Pioneer Andrews Jones vs BIC budget setup? - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Which speaker setup?
A 2 14.29%
B 5 35.71%
C 7 50.00%
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post #1 of 23 Old 10-09-2013, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking at speakers for my budget 7.1 home theater. Deciding on picking up a set of either the new pioneer Andrew Jones speakers or a set of BIC. Are the Pioneer really any better than the BIC?

Can't seem to really find any answers as to which BIC series to go with either.

Choices..

A
2 - BIC FT-6T Towers
1 - BIC FH6-LCR Center
4 - BIC FH-65B Side/Surrounds
1 - BIC F12 Sub

B
2 - BIC DV64 Towers
1 - BIC DV-62CLRS Center
4 - BIC DV62si Side/Surrounds
1 - BIC F12 Sub

C
2 - Pioneer SP-FS52 Towers
1 - Pioneer SP-C22 Center
4 - Pioneer SP-BS22 Side/Surrounds
1 - BIC F12 Sub



Place your votes, I'd like to hear all of your inputs! Will be powered by either a Denon AVR2113, Pioneer VSX-1023 or Yamaha RX-V673.

Thanks
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post #2 of 23 Old 10-10-2013, 12:46 AM
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I have your B setup exactly with an extra F12. Its fantastic for movies. I honestly don't think I could ask for anything more. They are powered by a pioneer 1221k. My only issue is that, without the sub, the bass frequencies on the dv64's drop off more than the specs would lead you to believe. I've always been a fan of 2 channel music without a sub, but the dv64's just can't go low enough by themselves. The F12's do a nice job of picking up the slack and the receiver crosses them nicely. I demoed some pioneer floor speakers before (blindly) buying my bics online. I wasn't very impressed with the pioneers. I'm not sure which models they were, but they were comparable in size and price to the bic's. I've never had a chance to listen to the bic f series speakers so I can't speak to those.
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post #3 of 23 Old 10-10-2013, 04:19 AM
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I would go with option A, but instead go with 3 FH6-LCR across the front. Having three matching front speakers is the most ideal setup and when you have a sub crossed over with the mains, you lose the benefits of having towers. With the difference I would add a second BIC F-12 for more even bass response and a little bump in output. I would go with the Denon receiver as it has Audyssey which will calibrate your speakers and subs the best (of the three).

I recommend the BICs because they are horn-loaded and are easier to drive than the Pioneers, giving you better dynamics for movies.

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post #4 of 23 Old 10-10-2013, 07:51 AM
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I would recommend going with 5.1 and getting a better sub. Would be worthwhile stepping up to the BIC PL-200 for extra/better bass output.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #5 of 23 Old 10-10-2013, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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So far BIC is beating out the pioneers! I'll check out the BIC PL-200 sub for comparison. Those with experience with the BIC products listed, is there really much difference between the DV and the FH lines other than the tweeter design?
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post #6 of 23 Old 10-10-2013, 11:36 AM
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The BIC PL-200 can generally be purchased for ~ $280 if you make Acoustic Sound Design an offer (they have a button for that).

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #7 of 23 Old 10-10-2013, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madspeed View Post

So far BIC is beating out the pioneers! I'll check out the BIC PL-200 sub for comparison. Those with experience with the BIC products listed, is there really much difference between the DV and the FH lines other than the tweeter design?

Thats a pretty substantial difference. One is a typical dome tweeter, while the other is horn-loaded. Horn speakers generally have more pronounced highs and higher sensitivities, meaning they can play louder and give you more dynamic sound. Go have a listen to Klipsch at Best Buy and see if this sound appeals to your, compared to the Pioneers.

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post #8 of 23 Old 10-10-2013, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Would I be better off with 2 of the F12 subs, or one of the PL-200 subs? Since the F12's are roughly $180 x 2 = $360 total, or one Pl-200 for $320??
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post #9 of 23 Old 10-10-2013, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madspeed View Post

Would I be better off with 2 of the F12 subs, or one of the PL-200 subs? Since the F12's are roughly $180 x 2 = $360 total, or one Pl-200 for $320??

PL-200 is less than $320 (see my previous post).
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

The BIC PL-200 can generally be purchased for ~ $280 if you make Acoustic Sound Design an offer (they have a button for that).

They are the vendor that most AVSrs by from.

I would get the PL-200 now. By all counts, it's the better sounding sub of the two and has more output. See a 2nd one as something to get down the road in a year or so.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #10 of 23 Old 10-10-2013, 11:48 AM
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I would probably go with the PL-200 for $280. It will dig deeper, and leaves you the option to add a second cool.gif

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post #11 of 23 Old 10-11-2013, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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thx guys, looks like the PL-200 it is!
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post #12 of 23 Old 10-11-2013, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Those with experience with the make offer dealio, does that include shipping??
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post #13 of 23 Old 10-12-2013, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madspeed View Post

Those with experience with the make offer dealio, does that include shipping??

Generally the price includes shipping.

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post #14 of 23 Old 10-13-2013, 03:39 AM
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Another happy PL200 owner here. After reading positive reviews on this forum I took the plunge and am very glad I did.
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post #15 of 23 Old 10-13-2013, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madspeed View Post

So far BIC is beating out the pioneers! I'll check out the BIC PL-200 sub for comparison. Those with experience with the BIC products listed, is there really much difference between the DV and the FH lines other than the tweeter design?


