Is there any benefit in using banana speaker plugs? - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 132 Old 09-27-2013, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

Thank you for your explanation, James.

No problem. smile.gif It's unfortunate that it was an issue in the first place. I will attempt to be more plain about things. Threads can be long ongoing little monsters with people coming and going and responses not being clearly linked to past posts so one can never be too careful.

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post #122 of 132 Old 09-27-2013, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I and others listed the reasoning behind the assertion. It is unfortunate that you disregard it and instead present a completely false strawman argument that I'm asserting that I'm some kind of wiring God who just says "it is so".

It is another potential point of failure. This an extremely rudimentary premise or engineering/fabrication. Google it. I did not make it up. Further I would also assure you that connection of the wire to the banana plug, THEN to the post does not x-fer the current as efficiently as the bare wire. Again, simply another point for current loss from some wire not touching the "new' connector...and I can guarantee you that not every strand does.

As to bare wiring coming loose in binding posts when properly terminated, I'm sorry, my 25 years of experience simply does not agree with you. My amps have been connected for 3 years with via bare wire and I can lift them into the air if I wanted.

But, go ahead and terminate bare wire in AVR "A", then the identical wire in the identical AVR, "B". Lift by the wire...I GUARANTEE you that the banana plug will release first.

Repeat in 6 months.

Repeat in 12 months.

Repeat in 3 years.

The outcome will be identical.

I don't know how to be more clear so you can see my "beef". The thread asks the question and it's being addressed yet you seem confused or annoyed by the fact that is precisely what is occurring...perhaps because you simply do not agree??? What dialog do YOU think should be contained within a thread entitled: "Is there any benefit in using banana speaker plugs?"

I mean really- are you serious or just arguing for the sake of arguing?

James
if it is such a standard accepted engineering principle that it is another potential point of failure then why do auto and aircraft manufacturers still terminate their wires with spades and other plug in type devices? I'll give you a hint, it doesn't make a difference. There is zero loss of current(at least not enough to matter) and the connection works fine through thousands of miles and flight hours. It seems you're the one making stuff up that it makes a difference and is more prone to failure. Who the hell is going to pick their speaker up by the wires? Banana plugs don't come out under normal conditions. If I tripped over the wire, I'd rather the wire disconnect than the speaker come crashing down on top of me or fall over and get broken.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #123 of 132 Old 09-27-2013, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Absolutely. We are here to exchange information. It is only reasonable that something gets misconstrued or misinterpreted. Please forgive me for my outburst as well. It really got away from me!
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post #124 of 132 Old 09-27-2013, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

if it is such a standard accepted engineering principle that it is another potential point of failure then why do auto and aircraft manufacturers still terminate their wires with spades and other plug in type devices? I'll give you a hint, it doesn't make a difference. There is zero loss of current(at least not enough to matter) and the connection works fine through thousands of miles and flight hours. It seems you're the one making stuff up that it makes a difference and is more prone to failure. Who the hell is going to pick their speaker up by the wires? Banana plugs don't come out under normal conditions. If I tripped over the wire, I'd rather the wire disconnect than the speaker come crashing down on top of me or fall over and get broken.

You are making an apple to orange comparison. Airplanes and AVRs are fantastically dissimilar in an endless number of regards. If it helps you, many times spades and other connections are used for ease of fabrication, design, compatibility, installation, and in areas where it's simply not feasible to use tooling or a moving hand...ever been in an engine compartment or under a dashboard? Yes, there IS indeed a good reason why many of those connections are not of the screw-down variety. wink.gif

Onward, I never said there was an "audible" or marked difference...because that would be absurd. What I DID say, as a matter of FACT, was the difference was audibly NEGLIGIBLE (but measurable, to be sure in some cases). READ THE POST.

I am making nothing up. Zero. I stand by my noting of the basic premise of avoiding the increase of potential points of failure if possible. Do you know any engineers? Ask them how fictional it is...begin perhaps by bringing up the principles of "reliability engineering" and see what they think.

But hey, don't take my word for it: a few heavy hitters on this very thread have said the same...so much for your continued, false, accusation that this is all "my" information. rolleyes.gif

And not that I should even address it, but the allusion to picking up a speaker was of course an extreme, ridiculous, example that speaks to the solidity of a properly terminated bare wire. Your aspersion to anything else is meaningless.

have a good one.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #125 of 132 Old 09-27-2013, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

Absolutely. We are here to exchange information. It is only reasonable that something gets misconstrued or misinterpreted. Please forgive me for my outburst as well. It really got away from me!

