need some help for an audiophile newbie... - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 Old 10-16-2013, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Apokai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hey guys,

Yes. An OTHER newbie on the forum. I spent 2 days searching and reading, trying to do my duty. And guess what? Totally lost.

1st - My receiver blew up (a cheap one, I don't even dare to tell what it was). So, I need a new one.

2nd - Over all the advices I received and read, most people told me to choose a speaker set based on my personal appreciation of the quality of the music. That's logical, That's true.

2 years ago, I went to a listening room at FutureShop and was blown away by Klipsch RF82 (800). Again, a month ago, I went back, asked the guy to run all the speakers, closed my eyes and listen. They was Martin Logan, Polk and Klipsch RF62 and RF82. Again, I was blown away by them.

Here's my problem. I need a new receiver NOW.

Klipsch RF82 are asking for a 150W RMS. Most receiver got around 65 to 90W (for a price range of 200 to 400$). I found that people suggest that the receiver and speaker run around the same W per channel. So, in order to buy the Klipsch eventually, I found that a 90W per channel receiver might not be enough to drive them.

Yesterday, the Sony STR-DN1040 went at a special price tag of 499$. It has a 165W per channel so I said "Bingo, that's the one".

But Klipsch's got 2 pairs of connector (for preouts as I understood). Receiver with Preouts are more the double of my budget. So, is the SONY enough to power them? And what happens if I hook it up with, i.e. Energy Classic II which is a 100W RMS max. Is it too powerful then?

But again, logically speaking, I was blown out at FutureShop with prob. a very standard receiver, but connected with preouts (as the vendor was switching speakers set with a red push button - So again, logically, should be a performance lost here).

Yeah, I saw your other threads. Emotiva amps... W-O-W. That is so great. XPA-2, perfect for stereo. My Klipsh would run like a Ferrari on a german highway, I know. But, sorry guys, I don't have that kind of money. I would like to though, but don't have. A got a cheap receiver, blown away that I have to replace and trying to get a decent (possible?) one to eventually have Klipsch RF82 on it.

Other solution, go to a specialized music store, not some BestBuy store. But I know it would be like driving a lamborghini and going back after on Jetta. I would never be satisfied again.

A friend told me to look for used stuff. Too scared to be fooled by experience users.

My head is spinning off actually. So much questions.

So, I will take any advices. Most important for now, what about the SONY 1040 for the future use of Klipsch RF-82? Budget wise, it is around 500$ for the receiver and around 1K$ for Klipsch (will wait for boxing day, they usually go as 499$ each).

Thx!
Apokai is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 10-16-2013, 09:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 2,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 336
Any decent AVR will have enough power (for most people in most normal size rooms). Buy the one that has the features you want at a price you like.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Harman Kardon AVR 1600
PS3, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Qattron
Kini62 is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 10-16-2013, 09:38 AM
Senior Member
 
Audiophile2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Speakers themselves don't have "watts", they only have power recommendations based on how much power they can take. So there is no need to find an amp with the maximum watts a speaker can take. As for your speaker choice, if you like the Klipsch sound you can save a lot of money by going with Bic products. They sound very similar and are based on the same design principles. http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/brand/index.cfm?bid=67
Audiophile2k is offline  
post #4 of 14 Old 10-16-2013, 09:54 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
afrogt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 23,164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Liked: 389
Quote:
But Klipsch's got 2 pairs of connector (for preouts as I understood). Receiver with Preouts are more the double of my budget. So, is the SONY enough to power them? And what happens if I hook it up with, i.e. Energy Classic II which is a 100W RMS max. Is it too powerful then?

The two sets of speakers terminals are for biamping or biwiring which is not necessary at all. In most cases it has dubious value. Just use one set of terminals and leave the connecting brackets in place.

doubt you'll even need to turn up the volume loud enough to push 165W channel. Also doubt that Sony receiver puts out 165W when driving 5-7 speakers.

Were you planning to use the Take Classics as main or surround speakers?

Afro GT
afrogt is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 10-16-2013, 09:57 AM
Advanced Member
 
simp1yamazn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 608
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apokai View Post

Klipsch RF82 are asking for a 150W RMS. Most receiver got around 65 to 90W (for a price range of 200 to 400$). I found that people suggest that the receiver and speaker run around the same W per channel. So, in order to buy the Klipsch eventually, I found that a 90W per channel receiver might not be enough to drive them.

Yesterday, the Sony STR-DN1040 went at a special price tag of 499$. It has a 165W per channel so I said "Bingo, that's the one".

No one should recommend you buy a receiver with the same watts that the speakers list on their spec sheets. It won't hurt, but realistically speaking, those number have little to no value. The watt ratings, as previously mentioned, just tell you how much sustained power they can handle. During TV watching, most will not use more than 1 watt of power. Considering how efficient Klipsch speakers are, there is no reason to get hung up on how much power your receiver has.

