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post #1 of 38 Old 10-15-2013, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi guys I am going to finally buy a speaker set up to go with my Sony 55 " inch LED TV. Had some old system which finally died so convinced my wife to buy a new good speaker system to go with our TV. We like to watch movies a lot specially streaming from netflix and streaming from our laptop and then I like to listen to music also a lot, so a system which will serve purpose of excellent sound for movies and music is what we are looking for. As I started my search I never knew it would involve reading so much and deciding from so many fantastic system that are around, so need help from you guys in working through the process. Our budget is around 2000 $ including the receiver. we have a small living room but will be moving to a bigger house soon so will have more room for them in future. I was reading CNEt and they have excellent reviews of the Energy Classic and the Pioneer SP-PK52FS which are very cheap (dont know whether they are as good as they sound on the review though). And then I have heard good reviews about the HSU hybrid and the Klipsch set ups too which are on pricier side. So what system would you guys suggest will be best suiting my budget ( I dont have to spend 2000 $ if I get good quality for cheap). I can also buy separate floor/ bookshelf speaker and pair them with surround and a sub woofer too, if thats a better choice. smile.gif
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post #2 of 38 Old 10-15-2013, 07:53 PM
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I would steer clear of the Energy Classic. The Pioneers would be a lot better. Klipsch is good but they are a wee bit pricey, however there is often room to negotiate those prices if you can bargain. Many electronics chains have Klipsch and Pioneers set up to listen to in store if you want to listen to them, although in store demos aren't the best audition environments. Hsu speakers are good and their subwoofers are killer, but there wouldn't be anywhere to audition them unless you live near Aneheim. I would say if you ldon't need need a loud system, go for the Pioneers. If you like it a bit loud, go for a Hsu setup. If you really like to crank your system, go for Klipsch. I would get a Hsu subwoofer regardless, but only the 12" or 15" subs. As for a receiver, I would go for a mid level ($400 to $500) Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer, Harman/Kardon, or Onkyo, based on whatever feature set appeal to you the most.
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post #3 of 38 Old 10-15-2013, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Well for us instead of how loud they are what is more important is a system which will give us clear voice at low volumes because the current one had we have to increase the volume to hear conversation and then when action sequence came in it was too loud for us so that is frustating so I want a system that takes care of this problem.. will this Pioneer good enough for this.. Also I will not be able listen to any of the system because of my remote location so I will have to rely on expert reviews here for ordering the system..
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post #4 of 38 Old 10-15-2013, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ag82 View Post

Well for us instead of how loud they are what is more important is a system which will give us clear voice at low volumes because the current one had we have to increase the volume to hear conversation and then when action sequence came in it was too loud for us so that is frustating so I want a system that takes care of this problem..

Look into Audyssey Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume, which is available on Denon receivers. It should help with your problem.

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post #5 of 38 Old 10-15-2013, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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OK thats good to know so probably the reciever will be from danon which everybody around here has recommended. But I am still not able to decide on the speaker systems. can anyone else has more inputs or Pioneer would be the best choice ? I have not seen many people recommending or going for this particular one here in other threads I have read so still dubious..
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post #6 of 38 Old 10-15-2013, 09:33 PM
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Pioneer +1.
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post #7 of 38 Old 10-15-2013, 10:39 PM
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I have the pioneer bookshelf speakers, waiting on a sale for the floorstanding units, but i am totally loving them for the price. Sure they aren't perfect, may not be the most dynamic or powerful, but at the price I'm extremely satisfied. Even if you buy the pios and aren't satisfied, at this price you have a great bedroom or garage setup.
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post #8 of 38 Old 10-16-2013, 06:03 AM
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I use this brand ,5.1 setup.
http://www.paradigm.com/products/
Great sound and no issues.
Reasonable prices.
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post #9 of 38 Old 10-16-2013, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wdeydwondrer View Post

I have the pioneer bookshelf speakers, waiting on a sale for the floorstanding units, but i am totally loving them for the price. Sure they aren't perfect, may not be the most dynamic or powerful, but at the price I'm extremely satisfied. Even if you buy the pios and aren't satisfied, at this price you have a great bedroom or garage setup.

Where are you looking for deals on them, I might probably also wait for a good deal to come on these, I am not in a hurry to buy one right now..
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post #10 of 38 Old 10-16-2013, 02:25 PM
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Mainly tigerdirect.com, newegg.com (though they seem to be discontinued there now, lol), frys.com, and bestbuy.com.  There's some other places that pop up if you google the fs52, but from what I've seen, fry's likes to put them on sale a couple times a year and it's been a couple months since the last time now.  Being that the whole old pioneer line just went through a sale cycle, hoping the 22/52 are coming up next for sale price.  The bookshelves are actually still on sale right now at bestbuy.com for 89 for the pair.  Not the BEST price seen for them, but 40 bucks off the pair isn't to bad.