Ditto. biggrin.gif

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #126 of 132 Old 09-27-2013, 12:37 PM
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You were the one that said he could pick up his amp by the wire. And it's not apples and oranges. An electrical connection is an electrical connection. There are many accepted different ways of making them and your bare wire has zero sonic difference with a banana plug. Sorry if you seem unable to grasp the patently obvious.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #127 of 132 Old 09-27-2013, 03:15 PM
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This thread is causing me to look at powered speakers in a whole new light. Anyone for a set of Mackie's?

Or just solder the speaker wire straight to the crossover and forget the whole banana plug / no banana plug thing.

smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif
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post #128 of 132 Old 09-27-2013, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gene c353 View Post

This thread is causing me to look at powered speakers in a whole new light. Anyone for a set of Mackie's?

You would need one line level output for each powered speaker. Do you have them?

FWIW I visited a friend who had a large HT system (about a dozen theatre seats) that was based on a bunch of Mackie HR 824 and a 24" subwoofer. Worked!
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Or just solder the speaker wire straight to the crossover and forget the whole banana plug / no banana plug thing.

Permanently soldering the speaker wires to the speaker seems a bit inflexible. No screw terminals on the speakers?
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post #129 of 132 Old 09-27-2013, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

I have never had a banana plug pull out without my assistance. On numerous occasions I have found binding posts that were loose when using bare wire. How do they loosen themselves?

Can't see my plugs so they are not for looks.

What is your problem with someone using them?

so you have screwed down binging posts onto bare wire and have had them come free or had the post loosen? Wow, I have to say that in my 25+ years of connecting THOUSANDS (yes, thousands) of amplifier and loudspeakers that has never occurred. I'll just consider myself lucky...or perhaps I have vice-like fingers. Banana plugs on the other hand? Yep, they ALWAYS stay in when you move a speaker or amplifier while they're still connected. rolleyes.gif

I've probably bought about 100 dual banana plugs in my life, and I've been frustrated by how easily they fall out. Many have been top-of-the-line stuff. I've used bananas so hard that some of the contact leaves wore down to the base metal (leading to corrosion and bad connections) and others simply wore some of the contact leaves through and then they really fell out easily.

Wherever possible I'm converting over to Speakons for speakers that are connected and disconnected frequently. Among other things Speakons won't auto-disconnect. In fact it probably takes 100's of pounds to pull them apart. Instead they have a bayonet sleeve that twists easily enough.

Interesting that Neutrik has made an exceptionally good business out of producing a connector that obsoletes dual bananas
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post #130 of 132 Old 09-27-2013, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I've probably bought about 100 dual banana plugs in my life, and I've been frustrated by how easily they fall out. Many have been top-of-the-line stuff. I've used bananas so hard that some of the contact leaves wore down to the base metal (leading to corrosion and bad connections) and others simply wore some of the contact leaves through and then they really fell out easily.

Wherever possible I'm converting over to Speakons for speakers that are connected and disconnected frequently. Among other things Speakons won't auto-disconnect. In fact it probably takes 100's of pounds to pull them apart. Instead they have a bayonet sleeve that twists easily enough.

Interesting that Neutrik has made an exceptionally good business out of producing a connector that obsoletes dual bananas

Thanks Arny. As I approach 1000 or so switches with my bananas I will watch for wear.

How many cocktails did it take you to write your informative post?
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post #131 of 132 Old 09-27-2013, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Wherever possible I'm converting over to Speakons for speakers that are connected and disconnected frequently. Among other things Speakons won't auto-disconnect. In fact it probably takes 100's of pounds to pull them apart. Instead they have a bayonet sleeve that twists easily enough.
Interesting that Neutrik has made an exceptionally good business out of producing a connector that obsoletes dual bananas
+1. Speakon owns the pro sound market, where cables are swapped out daily, and failure is not an option.

Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design

The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
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post #132 of 132 Old 09-27-2013, 11:07 PM
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While I've never had problems with any of the banana connectors I've bought, I must admit that speakons are definitely the best connection out there. I have it on my sub and it is rock solid.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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