For power, to get a very small increase in volume (3 db which is just about where people start to be able to discern a small difference in volume) require you double the power. the most powerful receivers on the market will give you almost nothing over an entry level receiver in terms of volume potential. That means going from your 90w receiver to your 160w receiver will give you less than 3db difference. Also keep in mind that power ratings for receivers are all overblown anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apokai View Post

But Klipsch's got 2 pairs of connector (for preouts as I understood). Receiver with Preouts are more the double of my budget. So, is the SONY enough to power them? And what happens if I hook it up with, i.e. Energy Classic II which is a 100W RMS max. Is it too powerful then?

But again, logically speaking, I was blown out at FutureShop with prob. a very standard receiver, but connected with preouts (as the vendor was switching speakers set with a red push button - So again, logically, should be a performance lost here).

The klipsch speakers do not have inputs for use with pre-outs from a receiver. They have two sets of binding posts for passive bi-amping (which is really nothing more than a waste of speaker wire). if you end up getting the klipsch, just use appropriate speaker wire to one set of binding posts and be done with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apokai View Post

Yeah, I saw your other threads. Emotiva amps... W-O-W. That is so great. XPA-2, perfect for stereo. My Klipsh would run like a Ferrari on a german highway, I know. But, sorry guys, I don't have that kind of money. I would like to though, but don't have. A got a cheap receiver, blown away that I have to replace and trying to get a decent (possible?) one to eventually have Klipsch RF82 on it.

Again, power will not be an issue especially considering the speakers you are considering. A mid-level receiver will likely be able to create enough volume to make your ears scream for mercy.

The big thing you should (in my opinion) be looking at when considering a receiver is which room correction it comes with. People's opinions vary, but in my personal experience Audyssey has given me the best results.
simp1yamazn is online now  
post #6 of 14 Old 10-16-2013, 10:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
psgcdn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Prov. of Quebec, Canada
Posts: 4,462
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 199
Good advice all around.

Whatever you do, don't buy your speaker wire from Futureshop! Try monoprice in the US, or infinitecables.com or http://www.cablesonsale.ca in Canada.

Receivers tend to be a lot cheaper in the US than in Canada as well, BTW. I usually order them from the US.

Remember, it's called "AV Science"!

My HT
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Peter

psgcdn is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 10-16-2013, 10:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 6,611
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Liked: 780
As to your question about using your Takes in the meantime, with whatever receiver you get, they'll be fine as long as you don't turn the volume up so much as to overdrive the amp into distortion and potentially damage your speakers. Just use some common sense and you'll be fine with any speakers.

lovinthehd is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 10-16-2013, 11:05 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 7,590
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 293 Post(s)
Liked: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apokai View Post

Hey guys,

Yes. An OTHER newbie on the forum. I spent 2 days searching and reading, trying to do my duty. And guess what? Totally lost.

1st - My receiver blew up (a cheap one, I don't even dare to tell what it was). So, I need a new one.

2nd - Over all the advices I received and read, most people told me to choose a speaker set based on my personal appreciation of the quality of the music. That's logical, That's true.

2 years ago, I went to a listening room at FutureShop and was blown away by Klipsch RF82 (800). Again, a month ago, I went back, asked the guy to run all the speakers, closed my eyes and listen. They was Martin Logan, Polk and Klipsch RF62 and RF82. Again, I was blown away by them.

Here's my problem. I need a new receiver NOW.

Klipsch RF82 are asking for a 150W RMS. Most receiver got around 65 to 90W (for a price range of 200 to 400$). I found that people suggest that the receiver and speaker run around the same W per channel. So, in order to buy the Klipsch eventually, I found that a 90W per channel receiver might not be enough to drive them.

Yesterday, the Sony STR-DN1040 went at a special price tag of 499$. It has a 165W per channel so I said "Bingo, that's the one".

But Klipsch's got 2 pairs of connector (for preouts as I understood). Receiver with Preouts are more the double of my budget. So, is the SONY enough to power them? And what happens if I hook it up with, i.e. Energy Classic II which is a 100W RMS max. Is it too powerful then?

But again, logically speaking, I was blown out at FutureShop with prob. a very standard receiver, but connected with preouts (as the vendor was switching speakers set with a red push button - So again, logically, should be a performance lost here).

Yeah, I saw your other threads. Emotiva amps... W-O-W. That is so great. XPA-2, perfect for stereo. My Klipsh would run like a Ferrari on a german highway, I know. But, sorry guys, I don't have that kind of money. I would like to though, but don't have. A got a cheap receiver, blown away that I have to replace and trying to get a decent (possible?) one to eventually have Klipsch RF82 on it.

Other solution, go to a specialized music store, not some BestBuy store. But I know it would be like driving a lamborghini and going back after on Jetta. I would never be satisfied again.

A friend told me to look for used stuff. Too scared to be fooled by experience users.

My head is spinning off actually. So much questions.

So, I will take any advices. Most important for now, what about the SONY 1040 for the future use of Klipsch RF-82? Budget wise, it is around 500$ for the receiver and around 1K$ for Klipsch (will wait for boxing day, they usually go as 499$ each).