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post #11 of 38 Old 10-16-2013, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Terry Newton View Post

I use this brand ,5.1 setup.
http://www.paradigm.com/products/
Great sound and no issues.
Reasonable prices.

Are you talking about the Cinema 100 CT 5.1 of paradigm ? Are they better than these pioneers, they are certainly double the price..
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post #12 of 38 Old 10-16-2013, 04:50 PM
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AVR: Denon 1713 AVR - $430
Sub: SVS SB1000 - $500
Front L/R: SVS Ultra Bookshelf - $1,000/pair, Salk Surround I - $900/pair, etc.

Start there and save for the center, surrounds and, if your wife lets you, a second sub.

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post #13 of 38 Old 10-16-2013, 05:27 PM
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Will I find La Scala, or better, to displace my La Scala fronts, before I displace my kg1, kg2 & kg3 with Heresy or better?

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post #14 of 38 Old 10-16-2013, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post

AVR: Denon 1713 AVR - $430
Sub: SVS SB1000 - $500
Front L/R: SVS Ultra Bookshelf - $1,000/pair, Salk Surround I - $900/pair, etc.

Start there and save for the center, surrounds and, if your wife lets you, a second sub.

But isnt that you get a better sound if you pair same line of speakers with each other, rather than pairing bookshelf from one company and surround from another and center from another ?
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post #15 of 38 Old 10-16-2013, 07:29 PM
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But isnt that you get a better sound if you pair same line of speakers with each other, rather than pairing bookshelf from one company and surround from another and center from another ?

what he is saying is that you could look at the SVS Ultra bookshelfs or the Salk Surround 1 (they call them surround, but they are bookshelf speakers). however with surrounds while its nice to pair them with speakers of the same brand / line of speakers, you dont have to. I ran my Dynaudio speakers with mission speakers as surrounds until i could afford to buy Dynaudio speakers for surrounds.

i do agree with repete, getting better bookshelf speakers and saving up for surrounds and a center channel, or get the bookshelfs now and later move them to surround duty when you can afford floorstanding speakers.

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post #16 of 38 Old 10-16-2013, 07:35 PM
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But isnt that you get a better sound if you pair same line of speakers with each other, rather than pairing bookshelf from one company and surround from another and center from another ?
You want speakers to be timbre-matched and have like-sized drivers. All of the "5" in a 5.1 system--front left & right, center, rear left & right--should be not just from the same speaker manufacturer but ideally also from the same line of speakers. (Subwoofers needn't be from the same company.) Although, given the light duty the surrounds shoulder it's not as important that important that they match the front L/C/R array.

In my example above I was suggesting that, given your budget constraints, you should start with a 2.1 setup before adding a center and rear surround speakers. The front right/left, center and rear right/left should all be from the same company. Any good bookshelf speaker would work. I suggested Salk because they make a beautiful speaker which you can customize with the veneer of your choice. SVS is a great subwoofer company and you'd be hard-pressed to find a better sub at that price.

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post #17 of 38 Old 10-16-2013, 08:04 PM
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Well for us instead of how loud they are what is more important is a system which will give us clear voice at low volumes because the current one had we have to increase the volume to hear conversation and then when action sequence came in it was too loud for us so that is frustating so I want a system that takes care of this problem.. will this Pioneer good enough for this.. Also I will not be able listen to any of the system because of my remote location so I will have to rely on expert reviews here for ordering the system..

The Pioneer would be good, but I their center speaker doesn't look very powerful with only two 4" woofers. For dialogue intelligibility, the center speaker will be the most important speaker since that is where most dialogue originates in movie sound tracks. A good, powerful, clear center speaker is the Infinity Primus c351. Add to that two of these Infinity Primus p163 bookshelf speakers for front and two of these Infinity Primus p153 for surround left/right speakers. That will be a great, inexpensive setup which will have zero problems with dialogue intelligibility. Add to that a Hsu VTF2 or Rythmik LV12 subwoofer for sharp, powerful, and deep bass. Get a mid level Denon receiver for Audyssey MultiEQ XT. Remember to run Audyssey as many times as it will allow for the best room correction. If you need speaker mounts for the surround speakers, these are the best affordable speaker mounts out there. Get your HDMI cable and speaker wire from monoprice.com, not at a store because electronics stores always have huge markups on cables. Altogether, you will have a nice, full sounding system with excellent dialogue intelligibility for much less than $2k.
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post #18 of 38 Old 10-16-2013, 08:35 PM
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shady, are you suggesting that any center channel with 4" woofers wont be able to deliver dialogue with intelligibility?

