Dialogue in all movies is muffled. How to fix it? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 10-18-2013, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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So this is my setup.

Center speaker: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00009WBYL/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Left/Right Speakers: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00012F7CI/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Receiver (the receiver that I got in this HTIB, i don't use these speakers anymore): http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004VK0IPC/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I've checked the connections and they're all tight and everything. I've also tried just turning up the center speaker's volume quite a bit and while it does help, I can tell it's very muffled compared to what it should be.

Is there anything I can do to fix this? I'm pretty new to all this speaker settings stuff. =S
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post #2 of 30 Old 10-18-2013, 06:26 PM
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Is it sitting inside a tv cabinet?  I have mine in there on top of the dvd player and I was having some issues until I pulled it out as far as I could.

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post #3 of 30 Old 10-18-2013, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Nope. None of the speakers are in any cabinets or anything. =(
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post #4 of 30 Old 10-18-2013, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremytodd1 View Post

Nope. None of the speakers are in any cabinets or anything. =(

Where are the speakers? Do you have a pic of your setup? Did you use the speaker setup in the receiver (Audyssey MultEQ)?

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post #5 of 30 Old 10-18-2013, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is an image. Behind the projector screen is a fabric wall (very thing fabric) with the speakers right behind the fabric.

I have also tried pulling out the center speaker so it is out forward more and it made no difference with the dialogue.



EDIT: Oh, and also since then I have carpeted that room and put some stuff up on the walls, so it's not just brick anymore.
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post #6 of 30 Old 10-18-2013, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremytodd1 View Post


Is there anything I can do to fix this?
Did you run the AVR Audyssey room response correction ?

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post #7 of 30 Old 10-18-2013, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh yeah, skipped over that part from the previous post.

Yes, I did run the Audyssey program thing on the receiver. I used the little mic that came with the surround sound set. Still muffled.

Do I need to change any settings on the receiver myself or anything like that?
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post #8 of 30 Old 10-18-2013, 08:38 PM
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Is your screen acoustically transparent? Why do you put them behind another layer of fabric? Did you pull the speaker out in front of the screen when you say you moved it?

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #9 of 30 Old 10-18-2013, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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The screen is not acoustically transparent, but yeah when I moved the speaker it was in front of the screen and it sounded exactly the same as when its behind the fabric.

And as far as the wall goes, I like the hidden look that new fabric gives me. I like that its only the screen that you see.
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post #10 of 30 Old 10-18-2013, 08:52 PM
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Well if it sounded exactly the same it sounds like it is an acoustically transparent screen wink.gif

What exactly are you comparing it to when you say the sound is muffled? Did you try swapping the center speaker with another speaker?

What crossover for the center did your avr assign? Did you change it?

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #11 of 30 Old 10-18-2013, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Comparing it to my brothers setup, and he has th same speakers. I bought mine because I loved how his sounded actually.

But yeah, no idea what you mean for crossover... Lol
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post #12 of 30 Old 10-18-2013, 09:27 PM
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You can try two things - increase level of center speaker 2 dB up, or reduce input trim level for disk player 3-6 dB down. Second change helps specifically when Audyssey is engaged.
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post #13 of 30 Old 10-18-2013, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremytodd1 View Post

Comparing it to my brothers setup, and he has th same speakers. I bought mine because I loved how his sounded actually.

But yeah, no idea what you mean for crossover... Lol

Room has a great affect and so can your speakers' setup. The crossover is a frequency point set where your center crosses over to your sub....do you have a sub? You should be able to go into the setup menu and find the speaker setup for crossover fairly easily....check your manual.

Another thought, is that center on the floor? It really should be at ear level or at least angled up towards your ears.

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post #14 of 30 Old 10-18-2013, 10:26 PM
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lovinthehd, I'm pretty sure from his picture that his center is on the floor, just behind a black piece of cloth, not the screen itself.  W/out a model number on the screen, I doubt we could guess if it was transparent or not

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post #15 of 30 Old 10-18-2013, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdeydwondrer View Post

lovinthehd, I'm pretty sure from his picture that his center is on the floor, just behind a black piece of cloth, not the screen itself.  W/out a model number on the screen, I doubt we could guess if it was transparent or not

Well, that's not a picture of the speakers really so hard to tell so I ask rather than assume...

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #16 of 30 Old 10-18-2013, 11:31 PM
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Put in a two-channel CD (say: a song) and see if the problem with voices goes away.

Try putting your center in "Phantom" mode (so that it's not used and dialog is moved to the L/R speakers) and see what that does.

I've had a couple of setups where dialog was dramatically improved by *not* using the center speaker.

It's easy to try (might want to turn off audessy at first, to remove adjustments based on center-speaker being there)
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post #17 of 30 Old 10-19-2013, 12:52 AM
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I would start by not only raising the level of the center by 2-3db, but using your EQ to cut mid bass frequencies, which can often be described as "muddy." Cut 3-4db at ~250hz (from your center channel only) and also 3-4db at ~500hz. These are pretty extreme cuts and it should show you pretty quick if frequency is your issue. Often small or cheap speakers sound terrible and boomy in these ranges, and doing some cuts cleans them up quite a bit.

