Balancing compromises on speakers and their placement - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 8 Old 09-22-2013, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Flatland2D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I first posted some of this in my build thread but didn't get many responses so I'm hoping this will get better exposure. I'll keep my build thread for construction updates.

I've pretty much settled on the Hsu line of speakers, but I don't want to close the door just yet on other brands. I like that I can get all my speaker needs covered from the same manufacturer and have some comfort in that they will all play well together. Planning on a 7.1 system with the money seat front and center.

I'm currently looking at HB-1 for the front left and right, HC-1 for the center, HIW-1 (in-walls) for the surrounds and rears, and dual VTF-15H for the subwoofers. It's starting to feel like this will end up being very bass-heavy, which I don't know if that will be a bad thing, but just wanted some opinions on it. Planning on powering the system with a Denon 2113 AVR. Any weak points? In-walls for the surrounds and rears are being demanded by my wife, but I have to agree. I know acoustically they are not as good, but I can't afford the space with speakers mounted on the wall, as that is where the walkway is (see pictures below). I guess I can live with this compromise because not as much sound comes out of the surrounds and rear speakers.

Here's a picture of the room I'm converting.

room-before_zpsc21b7e69.jpg

I have a couple of options for speaker placement. This looks like it might be the most ideal, but comes with some practical compromises. Particularly trying to toe-in the surround speakers, just feels like it would look too weird in real life. The speaker wedges are drawn in according to the Dolby recommended placement. Part of the compromise is trying to get the surround speakers far enough back that they are not too far ahead of the first row. Green are speakers, red are absorbing panels.

Speakers-toe-in_zps5a7c7f37.jpg

The other option I'm looking at is not worrying about toe-in and moving the rear surround speakers to the back wall. This aims them more at the listeners (no toe-in and mounted as in the first picture wouldn't point them anywhere near the listeners). The compromise here is that the rear surrounds are well outside of the wedges for the front row listeners, but might be close for the second row. But the wedges are just a recommendation and not set in stone, right?

Speakers-compromise_zpsd03fa582.jpg

At this point, I'm pretty heavily leaning towards the second option, but just wanted to get opinions on this before proceeding. Maybe there is a better option out there?

My last question is about mounting the front left and right speakers. I build cardboard mock-ups of an HB-1 and VTF-15H to get a feel for how they fit in the room. I was showing my wife different placement options for the subwoofer, and after I placed it in one of the front corners, she said, "Why don't we just get two and put one on each side?" I can't say how happy that made me! I was afraid of suggesting two because the speaker budget has been steadily increasing since the project started, but this is fine with me! So my question is, is there a good way to mount the front left/right speakers above a subwoofer? A picture will explain this best.

Hsu-HB-1-and-VTF-15H_zps83af547f.jpg

Ignore the open wall to the right. I'm in the process of framing and drywalling it closed. I wasn't really thinking of mounting the speaker on the subwoofer because I didn't know how that would sound. Would the speakers rattle each other? Could this be an option? I was thinking of building an arm off the side wall to basically act as a shelf to hold the speaker at the right height and distance from the walls. Any input on this would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks for any advice you can offer!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Flatland2D is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 8 Old 09-23-2013, 04:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Transmaniacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 3,396
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 386 Post(s)
Liked: 404
First off, if you are going with an accoustically transparent screen then you should get three HC-1 speakers for the front. This will create a better sound stage and is more ideal than the HB-1 and HC-1 combination. As for placement, THX recommends placing the rear surrounds together on the back wall, while Dolby MA recommends separating the rear surrounds on the back wall. In your case, I would probably go with the second layout as this seems more ideal given the restrictions on your back wall. Putting the speakers on the subs would be fine, but you may needs them a little higher with the two rows of seating.

Living Room
Samsung PN60F5300 | Denon DBP-1611 | Roku 3
Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | BIC F-12

Computer
Topping TP23 | NHT SuperZero 2.0 | Velodyne DEQ-8R
Transmaniacon is online now  
post #3 of 8 Old 09-23-2013, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Flatland2D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I forgot to mention this, but I'm not planning on using an AT screen. The speakers and subs will be visible, so I'm trying to find a way to mount the bookshelfs in a way that looks good (either with an arm attached to the wall or a small pedestal sitting on top of the sub).

