LV12R to get a meaningful performance increase though.

I agree 100%

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post #30 of 33 Old 09-13-2013, 07:14 AM
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Sorry to be so aggressive earlier. I don't mean to be an F12 hater. It is a good sub for the money without a doubt. I forget that it served me well for years and is still part of my bedroom setup.

Although I agree NXG is a worthwhile upgrade, for the money BIC made a winner.
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