And yet in the poll - it's 1 vote for BIC and 3 for the Pioneer! eek.gifrolleyes.gif
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post #16 of 23 Old 12-19-2013, 07:03 AM
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I'd vote for the Pioneer system with a non-Pioneer sub. I've listened to the Andrew Jones BS22's (the bookshelves) quite a lot and A/B tested them against two other mid-fi, extremely nice bookshelves (the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 SE and the Axiom Audio m3v2). The Pioneers, while very (very) slightly lacking in bass compared to these two more expensive speakers (each about $300), are on the whole comparable. They have a sonic quality very much like the Ascends, which is one I really love for music. For $125 they are incredible speakers. The BIC DV62si has, like Jones' speaker, won a lot of praise over the years as a great bang-for-buck bookshelf. I have never heard them, so I won't weigh in - but I've read a lot about them over the years, and when the DV62si has been actually measured by third parties, as I recall, it does well for the money, but it does not measure up to the Jones' speaker for accuracy.

 

The Jones tower is almost a clone of the bookshelf, with more bass range and the height advantage of the tower construction. I have not heard the center, but I have to assume it has a strong sonic resemblance to the BS22's. In that case, it's got to be an excellenct little HT center. The frequency range of the human voice happens to be the sweet spot for Jones' gem of a speaker.

 

You can pick up a substitute sub without adding much or any cost to your system. I'd go with one of the Dayton subs at Parts Express, assuming you don't want to raise the total cost. Unsolicited advice: If you think you want a better sub ($400 or up) down the road, try to get it asap without spending $100 now on a second-rate sub. That will be $100 down the drain.

 

Final nods for the Pioneer system: looks, music, and flexibility. The Pioneer is no cherry wood beauty, but it's not bad looking at all, and better looking than the BICs, unless you go for the big box BICs (and have a fond nostalgia for 1970s big boxes). The Pioneers will likely give you better response on music, in stereo or 5.1 mode, and that's a huge plus. Finally, with the Pioneers, you're getting speakers you will likely always be able to find a place for in a secondary system (bedroom, study) should you catch upgraditis and end up wanting to drop $3K-plus on a new system some years down the road.

 

I've often been curious about the BICs. My family had BIC America 3-ways in the 1970s, and I kept them until they blew out in 1990. I always loved the warm sound, deep bass, and the little dial I could use to adjust the ferro-cooled tweeters. But I'm pretty sure that today you'll be getting a higher quality product with the Pioneers. They are not $800 speakers, but they're uniquely enjoyable for their price range, lacking the mistakes (extended highs, boomy bass, bad crossovers, lack of accuracy) of many comparably priced speakers.


"These go to eleven."
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post #17 of 23 Old 12-19-2013, 07:15 AM
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I vote for BIC all the way. I would go with 7 FH6-LCRs for all the way around the room and go with 2 PL-200 subs. If you can't do 2 PL-200s then at least do 2 F-12s. Go to acousticsounddesign.com then call them and tell them exactly what you want then tell them your a member of AVS then ask them for the absolute best price they can do shipped to your house. I think you will be surprised. I'm guessing for 7 FH6-LCRs and 2 F-12s you will be at about $1,000. And for the 7 FH6-LCRs and 2 PL-200 maybe $1,200 its just a guess. I bought a 7.0 set from them (2 PL-89s, 1 PL-28, and 4 PL-66s) for $980 shipped to my house.

Shawn
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post #18 of 23 Old 12-19-2013, 10:30 AM
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I have the Pioneer's and lots of other speakers. Depending on your time line I would consider the Dan Murphy upgraded Pioneers... I also have the PL-200. The Pioneer are a touch sibilant if you are going to listen to a lot of music hence the suggestion to get the Dan Murphy versions.. It will be mid January before he has more. My home theater stuff is PSB Image towers and they are more dynamic but they are much larger. I can't speak to the BIC speakers but I am not a fan of horns. I think the Dan Murphy Bookshelves are like$160 a pair and the center is very inexpensive. That is a lot of very high quality audio for the price. Although I have the PL-200 I am only moderately impressed by it. I am using it in my bedroom and if I watched a lot more movies I would by some HSUs or SVS subs for my living room where the PSBs are.

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post #19 of 23 Old 12-19-2013, 10:36 AM
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I would consider the Dan Murphy upgraded Pioneers...

That would be Dennis Murphy.smile.gif

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post #20 of 23 Old 12-19-2013, 11:50 AM
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That would be Dennis Murphy.smile.gif
Thanks, I needed that!

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post #21 of 23 Old 12-19-2013, 12:38 PM
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gtgray, are there some good posts here on the PSB Image speakers? They are on my radar for a look during my upcoming case of upgraditis.


"These go to eleven."
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post #22 of 23 Old 12-19-2013, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenMindAudio View Post

gtgray, are there some good posts here on the PSB Image speakers? They are on my radar for a look during my upcoming case of upgraditis.

The current product is better than mine. I have T65s. T45s and some B15s. I bought B-Stock stuff about 2006. I like them especially for home theater. I have never quite figured them out though. I think my living room is just not great acoustically. Fortunately I mostly listen to music in my bedroom not the living room. I have an elderly mother living with my wife and I.

Right now I am using the PSBs T45 as a benchmark while I choose something I like better for music. There was a set of demo Imagine Bookshelves on eBay that I missed and would have bought for sure but I missed them over a schedule conflict. Anyway I really want bookshelves in the bedroom. Though some would say the PSBs are somewhat recessed they don't come into their own until they get loud too loud for my bedroom.

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post #23 of 23 Old 12-19-2013, 02:45 PM
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did you consider Polk as another budget option? I got the Polk 45b bookshelves and I'm quite satisfied!

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