What speakers and subs should I choose for Denon X4000? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 09-27-2013, 08:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi, I am building a home theater out of a 16'x18' basement room. The contractor recommended Denon X3000 or X4000. I'll probably go for the 4000 after reading comments about the Audyssey XT32. For the speakers and subs, my contractor recommended Boston Acoustics HSi485 in wall speaker and ASW650 sub. Does anyone on this board have experience with these models? Or any experience with in-wall speakers in HT at all?

The prices of speaker, sub, and receiver seems to be in reasonable proportion (2:1:1). In this price range, what is the best alternative for a 7.2 system? (assuming I fight for "real" home theater speakers and using the X4000). Any information is appreciated! Thank you!
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post #2 of 18 Old 09-27-2013, 09:03 PM
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If u can avoid in wall speakers you'll get a lot more for your money.

Plus get your sub or subs from an internet direct manufacturer like SVS, HSU, PSA, or Rythmik.

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post #3 of 18 Old 09-27-2013, 11:26 PM
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The only good inwalls are very expensive. You get a lot more bang for your buck with conventional type speakers. Plus, if your trying to contain the sound, cutting a hole in the wall and putting in a speaker without a speaker back defeats the purpose. What is your budget? Do you have any aversion to building a kit? The SEOS are excellent home theater speakers. They can be purchased with the crossover already built so all you have to do is assemble the box, finish it the way you like, install the drivers and crossover and wire it up. It's easy enough for anyone to do that has the ability to construct a Lego set.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits.html

You won't find anything near that price that will perform anywhere close to the SEOS.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #4 of 18 Old 09-27-2013, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camus2010 View Post

Hi, I am building a home theater out of a 16'x18' basement room. The contractor recommended Denon X3000 or X4000. I'll probably go for the 4000 after reading comments about the Audyssey XT32. For the speakers and subs, my contractor recommended Boston Acoustics HSi485 in wall speaker and ASW650 sub. Does anyone on this board have experience with these models? Or any experience with in-wall speakers in HT at all?

The prices of speaker, sub, and receiver seems to be in reasonable proportion (2:1:1). In this price range, what is the best alternative for a 7.2 system? (assuming I fight for "real" home theater speakers and using the X4000). Any information is appreciated! Thank you!


I am assuming you only hired your contractor because you wanted in-walls correct? If not, forget the contracter and spend that money towards your system.

5.1 set-up with conventionl speakers is like hooking up your monitor to your computer. No need for a contractor.
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post #5 of 18 Old 09-28-2013, 01:18 AM
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Your room is right on the borderline of the size for needing 7 speakers. If I were you, I might think about going with a higher quality 5.2 system, or install front heights in place of the extra surrounds. Quite a few of the guys here really like the effect of the heights more than they do the extra surround speakers. YMMV. Also, with conventional type speakers, that will allow you the ability to experiment to see which configuration you like best. It will cost next nothing to have it wired up to be able to hook it up either way.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #6 of 18 Old 09-28-2013, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

If u can avoid in wall speakers you'll get a lot more for your money.

Plus get your sub or subs from an internet direct manufacturer like SVS, HSU, PSA, or Rythmik.

Thanks! Any particular recommendation? I've never heard about these brands before. The budget is $400 - $500 a piece.
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post #7 of 18 Old 09-28-2013, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAIM101 View Post

I am assuming you only hired your contractor because you wanted in-walls correct? If not, forget the contracter and spend that money towards your system.

5.1 set-up with conventionl speakers is like hooking up your monitor to your computer. No need for a contractor.

The contractor is finishing the whole basement, and he has done dozens of "high-end" HT's in my area. ALL of them use in-walls. Even although I am new to HT scene, the prevalence of in-walls sounds outlandish to me.

Say, if I ditch the in-walls and have about $3000 to spend on speakers and subs, shall I consider buying packages or shall I buy individual speakers?
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post #8 of 18 Old 09-28-2013, 10:25 AM
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Purchase individual speakers. Good subs go a long way in the enjoyment of HT. When it comes to subwoofers you want to purchase from a company that specializes in them. Another important considerayion is the number of subs you are willing to purchase. Multiple subs offer better sound quality because it can smooth out the room response. A single sub may give you the output you are looking for however it doesnt offer the best frequency response.