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post #19 of 38 Old 10-16-2013, 08:38 PM
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I think it get could overwhelmed more easily by tower speakers. Its dynamic range is going to be pretty limited.
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post #20 of 38 Old 10-16-2013, 08:55 PM
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the reason i bring this up, is that my center channel i have right now, uses 4.33" woofers and i brought it home for a 2-week audition before i bought it because i thought it was too small to be any good, but for the last 2 years that ive been using it I havent had a single issue with dialouge being unintelligable. I sit 8 feet back, and listen on my integra at -15 dbs quite often and havent had any issue with dynamic range or smearing, i use a crossover of 60 hz. I have heard many center channels that are larger then mine from brands that are just as "high-end" and they sound muddy and well... crappy by comparison. Ive heard the X22 with towers in my house and its played just fine. Granted i cannot say for certian that the pioneer center will be up to the task of what Im using, my center channel costs significantly more. i will add that i am upgrading to the matching center, but mostly so i get a little more punch and have speakers from the same line across the front soundstage. I do expect the new center to play louder, but I have not had one complaint about this center channel i have. Just my thoughts.

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post #21 of 38 Old 10-16-2013, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
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the reason i bring this up, is that my center channel i have right now, uses 4.33" woofers and i brought it home for a 2-week audition before i bought it because i thought it was too small to be any good, but for the last 2 years that ive been using it I havent had a single issue with dialouge being unintelligable.

I have Boston and Monitor Audio speakers with 4" woofers, that I use as center channels - I do not have
any problems with them sitting around 9 ft back.

The choice is up to the OP - Infinity is still a nice option

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post #22 of 38 Old 10-16-2013, 09:13 PM
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I don't have a problem with the pios center channel. Both audyssey and my ears tell me the center actually plays louder and lower then the bookshelves. Granted the high end doesn't sound like a horn does, but it's not a horn lol. Dialogue is great on it and ive found myself actually use one of the prologic on stereo sources to get the center playing most the dialogue vs the l/r. For a four inch driver, it's surprisingly solid
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post #23 of 38 Old 10-17-2013, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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The Pioneer would be good, but I their center speaker doesn't look very powerful with only two 4" woofers. For dialogue intelligibility, the center speaker will be the most important speaker since that is where most dialogue originates in movie sound tracks. A good, powerful, clear center speaker is the Infinity Primus c351. Add to that two of these Infinity Primus p163 bookshelf speakers for front and two of these Infinity Primus p153 for surround left/right speakers. That will be a great, inexpensive setup which will have zero problems with dialogue intelligibility. Add to that a Hsu VTF2 or Rythmik LV12 subwoofer for sharp, powerful, and deep bass. Get a mid level Denon receiver for Audyssey MultiEQ XT. Remember to run Audyssey as many times as it will allow for the best room correction. If you need speaker mounts for the surround speakers, these are the best affordable speaker mounts out there. Get your HDMI cable and speaker wire from monoprice.com, not at a store because electronics stores always have huge markups on cables. Altogether, you will have a nice, full sounding system with excellent dialogue intelligibility for much less than $2k.

Ok I got everyones point here. So regarding the bookshelves speakers I have choices which include HB-1 MK2 , SVS ultrabooks, EMP Tek E5Bi Bookshelf and Infinity Primus p163 bookshelf speakers. I know they are from slightly different price range but I wanted to compare and see if the cheaper of these options (which have got good reviews ) stand against the costlier options or not. Also with these bookshelves, most likely I will be pairing them later with the same line for center and/maybe with surround so please also think about these bookshelves and other speakers from their line.. I know subwoofer doesnt need to be of the same line so thats not a problem.
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post #24 of 38 Old 10-17-2013, 10:32 AM
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Objectively you want whatever bookshelves you go with the extend flat below 80Hz since that's what you should be using as a crossover point to the subwoofer. Assuming they all accomplish this--meaning their stated performance graphs are honest/accurate--everything else just comes down to preference. You can judge how you like the looks of a particular speaker by its appearance on the website or in a local shop but you aren't going to be able to make an informed assessment of how they sound to you unless you're able to audition them, preferably with something to compare them to, in person.

If you can't audition them in person and will be buying them direct you could look for a company that has a good (i.e. 30 day) return policy. Sometimes it just comes down to taking a chance. I bought mine based on professional and consumer reviews and haven't had a moment of regret.

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post #25 of 38 Old 10-17-2013, 10:47 AM
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Ok I got everyones point here. So regarding the bookshelves speakers I have choices which include HB-1 MK2 , SVS ultrabooks, EMP Tek E5Bi Bookshelf and Infinity Primus p163 bookshelf speakers. I know they are from slightly different price range but I wanted to compare and see if the cheaper of these options (which have got good reviews ) stand against the costlier options or not. Also with these bookshelves, most likely I will be pairing them later with the same line for center and/maybe with surround so please also think about these bookshelves and other speakers from their line.. I know subwoofer doesnt need to be of the same line so thats not a problem.