Do you think the side surround speakers are in a good spot? They are still forward of the second row, but at the back of the speaker wedge for the front and center listener. I'd like some more input on where to place this speaker, whether that be splitting the difference between the two listeners and compromising for both or setting up for the front row only. On the drawing, I'm talking about moving the side surrounds forwards to 90 degrees from the front listener, or moving it further back, outside of the wedge, past 135 degrees. Can someone elaborate on the trade offs here? Is one option better than the other? I realize anything with two rows is going to be somewhat of a compromise for speaker placement.

Thanks!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Flatland2D is offline  
post #4 of 8 Old 09-23-2013, 06:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Transmaniacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 3,396
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 386 Post(s)
Liked: 404
You might have better luck with bipole speakers for side surrounds. It will be tough to get the center placed adequately because it will have to be below the screen and angled up. What are your reasons for not using an AT screen?

Living Room
Samsung PN60F5300 | Denon DBP-1611 | Roku 3
Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | BIC F-12

Computer
Topping TP23 | NHT SuperZero 2.0 | Velodyne DEQ-8R
Transmaniacon is online now  
post #5 of 8 Old 09-23-2013, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Flatland2D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

You might have better luck with bipole speakers for side surrounds. It will be tough to get the center placed adequately because it will have to be below the screen and angled up. What are your reasons for not using an AT screen?

I've considered dipoles but liked the idea of using similar speakers from the same manufacturer for similar voicing. Can you suggest some that would work well with Hsu LCR?

The center channel will be below the screen and angled up. I know this isn't ideal but it won't be too far off vertically from the left and right channels. It's a better compromise than placing it above the screen.

The AT screen/false wall was shot down by the WAF. Room is 23.5 feet long and we are wanting to place a bar behind the second row. As shown on the drawings, it's already somewhat tight but 24 to 30" of false wall would eliminate that idea.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Flatland2D is offline  
post #6 of 8 Old 09-24-2013, 04:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Transmaniacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 3,396
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 386 Post(s)
Liked: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatland2D View Post

I've considered dipoles but liked the idea of using similar speakers from the same manufacturer for similar voicing. Can you suggest some that would work well with Hsu LCR?

The center channel will be below the screen and angled up. I know this isn't ideal but it won't be too far off vertically from the left and right channels. It's a better compromise than placing it above the screen.

The AT screen/false wall was shot down by the WAF. Room is 23.5 feet long and we are wanting to place a bar behind the second row. As shown on the drawings, it's already somewhat tight but 24 to 30" of false wall would eliminate that idea.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

Surrounds don't necessarily have to match the front speakers, one example that comes to mind is the Klipsch RS speakers. Bipoles are however more expensive, and it might just be easier to stick with more of the HSU speakers.

Living Room
Samsung PN60F5300 | Denon DBP-1611 | Roku 3
Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | BIC F-12

Computer
Topping TP23 | NHT SuperZero 2.0 | Velodyne DEQ-8R
Transmaniacon is online now  
post #7 of 8 Old 09-24-2013, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Flatland2D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Klipsch dipoles could be a possibility. How would that look in a 7.1 setup, since they are already so non-directional? Would the side and rear surrounds both be dipoles?

When you say more of the Hsu speakers, do you mean having extra side and surround speakers, or more as in after the LCR channels, having more Hsus? The multiple surrounds has been suggested before to help rear effects in the second row seating.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Flatland2D is offline  
post #8 of 8 Old 09-29-2013, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Flatland2D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I'm still considering my options on the speaker placement. I've had time to do some more reading about it lately.

I saw on the Hsu forum that another person was planning on sitting his HB-1s on his subwoofer (VTF-3 I think it was) and the Doctor said it shouldn't be a problem at all.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Flatland2D is offline  
Reply Speakers

Tags
Hsu Research Hc 1 Mk2 , Hsu Vtf 15h Subwoofer , Denon Avr 2113ci Receiver
Gear in this thread

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off