If you are willing to purchase your ht in steps you will get the most out of your system.

If you wanted to purchase dual subs right away i would look at the rythmik lv12r. http://www.rythmikaudio.com/LV12R.html If you dont mid purchasing one sub at a time the PSA XV15 and XS15 are great. Another really good sub is the svs pb12.

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/xv15
http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/xs15
http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb12-nsd#.UkcUUaNZ6hs
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post #9 of 18 Old 09-28-2013, 10:33 AM
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Posted this in a similar budget thread.

One of the countless options would be Ascend and dual subs.

2 - CMT-340 SE
1 - CMT-340 C
4 - CBM-170 SE
Comes to $1,398 Shipped
The matching stands for the front 340's are $140 a pair
Omni wall mounts for the 170's are about $90 a pair
Could always do 340's for the surrounds and rears too if you want a larger floor standing speaker all around

Then you can do:
Dual SVS PB-1000 for $1,000
Dual PSA XS15 for $1423
and many other great subs in that similar price range

Denon 2113, Klipsch RF-52, RC-35, RB-61, SVS PB-1000
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post #10 of 18 Old 09-28-2013, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petden View Post

Purchase individual speakers. Good subs go a long way in the enjoyment of HT. When it comes to subwoofers you want to purchase from a company that specializes in them. Another important considerayion is the number of subs you are willing to purchase. Multiple subs offer better sound quality because it can smooth out the room response. A single sub may give you the output you are looking for however it doesnt offer the best frequency response.

If you are willing to purchase your ht in steps you will get the most out of your system.

If you wanted to purchase dual subs right away i would look at the rythmik lv12r. http://www.rythmikaudio.com/LV12R.html If you dont mid purchasing one sub at a time the PSA XV15 and XS15 are great. Another really good sub is the svs pb12.

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/xv15
http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/xs15
http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb12-nsd#.UkcUUaNZ6hs

+1

Consult the AVS subwoofer forum and you'll find people that will repeatedly tell you that the major Internet direct subwoofer vendors--SVS Audio, Rythmik Audio, Power Sound Audio, HSU Research, and Outlaw Audio--offer far better values than traditional speaker company subs, often even better values than subs from those speaker companies costing twice the price MSRP.

If well placed, dual subs offer the benefit of providing a more even frequency response through a wider seating area. Might want to research dual (and single) subwoofer placement as your contractor may not be wiring well for that. Just because your contractor has been involved with expensive HT setups does not mean he's knowledgeable about sub placement (although he might tell you he is--LOL).
http://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-connection/subwoofer-placement-guidelines
http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-setup/subwoofer-placement-the-place-for-bass-part-1

As for in walls vs. conventional speakers, I agree with everyone else. You'll do better with regular speakers. Plus, if you get the upgrade bug later, you'll have more options to choose from smile.gif

If you have more questions about subwoofers, best strategy would be to start a thread just for your sub purchase in the AVS subwoofer forum.

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post #11 of 18 Old 09-28-2013, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camus2010 View Post

The contractor is finishing the whole basement, and he has done dozens of "high-end" HT's in my area. ALL of them use in-walls. Even although I am new to HT scene, the prevalence of in-walls sounds outlandish to me.

Say, if I ditch the in-walls and have about $3000 to spend on speakers and subs, shall I consider buying packages or shall I buy individual speakers?

Pair of SVS PB1000s for $949 http://www.svsound.com/dual-subwoofers/dual-pb-1000#.UkdIHyi4K5M

As for speakers there's just so much to chose from for $2000 that it is hard to make specific recommendations. Is your setup going to be for movies, games, tv only? If so it's hard to beat Klipsch Reference series for that purpose. If music is going to be much of a factor Klipsch might not be the right choice as some find them a little harsh for extended music sessions.

Maybe look at NHT, Kef, HSU for a package deal with subs, HTD, JBL Studio 500 series, Aperion, RSL......