I think you should either (a) stick with your budget for a 5.1 setup or (b) if you want to consider the SVS ultrabooks, there are many other speakers at ~$1000 a pair to consider. Probably best to focus your research one way or the other.

You mentioned "Had some old system which finally died" in your first post. Can you tell us what that setup is? What speakers and receiver model? It would help everyone to understand what you could buy in order to get a definite improvement over what you had before.

Next, I'm surprised no one has asked what your room size is. Sub performance is tied to the amount of air in the room. So depending on the size of the room, you might need more or less sub performance. Can you give it's rough dimensions, including any other open areas it might be connected with?

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post #26 of 38 Old 10-17-2013, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I think you should either (a) stick with your budget for a 5.1 setup or (b) if you want to consider the SVS ultrabooks, there are many other speakers at ~$1000 a pair to consider. Probably best to focus your research one way or the other.

You mentioned "Had some old system which finally died" in your first post. Can you tell us what that setup is? What speakers and receiver model? It would help everyone to understand what you could buy in order to get a definite improvement over what you had before.

Next, I'm surprised no one has asked what your room size is. Sub performance is tied to the amount of air in the room. So depending on the size of the room, you might need more or less sub performance. Can you give it's rough dimensions, including any other open areas it might be connected with?

Well my old system was a Logitech system didnt had any receiver or anything just two speakers and a woofer, so thats why I didnt even bother to mention the details of it, so anything I buy would be a step up.

Well initially I was looking for 5.1 system but as I said this will be my first system so I can also take time to build my system by buying bookshelves, center speaker and subwoofer separately if that gives an advantage of getting best the sounding system at the best price.

Regarding my room size currently it is small rectangle room 10 x 12 in size which opens into our kitchen area but hopefully in the coming months we will be moving to a bigger house with a bigger room but I am sure it will not be a huge room. So what I was thinking is that buy a decent enough subwoofer for now and maybe if the space is big then add another subwoofer if this will not be enough.
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post #27 of 38 Old 10-17-2013, 11:47 AM
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In that case, I think you could stick to speakers in that ~$300 per pair for bookshelves range and then their matching center for 5.0, with a $500-$600 sub and the rest on a receiver. They would be an incredible improvement over the Logitech system, and still a good bump over over Energy Takes or Pioneers. So HSU HB-1s, EMP Tek E5Bi, Arx A1b, Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 SE, Monitor Audio Bronze--there's lots of good choices there smile.gif

For subs, either the SVS PB-1000 or Rythmik LV12R, or the HSU VTF-2 MK4 if you go with the HSU speakers (package deal in their Hybrid 2 set). Ascend will give you a small discount on the LV12R if you go with their speakers. SVS has the advantage of a 1 year trade up policy should you end up with a house with a huge room.
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post #28 of 38 Old 10-17-2013, 11:55 AM
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The very basics regarding subwoofers: Most will be 10" or 12", but you'll also see them at 8", 15" and occasionally even 18". The more space you have the larger driver you need to fill it with. They come in either sealed or ported boxes. Sealed boxes are smaller and often offer a tighter sound while ported boxes are usually significantly larger and tend to do a better job of shaking stuff off tables. Lastly, two do a better job than one of offering smooth, level bass throughout your room.
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post #29 of 38 Old 10-17-2013, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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In that case, I think you could stick to speakers in that ~$300 per pair for bookshelves range and then their matching center for 5.0, with a $500-$600 sub and the rest on a receiver. They would be an incredible improvement over the Logitech system, and still a good bump over over Energy Takes or Pioneers. So HSU HB-1s, EMP Tek E5Bi, Arx A1b, Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 SE, Monitor Audio Bronze--there's lots of good choices there smile.gif

For subs, either the SVS PB-1000 or Rythmik LV12R, or the HSU VTF-2 MK4 if you go with the HSU speakers (package deal in their Hybrid 2 set). Ascend will give you a small discount on the LV12R if you go with their speakers. SVS has the advantage of a 1 year trade up policy should you end up with a house with a huge room.

I am leaning towards the HSU hybrid 2 package deal. It looks like a good deal because I think I will be buying there sub anyways and it alone will cover the cost of the whole package. I just hope the speakers are as good as the sub is......
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post #30 of 38 Old 10-17-2013, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post

The very basics regarding subwoofers: Most will be 10" or 12", but you'll also see them at 8", 15" and occasionally even 18". The more space you have the larger driver you need to fill it with. They come in either sealed or ported boxes. Sealed boxes are significantly smaller and often offer a tighter sound while ported boxes are significantly larger and tend to do a better job of shaking stuff off tables. Lastly, two do a better job than one of offering smooth, level bass throughout your room.

Thanks a lot for that info.. I like this forum just because of people like you who give such good information to newbie like me.. Appreciated.. smile.gif
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