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post #18 of 30 Old 10-19-2013, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post

I would start by not only raising the level of the center by 2-3db, but using your EQ to cut mid bass frequencies, which can often be described as "muddy." Cut 3-4db at ~250hz (from your center channel only) and also 3-4db at ~500hz.
A midbass cut may be warranted, but midbass is from 80-160Hz. A 500Hz cut would be counter-productive, as that's the center frequency for the human voice.
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The screen is not acoustically transparent, but yeah when I moved the speaker it was in front of the screen and it sounded exactly the same as when its behind the fabric
That's not right. Above roughly 1kHz a screen that's not acoustically transparent will have a major attenuating effect, and the higher the frequency the more the attenuation. The only way you wouldn't notice a major difference is if there was little high frequency content coming from the center to begin with.

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post #19 of 30 Old 10-19-2013, 08:52 AM
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Sometimes, Bill, I think you're contrary just for contrarys sake while the others of us are trying to help the OP. While my terminology may not be to your liking, anyone who has ever mixed in a good room through good monitors can attest to the dogfight happening at 300-600hz between human voice, guitar, bass guitar, and nearly any other kind of instrumentation. If you add 8 foot ceilings into that mudfest, like many folks unfortunately have, good luck.

Human voices cover SO much ground, frequency wise, by cutting 500 a couple clicks you really aren't doing much to its amplitude (plus, you may have noticed that I also advised to raise the center level to counteract any loss in amplitude). Those of us who have mixed an isolated vocal track and swept a parametric EQ through it can attest to a human voice being affected from everything down to ~50hz and up to (excluding p's and s's) about 6-7khz. I agree with you that the meat is around 500hz, but as I understand the OPs question, he has too much meat, and I assure you that cutting there will not make a voice magically disappear.

For what it's worth though, I would have advised 450hz if that was a more common band on most EQ's, but I don't think it is.
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post #20 of 30 Old 10-19-2013, 09:14 AM
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You can adjust Audessy EQ?  Thought you had to switch it to the manual curve to do that?

 

Why do we keep bringing up the screen though?  His pic is suggests the center is on the floor behind that black cloth, not the screen.  Maybe OP can clarify that a bit more????

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post #21 of 30 Old 10-19-2013, 02:53 PM
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Have you tried raising the center at an angle? I don't think there is anything you can do to make it sound better if you have it close to the ground...

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post #22 of 30 Old 10-19-2013, 03:14 PM
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Definitely start with speaker position - it should be as close to ear level as possible, and pointed to ear level if not already there. Second, as some of the posts are getting at, you probably have some mid bass ringing - the increased amplitude masks voice-range frequencies, and the extended decay time can smear details which may be present, especially in male voices. EQ is useful here, but I would start with bass trapping and try some absorption on the rear wall (4" thick).

If you don't have a sub, get one. If you're using one already, adjust the crossover (for just the center channel if possible, but globally is okay too) up to 100 or 120, or maybe even higher. If the sub is well positioned for tight bass at your listening position, it will do a better job than the center and you probably won't be able to hear the difference in terms of position/localization.

Any time you make changes, run Audyssey again.
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post #23 of 30 Old 10-19-2013, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry about the late reply guys.been pretty busy today.

But ok.im trying to go through some settings on my receiver and it's asking me if I want to set my fronts and centers to "full band" or anywhere from 40hz all the way up to 200hz.

Any idea what I should set those to?

And also, it's asking the same question about the sides and surrounds. Those speakers are just the ones that came in the package in the OP, so they're nothing special. Anyone know what Hz to put those at?
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post #24 of 30 Old 10-19-2013, 09:31 PM
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Set the speakers to small and cross everything at 80 or 100 Hz. Make sure the center speaker is 2-3 ft off the ground and angled toward the ear. Also, if nothing else works, lower the trim on the mains 2-3 db and leave the center as Auddysee set it.

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post #25 of 30 Old 10-19-2013, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremytodd1 View Post

Sorry about the late reply guys.been pretty busy today.

But ok.im trying to go through some settings on my receiver and it's asking me if I want to set my fronts and centers to "full band" or anywhere from 40hz all the way up to 200hz.

Any idea what I should set those to?

And also, it's asking the same question about the sides and surrounds. Those speakers are just the ones that came in the package in the OP, so they're nothing special. Anyone know what Hz to put those at?
Do you have a subwoofer?

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post #26 of 30 Old 10-19-2013, 09:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes I do have a subwoofer.
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post #27 of 30 Old 10-19-2013, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremytodd1 View Post

Yes I do have a subwoofer.
What sub is it?

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post #28 of 30 Old 10-19-2013, 10:16 PM - Thread Starter
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What sub is it?

It's the same sub that's in that onkyo pack in the OP.

The model is the Onkyo SKW-770
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post #29 of 30 Old 10-19-2013, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jeremytodd1 View Post

It's the same sub that's in that onkyo pack in the OP.

The model is the Onkyo SKW-770
That's what I was afraid of. eek.gif

In that case, here is my suggestion:

Remove that sub from the system, (at least until you can replace it with a sub worthy of use in a real HT system.)
Run the Audyssey 2EQ in your receiver. It should set the front L/R speakers to "Large." Leave them there. It might set the CC to "Large". Reset it to "Small" and set an 80 Hz crossover on it. Assuming you're also using the surrounds from the HTiB package, Audyssey should set the surrounds to "Small", but I can't predict what it will set the crossovers to. Whatever it sets them to, don't lower them. You can raise them if you like, but don't lower them.

Alternatively, you can leave the HTiB sub in they system. Then run Audyssey. It should still set the front L/R to Large. That's fine, leave them there. Beyond that, follow the suggestions above for the CC and surrounds.

This will be the most efficient use of the resources in your system.

Craig

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post #30 of 30 Old 10-20-2013, 02:20 AM
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