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post #12 of 18 Old 09-28-2013, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camus2010 View Post

The contractor is finishing the whole basement, and he has done dozens of "high-end" HT's in my area. ALL of them use in-walls. Even although I am new to HT scene, the prevalence of in-walls sounds outlandish to me.

Say, if I ditch the in-walls and have about $3000 to spend on speakers and subs, shall I consider buying packages or shall I buy individual speakers?

How has he done these "high end" HT's? Are the walls double sheet rocked with Green Glue in-between? Are the walls suspended on hat tracks with whisperclips? There are a whole lot of guys out there installing HT's, it doesn't necessarily mean they know a whole lot about it.

I'm not trying to disparage your installer or his honesty. I'm just trying to tell you that you have to be careful of many out there that claim they are experts but really aren't.

Like me, I know just enough to be dangerous but I'm far from an expert.biggrin.gif

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #13 of 18 Old 09-29-2013, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by auceny View Post

Posted this in a similar budget thread.

One of the countless options would be Ascend and dual subs.

2 - CMT-340 SE
1 - CMT-340 C
4 - CBM-170 SE
Comes to $1,398 Shipped
The matching stands for the front 340's are $140 a pair
Omni wall mounts for the 170's are about $90 a pair
Could always do 340's for the surrounds and rears too if you want a larger floor standing speaker all around

Then you can do:
Dual SVS PB-1000 for $1,000
Dual PSA XS15 for $1423
and many other great subs in that similar price range

That sounds pretty interesting. Just wondering what's the general rule for the speaker sizes? Say, if I start with an 10" sub, (that can be determined first due to my room size), what are the "ideal" size of the drivers for the satellites? Also, is it ok to I use larger front combined with smaller rear and sides? Thanks!
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post #14 of 18 Old 09-29-2013, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

How has he done these "high end" HT's? Are the walls double sheet rocked with Green Glue in-between? Are the walls suspended on hat tracks with whisperclips? There are a whole lot of guys out there installing HT's, it doesn't necessarily mean they know a whole lot about it.

I'm not trying to disparage your installer or his honesty. I'm just trying to tell you that you have to be careful of many out there that claim they are experts but really aren't.

Like me, I know just enough to be dangerous but I'm far from an expert.biggrin.gif

Yeah, I guess the contractor was simply spoiled by clients that have too much money to care biggrin.gif He did mention some special sound-dampening drywall stuffs though. Anyway, they are going to lay the wires next week. Maybe I will just lay extra wire for front height and play with it later. Thanks!
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post #15 of 18 Old 09-29-2013, 09:15 AM
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My neighbor just had the Denon X series installed with Paradigm inwalls and it sounds great.

VSX-53, VSX-51,VSX-81 Pioneer Elites and Denon 1611
James loudspeaker inwalls main and future theater
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post #16 of 18 Old 09-29-2013, 09:31 AM
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I'm in a similar boat here, and was also the OP from the 'other thread' mentioned above. I have an X4000 and I'm looking for a 7.1/2 set. Someone else recommended one of the packages from HSU research, the hybrid 15, which seemed pretty appealing.

The idea of building my own speakers with kits is pretty tempting actually. Is there a pretty good ratio of quality to cost?
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post #17 of 18 Old 09-29-2013, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWhoRoams View Post

I'm in a similar boat here, and was also the OP from the 'other thread' mentioned above. I have an X4000 and I'm looking for a 7.1/2 set. Someone else recommended one of the packages from HSU research, the hybrid 15, which seemed pretty appealing.

The idea of building my own speakers with kits is pretty tempting actually. Is there a pretty good ratio of quality to cost?

While I don't have first hand experience, the DIY crowd on AVS often describes the speaker kits as the best value, and I believe them. Madisound is one of the more popular vendors. Research and talk to the people in the AVS DIY audio forum to learn more.

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post #18 of 18 Old 09-29-2013, 10:34 AM
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The SEOS series is the hottest thing in DIY HT speakers right now. If you look in the DIY section you'll see plenty of build threads on them.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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