Thx!

That AVR has 100 watts per channel with 2 channels driven, not 165. 100 watts should be fine with the Klipsch speakers. If you would like speaker pricing, give us a call.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Brands we sell: 
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 
Call for B-stock projectors
Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI, Falcon & many more.
RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Technology, MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech.
AV Science Sales 5 is online now  
post #9 of 14 Old 10-18-2013, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Apokai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile2k View Post

Speakers themselves don't have "watts", they only have power recommendations based on how much power they can take. So there is no need to find an amp with the maximum watts a speaker can take. As for your speaker choice, if you like the Klipsch sound you can save a lot of money by going with Bic products. They sound very similar and are based on the same design principles. http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/brand/index.cfm?bid=67

Thx for the advice. Actually, my Klipsch RF82 are at 499$ (around 40% off) which is the same price (Until October 24).
Apokai is offline  
post #10 of 14 Old 10-18-2013, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Apokai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

The two sets of speakers terminals are for biamping or biwiring which is not necessary at all. In most cases it has dubious value. Just use one set of terminals and leave the connecting brackets in place.

doubt you'll even need to turn up the volume loud enough to push 165W channel. Also doubt that Sony receiver puts out 165W when driving 5-7 speakers.

Were you planning to use the Take Classics as main or surround speakers?

Thx, good to know.

The Classics are mainly for movies. My Klipsch will be for music (main stereo).
Apokai is offline  
post #11 of 14 Old 10-18-2013, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Apokai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by simp1yamazn View Post

No one should recommend you buy a receiver with the same watts that the speakers list on their spec sheets. It won't hurt, but realistically speaking, those number have little to no value. The watt ratings, as previously mentioned, just tell you how much sustained power they can handle. During TV watching, most will not use more than 1 watt of power. Considering how efficient Klipsch speakers are, there is no reason to get hung up on how much power your receiver has.

For power, to get a very small increase in volume (3 db which is just about where people start to be able to discern a small difference in volume) require you double the power. the most powerful receivers on the market will give you almost nothing over an entry level receiver in terms of volume potential. That means going from your 90w receiver to your 160w receiver will give you less than 3db difference. Also keep in mind that power ratings for receivers are all overblown anyway.

Understood, crystal clear. Thx!
Quote:
Originally Posted by simp1yamazn View Post

The klipsch speakers do not have inputs for use with pre-outs from a receiver. They have two sets of binding posts for passive bi-amping (which is really nothing more than a waste of speaker wire). if you end up getting the klipsch, just use appropriate speaker wire to one set of binding posts and be done with it.

Except for the 12, 14, 16 wire gauge, is there really a quality in the wire? I'm not talking about more than 25 feets of cable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by simp1yamazn View Post

Again, power will not be an issue especially considering the speakers you are considering. A mid-level receiver will likely be able to create enough volume to make your ears scream for mercy.

So, I should select an AVr based on the sound quality and features?

Quote:
Originally Posted by simp1yamazn View Post

The big thing you should (in my opinion) be looking at when considering a receiver is which room correction it comes with. People's opinions vary, but in my personal experience Audyssey has given me the best results.

I also read that there's good mobile apps to evaluate (or verify the automatic setup).
Apokai is offline  
post #12 of 14 Old 10-18-2013, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Apokai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Klipsch are currently on sale now (Which I though would be more in boxing days...). Anyway, as an entry level, a SONY HTR-DN1040 (499$ CND) + Klipsch (399$ CND each), I think it is pretty reasonable, no? Any final advices before I bought them? (I still have a 30 days for returns... )

Anyway. MANY thk for your help and quick advices on this. For an other newbie... wink.gif

F.
Apokai is offline  
post #13 of 14 Old 10-18-2013, 01:58 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,742
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 238 Post(s)
Liked: 767
Seems like a good setup, especially given Canadian prices on audio equipment smile.gif

Your questions are answered:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

HT: Energy RC-50, RC-LCR, Veritas VS Surrounds | Dual CHT SS 18.1s | Denon AVR-888 | modified Dayton SA1000 | Antimode 8033C
Desktop: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | HK 3390
Headphone & Portable HE-400 | K612 Pro | HP150 | DX50 | E12
cel4145 is online now  
post #14 of 14 Old 10-18-2013, 03:34 PM
Senior Member
 
Audiophile2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Don't worry about the wiring...it will all sound the same. Same for the amp stage on receivers. Where they will differ is in the preamp stage processing for the room correction and setup. The general consensus is that Audyssey does the best job, but they are all fairly competent and depending on your taste you might prefer one of the others. The Yamaha system seems to roll of the high end a little more than the others, and I've heard the Pioneer has a few of its own quirks. I haven't seen many on the forums comment on DCAC (Digital Cinema Auto Calibration) that the Sony uses, but I have read a couple of online reviews that have said it does a good job with setup and equalization.
Audiophile2k is offline  
Reply Speakers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off