Advantages of 7 speakers over 5? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm running a 4 subwoofer setup in my HT, which is only for movies. I have a 18in custom built sub up front and 3 12in subs behind my seating. I had a mini earthquake yesterday watching After Earth on my 130in screen. I only thing I haven't upgraded yet is my AVR and speakers. I'm using my old Onyko speakers that I had for 5 years, which I got for free and 2 Insignia bookshelf speakers. I know these speakers suck, but I'm upgrading everything probably on Black Friday. Should I look for a deal on 5 or 7 speakers? 5.4 or 7.4?
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post #2 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm tthinking I would probably only need bookshelf speakers, since I got the subs.
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post #3 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 08:28 AM
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Advantage?

 

More sales of equipment?

 

I'm intending on stopping/staying at 5.2 however, each speaker will be large, sensitive and highly capable.

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post #4 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 09:07 AM
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I have A 7.2 setup. I don't have a big room however. So I have front highs. I love them. They made my small room sound twice as big. Some people don't notice the effects as much from highs but in my room I did. I'd go for that. With bookshelves. And then keep the 4 subs. I'm jealous

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post #5 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 09:52 AM
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People with 7.1 will say it's better, and people with 5.1 will say it's no big deal.
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post #6 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

People with 7.1 will say it's better, and people with 5.1 will say it's no big deal.

And people who have gone back and forth will say it depends on the room.

If the room can support 7 well-placed speakers, then it does offer increased immersion and spaciousness.

If the room cannot support 7 well-placed speakers, then adding them is probably going to make things worse.

If the room is very large and especially if the setup is such that early reflections don't happen (sidewalls very far away) then surround rear channels are surprisingly beneficial.
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post #7 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Ill probably go 5. I could use my onkyo as rear sounds to see if a upgradeable difference. Will that different sound from my lesser onkyo speakers ruin the rear sounds?
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post #8 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Sutliff View Post

I have A 7.2 setup. I don't have a big room however. So I have front highs. I love them. They made my small room sound twice as big. Some people don't notice the effects as much from highs but in my room I did. I'd go for that. With bookshelves. And then keep the 4 subs. I'm jealous

I might think about that
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post #9 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

And people who have gone back and forth will say it depends on the room.

If the room can support 7 well-placed speakers, then it does offer increased immersion and spaciousness.

If the room cannot support 7 well-placed speakers, then adding them is probably going to make things worse.

If the room is very large and especially if the setup is such that early reflections don't happen (sidewalls very far away) then surround rear channels are surprisingly beneficial.

It doesn't matter if they have gone back and forth a million times and the room is 30' x 30'. It's 100% their subjective opinions and personal preference, not a fact of life.

It's not like the majority of the films' soundtracks are in the surrounds.
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post #10 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

It doesn't matter if they have gone back and forth a million times and the room is 30' x 30'. It's 100% their subjective opinions and personal preference, not a fact of life.

It's not like the majority of the films' soundtracks are in the surrounds.

Its very few, that's why I asked since the majority is 5.1
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post #11 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 12:08 PM
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If you have an extra pair of speakers to test it out do that. See how you like it. And then decide whether it's worth getting a matching set or another pair of speakers

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post #12 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Its very few, that's why I asked since the majority is 5.1

Even when it is 7.1 DTS-HD MA or TrueHD, the amount of info from the surround speakers are nothing compared to the front speakers & subs.

I've listened to the surround speakers. In my experience (no I have not seen every single BD), the info on the R side sounds identical to the R rear and the L side sounds identical to the L rear.

There must be some movies where that is not true.

But bottom line, whether it is 5.1 or 7.1, the majority of the soundtrack is in the front 3 speakers & subs, not surrounds.

But whether it is "BENEFICIAL" or "ADVANTAGEOUS" is still pure personal preference.

People with 7.1 will say it's better, and people with 5.1 will say it's just as good.
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post #13 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Even when it is 7.1 DTS-HD MA or TrueHD, the amount of info from the surround speakers are nothing compared to the front speakers & subs.

I've listened to the surround speakers. In my experience (no I have not seen every single BD), the info on the R side sounds identical to the R rear and the L side sounds identical to the L rear.

There must be some movies where that is not true.

But bottom line, whether it is 5.1 or 7.1, the majority of the soundtrack is in the front 3 speakers & subs, not surrounds.

But whether it is "BENEFICIAL" or "ADVANTAGEOUS" is still pure personal preference.

People with 7.1 will say it's better, and people with 5.1 will say it's just as good.

I was going to try to match all five speakers. Maybe I should try to get the best I can afford toward the front mains. I can use my Onkyo speakers until I can get my other two surrounds. Then, maybe get my rear surrounds. Unless you guys think I should start with matching surrounds too
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post #14 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brad Sutliff View Post

If you have an extra pair of speakers to test it out do that. See how you like it. And then decide whether it's worth getting a matching set or another pair of speakers

I'm going to definitely try that
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post #15 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 01:01 PM
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Let me know how it goes man!

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post #16 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I was going to try to match all five speakers. Maybe I should try to get the best I can afford toward the front mains. I can use my Onkyo speakers until I can get my other two surrounds. Then, maybe get my rear surrounds. Unless you guys think I should start with matching surrounds too

I use 5 identical speakers too. That is "ideal".

But where budget is limited, quality trumps quantity.


Focus on the front 3 + subs. If budget allows, 5 identical quality speakers would be nice.
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post #17 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I will have to go with bookshelfs because of my room and this big 18in sub. Any suggestions in the $300 each price range?
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post #18 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 01:49 PM
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Definitive technology sm45s or 55s and then a seperate center channel such as the pro center 2000 or another model

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post #19 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 01:52 PM
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Can you use a larger bookshelf like the Ascend 340SE? How do you plan to position/mount them? 5 340SEs would be 1444 delivered....and would rock your room even if it's large, but what are the dimensions of your room?

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post #20 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Sutliff View Post

Definitive technology sm45s or 55s and then a seperate center channel such as the pro center 2000 or another model

Ill probably go with all identical speakers and leave out the center channel
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post #21 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 02:02 PM
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Then maybe the sm55s would be best. Or you could go for the Monitor45b from Polk audio. Or their RTia3

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post #22 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Can you use a larger bookshelf like the Ascend 340SE? How do you plan to position/mount them? 5 340SEs would be 1444 delivered....and would rock your room even if it's large, but what are the dimensions of your room?

My room is 12ft wide by 16ft long, with 8ft tall ceilings. I have about a foot on each side of the screen. 15in at most. I have to measure after work. They would be in stands
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post #23 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 03:36 PM
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My room is almost the same. 13x16.5
I have the Ascend 340 for the front 3 speakers and have Ascend 170's for the surrounds and rear. I used to have old onyko's HTIB speakers for the rear and have in the last month replaced those with Ascend 170's. The one thing I did notice right away after replacing the rears was watching a movie seemed to fill the room with sound better.
Just for your information the width of the 340's are 7.5 inches, so you would be able to get them on the side of your screen.
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post #24 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

And people who have gone back and forth will say it depends on the room.

If the room can support 7 well-placed speakers, then it does offer increased immersion and spaciousness.

If the room cannot support 7 well-placed speakers, then adding them is probably going to make things worse.

If the room is very large and especially if the setup is such that early reflections don't happen (sidewalls very far away) then surround rear channels are surprisingly beneficial.

It doesn't matter if they have gone back and forth a million times and the room is 30' x 30'. It's 100% their subjective opinions and personal preference, not a fact of life.

It's not like the majority of the films' soundtracks are in the surrounds.

Who said anything about film?

That's not something I care about.

My comments are directed to reproduction of music.

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post #25 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post

My room is almost the same. 13x16.5
I have the Ascend 340 for the front 3 speakers and have Ascend 170's for the surrounds and rear. I used to have old onyko's HTIB speakers for the rear and have in the last month replaced those with Ascend 170's. The one thing I did notice right away after replacing the rears was watching a movie seemed to fill the room with sound better.
Just for your information the width of the 340's are 7.5 inches, so you would be able to get them on the side of your screen.

These look like they will compliment my 4 subs
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post #26 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Who said anything about film?

That's not something I care about.

My comments are directed to reproduction of music.

The OP said something about film. It's obviously something he cares about. rolleyes.gif
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I'm running a 4 subwoofer setup in my HT, which is only for movies.



Blee0120, there are lots of movies with content in the rear surrounds. Sometimes it is placed there for directionality and sometimes it is placed there to add spaciousness. In addition, for 5.1 movies, you can add PLIIx or DTS Neo processing to add the rear surrounds. They are definitely worth doing if your room and seating can support them. However, if your seating is against the rear wall, you can't get rear speakers "behind" you, in which case there is no benefit.

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post #27 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Who said anything about film?

That's not something I care about.

My comments are directed to reproduction of music.

My comment is the same whether it is music, movies, television, or games.

It's not black and white. It's not about performing the correct surgery or filling the correct medication. There's no mathematical formula that says you need 7 speakers to achieve the CORRECT sound. eek.gif

It's a matter of preference.
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post #28 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

These look like they will compliment my 4 subs
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Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post

Ascend 340... and Ascend 170...

That should work, among many brands.
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post #29 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post

My room is almost the same. 13x16.5
I have the Ascend 340 for the front 3 speakers and have Ascend 170's for the surrounds and rear. I used to have old onyko's HTIB speakers for the rear and have in the last month replaced those with Ascend 170's. The one thing I did notice right away after replacing the rears was watching a movie seemed to fill the room with sound better.
Just for your information the width of the 340's are 7.5 inches, so you would be able to get them on the side of your screen.

These look like they will compliment my 4 subs

Yes, and the 170s will save you some money and still do great as surrounds and also blend in great for multi ch music (I use 170s for surrounds and 200s for rear surrounds, Sierra-1s up front). In your size room I'd think you could go 5 or 7 ch; if you get 5 new speakers you can always use some of what you have now for rear surrounds to see if it makes a difference to you. I like 7 ch in my larger room, but if it were smaller I'd probably just go 5.

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post #30 of 58 Old 10-13-2013, 04:56 PM
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If you have +/-4' behind you main sitting position I'd suggest 7.1.
Identical speakers in all positions is something I've always wanted to do.
I've had good luck with L/R surrounds just ahead of my ears facing to the back(it works well if you place your hands behind your head once in a while).

No regrets
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